Poll: What Becomes Of Todd Mayo?

[GGGG]

Punks don't study, act lackadaisical on the court, run away when time get tough. Couldn't he be playing in the pro am?? That's not a school related function.

My daughter doesn't study.  Has no real use for school.  It is maddening as a parent, but I wouldn't call her a "punk" by any stretch.  Would you?

And he isn't "running away."  He is suspended.

[NersEllenson]

Vander may have driving ability, but the results of those drives is usually a wild, missed layup.  Vander scores in transition.  He cannot create his own shot.  Has virtually no pull up game off the dribble.  Vander is a great athlete who has a LONG way to go to be offensively efficient.

Seriously, 7 seconds on the shot clock, and some here would rather Vander have the ball in his hands than Mayo?  Ridiculous.

Mayo is also a solid defender, and the disparity between he and Vander defensively is quite minimal.  Everyone points to Vander's D as being so amazing, yet his steal percentage, blocked shots, aren't anything out of the ordinary.  The reality is, is that many are trying to find silver linings in Vander's game, which was atrocious as a freshman, and marginal as a sophomore.  We'll see where he is this year - hopefully a lot improved, cause we need him to be, particularly if Mayo is gone.

[Skatastrophy]

That's exactly what happened with Jamail Jones... MU announced his release on April 27, but he (presumably) didn't commit to FGCU until late-May/early-June as that announcement was made Jun 9.

Pat Hazel and Erik Williams too.  I would assume the same courtesy would have been provided to Dave Singleton as well if anyone really cared about walk-ons.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Todd just posted on Facebook that he is working out in South Africa.  He also said that he is coming home soon.

He probably saw this thread and wants to come back and 'straighten' things out here

[RJax55]

This is nothing short of nonsense. Both Blue and Mayo played important minutes with the same players and against our opponents best. And in those minutes, Mayo was more effective at being "the guy" offensively. That's because a) he's a better outside shooter, b) he's a better mid range shooter, and c) despite Vander's size and athleticism, Todd's the better finisher. That's what the numbers say and that's what my eyeballs saw.

That depends entirely at what point in the season you're discussing.... Non-conference and early Big East play, it was Todd. However, by the end of Big East season, Vander was clearly the better scorer.

Last 12 Big East games (includes the BE Tourney game against Louisville)
Mayo = 3.92 PPG
Blue = 9.75 PPG

Now, Mayo had a nice run in the NCAAs... And, I agree that the case can be made that he has the potential to be a better scorer than Blue, but I don't buy the argument that last year's results make that a clear case.

[GGGG]

Seriously, 7 seconds on the shot clock, and some here would rather Vander have the ball in his hands than Mayo?  Ridiculous.

No one said that.

Mayo is also a solid defender, and the disparity between he and Vander defensively is quite minimal.  Everyone points to Vander's D as being so amazing, yet his steal percentage, blocked shots, aren't anything out of the ordinary.  

Sorry, but Vander is a much better defender.  And it isn't just about the stats, because stats cannot tell the whole story on defense.  Vander is almost always in the right place in the team defensive rotation.  Furthermore, Vander is much more versatile because he can guard many more different types of players.  An example is the UW game....at various points during the game he was guarding their point (Taylor) ...their off guard (Gasser or Brust)...and their small forward (Brusewitz...who is a big SF)

Mayo is a good on-ball defender, but he cannot guard big.  And frankly I don't recall him guarding a point guard very often either.  He's just not as versatile as Vander is.  

(And now that I look at the stats, Vander had 40 steals in 901 minutes.  Mayo had 21 in 737 minutes.  Hmmmm....)

[NersEllenson]

No one said that.


Sorry, but Vander is a much better defender.  And it isn't just about the stats, because stats cannot tell the whole story on defense.  Vander is almost always in the right place in the team defensive rotation.  Furthermore, Vander is much more versatile because he can guard many more different types of players.  An example is the UW game....at various points during the game he was guarding their point (Taylor) ...their off guard (Gasser or Brust)...and their small forward (Brusewitz...who is a big SF)

Mayo is a good on-ball defender, but he cannot guard big.  And frankly I don't recall him guarding a point guard very often either.  He's just not as versatile as Vander is.  

(And now that I look at the stats, Vander had 40 steals in 901 minutes.  Mayo had 21 in 737 minutes.  Hmmmm....)

So, you and everyone else here agree they would rather the ball be in Mayo's hands with 7 seconds left on the shot clock, than Vander's?  Seems odd to me, cause usually the guy with the most game gets the ball in those situations - Jordan, Wade, LeBron, Carmelo, etc...so you guys argue Blue is the better player, yet prefer Mayo to have the ball in those situations.  Sorry, I just prefer the clutch offensive player over the guy who can "be in the right place on team defensive rotations."

And Mayo absolutely can guard a point guard and 2 guard...a small forward, edge to Vander.  Vander has more length than does Mayo, and thats about the extent of his edge defensively.

[Blackhat]

Vander starts because he's better everywhere except shooting from beyond the arc.

Get outta here with that stuff.





Mayo had a better jump shot out of the gate in his one year with a D I program and had a better handle resulting in less turnovers per game than Vander.  He needs to pick up his intensity and perhaps needs to pick it up the motivation outside of ball.   But he was the most polished first year shooting guard I've seen since Jerel.

[Benny B]

Seriously, 7 seconds on the shot clock, and some here would rather Vander have the ball in his hands than Mayo?  Ridiculous.

If there's only 7 seconds on the shot clock, chances are pretty good that you're suffering through a UW possession.  In that case, who cares whether Mayo or Blue gets the ball... a steal is a steal.

[GGGG]

So, you and everyone else here agree they would rather the ball be in Mayo's hands with 7 seconds left on the shot clock, than Vander's?  Seems odd to me, cause usually the guy with the most game gets the ball in those situations - Jordan, Wade, LeBron, Carmelo, etc...so you guys argue Blue is the better player, yet prefer Mayo to have the ball in those situations.  Sorry, I just prefer the clutch offensive player over the guy who can "be in the right place on team defensive rotations."

Are you reading an alternate or imaginary version of MU Scoop?  

I never said that Blue was the "better player."  In fact, earlier in this very same thread, I said that they should play about the same number of minutes.

But what started my involvement in this thread is that you initially implied that the only reason Blue starts is because "there could be some real chemistry/ego issues on the team" if he doesn't.  Which is completely baseless and something you seemingly have backed away from.

[Skatastrophy]

Ners is as bad as Chicos. 

[Pakuni]

So, you and everyone else here agree they would rather the ball be in Mayo's hands with 7 seconds left on the shot clock, than Vander's?  Seems odd to me, cause usually the guy with the most game gets the ball in those situations - Jordan, Wade, LeBron, Carmelo, etc...so you guys argue Blue is the better player, yet prefer Mayo to have the ball in those situations.  Sorry, I just prefer the clutch offensive player over the guy who can "be in the right place on team defensive rotations."

Because the entirety of a basketball player's value apparently comes down to who's more suited to take the ball with 7 seconds left on the shot clock.
Scottie Pippen was a much better player than Toni Kukoc. Yet in clutch situations, Phil Jackson drew up the play for Kukoc (much to Scottie's chagrin). Weird.

[Blackhat]

According to baseball stats geeks there's no such thing as clutch.

[NersEllenson]

Are you reading an alternate or imaginary version of MU Scoop?  

I never said that Blue was the "better player."  In fact, earlier in this very same thread, I said that they should play about the same number of minutes.

But what started my involvement in this thread is that you initially implied that the only reason Blue starts is because "there could be some real chemistry/ego issues on the team" if he doesn't.  Which is completely baseless and something you seemingly have backed away from.

Blue's confidence was about as fragile as can be coming out of his freshman year.  He made good strides after the Villanova game this year having made his FT's and then being great down the stretch from the line.  However,  Vander's confidence/ego would not handle sitting on the bench well...which is true of all players, yet some players can handle that better than others.

[GoldenEagleExchange]

At first I though it was laughable that this was turning into a Blue v Mayo thread, then I saw who was responsible for that happening, and it made sense.

They are different players that fulfill different roles. And after next year, I could easily see it not being a case of which one of the two starts, but who starts alongside both of them. But I suppose it doesn't make sense to try to look at our players in complimentary roles when we can look at them in antagonistic roles. After all, some people just aren't happy if they aren't arguing.

Though admittedly, this was probably the funniest line...

Really? He'd get the scholarship over Jake Thomas, who earned it last year and is more likely to be in line for minutes next year (even if only 5-10)? Sorry, I just don't buy that.

Jake is already getting a scholarship from Jamail transferring.

[brewcity77]

Jake is already getting a scholarship from Jamail transferring.

And when was this announced? Source, please.

[brewcity77]

Jake is probably about 6-3 actually...He is a pretty big and built kid.

5-10 minutes per game was what I meant...otherwise it'd have been 5'10"

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

When Talking about Offense:

Mayo passes the eyeball test more than Vander.  I feel a lot more confident with the ball in Mayo's hands, than I do Vander's  - and Mayo has proven to be the more clutch player. 

When Talking about Defense:

Mayo is also a solid defender, and the disparity between he and Vander defensively is quite minimal.  Everyone points to Vander's D as being so amazing, yet his steal percentage, blocked shots, aren't anything out of the ordinary.

It's ok to use the "eye test" to evaluate offense, but we should use stats to evaluate defense?

I think they are both good players, and very comparable. But, I wouldn't start Mayo in front of Vander.

[brewcity77]

It's ok to use the "eye test" to evaluate offense, but we should use stats to evaluate defense?

I think Ners' favorite guy is almost always the first or second guy off the bench. Last year it was Davante Gardner (who admittedly performed above my expectations when his mpg increased). This year it's Todd Mayo. Next year it will probably be TJ Taylor, Steve Taylor, or (dark horse) Jake Thomas. This thread is just a redux of last year's incredibly over-discussed Gardner/Otule threads with different names subbed in.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

This just isn't true. Todd is a better shooter/finisher period, not just from the "3". He shot almost 5% better on 2 point attempts (48.4 - 43.6) and 5.4% better from the line (76.2 - 70.8).

Vander is the better defender (though Todd is very good) and the better rebounder. His assist/turnover rate is also better.

Overall, a very close call. I agree with Sultan - Vander starts (like Otule) because of defense, but Mayo is in there an awful lot at crunch time.

Where are you getting the FG%?

They aren't matching what I'm finding
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/marquette/vander-blue

I've got 41.3% for Vander, and 42.9% for Todd on 2pt FG.

Todd is the better 3pt shooter, but inside the arc, I don't think he's as prolific as we remember. Very similar to Vander.

We probably remember a lot more of Vanders botched lay-ups than we do of Todd's ill-advised runners. Oh well.

[PaintTouches]

Moral of the story: Marquette is better with both Mayo and Blue on the team. Here's to hoping he gets it together and laces up his Jordans come November.

[GGGG]

Blue's confidence was about as fragile as can be coming out of his freshman year.  He made good strides after the Villanova game this year having made his FT's and then being great down the stretch from the line.  However,  Vander's confidence/ego would not handle sitting on the bench well...which is true of all players, yet some players can handle that better than others.

But you *know* that there would be "chemistry/ego" issues if Vander didn't start?

Did Buzz email you about that as well?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I know this won't solve anything, but here are their numbers per 40/min.

PPG        APG    RPG       BPG       SPG      TO
14.98       2.27   5.12      0.19      1.14     3.03
               
PPG        APG    RPG       BPG       SPG       TO
13.07       4.05   7.00      0.31      1.71      3.42

Really pretty close and productive #'s overall.

Vander is a good passer and outstanding rebounder for a 2G. If he can find a serviceable jumper, he's an all-conf. performer.

Todd had a very good Frosh. year and his numbers show it. If he continues to get better, he's going to be a very good college player. He's exceeded my expectations.

Oh, and if Buzz had his choice, he'd start Vander... because he does.

[Freeport Warrior]

Sorry, but Vander is a much better defender.

Respectfully disagree Sultan. I used to think this was true, but spent a ton of time watching the games and isolating the two. Although Vander has the rep as being a defensive stopper, they looked almost identical. Vander gambled a ton more, and therefore had more steals.

Haven't read the whole thread, but there are people who would really want the ball in Vander's hands with 7 seconds left? The only strategy I see that working is having him drive and hoping he gets fouled, because he really doesn't finish well. To his credit, he does shoot FTs, but I would rather have the ball with Mayo, Gardner, or Lockett for sure.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The idea that you can evaluate players by "who do you want to have the ball with 7 seconds?" is dumb.

That's like deciding your center by who wins more jump balls. It's 1 play.