Full court pressure! Alleluia!

[tower912]

There are two good reasons to press.  1. To expose weaknesses and wear out the other team.   2.   To cover weaknesses on your own.    We have our top 8 players returning.   With the possible exceptions of Fitz and Lazar, all have the athleticism to press, and even they can find roles in a press.   If our 5 newcomers assimilate quickly and have the advertised skills, we could very well be the deepest team in the country (admittedly a best case scenario with many things that can go wrong)     What we don't have is a balanced offense with solid post play and outside shooting.  Mbakwe and Christopherson will help, but there is still plenty of room to grow.
   Run them in and out, subbing freely, creating turnovers and wearing out even the best point guards.  This will have the added benefit of keeping everyone focused and into the game because they know they may go in at any moment.   Even assuming that this will be the one time that Murf has ever been right and that presses work less effectively as the season progresses, this will buy us time to more effectively install the offense and define roles for the times when we will have to play half-court games.   In addition, knowing we can do it makes other teams prepare for it.    There really is no down-side to having 13 players, using them, and at least having 40 minute pressure in our arsenal.

[Murffieus]

tower----who is going to wear out whom?----we already fade at the end of each season playing a half court game!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

There are two good reasons to press.  1. To expose weaknesses and wear out the other team.   2.   To cover weaknesses on your own.   

There really is no down-side to having 13 players, using them, and at least having 40 minute pressure in our arsenal.

Nicely put.

We can cover for some half-court deficiencies on offense and defense by trying to speed the game up on both ends and open the floor up. Wes, McNeal and DJ are all excellent open court players... so the more we can get them the ball in space the better off MU is.

You can create space/open court by pressing/trapping and wearing teams down and creating some additional turnovers. This obviously makes out defense better, but also improves the offense because I'll take my chances with Wes or McNeal coming hard off the wing in an open court situation.

It's not as easy as I just typed... but using more players and pressing in certain situations can only benefit MU and add another wrinkle to it's game.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

tower----who is going to wear out whom?----we already fade at the end of each season playing a half court game!

I think everybody here is suggesting that this team is deeper than previous teams and therefor MU will have a better chance of wearing other teams out.

This team is legitimately 10 players deep... and can go to 12 players if need be. Not many teams can do that.

[tower912]

Murf, 6 scholarship guards (07-08) is more than 4 scholarship guards. (06-07)   7 players 6'6" or taller (07-08) is more than 6 players (o6-07), 4 of which actually played.  More players with more talent equals more depth than last year.  I am sorry that the concept of more players with more talent is so difficult for you to grasp.

[Murffieus]

Tower----ou mean that McNeal, DJ, and Mathews will be playing less minutes----lots of luck!

Believe me---there is nothing to be gained in pressing full court unless we need the ball at crunch time (then maybe)-----but we weren't even effective going for the ball 3/4 and 1/2 court last year at crunch time when we needed the ball-----you mean Acker and Christoferson are the difference on that?

I also keep telling you that Barro isn't quick enough to challenge the high outlet pass----this goes right by you----wht i don't know!

[jtate15]

Don't forget how much Crean covets deflections. Using the press speeds up opponents, and provides more opportunity for deflections and potential steals, which we know our guards do well.

[bilsu]

Presses are going to be less effective in March than November for two reasons. One teams have practiced 5 months so are better at handling any kind of defense. Second you are playing the better teams in March.

However, the ability to press is very important. You have to be able to turn it up to make comebacks such as Ohio St. did in the NCAA tournament this year. Of course it helps to have players who can hit threes and score quickly. Turning up the pressure works best when a team tries to sit on a lead. The best way to beat a press is to attack it and take the ball to the basket, which is the opposite of sitting on a lead.

Assuming he is still around Blackledge could be an important player in the press. He has the height and athleticism to defend the long pass over the press. In McGuire's presses, Bo Ellis used to play deep just for this reason. With Ellis teams could not beat the press by using a long pass. The 75-76 team was the best pressing team ever at MU(also the best team). Ellis would play back. I tried to picture where Whitehead was used. I am assuming he was on the inbounds player causing problems with his height. Leaving Butch Lee, Earl tatum and Lloyd Walton to apply the pressure.

One of the problems with a deep team is to get enough playing time for all the players. One way to do this is to press so players need to be substituted for. If you are to tired to play, you are not going to complain about being on the bench.

[mviale]

nonsense - I have seen a march marquette team get destroyed by a pressing arkansas

[tower912]

Murf, don't try to convince me that Ooze isn't quick enough.  Apparently you have to convince TC and EVERY OTHER POSTER on this thread.    Ooze is quick enough to run the floor and beat other big men down the floor for easy baskets repeatedly last year, but isn't quick enough to be the back line in the press.   Nice logic.

[Murffieus]

bilsu is correct about the very limited effectiveness of presses----that is unless you have talent like UAB/Arkansas which allows their main MO to be the press!

Makes no sense to me to practice hard on something all season long that will be ineffective when you need your best defense against the better teams in the last 1/3 of the season

[tower912]

Odd, you have posted extensively elsewhere about how TC's teams fade down the stretch, and they manage to do that without pressing.    Perhaps this year, with this combination of talent, having the press in the arsenal down the stretch will be a weapon we haven't had before.   Plus, by using it earlier in the year, we get experience for our 5 newcomers so that when the inevitable injury to one of our upperclassmen occurs, they can step in and step up and not look lost out there.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

bilsu is correct about the very limited effectiveness of presses----that is unless you have talent like UAB/Arkansas which allows their main MO to be the press!

Makes no sense to me to practice hard on something all season long that will be ineffective when you need your best defense against the better teams in the last 1/3 of the season

I'm not going to speak for everybody on the board, but I'm simply saying pressing will be a weapon MU can use this year due to their depth and athleticism at several positions. (I think that is what several people here are saying)

That's it.

It's ONE OPTION that MU can use to try and win games. Just like playing zone sometimes, or playing 3 guards, or playing 2 centers at the same time... it's an option to try and make other teams adjust to what MU is doing. Teams accross the country employ different strategies that allow them to play to their strengths and take advantage of opposing team's weaknesses.

That's it.

I don't think MU's record is going to hinge upon if they can press all season or not. But, given the depth that they have, pressing can force opponents them to use more subs and therefore work to MU's advantage because they have a deep bench this season.

That's it.

Don't make this into something it isn't. Nobody is suggesting that MU will be the next UAB. What people are suggesting is that MU has depth, and a good way to use depth is to try and make the court longer (press) for other teams and wear down their players.

That's it.

It's ONE style/strategy that MU can use to try and win games.

[muwarrior87]

well said 2002mualum. It is the opinion of some that having the press in our back pocket provided the right situation with our depth could be effective. But that's what it is, it's not like we're saying press 40 minutes a game or anything like that. It can be used sparingly or when we push the ball on offense to raise the tempo of play.

[Murffieus]

We tried half court zone pressure last year and it didn't work----i don't think Acker will put that over the top. I had the impression from watching that press that TC doesn't know how to teach it---it's just not  a big part of his coaching acumen----that's not a bad thing as IMO a containment defense taught properly is better----that is unless you have UAB talent and know how to teach pressure!

Teaching pressure is a specialized part of the game----very few coaches understand how or have the UAB type talent to make it effective!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

We tried half court zone pressure last year and it didn't work----i don't think Acker will put that over the top. I had the impression from watching that press that TC doesn't know how to teach it---it's just not  a big part of his coaching acumen----that's not a bad thing as IMO a containment defense taught properly is better----that is unless you have UAB talent and know how to teach pressure!

Teaching pressure is a specialized part of the game----very few coaches understand how or have the UAB type talent to make it effective!

Fair enough. You are on the record saying that you don't think MU will be able to press effectively (not even a little bit) because they don't have the athletes and TC can't teach it.

I respect your opinion... I don't share the same point of view... but you have been clear and relatively consistent with your comments.

BUT, if MU does press and it is effective... please don't claim that TC learned to teach it because he read your comments here and it motivated him teach his players how to effectively press.   

AND if MU doesn't press and/or it isn't effective, I will admit that pressing wasn't/isn't the best strategy for MU to use. I don't know everything about basketball... that's why I'm not a D1 coach.

[Phi Iota Gamma 84]

How many times do we have to hear about UAB talent.  I don't remember them in the Final Four (NCAA or NIT!!!), as a matter of fact I do not even remember them as serious threats to win Conference USA until it was neutered by the BE and I do not think they have won a title even in its weakened state.  If there is a need to "glorify" talent at least pick Kansas or UNC or a school that has been there otherwise it just sounds silly.

[augoman]

Tell you what, 'Phi', I remember them (UAB) running us off the court in the Con. USA tournament.  I remember DWade trying to bring the ball up against them and being picked clean.  I remember us having any attempt to pass against it stolen.  I remember them running Diener ragged!  We were not only eliminated, we were humiliated.

[tower912]

P I G 84, Murf sounds silly a lot.

[mviale]

The press is a great weapon - we have the talent to use it sparingly

[Murffieus]

We don't have the talent to use it-------we saw that last year when we tried it----couldn't even gain anadvantage from it against the cupcakes. So what you're saying is Acker makes the difference-----hardly-----a 5' 6" coming from the middle can be passed over easily-------then too Barro is too slow to deny or even challenge the outlet pass high, which by itself makes a press ineffective-----the defensive center is a key elemnet in a successful press!

[77ncaachamps]

Ooze is fast enough, but he doesn't have the basketball IQ or experience to catch the nuances of when the opposing team breaking down the press. He (nor any player) can't rely on their cat-like skills to react to Crean and assistants shouting assignments.

But with the right staff on the court against the right team, the press can be very effective for MU.

[Murffieus]

Maybe against the cupcakes this year----but we're going to beat them anyway----so why spend all the practice time and energy on something that won't be effective against the quality teams who know how to protect the ball ?

Now if we need the ball toward the end of the game because we're behind by 10 points with 4 minutes to go----that's a different story----but in that case what's often more effective than a conventional press is an impromtu "scrambled eggs" type approach!

[NCMUFan]

Al McGuire loved the full court press.  It seemed to me that a typical coached Al McGuire basketball game had a very close first half.  Then McGuire would put on this stifling full court press at the beginning of the second half.  The result being his superior quick players getting a number of turnovers/steals and blowing the game wide open for Marquette.  To me it seems that if you have the players and if coached correctly it would at least cause problems for good teams in regards to fatigue, reducing shot clock time, taking them out of their rhythm, set plays, etc.  We would not of beat Duke last year if not for the constant pressure we put on them resulting in turnovers and steals.  Hard to put Duke in a class as a team we would beat regardless.

[Big Papi]

We don't have the talent to use it-------we saw that last year when we tried it----couldn't even gain anadvantage from it against the cupcakes. So what you're saying is Acker makes the difference-----hardly-----a 5' 6" coming from the middle can be passed over easily-------then too Barro is too slow to deny or even challenge the outlet pass high, which by itself makes a press ineffective-----the defensive center is a key elemnet in a successful press!

THIS YEAR we are bringing in 3 athletic forwards so unless you know something more than Coach Crean does and have scouted these players and not just seen one or two video clips, DON'T SAY WE DON'T HAVE THE TALENT TO USE IT.  Last year was last year and this year is this year.  Maybe Acker is not the difference but Saunders, Mbakwe or Hazel or any combination of the four might be and since Barro is going to get some time on the bench during games, maybe that is the time we slide in Mbakwe or Hazel or Saunders at center and press the opposition.

We will find out if we have the talent to use it during the course of the year.  But as of right now, it sure does sound like Coach Crean thinks we can use it and I'll take his judgement over yours.