Next-level of Administration Support

[Lennys Tap]

LW said nothing about Buzz that Buzz hasn't said himself. It was completely blown out of proportion on these boards. A public clarification was not at all necessary because a lot of MU fans weren't even aware of the quotes and a vast majority of the MU fans who did see them understood that he wasn't taking shots at Buzz. In other words, it was a non-issue.

I don't think it's ever a non issue when an AD criticizes one of his coaches in public. It's something you almost never see done. The fact that Buzz had already apologized publicly doesn't make it more okay for LW to pile on - it makes it even less necessary and explicable.

[MerrittsMustache]

I don't think it's ever a non issue when an AD criticizes one of his coaches in public. It's something you almost never see done. The fact that Buzz had already apologized publicly doesn't make it more okay for LW to pile on - it makes it even less necessary and explicable.

Just for fun, let's review the quote...

"He's an emotional guy, passionate guy, but if you're going to have long-term success, you have to channel that and control that. He was happy as a clam to dance across the court, but he didn't think about offending somebody else. But that is his passion and exuberance. He is either going to explode because his tie is on too tight or he's going to offend somebody that is irrevocable."

What did he say that wasn't true? What did he say that was "piling on?" What did he say that was unnecessary and inexplicable?

I'll save you the time. Nothing, nothing and nothing.

[Pakuni]

I don't think it's ever a non issue when an AD criticizes one of his coaches in public. It's something you almost never see done. The fact that Buzz had already apologized publicly doesn't make it more okay for LW to pile on - it makes it even less necessary and explicable.

Something else you almost never see done:


Interesting that the outrage isn't about what LW said (because, it seems, nobody disagrees with the essence of what he said) but with the fact he said it.
Is Buzz Williams above reproach?

Edit: And, for good measure, let's note that this "criticism" by LW is about as vanilla as it gets. "Hey Buzz ... it might not be a good idea to dance on opposing team's courts after close wins. Tends to make enemies. Thanks."

[79Warrior]

Or this crazy hypothetical: LW used his connections to help land MU a spot in the game, then left it to Broeker - who, as we know, oversees scheduling - to finalize the arrangements.
The highly technical term for this in the business world is "delegating."

That

[MUfan12]

Something else you almost never see done:


Interesting that the outrage isn't about what LW said (because, it seems, nobody disagrees with the essence of what he said) but with the fact he said it.
Is Buzz Williams above reproach?

Edit: And, for good measure, let's note that this "criticism" by LW is about as vanilla as it gets. "Hey Buzz ... it might not be a good idea to dance on opposing team's courts after close wins. Tends to make enemies. Thanks."

Buzz immediately and profusely apologized for the dance. No need to pile on.

[Rubie Q]

Buzz immediately and profusely apologized for the dance. No need to pile on.

One man's "piling on" is another man's "being Buzz's boss."

[MarsupialMadness]

I don't see anything wrong with the comments.  It reminds me a little of Kenny Williams vs. Ozzie Guillen.  Ozzie was out there and said a lot of stupid things that Kenny would have to publicly apologize for (because that's his job) and many thought they had a poor relationship.  But ultimately Kenny gave the reigns over to Ozzie and they were pretty successful... even won a championship.  Everyone loved when Ozzie would say something colorful, but go too far over the line and it will ultimately be his downfall (see his Castro comments this year).  That's exactly what LW is saying here -- what makes you, breaks you.

[MUfan12]

One man's "piling on" is another man's "being Buzz's boss."

Be Buzz's boss at the Al, then. The public reprimand was what people had a problem with.

[MerrittsMustache]

Be Buzz's boss at the Al, then. The public reprimand was what people had a problem with.

I would bet that an overwhelming number of MU fans had no problem with his comments whatsoever.

[NersEllenson]

Just for fun, let's review the quote...

"He's an emotional guy, passionate guy, but if you're going to have long-term success, you have to channel that and control that. He was happy as a clam to dance across the court, but he didn't think about offending somebody else. But that is his passion and exuberance. He is either going to explode because his tie is on too tight or he's going to offend somebody that is irrevocable."

What did he say that wasn't true? What did he say that was "piling on?" What did he say that was unnecessary and inexplicable?

I'll save you the time. Nothing, nothing and nothing.

And you failed to mention the first quote in the article - the part where LW "looks forward to helping Buzz become a better coach."  When you've never coached a day in your life (at least at a paid professional level), you don't come in and say to the media you look forward to helping someone become a better coach/grow as a coach.  You especially don't say it when you are just 59 days on the job, and the guy you are critiquing is in his 4th year and on his way to delivering your school's first back to back Sweet 16 appearances in 35+ years.  The irony of LW's comments, are that their idiocy damn near offended someone irrevocably - Buzz.  

Sadly, I'd almost like to see Buzz leave MU at this point just to see what would happen to the program - many here sure seem to think MU is an elite level program just due to the fact it spends a lot of money.  The reality is, our program is only as good as the head coach - for every Tom Crean and Buzz Williams - there are also Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane.  Pretty sure we don't need our new A.D., to help our current coach become a better coach - seems Buzz has done pretty well prior to Larry Williams being involved in his life.  

[Goose]

Question---Does MU really spend a lot of money or does Dick Strong spend a lot of money? Very easy to have big budget if money is given and has to be spent on men's basketball.

[MerrittsMustache]

And you failed to mention the first quote in the article - the part where LW "looks forward to helping Buzz become a better coach."  When you've never coached a day in your life (at least at a paid professional level), you don't come in and say to the media you look forward to helping someone become a better coach/grow as a coach.  You especially don't say it when you are just 59 days on the job, and the guy you are critiquing is in his 4th year and on his way to delivering your school's first back to back Sweet 16 appearances in 35+ years.  The irony of LW's comments, are that their idiocy damn near offended someone irrevocably - Buzz.  

Sadly, I'd almost like to see Buzz leave MU at this point just to see what would happen to the program - many here sure seem to think MU is an elite level program just due to the fact it spends a lot of money.  The reality is, our program is only as good as the head coach - for every Tom Crean and Buzz Williams - there are also Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane.  Pretty sure we don't need our new A.D., to help our current coach become a better coach - seems Buzz has done pretty well prior to Larry Williams being involved in his life.  

The actual quote: "I expect Buzz back. Want him back. I think we started something good with him. . . . I'd be excited to help him grow as a coach."

That's a very different comment than saying, "I'm going to help Buzz be a better coach." I don't think you'd find a coach anywhere who doesn't think that he needs to grow as a coach. When Buzz reads books about coaching/leadership or talks with other coaches or other leaders, he's attempting to grow as a coach. Larry Williams is Buzz Williams' boss. If he's not trying to help Buzz grow in his role, then he never would have been hired.

[GGGG]

And you failed to mention the first quote in the article - the part where LW "looks forward to helping Buzz become a better coach."  When you've never coached a day in your life (at least at a paid professional level), you don't come in and say to the media you look forward to helping someone become a better coach/grow as a coach. 

I have said this before....

That is the completely wrong way to look at that quote.  Completely. 

Let me give you an example.  I have a couple graphic designers on my staff.  I can't design worth a crap.  If I say "I'd be excited to help them grow as designers," that doesn't mean that I am going to physically sit down next to them to help them become better designers.  It simply means I'm going to support them and give them the resources necessary to help improve themselves within their profession.

Sadly, I'd almost like to see Buzz leave MU at this point just to see what would happen to the program - many here sure seem to think MU is an elite level program just due to the fact it spends a lot of money.  The reality is, our program is only as good as the head coach - for every Tom Crean and Buzz Williams - there are also Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane.  Pretty sure we don't need our new A.D., to help our current coach become a better coach - seems Buzz has done pretty well prior to Larry Williams being involved in his life. 

And it seems to me that you are getting OUTRAGED over something that we have no idea if Buzz is even worried about.  I mean, do you think their entire relationship is defined by quotes in a newspaper from three months ago???

[Bocephys]

I would bet that an overwhelming number of MU fans had no problem with his comments whatsoever.

I would bet an overwhelming of MU fans don't even know who Larry Williams is, let alone are aware of his comments.

[NersEllenson]

The actual quote: "I expect Buzz back. Want him back. I think we started something good with him. . . . I'd be excited to help him grow as a coach."

That's a very different comment than saying, "I'm going to help Buzz be a better coach." I don't think you'd find a coach anywhere who doesn't think that he needs to grow as a coach. When Buzz reads books about coaching/leadership or talks with other coaches or other leaders, he's attempting to grow as a coach. Larry Williams is Buzz Williams' boss. If he's not trying to help Buzz grow in his role, then he never would have been hired.

Just by virtue of someone being appointed your boss, by no means does that necessarily mean they are the most/best qualified to help you grow - particularly in the coaching/A.D. relationship.  You combine the above statements with saying your coach ties his tie too tight, to where his head is going to explode, or that he is going to irrevocably offend somebody - pardon me, but I don't feel those are particularly intelligent comments or ringing endorsements - to make to the local newspaper.  Furthermore, it reeks of condescending, and almost fatherly...Buzz is a grown man...
and doesn't need to be told he ties his tie too tight or is going to offend someone irrevocably.

Buzz has a long history of great relationships with people, largely through the way he conducts himself.  Last thought, what is wrong with Buzz's exuberance, passion, dancing antics, etc.?   Kinda nice not having a cookie cutter in the box personality on the sidelines.  Hell his dances - after the DJO putback dunk and the W.V. game got more national press than anything anyone in academia or administration have done in the last several years...Al McGuire sure was revered by many nationally and at MU, and he was far from cookie cutter and appropriate at all times.

[Lennys Tap]

Just for fun, let's review the quote...

"He's an emotional guy, passionate guy, but if you're going to have long-term success, you have to channel that and control that. He was happy as a clam to dance across the court, but he didn't think about offending somebody else. But that is his passion and exuberance. He is either going to explode because his tie is on too tight or he's going to offend somebody that is irrevocable."

What did he say that wasn't true? What did he say that was "piling on?" What did he say that was unnecessary and inexplicable?

I'll save you the time. Nothing, nothing and nothing.

Sorry Stache, but we just don't see this the same way. As to:
1.True? Maybe, maybe not (seems a little over the top to me), but the "truth" of LW's statement was never my point.
2.Piling on? Buzz started apologizing 30 seconds after the dance and hadn't stopped. So, yeah.
3.Inexplicable? No, and I never said it was. Unnecessary? Most definitely. What was to be gained by publicly taking your coach to the woodshed over something that had been apologized for loudly and clearly? I'll save you the time. Nothing.

To go a step further, though, I would have had no problem with LW taking BW aside and offering his council or even a reprimand.To me, that's part of his job. But in all my years of following sports, I don't know that I've ever seen an AD put a coach down publicly over something he already had apologized for. I think there are good reasons for that.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, I'll be even more clear.  The original idea for a battleship game came from MSU AD Mike Hollis.  He teamed up with morale entertainment to launch the game.  UNC was in the game and their AD is Bubba Cunningham, an ND alum.  Larry being the smart guy that he is calls Bubba.  Bubba tells him it's going to be an annual game to honor the military.  Larry pleads with Bubba to put in a good word for MU next year.  Bubba also involves fellow ND alum and OSU athletic director Gene Smith.  Morale entertainment, Gene Smith and Larry Williams discuss the possibility of a 2012 game.  When an agreement is reached, Larry hands over the reigns to Broeker to settle the date/ details.

Ners, have you ever talked to Larry.  He's a very connected guy and very impressive. He made it clear at a luncheon he wants Buzz long term and sees MU as a perennial top ten team.  Why don't you meet him instead of basing your opinion on some newspaper quote, a quote that I might add that was taken out of context.  I have no interest in a pissing match I'm just here to share and learn info from others on the great program we all love.

Shaq - Why didn't these Notre Dame alums lobby Morale entertainment for Notre Dame to play in the aircraft carrier game??  Why would they prefer to help their boy Larry, and not their amazing alma mater, Notre Dame - much less help out a rival of Notre Dame - Marquette?  Haven't met Larry.  But just a few questions:  Why would an A.D., not want Buzz Williams as its coach long term??  Does that really take any genius? 

I don't really want to get in a pissing match either..I'm just pointing out a few oddities with regard to the story you tell.  Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Larry Williams told the above tale as to how the game came to be, yet that it was big fat lie, yet one Larry's large ego sure would like to tell...

[Pakuni]

Just by virtue of someone being appointed your boss, by no means does that necessarily mean they are the most/best qualified to help you grow - particularly in the coaching/A.D. relationship.

Where did LW suggest he was the "most/best qualified?"
Oh, he didn't.

Buzz is a grown man...
and doesn't need to be told he ties his tie too tight or is going to offend someone irrevocably.

Maybe he does.

 Last thought, what is wrong with Buzz's exuberance, passion, dancing antics, etc.?   Kinda nice not having a cookie cutter in the box personality on the sidelines.  Hell his dances - after the DJO putback dunk and the W.V. game got more national press than anything anyone in academia or administration have done in the last several years...Al McGuire sure was revered by many nationally and at MU, and he was far from cookie cutter and appropriate at all times.

There's nothing wrong with exuberance and passion. Heck, I loved the dance. I also think he ought never do it again, which I think is LW's point. Do it once, and it's seen as the spontaneous exuberance of an offbeat personality. Do it again, and it's (correctly, IMO), seen as scripted douchebaggery and taunting.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Shaq - Why didn't these Notre Dame alums lobby Morale entertainment for Notre Dame to play in the aircraft carrier game??  Why would they prefer to help their boy Larry, and not their amazing alma mater, Notre Dame - much less help out a rival of Notre Dame - Marquette?  Haven't met Larry.  But just a few questions:  Why would an A.D., not want Buzz Williams as its coach long term??  Does that really take any genius? 

I don't really want to get in a pissing match either..I'm just pointing out a few oddities with regard to the story you tell.  Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Larry Williams told the above tale as to how the game came to be, yet that it was big fat lie, yet one Larry's large ego sure would like to tell...

All carrier games are comprised of Nike teams.  ND is Adidas

[Pakuni]

Shaq - Why didn't these Notre Dame alums lobby Morale entertainment for Notre Dame to play in the aircraft carrier game??  Why would they prefer to help their boy Larry, and not their amazing alma mater, Notre Dame - much less help out a rival of Notre Dame - Marquette?  Haven't met Larry.  But just a few questions:  Why would an A.D., not want Buzz Williams as its coach long term??  Does that really take any genius? 

I don't really want to get in a pissing match either..I'm just pointing out a few oddities with regard to the story you tell.  Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Larry Williams told the above tale as to how the game came to be, yet that it was big fat lie, yet one Larry's large ego sure would like to tell...

You haven't met the guy, yet know him well enough to determine he goes around telling big fat lies to feed his large ego.
I can't believe anyone thinks you're being unreasonable here.

[shaquilvaine]

Shaq - Why didn't these Notre Dame alums lobby Morale entertainment for Notre Dame to play in the aircraft carrier game??  Why would they prefer to help their boy Larry, and not their amazing alma mater, Notre Dame - much less help out a rival of Notre Dame - Marquette?  Haven't met Larry.  But just a few questions:  Why would an A.D., not want Buzz Williams as its coach long term??  Does that really take any genius?  

I don't really want to get in a pissing match either..I'm just pointing out a few oddities with regard to the story you tell.  Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Larry Williams told the above tale as to how the game came to be, yet that it was big fat lie, yet one Larry's large ego sure would like to tell...

I stand by my comments.  Why dont you call Broeker and ask him about it?    I knew you never met him. Your credibility is zero.  You are entitled to your opinion about Larry, but when you are spewing fallacies I felt the need to set the record straight.  As the game nears you might even get to read about the actual details.

[GGGG]

I don't really want to get in a pissing match either..

 

Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if Larry Williams told the above tale as to how the game came to be, yet that it was big fat lie, yet one Larry's large ego sure would like to tell...

You admit you never met the man...never spoken with him...yet you are saying this based upon a few quotes in a newspaper?  Do you think that is how Buzz instructs his players to judge people?

[NersEllenson]

I stand by my comments.  Why dont you call Broeker and ask him about it?    I knew you never met him. Your credibility is zero.  You are entitled to your opinion about Larry, but when you are spewing fallacies I felt the need to set the record straight.  As the game nears you might even get to read about the actual details.

Fair enough Shaq - and appreciate your input as to how the game came to be.  Just for a little more context and background, can you share with the board, how you came to learn of how things went down with getting MU in this game?  Was it at the luncheon you mentioned?  A personal one on one conversation with Larry Williams?  A friend told you?  Etc.

I apologize for spewing fallacies, and commend Larry Williams for getting the aircraft carrier game done..if in fact he is the catalyst for MU's involvement in the game.

[79Warrior]

Question---Does MU really spend a lot of money or does Dick Strong spend a lot of money? Very easy to have big budget if money is given and has to be spent on men's basketball.

Just about every big time program has a sugar daddy. Nothing wrong with that.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Ners,

I don't want to sound condescending, but you seem to have a Buzz vs Larry thing going on where anybody giving some credit to Larry means they don't like Buzz.

I don't think anybody has implied that or believes that, but that seems to be the source of your angst this off season.

Larry might be an absolute pretty boy and terrible at his job. He might run Buzz off and push MU back to the stone ages. It is entirely possible, I'm serious. I really don't know what is going to happen. I don't know the guy.

But, I don't think we can live in fear simply because we don't know.