[Cracked Sidewalks] - MU & Self-Reporting

[real chili 83]

Self reporting is best approach in my opinion, especially if infractions can be sold down thru self reporting. From what I hear it was smart move by MU. Suspensions are not out of the question from what I heard and actually may be in place. This has nothing to do Todd Mayo.

Goose...suspensions in place?  What are you referring to?   Suspensions for the alleged behavior related to the NCAA violation, or suspensions for some other behavior?  Would you mind clarifying?

[Goose]

I heard yesterday that incoming freshman is going to have similar situation that we saw with Juan last year.

[MUfan12]

I heard yesterday that incoming freshman is going to have similar situation that we saw with Juan last year.

Won't be self imposed, but heard this as well.

Just hope the staff is allowed to remain together this late in the offseason.

[Goose]

Agreed MUfan12. That might be another issue.

[Litehouse]

So is that the punishment for this whole violation incident?  From what I've gathered just reading the board, the story is that a recruit who is now on the team got a t-shirt from a former ass't coach.  So is this rumored suspension of an incoming freshman a result of that violation?  If so, at least it would be nice to put this whole thing to bed and move on.

[ATL MU Warrior]

So is that the punishment for this whole violation incident?  From what I've gathered just reading the board, the story is that a recruit who is now on the team got a t-shirt from a former ass't coach.  So is this rumored suspension of an incoming freshman a result of that violation?  If so, at least it would be nice to put this whole thing to bed and move on.

Well that can't be it (or all of it) if what MUfan12 or Goose have heard is accurate. 

[bilsu]

Well that can't be it (or all of it) if what MUfan12 or Goose have heard is accurate. 

I cannot believe that this is it. An assistant coach gives a player a t-shirt and the player gets suspended. Why would the player even think he is doing something wrong? The coach needs to know the rules. This is even worse, if the coach is now at another university and receives no punishment. If it is like Juan's situation then it is more likely that a booster gave a player something and maybe it was reported by one of the departing coaches. Even so, I think Juan's suspension for three games last year for getting invited to a Brewer game was over the top. How about taking away the boosters season tickets? How else are you going to control boosters?

[GGGG]

My understanding is that Juan went to a Brewer game when invited by a fellow student...whose dad happened to be a booster and provided the tickets.  I doubt anyone realized the error until afterwards.

Welcome to the NCAA...where they spend oodles of resources to determine if Shabazz Muhammed got support from a family friend, but allows athletes who have gotten $$$ in one sport to retain eligibility in another.  Makes no sense.

[real chili 83]

Just curious....what is the NCAA's definition of a "booster". 

[Rubie Q]

Just curious....what is the NCAA's definition of a "booster". 

In short: it's broad.

http://issuu.com/marquettesid/docs/compliance_brocure_reader_spreads_compliance_broch

[StillAWarrior]

I cannot believe that this is it. An assistant coach gives a player a t-shirt and the player gets suspended. Why would the player even think he is doing something wrong? The coach needs to know the rules.

Generally speaking, these kids know the rules.  I have had some experience with kids who are being recruited to play college sports (not nearly at the high major DI basketball level, but still DI sports), and the rules are drilled into them from a pretty early age.  Once a kid gets on that recruiting radar (and often before they're on the radar), they know when coaches can call them; when they can't; what they can send in the mail and when they can send it; when they can text; what they can do on an unofficial visit; what they can do on an official visit; etc.  I suspect most recruits would know that it's a violation of the NCAA rule to receive a t-shirt from an assistant coach, but would figure that if the coach was offering the shirt, "what the heck."  Even if they know it is a violation, I think a lot of the kids (if not most) will follow the lead of the adult in the situation.

I honestly think Juan's case is different.  If, as many on this board have said, he simply went to a Brewers game with a friend who's parent provided the ticket, it may well have never occurred to him that it was a violation.  The "booster" rule is so ridiculously broad, it's easy to understand how a kid might not realize that a friend's parent was a booster.  But, the kids know who the coaches are, and know that they cannot accept "extra benefits" from coaches.

[Pakuni]

My understanding is that Juan went to a Brewer game when invited by a fellow student...whose dad happened to be a booster and provided the tickets.  I doubt anyone realized the error until afterwards.

Welcome to the NCAA...where they spend oodles of resources to determine if Shabazz Muhammed got support from a family friend, but allows athletes who have gotten $$$ in one sport to retain eligibility in another.  Makes no sense.

I think you're understating the Shabazz Muhammed case.
That's about him receiving "support" from family friend who just happens to be a New York-based financial planner and wannabe sports agent. What a coincidence.
And then there's the matter of Shabazz's sister, who - despite being the 553rd ranked women's professional player -landed a sponsorship with adidas. Which also happens to be the sponsor or Muhammed's AAU team. And also happens to be the sponsor of the school which Muhammed chose to attend. Again, more coincidences.

[real chili 83]

In short: it's broad.

http://issuu.com/marquettesid/docs/compliance_brocure_reader_spreads_compliance_broch

Thanks for the link.  Bottom line is that we are all boosters.  Even Chicos. 

[real chili 83]

After reading the definition of a booster, it brought to mind an experience one of my neighbors had with NCAA rules.

The neighbor's daughter has a D1 scholarship at a school that is out of town.  The kid and her team was back in town last  year, playing the local D1 team.  After the game, my neighbors invited the whole team over for dinner, including the coaches.  The family said they had to be very careful with the dinner.....some of the players paid the family (a nominal sum) for the meal, to give the appearance that they were not receiving a free benefit, a "benefit"  coming technically from a booster.

[RawdogDX]

My "DERP DERP HERP DERP" are as follows:
1. Derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp. derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp!  PROVE ME WRONG!.
2. Derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp
derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp PROVE ME WRONG!
3. derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp NOBODY HAS PROVEN ME WRONG YET!

HERPY DERP DERP DERP HERP DERP!   PROVE ME WRONG!

I hate Larry Williams, and I'm a bitter human being, and I won't let facts get in the way of my misguided conspiracy theory that he's out to destroy Marquette basketball. 


FIXED!

 

Epic post.

[Spotcheck Billy]

none of my Badger friends have even mentioned this 'minor violation' - not sure why it's such a big deal here on 'scoop

[Bocephys]

none of my Badger friends have even mentioned this 'minor violation' - not sure why it's such a big deal here on 'scoop

Little brother syndrome.

[MUEng92]

I honestly think Juan's case is different.  If, as many on this board have said, he simply went to a Brewers game with a friend who's parent provided the ticket, it may well have never occurred to him that it was a violation.  The "booster" rule is so ridiculously broad, it's easy to understand how a kid might not realize that a friend's parent was a booster.  But, the kids know who the coaches are, and know that they cannot accept "extra benefits" from coaches.

Hypothetical tangent... is the friend/student considered to be a booster too?  What if he paid for the ticket (or beer or slice of pizza...) with money out of his wallet?  Does he have to prove where he got the money to pay for the ticket?  What if he paid for it with his allowance from his father the booster? 

I am only have serious about the last question.  Long live the NCAA!

[bilsu]

Hypothetical tangent... is the friend/student considered to be a booster too?  What if he paid for the ticket (or beer or slice of pizza...) with money out of his wallet?  Does he have to prove where he got the money to pay for the ticket?  What if he paid for it with his allowance from his father the booster? 

I am only have serious about the last question.  Long live the NCAA!

I think the NCAA pulls into the definition any household members of a booster. That part makes sense to me. However, I think there should be an exclusion for insignificant items. The reason for this is it is almost impossible to control or police by the athletic department or the NCAA. I am pretty sure that if you are a donor you are a booster. MU recently started a student donation program to the Blue and Gold Fund. I am going to assume that any student that donates to this to get credit for donation points would be classified as a booster. Assuming this, would the student/donor buying a donut for his friend who is a player be a violation?  What if he is driving to the mall and invites his player friend along? After all it is a violation to provide free transportation. MU was probably crazy to start the student Blue and Gold fund donation program. Now it has a campus full of boosters to screw things up.

[Aughnanure]

I have read this whole thread, and have no idea how I should feel about any of this. I just got more confused.

[Newsdreams]

We are all boosters!!! Darn my son was having a couple of beers with Otule last Friday. I'm not even going to ask him if he paid for any of Otule's beers!!

[DienerTime34]

This is like 9/11 times a million.

[The Equalizer]

I think people have twisted themselves into bunches trying to convince themselves that the rules are too hard to undersand and/or are subject to some minium threshold at which point they change from optional to meaninful.

Perhaps the D1 manual would be helpful:
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D112.pdf

Contrary to the multiple comments on how difficult these rules are to get right, I found the relevant passages quite easily, and neither strike me as particularly ambiguous:

With respect to the alleged T-shirt issue:

13.2.1.1 Specific Prohibitions. Specifically prohibited financial aid,benefits and arrangements include,but are not limited to, the following:
(a) An employment arrangement for a prospective student-athlete's relatives;
(b) Gift of clothing or equipment;
(c) Cosigning of loans;
(d) Providing loans to a prospective student-athlete's relatives or friends;
(e) Cash or like items;
(f) Any tangible items, including merchandise;
(g) Free or reduced-cost services, rentals or purchases of any type;
(h) Free or reduced-cost housing;
(i) Use of an institution's athletics equipment (e.g., for a high school all-star game);
(j) Sponsorship of or arrangement for an awards banquet for high school, preparatory school or two-year- college athletes by an institution, representatives of its athletics interests or its alumni groups or booster clubs; and
(k) Expenses for academic services (e.g., tutoring, test preparation) to assist in the completion of initial-eli- gibility or transfer-eligibility requirements or improvement of the prospective student-athlete's academic profile in conjunction with a waiver request. (Adopted: 4/23/08)

Next on the baseball ticket:

16.2.2.5 Professional Sports Tickets. An institution or any representative of its athletics interests may not purchase or otherwise obtain tickets to a professional sports event and make these tickets available to student- athletes enrolled in an NCAA member institution. Such a gift of tickets would represent an unacceptable extra benefit. (See Bylaw 16.7.1.1 for permissible provision of professional sports tickets as team entertainment related to an away-from-home contest.)

[tower912]

The tricky part of the second one is the phrase "representatives of its athletic interests".

[Pakuni]

The tricky part of the second one is the phrase "representatives of its athletic interests".

Actually, that's outlined pretty clearly as well.

DEFINITIONS



Representative of Athletics Interests

A "representative of the institution's athletics interests" (athletics representative), or booster, is an individual who is known (or who should have been known) by the institution's staff to:


a) Have participated in or is a member of an agency or organization promoting the institution's intercollegiate athletics program (e.g., a booster club, athletic foundation, university club);

b) Have made financial contributions to the athletics department or to an athletics booster organization of that institution;

c) Be assisting or to have been requested (by the athletics department staff) to assist in the recruitment of prospects;

d) Be assisting or to have assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student-athletes or their families (e.g., helping to arrange summer and/or vacation employment); or

e) Have been involved otherwise in promoting the institution's athletics program.

http://www.bigeast.org/AbouttheBIGEAST/NCAAGuidelines.aspx