ESPN College BK Nation's 50 in 50

[77ncaachamps]

50 most successful college bk programs in the last 50 years.

Someone do the math and figure out where MU is at. I'm feeling lazy.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation

Here's a little taste: Weber State comes in at #39. Florida is #40.

[slack00]

If I had to guess, I'd say we land somewhere in the 15-20 area.

A National Championship, a few final fours, a few conference titles, only 6 losing seasons in 50 years, a few All-Americans, recent success, no forfeited or vacated wins.

Since it goes back to 1962, UCLA has to be in the top spot.  Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana all likely follow in some order.

Ohio State, Michigan State, Arizona, Georgetown, Syracuse probably in the next level. 

Maybe schools like UNLV, Villanova, Michigan, Illinois, Oklahoma, Purdue, UConn, Memphis, Cincy ahead of us.  I'm sure I'm forgetting a few obvious ones.

[Dawson Rental]

At number 45....... DePaul (ranked as the 10th best team of the '80s) hasn't gained points in any season since 2005, just two NCAA tournament appearances in the past 20 seasons.

[Benny B]

Without counting the bonus points for the independent years where MU finished higher than two other major conference teams, I'm coming up with 296 points.  The 70's account for roughly half of those points, however.

My guess is that MU is hovering right around #11 overall.

[swoopem]

I like that they're doing the starting line up from the past 50 years. What would be your guys' starting 5? Mine is

PG- Butch Lee
SG- D Wade
SF- Bo Ellis
PF- Jim Chones
C- Mo Lucas

If we're going to be sticklers on position I would have Doc Rivers at the 3, and Bo at the 4.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Looking at number of weeks ranked (AP) in the last 50 years...MU is:

• 14th in the Top 25
• 12th in the Top 10
• 15th in the Top 5

# of Seasons ranked by school -- MU falls out as: 

• 20th in the Top 25
• 17th in the Top 10
• 25th in the Top 5

http://statsheet.com/mcb/rankings/report_most_in_the_top/1962-1963

[GGGG]

I like that they're doing the starting line up from the past 50 years. What would be your guys' starting 5? Mine is

PG- Butch Lee
SG- D Wade
SF- Bo Ellis
PF- Jim Chones
C- Mo Lucas

If we're going to be sticklers on position I would have Doc Rivers at the 3, and Bo at the 4.

I think you would need to have Earl Tatum ahead of Doc Rivers wouldn't you?

[augoman]

I think you would need to have Earl Tatum ahead of Doc Rivers wouldn't you?

I'm with you Sultan, and probably George Thompson and Dean Meminger ahead of DWade and Butch.

[BrewCity83]

I'm with you Sultan, and probably George Thompson and Dean Meminger ahead of DWade and Butch.

I like Thompson and Meminger, but not ahead of DWade.

[augoman]

certainly not the Wade of today, but I would the Wade of MU days.

[swoopem]

Yeah I would for sure have Meminger on that list instead of Lee, but when I originally created it I was thinking of guys from 1972 and on (40 years rather than 50). My bad, mental error

[Aughnanure]

certainly not the Wade of today, but I would the Wade of MU days.

No. Wade will go down as the greatest Marquette player of all-time. He already is. You can try to nitpick all you want because of how long he played for us. You can try, but no one is leaving him off the list of the top 5.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Calling Pudner (Bama)...if he wasn't so damn busy electing Presidents...from his book it is Bo, George, DW3, Butch and Dean.  I don't know where Jae would fit in statistically but I assume high. 

Chones would be up there but he left early let's face it.  My list from pure talent and impact is Bo, DW3, George, Mo and Dean.  Bo was a four year starter with two F2's and a NC.  George carried Al into his glory years. Mo may have been the best physical talent ever at MU.  It is heresy, but Butch was not all that gifted naturally but he could use his body so well.  Dean was the Baryshnikov.  No one had seen that quickness before.  I am very tempted to put Jae on the list over Butch.

[4everwarriors]

Nah, Butch was far better. FF MVP, Olympian, 1st round pick, DeWitt Clinton, etc. Remember seein' Butch run in a sweatsuit during hot, humid summer days up and down the street from the Old Gym on 16th to the Ave., sweatin' like a pig.

[Sharpie]

Don't really care about all of this. I just hope someone can help me find where I can get my hands on some cheap Louis Vuitton bags.

[Wade for President]

Don't really care about all of this. I just hope someone can help me find where I can get my hands on some cheap Louis Vuitton bags.

+1,000,000!!!

Just awesome.

[GGGG]

Nah, Butch was far better. FF MVP, Olympian, 1st round pick, DeWitt Clinton, etc. Remember seein' Butch run in a sweatsuit during hot, humid summer days up and down the street from the Old Gym on 16th to the Ave., sweatin' like a pig.

DWade was on a FF team, an Olympian (who actually won a medal), a first round pick, and he has been a far better player in the NBA than Lee was.

But I would not have Meminger ahead of Lee.

[Lennys Tap]

Dean Meminger was (by far) MU's best point guard of all time. Butch played the 2. My all time MU team:
PG - Meminger
SG - Wade
SF - Thompson
PF - Lucas
C  - Chones

Bench : Bo, Butch, Tatum, T Miller and Whitehead.

[RJax55]

DWade was on a FF team, an Olympian (who actually won a medal), a first round pick, and he has been a far better player in the NBA than Lee was.

Dwade actually has two Olympic medals, bronze in '04 and gold in '08.

And, he is not just a far better NBA player than Lee... Honestly, there's no comparison between the two:

Wade is an 8-time All-Star, (2) NBA first-teams, (3) NBA second-teams, (2) NBA third-teams, an NBA scoring champion (2009), Finals MVP and 2-time NBA champion.

He is one of the NBA's best 50 players of all-time.

[Aughnanure]

How does Murray State rank ahead of ND, Oklahoma, Gonzaga, Xavier, Houston? What crapty point system are they using?

[Bocephys]

How does Murray State rank ahead of ND, Oklahoma, Gonzaga, Xavier, Houston? What crapty point system are they using?

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62654/introducing-the-50-in-50-series

[The Equalizer]

How does Murray State rank ahead of ND, Oklahoma, Gonzaga, Xavier, Houston? What crapty point system are they using?

The scale gives a lot of weight to conference performance.
 
5 points for a conference title
3 points for a conference tournament title

Over the past 50 years:
Murray State has 22 conference titles and 14 conference tournament titles.

Comparing:

Xavier has 17 conference titles and 10 tournament championships. 
Gonzaga has 15 conference titles and 11 tournament championships
Oklahoma has 7 conference titles and 7 championships
Houston has 3 conference titles and 6 tournament championships
Notre Dame has no conference titles, and 1 tournament championship

BTW, MU has just 1 of each.

[Benny B]

But MU also has only a handful of losing seasons in the last 50 years, and a bunch of .800 or better seasons.

And MU will get the +5 & +3 credit for each of the years it finished ahead in the polls of two other major conference champions & conference tournament champions as an independent.  The 70s alone might be good enough for the equivalent of 8 "conference championships" and "conference tournament" titles in the point system.

[The Equalizer]

Without counting the bonus points for the independent years where MU finished higher than two other major conference teams, I'm coming up with 296 points.  The 70's account for roughly half of those points, however.

My guess is that MU is hovering right around #11 overall.

I'm coming up with 291, including the bonuses (which apply only for '71 and '76).  MU considers Wade, Meminger and Lee as our consensus 1st team AAs.  Not sure what constitutes 2nd team consensus--i included anyone that was 2nd team on at least one of the major lists, and excluded Helms Foundation and anyone who was only honorable mention. 

Points
15   Conference title - 5 points (3 1 for CUSA, plus 71 & 76)
9   Conference tournament title - 3 points (3--one for the GMC, plus 71 & 76)
   Win percentage 80%+ 4 points, 60-79% 2 points, 35-49 -2 points, >35% -4 points
40   80+ WP  (10 seasons)
50   60-79 WP (25 seasons)
-8   35-50 WP (4 seasons)
-8   <35 WP (2 seasons)
0   No. 1 seed - 2 points
27   NCAA tournament berth - 1 point
0   NCAA 1st-rd. win as 12-16-seed - 1 point
12   Losing in second round - 3 points
40   Sweet 16 loss - 5 pts
20   Elite Eight loss - 10 pts
15   National semifinal loss - 15 points
20   Title game loss - 20 points
25   National title - 25 points
1   NIT title - 1 point
9   First-team All-American - 3 points (Meminger, Lee, Wade)
20   Second-team All-American - 2 points (Not sure what is considered Consensus)
4   Player taken in NBA's top 10 - 2 points  (4 points)
291   TOTAL

Given that Princeton (#22) has 289 points, we should know soon enough--I may have missed a few, but I'm not sure we have enough to climb into the top 15.

[dolly4512]

With all due respect, if anyone thinks Wade is not the best player in school history, They are not watching the sport. Van gundy and mark Jackson named him as the third best two-guard of all time behind Jordan and Kobe.

Note: crowder would have to come off the bench. His stats and accolades are amazing.