[Cracked Sidewalks] - MU & Self-Reporting

[mu03eng]

I do not think the University does itself any favors by issuing incomplete reports. When the players were suspended for the West Virginia game they should say why, so there is not speculation. It made me angry when the TV announcers during the West Virginia game were questioning why they were suspended and wondered why they were not suspended for the whole game. Every year you see starters at various universities told they will not start the game, but they come in a few minutes into the game. MU should tell the whole story and let the fans decide if the punishment fits the crime. The same thing with Cadougan and DJO being suspended for games. It should not be open for speculation what it was for. When a player did something wrong during Al McGuire's tenure he did not suspend players. He made them get on the microphone before the start of the game and apologise to the fans. To me this was an effective punishment. When they reported this supposed secondary violation they should of said what it was for. I see no reason to hide what happen, since they have disclosed it the the NCAA. The ambiguity of the report is probably more damaging than the actual infraction. They also should of said why Mayo was suspended. Maybe he was the one that got the free t-shirt.

I don't agree with airing dirty laundry and quite frankly would think less of the university for doing so, especially in the case of Mayo.  The university needs to establish a guideline for when it distributes information and when it doesn't and then stick to it.  To date I've been unable to decipher a pattern other than they seem much more willing to pass info out.

I had forgotten about the Mayo suspension.  That did not need to be made public, no one would have noticed in the press.  Sure Scoop noticed but jesus are they going to make PRs about team High Five proficiencies based on what Scoop notices???

The standard should be, what do we feel ethically, morally, and legally needs to be out there for public consumption, anything else STFU.  Going back to previous statements, basketball isn't the only face of the university, just the majority one, so control that message effectively in the modern media market.  Not something I see the current administration being able to do.

[Pakuni]

I don't agree with airing dirty laundry and quite frankly would think less of the university for doing so, especially in the case of Mayo.  The university needs to establish a guideline for when it distributes information and when it doesn't and then stick to it.  To date I've been unable to decipher a pattern other than they seem much more willing to pass info out.
I had forgotten about the Mayo suspension.  That did not need to be made public, no one would have noticed in the press.  Sure Scoop noticed but jesus are they going to make PRs about team High Five proficiencies based on what Scoop notices???

The university didn't announce Mayo's suspension. Buzz did. Take it up with him.

Beyond confirming that the school had self reported a possible NCAA violation - again, a common practice by NCAA members - what has the current administration put out there that other administrations have not?
The Club 720 citations? No, that was the MJS doing it's job by reviewing police reports.
Mayo's suspension? No, that was Buzz.
You've repeated it a few times now, but haven't cited a single instance.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Is that what happened at Penn State? I don't think it was a case of Paterno exercising absolute power. Rather, it was a cultural problem in which everyone (coach, AD, President, etc) decided that the reputation of the football program was more important than stopping the abuse of children.

Right, but that idea wasn't coming from the top-down, but rather from the head coach up to the president.

Joe, due to his reputation and winning a lot of games, carried a TON of weight. Nobody could afford to stop him without fear of repercussions. 

Good/bad/indifferent, I think it's good for a college coach to have a boss who is involved, and who's job security isn't directly tied to wins and losses (like a coach's job is).

Now, as far as Buzz vs LW, I think there might be some friction, but it appears like the narrative is overblown. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[brandx]

I think the legal stuff needs to decrease in Frequency and I would be shocked if Buzz did not feel very strongly the same way.  I do not know all the details and without that cannot totally comment on them, But I would prefer that to be fewer and farther in between.

If only more people felt the same way.....

[StillAWarrior]

The most cited "evidence" that Buzz is ticked off is that he took SMU's phone call when they came at him with a big money offer. Many, maybe most, coaches would do the same, especially if it's a school from their neck of the woods. Didn't Bill Self almost leave Kansas - Kansas! - for Oklahoma State because T. Boone Pickens brought him a wheelbarrow full of cash?

None of us have the first clue whether Buzz is ticked off or not.

I have no idea whether Buzz seriously considered SMU or if he was close to leaving.  But, I think it's worth noting that a guy who famously writes thousands of letters to others in his profession, publishes his email address and shares his telephone number is always going to take a call wherever it comes from.  Buzz understands building his network and the value that has.  People like Buzz will always take the call.  It's what he says once he's on the line that matters.  Personally, I'm happy that he appears to have said, "Thank you, but no."

[4everwarriors]

...for now.

[Goose]

4ever
Anything new on Looney?

[GGGG]

If smoothing the "rough edges" results in the Number 1 asset in the Athletic Department, and quite possibly the whole university, leaving - that repulses me.    Did Pat Richter go to the Wisconsin State Journal or another media outlet and dis Barry Alvarez over Brent Moss's cocaine bust, the Shoe Box improper benefits scandal, etc.?  You don't publicly air your dirty laundry.  I'm fine with LW the BOT addressing issues with Buzz, but you don't bring it to the attention of the local media.  

You have no proof whatsoever that LW "brought" this to the local media.  For all we know, Walker could have found out about it...called LW to confirm...and MU released a statement to him.  I think this is a much more likely scenario that LW bringing Walker information to undermine his coach.

[GGGG]

I do not think the University does itself any favors by issuing incomplete reports. When the players were suspended for the West Virginia game they should say why, so there is not speculation.

MU cannot do this...at least in an official capacity.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You have no proof whatsoever that LW "brought" this to the local media.

You're lack of proof doesn't support the narrative, therefore it is irrelevant.

[GGGG]

You're lack of proof doesn't support the narrative, therefore it is irrelevant.

If I had the desire to do a PhD, I would actually consider doing one on internet message boards and how quickly groupthink turns into "truth."  If you want to have some fun sometimes, go to the Penn State "Audibles" board, and you will learn the following:

...the Freeh Report was commissioned for the Trustees to cover their own ass.
...the report is full of lies, assumptions and falsified evidence
...the NCAA overreacted and is now shaking in their boots at the hellfire that the courts are going to rain down upon them.

Those will opposing views are quickly shouted down.

It is kind of like the narrative that happens here regarding Larry Williams.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If I had the desire to do a PhD, I would actually consider doing one on internet message boards and how quickly groupthink turns into "truth."  If you want to have some fun sometimes, go to the Penn State "Audibles" board, and you will learn the following:

...the Freeh Report was commissioned for the Trustees to cover their own ass.
...the report is full of lies, assumptions and falsified evidence
...the NCAA overreacted and is now shaking in their boots at the hellfire that the courts are going to rain down upon them.

Those will opposing views are quickly shouted down.

It is kind of like the narrative that happens here regarding Larry Williams.

+1million

I think the hardest thing for people to type sometimes is simply: "I don't know".

[mu03eng]

The university didn't announce Mayo's suspension. Buzz did. Take it up with him.

Beyond confirming that the school had self reported a possible NCAA violation - again, a common practice by NCAA members - what has the current administration put out there that other administrations have not?
The Club 720 citations? No, that was the MJS doing it's job by reviewing police reports.
Mayo's suspension? No, that was Buzz.
You've repeated it a few times now, but haven't cited a single instance.

Disagree, if you go back and read the JS article on Mayo's suspension, Buzz confirms Mayo's suspension.  Maybe its semantics but to me that is, the Mayo suspension story got out there and the media reached out to Buzz for comment.  Which means someone put it out there to begin with and I don't see how the media could have found it out without a leak, either accidental or intentional.  The only one that looks like might not have been leaked is the 720 story.

[Jay Bee]

This thread = bunch of hairy wet cats.

[mu03eng]

If I had the desire to do a PhD, I would actually consider doing one on internet message boards and how quickly groupthink turns into "truth."  If you want to have some fun sometimes, go to the Penn State "Audibles" board, and you will learn the following:

...the Freeh Report was commissioned for the Trustees to cover their own ass.
...the report is full of lies, assumptions and falsified evidence
...the NCAA overreacted and is now shaking in their boots at the hellfire that the courts are going to rain down upon them.

Those will opposing views are quickly shouted down.

It is kind of like the narrative that happens here regarding Larry Williams.

Timeout, just because its on a message board and it doesn't comply with your narrative, doesn't mean it can't be true.  The tinfoil LW narrative may be true, may not be, but neither side has the truth.  For instance, in your example above the Freeh report does have assumptions and inaccuracies, that is truth....however it may not be to the extent people are claiming especially to the level you noted.

Also don't think this is new, just a different format.  If you walk into Caffery's and start this debate you will get the same group think that you get on the message board, just the message board has records where the bar debate doesn't.

There is a segment of truth at the basis of the LW conspiracy, the question is how far does that truth extend and thats why we debate it and really should be the whole point of the internet

[GGGG]

Timeout, just because its on a message board and it doesn't comply with your narrative, doesn't mean it can't be true.  The tinfoil LW narrative may be true, may not be, but neither side has the truth.  For instance, in your example above the Freeh report does have assumptions and inaccuracies, that is truth....however it may not be to the extent people are claiming especially to the level you noted.

Also don't think this is new, just a different format.  If you walk into Caffery's and start this debate you will get the same group think that you get on the message board, just the message board has records where the bar debate doesn't.

There is a segment of truth at the basis of the LW conspiracy, the question is how far does that truth extend and thats why we debate it and really should be the whole point of the internet

The point isn't that it might not be true, but that it is considered true regardless of any evidence to suggest that this is the case.

[NersEllenson]

You have no proof whatsoever that LW "brought" this to the local media.  For all we know, Walker could have found out about it...called LW to confirm...and MU released a statement to him.  I think this is a much more likely scenario that LW bringing Walker information to undermine his coach.

MU issued a release about the investigation, and in said release made no mention of the minor/secondary nature of the infractions - which is just sheer stupidity - hey let's let speculation run rampant.  In said release there were comments from Larry Williams.  Larry Williams knows darn well what the nature of the infractions and investigation center around.  He chose to leave the minor details out.  Hmm...pretty sure Pat Richter or Barry Alvarez now, wouldn't leave their head coach out to dry on such matters.

Beyond this, Larry Williams, in my opinion, made his own grave in his previous interview with Don Walker when he pretty much trashed Buzz, and in expanding on that interview in the recent radio interview, Don Walker added that Larry Williams indicated Buzz runs his program with "rough edges."  If you or others continue to blindly think that there isn't a rift between Buzz and Larry - I don't know what to tell you!!

[GGGG]

MU issued a release about the investigation, and in said release made no mention of the minor/secondary nature of the infractions - which is just sheer stupidity - hey let's let speculation run rampant.  In said release there were comments from Larry Williams.  Larry Williams knows darn well what the nature of the infractions and investigation center around.  He chose to leave the minor details out.  Hmm...pretty sure Pat Richter or Barry Alvarez now, wouldn't leave their head coach out to dry on such matters.

We don't have the full text of the release so you have no idea what was said and what Walker chose to run with.

Beyond this, Larry Williams, in my opinion, made his own grave in his previous interview with Don Walker when he pretty much trashed Buzz, and in expanding on that interview in the recent radio interview, Don Walker added that Larry Williams indicated Buzz runs his program with "rough edges."  If you or others continue to blindly think that there isn't a rift between Buzz and Larry - I don't know what to tell you!!

There very well might be.  But don't make stuff up to support your point of view.

[Pakuni]

Disagree, if you go back and read the JS article on Mayo's suspension, Buzz confirms Mayo's suspension.  Maybe its semantics but to me that is, the Mayo suspension story got out there and the media reached out to Buzz for comment.  Which means someone put it out there to begin with and I don't see how the media could have found it out without a leak, either accidental or intentional.  The only one that looks like might not have been leaked is the 720 story.

You do realize, of course, that reports of Mayo's suspension had been posted on this forum and elsewhere for more than a day prior to Walker writing about it, right? And that reports of him being in some sort of trouble had been posted on this forum and elsewhere for weeks before then.

A person using logic might suggest that these reports got to Walker or someone else at the JS, and Walker then contacted Buzz who confirmed the reports.

A person driving a predetermined narrative might suggest that the administration "leaked" to Walker news that had already been out there for more than 24 hours in an effort to .... what?

Glad that you're now willing to consider that the 720 news "might" not have been leaked, given that the JS reporting on the matter clearly states that they obtained the information through other means.

[PaintTouches]

Just to clarify, there was no formal press release about the NCAA infractions. I don't know how Don Walker got his info but it was not from an official release. He did say MU put out an official statement, but that was most likely done as an answer to one of his questions.

[bilsu]

I am not saying MU should release everything to the press. What I am saying, for what they do release, they should say why. Saying Mayo has been suspended just leads to speculation. Saying he was suspended until he makes a better effort in the classroom (assuming that was the reason) cuts down on speculation on what is about. As long as MU was going to report that they self reported to NCAA they should disclose what the violation was. Frankly, nobody cares (except UW fans) if the violation was actually giving a t-shirt. The speculation of what it actually is probably more damaging than the disclosure of the actual violation. MU suspending players for a national TV game without saying why just leads to bad speculation. The funny thing about it is Buzz's dancing diverted away the attention from the suspensions. The University needs to decide if they need to disclose something. If they decide to disclose, they should not do it half-ass.

[GGGG]

I am not saying MU should release everything to the press. What I am saying, for what they do release, they should say why. Saying Mayo has been suspended just leads to speculation. Saying he was suspended until he makes a better effort in the classroom (assuming that was the reason) cuts down on speculation on what is about.

Again, they CANNOT say this due to privacy....they have to be generic about it. 

[bilsu]

Again, they CANNOT say this due to privacy....they have to be generic about it. 

They do not have to be private about everything.

[GGGG]

They do not have to be private about everything.

They do if they want to follow federal privacy laws (FERPA) and stay off the pages of the Chicago Tribune after the ensuing investigation.

[Pakuni]

I am not saying MU should release everything to the press. What I am saying, for what they do release, they should say why. Saying Mayo has been suspended just leads to speculation. Saying he was suspended until he makes a better effort in the classroom (assuming that was the reason) cuts down on speculation on what is about. As long as MU was going to report that they self reported to NCAA they should disclose what the violation was. Frankly, nobody cares (except UW fans) if the violation was actually giving a t-shirt. The speculation of what it actually is probably more damaging than the disclosure of the actual violation. MU suspending players for a national TV game without saying why just leads to bad speculation. The funny thing about it is Buzz's dancing diverted away the attention from the suspensions. The University needs to decide if they need to disclose something. If they decide to disclose, they should not do it half-ass.

MU cannot disclose "education records" of any of its students. Saying a kid has been suspended for missing classes, poor grades, skipping tutoring sessions, etc. could easily be interpreted as a release of education records, and thereby is prohibited by federal law.