Next-level of Administration Support

[Hoopaloop]

Dang, man. For somebody who likes to rail against the people who mock the tinfoil hat brigade, you sure do provide them with a lot of fodder.

!!!!

You have to realize that the problem with ners is that he is still hung up on the WVU dance (among other things) and believes his boy was wronged by LW. He cannot or is incapable of getting over that and thus LW is a bad ND guy that is not in BW's corner because of a perceived slight in a context he knows nothing about.  That has thus perpetuated itself further into anything the basketball program does is 100% because of Buzz and LW, Pilarz or anyone else merely is an obstacle for Buzz.  Or, on a good day, he'll grant these folks 5% credit.   

This has been an entertaining thread.  BMA would be proud.

[GGGG]

Ok, so is it really reasonable to think LW had to put a call in to Mike Broeker to learn the dynamics of the MU basketball schedule - as you hypothesized?  I'd sure as hell hope a competent athletic director would have a good handle on the schedule situation with his number 1 cash cow sport. 

Lastly, I'm not going to attack you personally and say you are resorting to histrionics, or quote you and say "because Sultan says" etc., as you have done in this thread - which is what you do when you really have no solid rebuttal to the answers/questions I've posed in response to your posts.

Excuse me?  I have answered every question you have posed to me in this thread.  This is your problem...when you hear that Buzz heard about the carrier game from MB, you automatically start asking questions under the assumption that Buzz and LW aren't on speaking terms.

Why would you make that assumption?  Because of a bias you have going back to some comments in a newspaper from three or four months ago?  As I mentioned, perhaps since MB does the scheduling that Buzz and him go back and forth more about that subject then LW and Buzz do.  But instead of acknowledging that as a possibility, you make some kind of stupid, over the top response.  I least I am willing to admit that I don't know what I don't know.

bma was right....you are incapable of having a reasonable back and forth with anything related to Buzz. 

[GGGG]

!!!!

You have to realize that the problem with ners is that he is still hung up on the WVU dance (among other things) and believes his boy was wronged by LW. He cannot or is incapable of getting over that and thus LW is a bad ND guy that is not in BW's corner because of a perceived slight in a context he knows nothing about.  That has thus perpetuated itself further into anything the basketball program does is 100% because of Buzz and LW, Pilarz or anyone else merely is an obstacle for Buzz.  Or, on a good day, he'll grant these folks 5% credit.   

This is 100% correct. 

[Pakuni]

If you say so....however, just to point out...Larry Williams wasn't hired until 3 weeks after the first Aircraft Carrier game was played...so not sure when the UNC AD put in a good word for Larry for the following year?  Also, do you not think it is odd that if Larry Williams were the catalyst behind this game, that he wouldn't have broken the news to Buzz, or approached Buzz about it?  Why go through Broeker?  Perhaps LW and Buzz aren't on talking terms??  It is an absolute fact that the first Buzz heard about it was through Broeker....

Just so I'm clear, you think Shaquilvaine's version of events - i.e. a couple of influential ADs get together with a third with whom they share longstanding relationships and collegiate ties to engineer a matchup - is unreasonable/unlikely.
Instead, you're proffering a version that says the organizers of the aircraft carrier game decided the 2012 matchup within three weeks of the 2011 game, and chose Marquette - a school with, if we're being honest, a moderate national profile - based on the sheer awesomeness of a fourth-year head coach with (at the time) one Sweet Sixteen appearance under his belt.
Really?

[MerrittsMustache]

Just so I'm clear, you think Shaquilvaine's version of events - i.e. a couple of influential ADs get together with a third with whom they share longstanding relationships and collegiate ties to engineer a matchup - is unreasonable/unlikely.

I heard it all went down via LinkedIn.

[NersEllenson]

Sultan/Chicos -  I can promise there won't be a bevy of schools calling MU next spring trying to try to hire away Larry Williams or Scott Pilarz.  I'm not going to give more than 5% of credit for the current state of MU hoops to Larry Williams and Pilarz.  Why would you guys??  What have those 2 guys done for MU hoops??  MU hoops is what it is at present, because of (in no particular order) - Father Wild, Crean, Buzz, D-Wade.  With Buzz shepherding the program the last 4 years....and getting really good results and some really good incoming recruits - Buzz is the university's biggest asset. Then again, since you guys work/have worked in university administration, you have a bias and need to defend your administrative kin to the grave.

Lastly Sultan - you still haven't answered the question:  Do you really feel LW had to put a call into Mike Broeker to determine the dynamics of the MU schedule/if it would be possible for MU to play the game on the aircraft carrier??   (That is what you hypothesized as to why if LW was the catalyst behind landing the aircraft game...Buzz first heard about it through Broeker - which is 100% FACT.)  And you accuse me of making stupid/over the top statements?  Sure seems if I'm the athletic director and I* personally landed a huge exposure game/opportunity for the basketball program - I'd be pretty ecstatic to call the coach to share the great news.  Call me crazy and stupid again - it's what people do when they have no legitimate argument.  And P.S., I could give 2 craps what Chicos, BMA or you think of me.

[NersEllenson]

Just so I'm clear, you think Shaquilvaine's version of events - i.e. a couple of influential ADs get together with a third with whom they share longstanding relationships and collegiate ties to engineer a matchup - is unreasonable/unlikely.
Instead, you're proffering a version that says the organizers of the aircraft carrier game decided the 2012 matchup within three weeks of the 2011 game, and chose Marquette - a school with, if we're being honest, a moderate national profile - based on the sheer awesomeness of a fourth-year head coach with (at the time) one Sweet Sixteen appearance under his belt.
Really?

All good points - the thing I found odd about Shaquilvaine's scenario (and not saying it wasn't accurate or truthful - just odd), was that the first Buzz Williams heard about the game, it came from Broeker.  Just really surprised if Larry Williams engineered the whole process and game becoming a reality - he had Broeker call Buzz with the news...that is all...

[Rubie Q]

All good points - the thing I found odd about Shaquilvaine's scenario (and not saying it wasn't accurate or truthful - just odd), was that the first Buzz Williams heard about the game, it came from Broeker.  Just really surprised if Larry Williams engineered the whole process and game becoming a reality - he had Broeker call Buzz with the news...that is all...

That's not what Shaqilvaine said happened.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Simple logic 101:

Buzz is awesome. Fact.

Larry dissed Buzz. Fact.

MU gets a high profile game on a Aircraft Carrier. Fact.

Therefore, Larry deserves 5% credit.

I don't need to know anything else. My opinion formed by the facts. If you disagree, you are a d*ck.

[GGGG]

Sultan/Chicos -  I can promise there won't be a bevy of schools calling MU next spring trying to try to hire away Larry Williams or Scott Pilarz.  I'm not going to give more than 5% of credit for the current state of MU hoops to Larry Williams and Pilarz.  Why would you guys??  What have those 2 guys done for MU hoops??

I have answered this already.

Lastly Sultan - you still haven't answered the question:  Do you really feel LW had to put a call into Mike Broeker to determine the dynamics of the MU schedule/if it would be possible for MU to play the game on the aircraft carrier??   (That is what you hypothesized as to why if LW was the catalyst behind landing the aircraft game...Buzz first heard about it through Broeker - which is 100% FACT.)  

If building the basketball schedule is MB's responsibility first and foremost, I think LW may not know all of the up to date details at any given moment.  Furthermore since it is MB's responsibility, checking with him makes sense.  And I am not claiming it to be fact...just a scenario that I think is much more plausible than the "LW and Buzz aren't talking" question that you asked.  

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

I can promise there won't be a bevy of schools calling MU next spring trying to try to hire away Larry Williams or Scott Pilarz.  I'm not going to give more than 5% of credit for the current state of MU hoops to Larry Williams and Pilarz.

Ners - I don't think the first point has been discussed on this post at all... Is it possible you are mistaking this for another thread?

Also the topic at the beginning of this thread didn't discuss past success of the program, and certainly didn't give credit to people who weren't there for the FF run, etc.

Maybe its just me, but your tone seems aggressive. What's got you so worked up, big guy?

[MerrittsMustache]

All good points - the thing I found odd about Shaquilvaine's scenario (and not saying it wasn't accurate or truthful - just odd), was that the first Buzz Williams heard about the game, it came from Broeker.  Just really surprised if Larry Williams engineered the whole process and game becoming a reality - he had Broeker call Buzz with the news...that is all...

How about this outlandish hypothetical: LW was dealing with other happenings within the athletic dept so Broeker told Buzz about the OSU game.

[shaquilvaine]

Ners, I'll be even more clear.  The original idea for a battleship game came from MSU AD Mike Hollis.  He teamed up with morale entertainment to launch the game.  UNC was in the game and their AD is Bubba Cunningham, an ND alum.  Larry being the smart guy that he is calls Bubba.  Bubba tells him it's going to be an annual game to honor the military.  Larry pleads with Bubba to put in a good word for MU next year.  Bubba also involves fellow ND alum and OSU athletic director Gene Smith.  Morale entertainment, Gene Smith and Larry Williams discuss the possibility of a 2012 game.  When an agreement is reached, Larry hands over the reigns to Broeker to settle the date/ details.

Ners, have you ever talked to Larry.  He's a very connected guy and very impressive. He made it clear at a luncheon he wants Buzz long term and sees MU as a perennial top ten team.  Why don't you meet him instead of basing your opinion on some newspaper quote, a quote that I might add that was taken out of context.  I have no interest in a pissing match I'm just here to share and learn info from others on the great program we all love.

[Pakuni]

How about this outlandish hypothetical: LW was dealing with other happenings within the athletic dept so Broeker told Buzz about the OSU game.

Or this crazy hypothetical: LW used his connections to help land MU a spot in the game, then left it to Broeker - who, as we know, oversees scheduling - to finalize the arrangements.
The highly technical term for this in the business world is "delegating."

[GGGG]

Ners, I'll be even more clear.  The original idea for a battleship game came from MSU AD Mike Hollis.  He teamed up with morale entertainment to launch the game.  UNC was in the game and their AD is Bubba Cunningham, an ND alum.  Larry being the smart guy that he is calls Bubba.  Bubba tells him it's going to be an annual game to honor the military.  Larry pleads with Bubba to put in a good word for MU next year.  Bubba also involves fellow ND alum and OSU athletic director Gene Smith.  Morale entertainment, Gene Smith and Larry Williams discuss the possibility of a 2012 game.  When an agreement is reached, Larry hands over the reigns to Broeker to settle the date/ details.

Ners, have you ever talked to Larry.  He's a very connected guy and very impressive. He made it clear at a luncheon he wants Buzz long term and sees MU as a perennial top ten team.  Why don't you meet him instead of basing your opinion on some newspaper quote, a quote that I might add that was taken out of context.  I have no interest in a pissing match I'm just here to share and learn info from others on the great program we all love.

This makes perfect sense....thank you for providing this.

[MerrittsMustache]

Ners, I'll be even more clear.  The original idea for a battleship game came from MSU AD Mike Hollis.  He teamed up with morale entertainment to launch the game.  UNC was in the game and their AD is Bubba Cunningham, an ND alum.  Larry being the smart guy that he is calls Bubba.  Bubba tells him it's going to be an annual game to honor the military.  Larry pleads with Bubba to put in a good word for MU next year.  Bubba also involves fellow ND alum and OSU athletic director Gene Smith.  Morale entertainment, Gene Smith and Larry Williams discuss the possibility of a 2012 game.  When an agreement is reached, Larry hands over the reigns to Broeker to settle the date/ details.

Ners, have you ever talked to Larry.  He's a very connected guy and very impressive. He made it clear at a luncheon he wants Buzz long term and sees MU as a perennial top ten team.  Why don't you meet him instead of basing your opinion on some newspaper quote, a quote that I might add that was taken out of context.  I have no interest in a pissing match I'm just here to share and learn info from others on the great program we all love.

There are 4 schools involved in the first 2 battleship games. Three of those schools' ADs are ND alums. That's not just a coincidence.

[MarsupialMadness]

There are 4 schools involved in the first 2 battleship games. Three of those schools' ADs are ND alums. That's not just a coincidence.

There's a chance that's just coincidence.  But it shows that LW had his hand in things.

[Blackhat]

 LW should take to the mic at Buzz's BBQ.  


At 6'8" 3 bills I don't think I'll be bringing up the Enola Gay theory.

[brewcity77]

There are 4 schools involved in the first 2 battleship games. Three of those schools' ADs are ND alums. That's not just a coincidence.

Well, let's not forget that with 3 carrier games on Nov. 9, that list should be 8 schools involved. In the other two games (including the other "official" Carrier Classic that is Florida/Georgetown) the ADs are Syracuse's Daryl Gross (no ND ties I know of), San Diego State's Jim Sterk (Notre Dame alum), Florida's Jeremy Foley (no ND ties), and Georgetown's Lee Reed (no ND ties). So it's actually four of eight. But in the actual Carrier Classic, there are no ND connections among the ADs (Foley and Reed).

Definitely glad for Shaquilvaine's input, but the actual Carrier Classic has no ND ties amongst the ADs that I know of. Of course, if anyone has more info, please provide.

[Desert_warrior]

There are 4 schools involved in the first 2 battleship games. Three of those schools' ADs are ND alums. That's not just a coincidence.

I thought Uconn was suppose to be in the Carrier Classic this year and when it fell through, MU was asked.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6948663/uconn-huskies-sign-play-2012-carrier-classic-aboard-aircraft-carrier

[Lennys Tap]

Shaq,
Thanks for the info on how this all went down. Kudos to LW for getting it done. To be clear, I've never been one to criticize Larry because of where he went to school or what sport he played. Nor do I doubt that he's a smart and well connected guy.

However, I still have a problem with his remarks regarding Buzz in the Journal last winter. You say they were taken out of context and make it sound as if Larry himself told you that himself. Well and good. LW wouldn't be the first guy to be used by a writer to "create" a story. I just wished he would have clarified publicly that his (very public) remarks were misconstued rather than sharing it in private. I just think that when you step in it in public you also make amends there.

All that said, I truly hope that Fr Pilarz, LW and Buzz are all on the same page going forward. The Marquette basketball program is on the verge of sustained excellence that we haven't seen since the 1970s. IMHO Buzz is the essential ingredient to making this a reality - hope the powers that be agree.

[brewcity77]

I thought Uconn was suppose to be in the Carrier Classic this year and when it fell through, MU was asked.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6948663/uconn-huskies-sign-play-2012-carrier-classic-aboard-aircraft-carrier

Looking it up, I don't even know which one is the actual "Carrier Classic" anymore. I've seen numerous places saying it's Florida/GT, but others that say it's MU/tOSU and that Florida/GT was set up in under a month. UConn and Arizona were supposed to be in the 2012 edition, but now neither are playing on a carrier.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Simple logic 101:

MU gets a high profile game on a Aircraft Carrier. Fact.

we don't actually know yet if the ship will really be an aircraft carrier

[leever]

we don't actually know yet if the ship will really be an aircraft carrier

You thinkin' maybe sailboat?

[MerrittsMustache]

However, I still have a problem with his remarks regarding Buzz in the Journal last winter. You say they were taken out of context and make it sound as if Larry himself told you that himself. Well and good. LW wouldn't be the first guy to be used by a writer to "create" a story. I just wished he would have clarified publicly that his (very public) remarks were misconstued rather than sharing it in private. I just think that when you step in it in public you also make amends there.

LW said nothing about Buzz that Buzz hasn't said himself. It was completely blown out of proportion on these boards. A public clarification was not at all necessary because a lot of MU fans weren't even aware of the quotes and a vast majority of the MU fans who did see them understood that he wasn't taking shots at Buzz. In other words, it was a non-issue.