End of IU/KU

[warthog-driver]

Then again, some will get down on Crean regardless...

[Lennys Tap]

Sorry, but pinning this on Crean is just sour grapes. IU/UK have played a home-and-home series for what seems like forever. He wanted to continue that. Calipari apparently places more value on the marketing gimmick of Indy (and a less partisan crowd) than the risk of facing a truly hostile crowd every 2 years.

Anyone who thinks this is Marquette/Milwaukee is simply being delusional. That series should continue and should be a home-and-home...hard to get down on Crean for realizing that  

Then again, some will get down on Crean regardless...

If playing a home and home series since 2006 seems like forever then I guess you're right, but from 1991-2005 the game alternated between Louisville's Freedom Hall and Indianapolis's Dome.

[brewcity77]

If playing a home and home series since 2006 seems like forever then I guess you're right, but from 1991-2005 the game alternated between Louisville's Freedom Hall and Indianapolis's Dome.

Forgot they alternated that, but they still alternated it between Kentucky and Indiana, giving an effective home-and-home series. And I suppose it's just coincidence that on the same day IU and UK can't come to terms, UK and UNC also drop their series?

I'm not saying there isn't some blame to go to IU as well, but this is a lot more UK not wanting to play these games because they don't want to lose them than I think it is either Roy or TC not wanting the series to continue. Maybe I'm off-base, but warthog's post perfectly characterizes what I'm talking about, that some people will take a swipe at TC any chance they get, whether justified or not.

[The Lens]

A few things:

- If it was played at at neutral sites for 15 of the previous 20 seasons in KY & IN and now UK is saying lets play all in Indiana, that sounds like TC is ducking.
- That UNC-UK series had been going on for what, 5 minutes?
- Say what you will about Cal but only 1 game matters for him, the Nat'l Championship game.  Everything else is peanuts so he's not the type of coach who's rigging his sked to be able say "20 win season!"

[wojosdojo]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7886942/indiana-hoosiers-kentucky-wildcats-series-ending-venue-disagreement

Crean/IU refused to play games at Lucas Oil in Indianapolis. why? Still a home court advantage, could still guarantee student tickets and probably make more profit than in Bloomington.

One thing I've agreed with with Dickie V is that all games should be played in a basketball venue. Glad to see Crean not give Kentucky what they want.

[GGGG]

The old Hoosier Dome and Freedom Hall neutral sites were always 50/50 crowd wise.  The Lucas Oil site would be the same way - no real home court advantage for IU.

They divided the stands in half....half would be blue...half in red.  The line ran pretty much down the center of the court.  I went to one at the Hoosier Dome eons ago.  It was very impressive.

That being said, college basketball should be played on campus.

[Lennys Tap]

Forgot they alternated that, but they still alternated it between Kentucky and Indiana, giving an effective home-and-home series.

And now Kentucky is willing to play ALL the games in Indianapolis if that's what IU wants.

[Hoopaloop]

That display is an embarrassment. A Sweet 16 t-shirt? Really? At Indiana? It's starting down there.

Ending this rivalry is Crean's version of pulling a George Constanza and leaving the room after uttering a memorable line. Looks like he's feeling his oats a little. He better back it up after Indiana turned down those paydays.

A t-shirt for winning a regular season game.  This is an embarrassment.  Wait, on closer look, Kentucky produced a t-shirt for beating UNC in the regular season and sells a t-shirt?  How embarrassing!!!  What are they doing?  Descpicable.  They need to act like a blue blood program like Marquette.  

Here we have two of the most prestigious programs in the nation choosing how they honor what is most precious to them, the game of basketball, and yet we have some of our fans deciding how these blueblood programs should celebrate.  Maybe if MU honored basketball and embraced it in the same way, we could be more like them.   Your act is fun to watch.


http://blog.wildcatwearhouse.com/2011/12/1-nation-1-team-1-blue/

[GGGG]

And now Kentucky is willing to play ALL the games in Indianapolis if that's what IU wants.

But that wouldn't give IU any advantage.  Believe me...Kentucky fans would stream up here by the thousands.  Completely neutral site.

[Lennys Tap]

The old Hoosier Dome and Freedom Hall neutral sites were always 50/50 crowd wise.  The Lucas Oil site would be the same way - no real home court advantage for IU.

They divided the stands in half....half would be blue...half in red.  The line ran pretty much down the center of the court.  I went to one at the Hoosier Dome eons ago.  It was very impressive.

That being said, college basketball should be played on campus.

News flash! Money is involved. Kentucky wants to play in a larger venue and doesn't care whether it's in Indy or Louisville.

Should MU move their games out of their off campus facility to the AL?

[Aughnanure]

Playing basketball in football stadiums is the worst.

[Golden Avalanche]

A few things:

- If it was played at at neutral sites for 15 of the previous 20 seasons in KY & IN and now UK is saying lets play all in Indiana, that sounds like TC is ducking.
- That UNC-UK series had been going on for what, 5 minutes?
- Say what you will about Cal but only 1 game matters for him, the Nat'l Championship game.  Everything else is peanuts so he's not the type of coach who's rigging his sked to be able say "20 win season!"

That's the exact point on both sides.

Cal runs an NBDL franchise. He won't do a thing that doesn't promote him or his program they way HE wants it to be promoted (fair enough). But when you position yourself as the Evil Empire, and then duck games that will test the Evilness of your Empire, it doesn't paint a positive light. You can't be the villain and at the same time control every aspect. It doesn't fit the narrative.

[GGGG]

News flash! Money is involved. Kentucky wants to play in a larger venue and doesn't care whether it's in Indy or Louisville.

News flash!  IU's motivations aren't necessarily UK's motivations.

Should MU move their games out of their off campus facility to the AL?

Don't be such a pedant.  

[Hoopaloop]

If playing a home and home series since 2006 seems like forever then I guess you're right, but from 1991-2005 the game alternated between Louisville's Freedom Hall and Indianapolis's Dome.

Prior to that, the games were on campus.  They brought them back in 2006 and people were thrilled.  Columnists wrote about the games back where they belonged, on campus.  Why are you ignoring the long history of where the games are played?  The 15 years at neutral sites were the exception, not the rule.

From 1969 to 1991 the game was on campus.  23 games

From 1992 to 2006 the games were on a neutral site. 15 games

Since 2007, games back on campus.  5 games

Looks to me like more games played on campus then not on campus

Both sides to blame, but after watching the atmosphere on tv of UK vs IU this past season, I would want the game on campus if I were IU as well.

In other news, UK now has said the North Carolina game, as well, won't be played.  Sure looks like Coach Cal is ducking games.

Sorry guys but Iu/uk has bern a tradition forever.  Usually has always been played at a neutral court.  Considering what crean did with the MU schedule ... That is we played Nooooooooo one precon.  Is it really surprising that he is doing this at Iu??

Also Uk beating Iu helps them get indiana kids,  tommy naismiths image would be tarnished losing recruits n games to uk every year.

The fans n the players are the losers in this, but since when do they matter in the tom crean glory ride

Incorrect, usually the game has been played on campus. Your hatred has you by the balls again.  In the last two days UK is now not playing IU and UNC.  Who is ducking who?

Thrilled, no, but the dollars would probably determine where the game was.  With the proposed switch to Lucas both would have been in for a bigger payday, which is what makes this most surprising to me.

IU and UK aren't struggling for money.  Sometimes tradition, what is right for their program, etc, are more important.  One of the dumbest moves Crean ever made was playing Southern Miss at a neutral site up in Green Bay.  That was for money and state exposure and it burned him.  I'm sure he is learning from his mistakes.

[Hoopaloop]

A few things:

- If it was played at at neutral sites for 15 of the previous 20 seasons in KY & IN and now UK is saying lets play all in Indiana, that sounds like TC is ducking.
- That UNC-UK series had been going on for what, 5 minutes?
- Say what you will about Cal but only 1 game matters for him, the Nat'l Championship game.  Everything else is peanuts so he's not the type of coach who's rigging his sked to be able say "20 win season!"

The UNC-UK series going on longer than a decade against the two winningest programs in the nation.  Not 5 minutes.

More games between UK-IU played on campus than neutral sites. 

I don't think Crean has to worry about 20 win seasons anymore.  He has it rolling down there much to the anger and disbelief of many a MU poster.

[Hoopaloop]

News flash! Money is involved. Kentucky wants to play in a larger venue and doesn't care whether it's in Indy or Louisville.

Should MU move their games out of their off campus facility to the AL?

So money didn't matter the last 6 years, but now it matters moving forward because UK's basketball fortunes are in such disrepair?   

MU isn't UK or IU, we've all established that here.  Your analogy is wrong.

Basketball games should be played in basketball venues. 

Show me the last great game with great atmosphere during the regular season that was played in a football stadium?   The great games, with the students rushing the court, the fans going crazy are games like Duke-UNC (basketball arena), IU-UK last year, UW-MU.  Can you imagine a UW-MU game at Miller Park?  Yeah, we would make a lot more money and there would be 30K UW fans there and 20K MU fans.  But we would make more money.   

Games in domes, on aircraft carries, etc suck the excitement right out of them.

[Lennys Tap]

News flash!  IU's motivations aren't necessarily UK's motivations.
 

Think  IU would move their game vs University of Maryland Baltimore County to Indy if they were guaranteed 65,000 fannies in the seats? Don't be naive.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The defensiveness of a PURDUE fan over the end of this IU/UK rivalry is quite bizarre!

This would be akin to Chicos and his wife having a dinner party and having their guests watch Nickelodeon instead of Disney.

[brewcity77]

Okay, fine Lennys...Tom Crean is the epitome of evil and everything bad in college basketball is solely due to him. If only he would go away forever, then everything in the world would be perfect. Calipari is also a pure and sacred virgin and a fine and upstanding program like Kentucky that has never attracted the eye of the NCAA rules committees couldn't possibly be at all to blame for any part in what are clearly the wrongdoings of the most heinous man in the world, Osama bin Laden's role model, Tanned Tommy Crean.

[GGGG]

Think  IU would move their game vs University of Maryland Baltimore County to Indy if they were guaranteed 65,000 fannies in the seats? Don't be naive.

Really?  They could get 65,000 fannies in the seats for a bunch of games right now.  How come they don't do it regularly?  Why don't they host both IU / Purdue games in the dome?  

The answer is because people would rather have them on campus...the donors who buy the prime seats especially.

Naive is thinking that paid attendance is where the money is made.  IU makes a great deal more off television revenue, and through donations for the prime Assembly Hall seats. 

[Coach Norman Dale]

Tickets were to be divided in half per Calipari.

This is how it was done in previous neutral site games between IU and UK -- venue seating literally split down the middle in game I attended at Hoosier a/k/a RCA Dome.

[Lennys Tap]

Okay, fine Lennys...Tom Crean is the epitome of evil and everything bad in college basketball is solely due to him. If only he would go away forever, then everything in the world would be perfect. Calipari is also a pure and sacred virgin and a fine and upstanding program like Kentucky that has never attracted the eye of the NCAA rules committees couldn't possibly be at all to blame for any part in what are clearly the wrongdoings of the most heinous man in the world, Osama bin Laden's role model, Tanned Tommy Crean.

Brew, you're a great asset to Scoop. Lots of good information and well thought out opinion. But you based a rant on "facts" that weren't. Sorry if my pointing out that inconvenient truth makes you angry.

[Coach Norman Dale]

Thrilled, no, but the dollars would probably determine where the game was.  With the proposed switch to Lucas both would have been in for a bigger payday, which is what makes this most surprising to me.

Not necessarily a bigger payday, or at least that much of a bigger payday -- the costs of the facility rental and staffing/operation expenses are not insignificant.

[brewcity77]

Brew, you're a great asset to Scoop. Lots of good information and well thought out opinion. But you based a rant on "facts" that weren't. Sorry if my pointing out that inconvenient truth makes you angry.

I admitted I forgot they played "neutral" site games, I'm fine with that, I just don't get this obsessive need to continue to bash Crean. It was old 2 years ago. At some point, I'd think you would realize he's gone and just let it go.

What...did you date Joanie in high school before he stole her away? Why does everything involving Crean have to turn into a bash Crean session? Why does everything involving Crean even have to show up here? Honestly, I think some people care more about bashing Crean than they do what's going on with our own program. I just don't get it.

[Lennys Tap]

The answer is because people would rather have them on campus...the donors who buy the prime seats especially.

That's not what TC says. It's all about the students, and they wouldn't be able to afford the 45 mile trip to Indy.