Full court pressure! Alleluia!

[NCMUFan]

Another example where full court pressure nearly pulled of the victory for us on an excellent team is the Marquette-Georgetown game two years in the Big East Tournament.  With only a minute or so to go, Marquette was down a significant number of points.  We got a number of immediate steals or turnovers off of full court pressure to only lose by a point or so.

[Murffieus]

As I say in the late stages of a game an unrehearsed  confusing "scrambled eggs" type press can make a difference. At that point of the game there isn't always a lot of rational thinking by the offense under pressure trying to protect a lead.

I don't recall a lot of full court press against Duke----played them tight on the half court----but keep in mind that it was early in the season----and Duke was playing 4 frosh and 2 sophs. The better teams learn to protect the ball as the year goes on!

[tower912]

We did press against Duke and we did it to exploit a weakness in the other team.   Paulus was just back from an injury.   So we used our superior athleticism to keep other weaknesses from being exploited by them while simultaneously running them off of the court.   Amazing concept.

[bilsu]

We were all over Texas Tech. The problem with the press at MU is the coach. He is afraid to lose and goes conservative. One of the things about the press is it opens up the offensive game. Barro was more effective on offense when he was beating the bigger centers down the floor. A fast pace is what James needs. Matthews and NcNeal also are very adept at getting down the floor on offense. I would press for the reason it makes our offense better.

[Ready2Fly]

Murf - please stop insisting that you can "only press with UAB-type athletes."  As if they're the only team that has ever had success running the press. 

Someone previously mentioned Arkansas.  So you relented for one post and used them as an example too.  Then you went back to your "only with UAB-type athletes" argument. 

Do Kentucky's national championships in the late nineties ring a bell?  How about VCU this year, or George Mason last year?  Duke used to apply a lot of 3/4 and 1/2 court trapping pressure in the early to mid 90's.  South Carolina made the elite eight with a ton of pressure D.  Oklahooma made the championship game in the late 80's with all-out pressure.  Oh yeah, UAB had some success with it in the recent past, in case you forgot.  That was a joke.  Of course you remember them.  At any rate, the list could go on and on and on and on and on with teams that use pressure D and win. 

Your selective memory is comical.

[Murffieus]

Arkansas & UAB used the te same type of press and had the same type of quick athletic talent. The UAB coach coached under Richardson.

A good example of a team run amuck full court pressing is Louisville----last year Pitino didn't press and finally his team overachieved expectations.

You have to have a very special type of talent to make a full court press work against the quality teams.

As I say ( and bilsu too) each year Crean starts out imbracing the full court game on offense and defense-----with inconsistent results-----and by January has reverted back to the half court game on both sides of the court!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Arkansas & UAB used the te same type of press and had the same type of quick athletic talent. The UAB coach coached under Richardson.

A good example of a team run amuck full court pressing is Louisville----last year Pitino didn't press and finally his team overachieved expectations.

You have to have a very special type of talent to make a full court press work against the quality teams.

As I say ( and bilsu too) each year Crean starts out imbracing the full court game on offense and defense-----with inconsistent results-----and by January has reverted back to the half court game on both sides of the court!

#1 his name is Mike Anderson... for being such a big fan of UAB, I would think that you would have known that. 

#2 UAB and Arkansas employed an all out pressing style for the entire game. This is not unlike how Syracuse uses a 2-3 zone for the entire game. It's just the way they play (WV uses a 1-3-1 all of the time as well)

BUT, just because a team isn't as proficient at running a 2-3 zone as Syracuse doesn't mean that it isn't a good strategy to use in certain situations. Just like pressing in certain situations can be effective as well.

A team doesn't have to be perfect at a every style of defense they play, they just has to be good enough to provide some confusion and/or different looks for opposing teams.

[Murffieus]

When you press aggressively which is what you people are suggesting, you have to be damn near perfect or the opposition gets by those first wave defenders getting numbers (3 on 2) on you while the  ball moves rapidly down the floor for a high percentage score opportunity.

You people haven't addressed that risk-----all you're doing is focusing on the possible reward----there's a damn good reason why the vast majority of teams don't press-----how many teams in the final 4 the last 10 years have pressed----maybe at crunch time when they need the ball to get back into the game (desperation)----but as a strategic tactic----teams just don't use it!

Pitino learned a lesson the hard way on this----all he did was beat his players into the ground pressing practice after practice and game after game! Last year he didn't press much----and guess what----very few injuries and finished very strong for the first time in years!

[tower912]

"you people"..... holy crap, Murf.   Wow.     What you aren't seeing is the depth.   For the sake of argument, let us say that we press full-time.   Let us also say that for the first 12 minutes or so of the game, our guards play their guards to a standstill.   At the 12 minute mark, there Niv Berkowitz wannabe backup guards come in the game because the starters need a blow.   At that point, we sic 'mo, daveed, Christopherson, Mbakwe and Burke at them for the next five minutes.   How many back up point guards can you think of that will be able to survive those 5 minutes unscathed?

[Phi Iota Gamma 84]

I've been won over.  If we have trouble with a certain team we should start recruiting the same type of players that they have.  With this in mind we need to start recruiting NDSU type players and playing the 35 second offense.

Yep, that's it we need more NDSU type players you convinced me.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

When you press aggressively which is what you people are suggesting, you have to be damn near perfect or the opposition gets by those first wave defenders getting numbers (3 on 2) on you while the  ball moves rapidly down the floor for a high percentage score opportunity.

You people haven't addressed that risk-----all you're doing is focusing on the possible reward----there's a damn good reason why the vast majority of teams don't press-----how many teams in the final 4 the last 10 years have pressed----maybe at crunch time when they need the ball to get back into the game (desperation)----but as a strategic tactic----teams just don't use it!

Pitino learned a lesson the hard way on this----all he did was beat his players into the ground pressing practice after practice and game after game! Last year he didn't press much----and guess what----very few injuries and finished very strong for the first time in years!

what, since he went to the final four 2 years ago? 

[Murffieus]

Ziggy----for the past 4-5 years he's had top 10 recruiting classes-----and except for the final 4 appearance and last year----he's underachieved that recruited talent by a wide margin!

IMO had he pressed last year as he had the other years, Ville would have faded again in the 2nd half because of the physical toll instead of improve like they did without the press------these are human beings out there not motors-----but even motors burn out!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

When you press aggressively which is what you people are suggesting, you have to be damn near perfect or the opposition gets by those first wave defenders getting numbers (3 on 2) on you while the  ball moves rapidly down the floor for a high percentage score opportunity.

You people haven't addressed that risk-----all you're doing is focusing on the possible reward----there's a damn good reason why the vast majority of teams don't press-----how many teams in the final 4 the last 10 years have pressed----maybe at crunch time when they need the ball to get back into the game (desperation)----but as a strategic tactic----teams just don't use it!

Pitino learned a lesson the hard way on this----all he did was beat his players into the ground pressing practice after practice and game after game! Last year he didn't press much----and guess what----very few injuries and finished very strong for the first time in years!

I'm not sure that you are correct that a lot of teams don't use it as a tactic. There are A LOT of college basketball teams, and a lot of games that aren't on TV... so it's hard to really know how many teams press at certain times in certain games. (is anybody watching a Mountain West game at 12am on a Wednesday?)

With that said, I will try to put my theory in very plain English (please note: I am not a division 1 head coach, so I do admit that I may be incorrect):

#1 MU has increased depth this year due to the return of all of the key players as well as adding some young players who should be able to contribute off of the bench.

#2 MU may not have the most physical, or best starting line-up in the conference, but 1-10 they have good athletic ability and some good 1 on 1 defenders as well as several players who excel at playing in the open court

#3 MU may/should try to put McNeal, Wes, and DJ in positions where they can utilize there open court abilities on both the offense and defensive end (steals, tips, deflections, attacking the hoop, drawing fouls, etc)

#4 Pressing (at certain points in a game) will allow MU to get their players into open court situations as well as wear down opposing teams

#5 MU should have an advantage when both teams go to their bench players because MU will have more depth than most opposing teams

#6 MU will have a good opportunity to outscore opposing teams when their bench players come in and compete with MU's starters and bench players because MU has more talent on the bench that most opposing teams


Now, with all of this said, there are not guarantees in life, and some opposing teams may be able to handle MU's press rather effectively. I know that in past seasons, MU hasn't been a dominant pressing team. BUT, I think with the added depth this year, MU will be able to effectively press at select times in order to create mis-matches and wear other teams out.

A prime example was last year vs Villanova at home (took Scottie Reynolds out of his game). I suspect MU will use pressing and trapping tactics more often this year to make teams adjust to their style and hopefully make them use their bench more than they really want to.

I do not think MU will become UAB... and I do not think that a team has to be perfect at pressing to make it work. The whole "scrambled eggs" theory is actually true (especially given MU's depth)... but I just expect MU to do it several times throughout a game... not just in the last few minutes.

[StillAWarrior]

On a related note:  I hope we're all correct about our depth.  I'm very optimistic about next season, but it seems like a lot of people (including me) are expecting an awful lot from our 5 (!) new players.  We sure seem deep, i just hope it works out that way.

It's amazing, really, what has happened to Marquette's talent level.  Obviously, there are no guarantees in life, but it sure seems to me like Marquette's talent level -- top to bottom -- is much higher than in 2003.  Compare:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

Wade Jackson Diener Novak Merritt Chapman Townsend Sanders Bradley Grimm Freund Sichting

James McNeal Matthews Barro Fitzgerald Cubillan Hayward Acker Mbakwe Hazel Sanders Christoperson Burke Blackledge (?)

Granted, the talent at the top of that 2003 FF team was pretty special, but after the top five or six,  dropped off pretty quickly.  It seems like next year's team really is going to be pretty deep.  Damn, is it October yet?!

[Big Papi]

how many teams in the final 4 the last 10 years have pressed----maybe at crunch time when they need the ball to get back into the game (desperation)----but as a strategic tactic----teams just don't use it!

Maybe not the last 10 years but Kentucky with Pitino and Arkansas won national titles by pressing.  UNLV played an extremely up tempo game and won a national title.  Within the last 10 years Kansas(title game) and UNC(national title) played a very uptempo game.

I don't think anyone on this board is saying press 40 minutes.  Heck that is not what TC has said.  He has stated that he wants to play more uptempo offensively and defensively.  You will see MU use defensive man to man pressure from endline to endline in spurts to disrupte the our opponents offensive flow.  We have the talent and depth to do that this year.

[mu03eng]

I don't think pressing 40 minutes is the option.  However, think how disruptive it will be to bounce between man to man, 3/4 trap, and full court pressure.  Maybe you go press after makes and man after misses on the offesive end.  Keeps the other team not knowing what to do.  Plus I whole heartedly agree with the depth arguement, we have too much depth to not use it.  Wear other teams out and use McNeal and Wesley in the open court which suits their styles.

[Niv Berkowitz]

Solid retort MU2002Alum. Solid.

I mean...I'm no D-1 coach or anything so I may be wrong too. But you're observation is spot on. MU has the horses to use the press more often this year.

[Murffieus]

IMO either you are a pressing team or not----if it's (the press) is going to be something you turn on and off, it won't be effective----TC has tried that from time to time with unimpressive results-----in IMO, adding a 5' 6" guard isn't going to change that!

IMO again----if you're not the prototype pressing team, the only time that it makes sense to press is at crunch time (especially at home where the crowd gets into it) when you're down and you need to steal the ball!

[muwarrior87]

I think we've had about enough of Murf's opinion on this subject.  The fact of the matter is that if you press after made baskets and play man to man or zone or something else after misses, you can still be effective with the press. I think just about everyone has offered up an opinion on this issue and I for one am amazed that nearly 70 posts can be made about it. But that's just me.

[Murffieus]

The key word in your post is "CAN" be effective------well anything is possible-----but the odds are that unless you have the prototype talent and your coach knows how to effectively teach a double up zone press (not many do)----it will present diminishing returns!

[muwarrior87]

okey dokey, if you say so, I'm convinced that Murf is right...everybody, this man is always right!! Especially when it comes to MU and its pressing abilities 

[mu03eng]

I will give it one last go.


Why don't we have the talent Murph?  We have more than Acker coming in.  Everything I have heard says Christopherson, Mkwabe, and Hazel are fast and atheletic.  Plus we have all the usual suspects and Acker.  Thats an awlful lot of depth.  We don't need "UAB-atheletes" for an occasional press.....we aren't doing 40 minutes of hell here.  With the depth and atheletism we have, should be enough for man on miss and press on hits.

Now the coaching, we saw the press work against Nova last year to shut down Reynolds after he had a hot start.  Obviously, Crean could coach it to the degree it worked against an All-Big East guard and there rest of his team.

Bottom line until we see it in action this season and see the press fail, I find it hard to believe it can't be effective all season and in the dance.

[Ready2Fly]

2002mualum - you took the words right out of my mouth.  I agree wholeheartedly.  100%.

Murf - saying something like "aside from the final four run two years ago and last year's late-season success, Pitino's teams have faded down the stretch in recent years" is simply asinine, and you know it. 

Aside from double-digit cahmpionships, UCLA underachieved during John Wooden's tenure.  See, I can do it too.

[Murffieus]

03eng-----those are all frosh----maybe someday but not going to make a big difference next year on offense or defense on a veteran team.

How did we stop Reynolds? He had 25 points against us!

Why gamble on a double team press when you don't have the athletes to play it?--------teach a half court containment defense properly and you're way ahead!

[bilsu]

One way to use more players is to press. Your starters cannot play as many minutes. I think Crean is thinking he can get more players involved, which is important if you want to keep young players from transferring. The press, if beaten, can result in easy baskets. But what is the difference if the opponent scores in 10 seconds or 30 seconds. We are not always going to stop them in a half court defense. We certainly could not stop Michigan St. The idea is to speed up the game to take advantage of our depth. How many times have we seen the other team hit a shot with no time left on the clock. I remember when we played North Carolina when Wardle was our best player. Their whole team was at a different speed then we were. They forced us to play quickly, which resulted in bad decisions. The same thing ocurred when we played Kansas in the final four. The really good teams put pressure on you defensively and offensively and they do not let up. Offensively, we are better in an open court game than a half court game. We do not have the stud to go to in a half court game to consistantly get us two points. Generaly, teams only press after made baskets, so we will not press the whole game, but I believe we are better if we press as much as possible.