Marquette Offers Diamond Stone

[Dr. Blackheart]

The question is should we be using the NCAA minimum standards or aspire to be doing things better. 

This is why the graduation rates that people here throw around are not necessarily indicative of everything. 

As Blackheart asked earlier about Purdue.  The Boilers have 7 current players as All Academic Big Ten and essentially blew their game against Kansas (the national runner-up) to go to the Sweet 16.  MU has zero All Academic Big East players.  Last year we had one, a walk on in Frozena.

When I read some of the comments by those on the panic side of the fence, they seem to think that it is impossible for Marquette to win at a high level with quality student athletes, even with higher standards?

You left out that Purdue also had players arrested multiple times and thrown off the team...they also only graduate 50% of their players, like Wisky, but better than Ohio State.  Their predominant major is Leadership and Supervision.  As I stated in the PM, MU graduates players.  There are few schools blameless, including Gtown and SLU.

[Silkk the Shaka]

As usual, you are mischaracterizing and exaggerating.

It might help if we go over what has been said:

1.Before this semester Marquette's eligibility standards for student athletes matched that of most of our competition (UW, for example). I believe this has been accepted as documented fact.
2.It has been reported by several sources that those standards (which have been in place for quite some time) have been deemed as too low by Fr Pilarz and the BOT. It's even been speculated that the board wants to initiate the new and higher standards retroactively, putting some sudent athletes in jeopardy this semester even though they have been operating under and are ok by the old standards. I don't know if this is fact, but if true many here have a problem with this from a fairness standpoint. I agree with them.
3.The rest of the debate centers around how or whether tougher admission and eligibility standards would impact the basketball program and how much basketball means to the university. I'd answer a)yes and b)a lot. If overnight the Wisconsins, Syracuses, Floridas, etc.,(all of whom have more difficult admission requirements for "regular" students than MU, by the way) can recruit basketball players who are off limits to Marquette it would be devastating. People laugh when it's suggested we'll become SLU, but remember we WERE SLU before Fr Wild LOWERED our past and present standards and gave the OK to prop 48 Dwyane Wade. It's the height of arrogance to think we couldn't be back there quickly by trying to be something we're not nor have ever been. I'm comfortable competing with schools like Wisconsin, Indiana, Purdue, etc on a level playing field, but not on one where they can recruit and keep eligible top players who won't qualify for Marquette. As an alum and a supporter of the program, that scenario would be Hiroshima (don't take it literally, please) to me.

Thanks for saving me a buttload of typing. Nail on the head.

[MarquetteDano]

I don't know why anyone would be questioning Stone's academics anyways because if Bo Ryan and Wisconsin offered him, by defintion he must be a rocket scientist.  Probably would gradute in three years.   Maybe two if he really tries at it. 

[Hoopaloop]

You left out that Purdue also had players arrested multiple times and thrown off the team...they also only graduate 50% of their players, like Wisky, but better than Ohio State.  Their predominant major is Leadership and Supervision.  As I stated in the PM, MU graduates players.  There are few schools blameless, including Gtown and SLU.

Respectfully, I did, but the mods blew up that thread.  Maybe Hilltopper can find that entry and restore it, but I addressed that all teams and coaches have issues, where it becomes problematic is when it is repetitive in a short amount of time.  I also addressed the Purdue dismissals, as well, since Painter dismissed them from the team.  He gave several of those guys a second chance and they blew it again.  At some point you can't keep giving people multiple chances because they never learn.

The predominant major for Purdue basketball players Organizational Leadership and Supervision which is akin to labor relations, human resource management and similar programs in Marquette's business school.   They also have engineering, education, business, etc majors.  7 All Big Ten Academic players this year alone is nothing to sneeze at.

Marquette's communications school as produced some really great talent over the years. It is where our basketball players tend to settle for any number of reasons.  Ultimately you get out of it what you put into it.

With all the resources MU puts in for educational tutors and such, I am confident our guys will be fine.

[Hoopaloop]

So how is going from "Black athletes will have less opportunity at Marquette" to you claiming that MU will only be able to recruit white guys with 3.5s not a mischaracterization and an exaggeration?

My post was exactly that, a highlight of the gross exaggerations of our fans that we're doomed as a program.  Repeating exactly what they had said.

As usual, you are mischaracterizing and exaggerating.

It might help if we go over what has been said:

1.Before this semester Marquette's eligibility standards for student athletes matched that of most of our competition (UW, for example). I believe this has been accepted as documented fact.
2.It has been reported by several sources that those standards (which have been in place for quite some time) have been deemed as too low by Fr Pilarz and the BOT. It's even been speculated that the board wants to initiate the new and higher standards retroactively, putting some sudent athletes in jeopardy this semester even though they have been operating under and are ok by the old standards. I don't know if this is fact, but if true many here have a problem with this from a fairness standpoint. I agree with them.
3.The rest of the debate centers around how or whether tougher admission and eligibility standards would impact the basketball program and how much basketball means to the university. I'd answer a)yes and b)a lot. If overnight the Wisconsins, Syracuses, Floridas, etc.,(all of whom have more difficult admission requirements for "regular" students than MU, by the way) can recruit basketball players who are off limits to Marquette it would be devastating. People laugh when it's suggested we'll become SLU, but remember we WERE SLU before Fr Wild LOWERED our past and present standards and gave the OK to prop 48 Dwyane Wade. It's the height of arrogance to think we couldn't be back there quickly by trying to be something we're not nor have ever been. I'm comfortable competing with schools like Wisconsin, Indiana, Purdue, etc on a level playing field, but not on one where they can recruit and keep eligible top players who won't qualify for Marquette. As an alum and a supporter of the program, that scenario would be Hiroshima (don't take it literally, please) to me.

1) If we all had a nickle for the sourced material here that turned out to be completely BS over the months and years, we would be richer than we are.  Can we take a step back to see what actually happens.
2) Suppose the rumors are true, some of our competition has higher standards than us already academically.  Notre Dame.  They beat us.  Vanderbilt.  They destroyed us.  Stanford.  Don't need to tell you what they did to us last time they played us.  Where I have trouble with the panic crowd here is that you you are all jumping to conclusions that MU can't win without increasing the standards slight.  That is all it is, a slight increase.
3) If it is retroactive, I would have considerable concern about fairness as you and others have stated.
4) I have more faith in Buzz than you do apparently.  He values education and he is a great recruiter.  If some or all of these rumors are true, than Buzz will have to recruit differently.  
5) Wisconsin may be adhering to the same standards as the NCAA minimums, but in the last few years their players have been well above those standards and they are doing just fine.

I don't know why anyone would be questioning Stone's academics anyways because if Bo Ryan and Wisconsin offered him, by defintion he must be a rocket scientist.  Probably would gradute in three years.   Maybe two if he really tries at it. 

No one that I can see is questioning Stone's academics.  The point was that the claims that MU will only be able to go after white players with 3.5 GPAs as some here grossly exaggerated yesterday is wrong.

[tower912]

What interests me about this offer is that Bo offered a freshman.    This means a couple of things.   1.   This kid appears to be the real deal.   2.    Bo knows it and wants to get in on the ground floor with  an athletic big.   3.   The badger board is going to be doing some serious yoga trying to show how this is a great idea by bo and isn't a direct contradiction to the idea that he doesn't offer players until after their sophomore year.     
                   Nothing would make me happier than Buzz landing a bunch of Milwaukee kids and taking that team deep in the dance, a la the Flintstones a few years back with Izzo.     (A) Because it means that Buzz is sticking around.  (B)  It means the team made a deep run in the tourney.   (C)  Watching the hissy fit that would ensue in buckyland if Buzz wins with a bunch of Wisconsin kids.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Respectfully, I did, but the mods blew up that thread.  Maybe Hilltopper can find that entry and restore it, but I addressed that all teams and coaches have issues, where it becomes problematic is when it is repetitive in a short amount of time.  I also addressed the Purdue dismissals, as well, since Painter dismissed them from the team.  He gave several of those guys a second chance and they blew it again.  At some point you can't keep giving people multiple chances because they never learn.

The predominant major for Purdue basketball players Organizational Leadership and Supervision which is akin to labor relations, human resource management and similar programs in Marquette's business school.   They also have engineering, education, business, etc majors.  7 All Big Ten Academic players this year alone is nothing to sneeze at.

Marquette's communications school as produced some really great talent over the years. It is where our basketball players tend to settle for any number of reasons.  Ultimately you get out of it what you put into it.

With all the resources MU puts in for educational tutors and such, I am confident our guys will be fine.

Thanks for this fair assessment

[warthog-driver]

This guy's name also has porn star potential...

That guy really knows how to handle the rock!

[NersEllenson]

The predominant major for Purdue basketball players Organizational Leadership and Supervision which is akin to labor relations, human resource management and similar programs in Marquette's business school.   They also have engineering, education, business, etc majors.  7 All Big Ten Academic players this year alone is nothing to sneeze at.

Marquette's communications school as produced some really great talent over the years. It is where our basketball players tend to settle for any number of reasons.  Ultimately you get out of it what you put into it.

I wonder why the majority of Purdue's Academic All Big 10 members (and rest of squad) tend to settle in the Organizational Leadership and Supervision major?  Of the 7 All Big Ten Academic guys - it appears you have 6 of 7 traditionals - 1 of whom isn't even listed on the Purdue roster (John Hart):  Dru Anthrop,  D.J. Byrd, John Hart, Robbie Hummel, Lewis Jackson, Sandi Marcius, Ryne Smith.  Whatever the case, this is nothing to sneeze at, and I wish MU could be more like Purdue.  I'm embarrassed at the 91% graduation rate of our men's basketball team, most of whom graduate from the College of Communication.

[warthog-driver]

I wonder why the majority of Purdue's Academic All Big 10 members

IS Hoop maintaining the fiction that he is NOT The bail Bondsman? Because The Cheek went to IU and not PU

[Hoopaloop]

I wonder why the majority of Purdue's Academic All Big 10 members (and rest of squad) tend to settle in the Organizational Leadership and Supervision major?  Of the 7 All Big Ten Academic guys - it appears you have 6 of 7 traditionals - 1 of whom isn't even listed on the Purdue roster (John Hart):  Dru Anthrop,  D.J. Byrd, John Hart, Robbie Hummel, Lewis Jackson, Sandi Marcius, Ryne Smith.  Whatever the case, this is nothing to sneeze at, and I wish MU could be more like Purdue.  I'm embarrassed at the 91% graduation rate of our men's basketball team, most of whom graduate from the College of Communication.

You seem a bit sensitive because you happen to be a graduate of the school of communication. 

OLS major, from what I understand, is predominantly labor relations, Human Resource management, OSHA type work.  Many of those things are taught in MU's business school.  OLS isn't a sluff major is my point.


What strikes me is that we've had 1 player in three years on the Big East All –Academic roster.  Rob Frozena, a walk on.  Purdue had 7 this year alone. PU missed getting to the Sweet 16 because we choked in the last minute to Kansas.  We had less talent than MU, but got nearly as far and one could argue we should have gone equally as far.  We lost to the NCAA Runner-up meaning we were playing high level competition.

Teams can be successful with high quality academic kids despite the negativity around here that it relegate us to obscurity.

[NersEllenson]

You seem a bit sensitive because you happen to be a graduate of the school of communication. 

OLS major, from what I understand, is predominantly labor relations, Human Resource management, OSHA type work.  Many of those things are taught in MU's business school.  OLS isn't a sluff major is my point.


What strikes me is that we've had 1 player in three years on the Big East All –Academic roster.  Rob Frozena, a walk on.  Purdue had 7 this year alone. PU missed getting to the Sweet 16 because we choked in the last minute to Kansas.  We had less talent than MU, but got nearly as far and one could argue we should have gone equally as far.  We lost to the NCAA Runner-up meaning we were playing high level competition.

Teams can be successful with high quality academic kids despite the negativity around here that it relegate us to obscurity.

And how would you know that I'm a graduate of the College of Communication Hoop...uh..I mean Chicos?!!  Can't wait to hear this explanation.  Anyway, Robbie Hummel and Lewis Jackson were the two players worth a lick (athletically) on that team that were among the 7 academic all stars...

On another note, do you happen to have a bumper sticker on your car that reads:  My college basketball team has 7 Academic All Conference Students?  If not, perhaps you could start a business for yourself and print some stickers - I'm sure they'd sell like hotcakes because everyone cares about the academic prowess of their college basketball/football team...

[forgetful]

You seem a bit sensitive because you happen to be a graduate of the school of communication. 

OLS major, from what I understand, is predominantly labor relations, Human Resource management, OSHA type work.  Many of those things are taught in MU's business school.  OLS isn't a sluff major is my point.


What strikes me is that we've had 1 player in three years on the Big East All –Academic roster.  Rob Frozena, a walk on.  Purdue had 7 this year alone. PU missed getting to the Sweet 16 because we choked in the last minute to Kansas.  We had less talent than MU, but got nearly as far and one could argue we should have gone equally as far.  We lost to the NCAA Runner-up meaning we were playing high level competition.

Teams can be successful with high quality academic kids despite the negativity around here that it relegate us to obscurity.

I would consider these pretty sluff major-ish.

[Hoopaloop]

And how would you know that I'm a graduate of the College of Communication Hoop...uh..I mean Chicos?!!  Can't wait to hear this explanation.  Anyway, Robbie Hummel and Lewis Jackson were the two players worth a lick (athletically) on that team that were among the 7 academic all stars...

On another note, do you happen to have a bumper sticker on your car that reads:  My college basketball team has 7 Academic All Conference Students?  If not, perhaps you could start a business for yourself and print some stickers - I'm sure they'd sell like hotcakes because everyone cares about the academic prowess of their college basketball/football team...

Is the Public Relations department still part of the school of Communications?  You said you majored in PR so unless the PR Department moved to a different school, you graduated from the Communications school. 

No bumper stickers on my vehicles about Purdue.  No front page headline articles in the Chicago Tribune multiple times either.

[jmayer1]

Is the Public Relations department still part of the school of Communications?  You said you majored in PR so unless the PR Department moved to a different school, you graduated from the Communications school. 

No bumper stickers on my vehicles about Purdue.  No front page headline articles in the Chicago Tribune multiple times either.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7586637/purdue-dismisses-kelsey-barlow-suspends-dj-byrd-following-bar-incident

http://www.theindychannel.com/sports/30482733/detail.html

http://www.fox59.com/news/crime/wxin-dj-byrd-purdue-basketball-guard-arrested-on-public-intoxication-charge-20120217,0,5538021.column

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2012/02/purdue-dj-byrd-arrest-public-intoxication/1#.T6MAclJgowA

[jficke13]

I'm not exactly sure why it's an issue, but I was a PR major, and it was a joke. A comically easy waste of time. All of the PR classes taught the exact same things that the intro to PR course taught. I have never, and never will, refer to my undergraduate as anything less than fake-college.

Don't get me wrong, it was a heck of a lot of fun. If I had wanted to I could have made a career in PR, but that had everything to do with the internships that I landed.

[BrewCity83]

It is much easier to make academic all conference in the Big 10 than in the Big East just by virtue of there being fewer members in the conference.

[NersEllenson]

Is the Public Relations department still part of the school of Communications?  You said you majored in PR so unless the PR Department moved to a different school, you graduated from the Communications school. 

No bumper stickers on my vehicles about Purdue.  No front page headline articles in the Chicago Tribune multiple times either.

Out of curiousity, where did I say I majored in PR?  Can you please repost for me?

[Hoopaloop]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7586637/purdue-dismisses-kelsey-barlow-suspends-dj-byrd-following-bar-incident

http://www.theindychannel.com/sports/30482733/detail.html

http://www.fox59.com/news/crime/wxin-dj-byrd-purdue-basketball-guard-arrested-on-public-intoxication-charge-20120217,0,5538021.column

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2012/02/purdue-dj-byrd-arrest-public-intoxication/1#.T6MAclJgowA

Yes, and those players were kicked off the team.  Those issues happen at MU, IU, PU, UK, KU, UCLA, fill in the blank.  Not exactly in the same ball park as the treatment MU received front page of the Chicago Tribune twice.  Nor did those incidents make the top stories in the news either. Of course, there isn't a vast right wing conspiracy against PU in Indy like there is against MU in Milwaukee, so that explains it.

[Hoopaloop]

It is much easier to make academic all conference in the Big 10 than in the Big East just by virtue of there being fewer members in the conference.

Incorrect.  Making an all-academic team in a conference is not based on limited number of slots.  That is the case to make it as a player, but not academically.  You need a minimum GPA and a letter winner.  There is no cap on the number of winners.

Criteria - same GPA in both conferences

To be eligible for Academic All-Big Ten selection, student-athletes must be letterwinners who are in at least their second academic year at their institution and carry a cumulative grade point average (GPA) of 3.0 or higher.

To be eligible for the honor, a nominee must have competed in a BIG EAST-sponsored sport, attained a minimum grade-point average of 3.00 for the preceding academic year, and completed a minimum of two consecutive semesters or three consecutive quarters of academic work, with a total of 18 semester or 27 quarter credits, not including remedial courses.

[Lennys Tap]

Out of curiousity, where did I say I majored in PR?  Can you please repost for me?

Chicos was legendary for digging up personal info on posters and publishing it on Scoop. Just sayin'

[jmayer1]

No front page headline articles in the Chicago Tribune multiple times either.

False. The arrest of Byrd and the subsequent suspension/dismissal of Byrd/Barlow was front page news (not in the Chicago Tribune since it's isn't a regional school) on ESPN.

Yes, and those players were kicked off the team.  Those issues happen at MU, IU, PU, UK, KU, UCLA, fill in the blank.  Not exactly in the same ball park as the treatment MU received front page of the Chicago Tribune twice.  Nor did those incidents make the top stories in the news either. Of course, there isn't a vast right wing conspiracy against PU in Indy like there is against MU in Milwaukee, so that explains it.

False. Byrd was suspended 1 game and then resumed playing the next game. Of course, he was an academic all Big XX so maybe that makes up for it!!

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/41901/dj-byrd

Please let me know the next time a MU player is arrested (not just cited) and jailed.

[NersEllenson]

Chicos was legendary for digging up personal info on posters and publishing it on Scoop. Just sayin'

Indeed..further evidence Hoop and Chicos are one in the same. Funny I've never posted my major here, yet he knows I majored in PR?  Hmm. How does Hoop even know who I am/my name to then go research me/my major??  Bizarre.

[wadesworld]

Indeed..further evidence Hoop and Chicos are one in the same. Funny I've never posted my major here, yet he knows I majored in PR?  Hmm. How does Hoop even know who I am/my name to then go research me/my major??  Bizarre.

He also loved the bolded and tealed font.  Never seen anyone else do it.

[Hoopaloop]

Indeed..further evidence Hoop and Chicos are one in the same. Funny I've never posted my major here, yet he knows I majored in PR?  Hmm. How does Hoop even know who I am/my name to then go research me/my major??  Bizarre.

Yes, you did.  I don't need to find it as it was confirmed for me as well.  Last weekend you used real names of some posters here and one of them was more than excited to confirm for me you were a PR major.  No shame.