Way too early Top 25

[jesmu84]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7767401/indiana-hoosiers-continue-moving-2012-13

#1 IU
#2 Louisville
#17 ND
#21 Wisconsin

Cincy and Marquette in the "next 15"

[brewcity77]

I'd disagree with a lot of this. Louisville is definitely #1, and he's really overrating NC State in comparison to Duke. Sorry, but even without Rivers and one Plumlee the Blue Devils are still favorites in the ACC. 3 wins in March don't make you a top-6 team the next year. I also think MU should be ranked, probably at 23, though I'd have KSU unranked and UW behind us.

[Hards Alumni]

I'd disagree with a lot of this. Louisville is definitely #1, and he's really overrating NC State in comparison to Duke. Sorry, but even without Rivers and one Plumlee the Blue Devils are still favorites in the ACC. 3 wins in March don't make you a top-6 team the next year. I also think MU should be ranked, probably at 23, though I'd have KSU unranked and UW behind us.

Hard to rank us in the top 25 when we lose our top two scorers and our top rebounder... not to mention all of our leadership.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but do you really think that Junior is a leader?

[damuts222]

Pre-season rankings mean squat

[jesmu84]

Pre-season rankings mean squat

in college bball? probably true. in college football, preseason rankings can have a HUGE effect on the end of season standings.

[Tugg Speedman]

Do I need to remind you how useless these polls are?  

Go back and look at what Katz said a year ago

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=6513197

Some examples
6. Connecticut
8. Memphis
10. Arizona
14. Alabama
17. Pittsburgh
18. Kansas
20. Texas A&M
24. George Mason

[Goose]

Agree the early polls mean nothing but sure would be fired up if MU was on top of the list.

[NavinRJohnson]

Looking at that list, the only conclusion I can draw is that it looks lie a very bad year for college basketball? I don't see a great or even potentially great team in the bunch. I might be ready to put MU back in the Sweet 16 next year.

[Les Nessman]

in college bball? probably true. in college football, preseason rankings can have a HUGE effect on the end of season standings.

Who's talking about football?

[brewcity77]

Hard to rank us in the top 25 when we lose our top two scorers and our top rebounder... not to mention all of our leadership.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but do you really think that Junior is a leader?

I think our team will be much better than most of us are expecting, which I've been saying for months now. I think Junior is the guy who settles the team without being a vocal leader, while I think Jamil takes the primary leadership role for the next two years. I also think we'll have 4-5 guys scoring in double figures, which will make us even harder to gameplan for because you don't just focus on Jae and DJO and call it a day.

I know that expectations will be down because of what we lose, but this is a team of great role-players. I think Van, Jamil, and Mayo are all ready to be stars and Gardner/Otule, if both healthy, will be one of the best 1-2 center punches in the Big East, if not the nation. We might take a small step back from last year, but I still see this team winning 25 games by the time all is said and done and being ranked most of the year, especially after they come home with the Maui Classic title.

[NavinRJohnson]

I know that expectations will be down because of what we lose, but this is a team of great role-players. I think Van, Jamil, and Mayo are all ready to be stars and Gardner/Otule, if both healthy, will be one of the best 1-2 center punches in the Big East, if not the nation. We might take a small step back from last year, but I still see this team winning 25 games by the time all is said and done and being ranked most of the year, especially after they come home with the Maui Classic title.

I completely agree with this. I fully expect MU to have a very nice year next year. We have plenty of guys who are ready to step up (Blue, Mayo, and JWilson topping that list). The scoring will be more balanced, and I think we will score plenty of points.

[Hards Alumni]

I think our team will be much better than most of us are expecting, which I've been saying for months now. I think Junior is the guy who settles the team without being a vocal leader, while I think Jamil takes the primary leadership role for the next two years. I also think we'll have 4-5 guys scoring in double figures, which will make us even harder to gameplan for because you don't just focus on Jae and DJO and call it a day.

I know that expectations will be down because of what we lose, but this is a team of great role-players. I think Van, Jamil, and Mayo are all ready to be stars and Gardner/Otule, if both healthy, will be one of the best 1-2 center punches in the Big East, if not the nation. We might take a small step back from last year, but I still see this team winning 25 games by the time all is said and done and being ranked most of the year, especially after they come home with the Maui Classic title.

Look, I'm not down on the team at all, I am just saying that from an outside perspective it is hard to rank us in the top 25.  I am actually excited for next year.

[dgies9156]

I think our team will be much better than most of us are expecting, which I've been saying for months now. I think Junior is the guy who settles the team without being a vocal leader, while I think Jamil takes the primary leadership role for the next two years. I also think we'll have 4-5 guys scoring in double figures, which will make us even harder to gameplan for because you don't just focus on Jae and DJO and call it a day.

I know that expectations will be down because of what we lose, but this is a team of great role-players. I think Van, Jamil, and Mayo are all ready to be stars and Gardner/Otule, if both healthy, will be one of the best 1-2 center punches in the Big East, if not the nation. We might take a small step back from last year, but I still see this team winning 25 games by the time all is said and done and being ranked most of the year, especially after they come home with the Maui Classic title.

+100000000000000

I agree with my ole friend Brew.

Our leading rebounder was Jae because Chris was out most of the season with an injury. He'll be back and we'll be strong in the middle.

Our defense will be more rounded and better. Todd Mayo and Jamil will step up... they're both under the radar now. I agree Junior needs to step up and I'm confident he will. That leaves Vander and there's nothing but upside for him. If Vander works on his shot and improves, my God will we be good.

[BCHoopster]

Early top 25's are about returning players and scorers, MU lost 2 good ones.  Secondly, who knows how Otule will return as, same as before, lost a step, can not jump anymore, basically
a question mark, the offense is a question mark, how are they going to mesh, one thing we do know is that MU will have 13 or 14 players to choice from.

[Warrior3211]

I'd disagree with a lot of this. Louisville is definitely #1, and he's really overrating NC State in comparison to Duke. Sorry, but even without Rivers and one Plumlee the Blue Devils are still favorites in the ACC. 3 wins in March don't make you a top-6 team the next year. I also think MU should be ranked, probably at 23, though I'd have KSU unranked and UW behind us.

I agree with you here, but even so, three wins in March is a huge start. Plus replacing two seniors with 3 McDonald's All-Americans is also a good start. If those new guys pan out then they most certainly can be a top 15 maybe top 10 team.

I was disappointed to see we weren't even in the Top 25. For a team that never fell out of the top 25 all season and made it to the Sweet 16, I thought we'd get a little more respect. People that don't follow close enough just see DJO and Crowder leaving, I suppose.

[wadesworld]

+100000000000000

I agree with my ole friend Brew.

Our leading rebounder was Jae because Chris was out most of the season with an injury. He'll be back and we'll be strong in the middle.

Our defense will be more rounded and better. Todd Mayo and Jamil will step up... they're both under the radar now. I agree Junior needs to step up and I'm confident he will. That leaves Vander and there's nothing but upside for him. If Vander works on his shot and improves, my God will we be good.

OTule's injury had absolutely nothing to do with Jae being our leading rebounder.  He was averaging a career high in rebounds this season through his 8 games.  That was at 4.4 rebounds per game.  Jae averaged 8.1 rebounds per game.  Not only did Jae see a lot more minutes to get more opportunities to rebound the ball, but Jae was a far, far better rebounder than Chris.

[brewcity77]

Look, I'm not down on the team at all, I am just saying that from an outside perspective it is hard to rank us in the top 25.  I am actually excited for next year.

Well, I'd certainly put us ahead of Missouri, who lost far more than we did. I'd also put us ahead of VCU, who may return most of their team, but that's a team that was never ranked this year and only won one game in the tourney (whereas we return most of our team and won two). I also like us over Wisconsin, but Katz is a Badger, so it doesn't surprise me. And while I wouldn't say we're lights out better, I don't see any more claim for K-State, SD State, or Tennessee to be ranked than us.

Regardless, it's a way-too-early poll, as he said, but while we lose two stars, that's all we lose, and the guys taking those roles have shown they are likely up for the task. And with Buzz's track record, honestly, how could anyone not think his team is going to be very good again?

[bamamarquettefan]

The scary thing for me was that i was running all the Value Add projections to put out the preseason top 100 when I saw this come out with Indiana #1.

Then later in the night i completed my run, and Indiana came out #1.

Of course there are always going to be a decent number of teams that are way off (Pitt), just like the only preseason All-American who was an All-American for the season was Sullinger.  But it gives a great starting point, and for example the Sweet 16 I ran last June just had one complete dud (Pitt), and one team that didn't perform nearly to projection (Duke), but you guys should really be reading the Value Add top 100 - who is this Katz guy anyway :-)

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2012/04/projecting-2012-13-part-4-of-4.html

[MarquetteDano]

The scary thing for me was that i was running all the Value Add projections to put out the preseason top 100 when I saw this come out with Indiana #1.

Then later in the night i completed my run, and Indiana came out #1.

Indiana is going to be good, no doubt.  If you look throughout history the pre-season number one team has at least 4-5 NBA players on the team.  Unless Indiana's freshmen class has three NBA players in it, I am not seeing how Indiana is the #1 team in the nation.  Top 5?  Sure.  Not number one.

[Benny B]

What???  Is Lunardi's 2013 Bracketology not available yet?

[The Equalizer]

Do I need to remind you how useless these polls are?  

Go back and look at what Katz said a year ago

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=6513197

Some examples
6. Connecticut
8. Memphis
10. Arizona
14. Alabama
17. Pittsburgh
18. Kansas
20. Texas A&M
24. George Mason

Useless?  He had 10 of the eventual Sweet 16 teams identified almost a year in advance.  

1. UNC
2. Kentucky
3. Ohio State
4. Syracuse
9. Louisville
11. Wisconsin
12. Florida
13. Marquette
16. Baylor

He had 2 more listed just outside, and a 3rd in his "teams to consider":
18. Kansas
19. Cincnnati
Others to consider: Michigan State

Who'd he miss?  
Indiana
Ohio (an upset winner over his pre-season 23 pick Michigan)
NC State

Based on 2012, I'd say he's got a pretty good handle on the likely Sweet 16 contenders for 2013.

[77ncaachamps]

useless at this point since there are so many who may or may not leave.

But it makes for a good off-season debate.

Wilner, a long time MU supporter, has us out. No Jae, No DJO can do that.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_20316597/college-basketball-jon-wilners-top-25-next-season

[strotty]

The main issue is that, for the first time in four years, Marquette's best player won't be a senior. That's a HUGE difference.

[Dawson Rental]

Do I need to remind you how useless these polls are?  

Go back and look at what Katz said a year ago

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=6513197

Some examples
6. Connecticut
8. Memphis
10. Arizona
14. Alabama
17. Pittsburgh
18. Kansas
20. Texas A&M
24. George Mason

Pittsburgh did win the CIT. 

[Tugg Speedman]

Useless?  He had 10 of the eventual Sweet 16 teams identified almost a year in advance.  

1. UNC
2. Kentucky
3. Ohio State
4. Syracuse
9. Louisville
11. Wisconsin
12. Florida
13. Marquette
16. Baylor

He had 2 more listed just outside, and a 3rd in his "teams to consider":
18. Kansas
19. Cincnnati
Others to consider: Michigan State

Who'd he miss?  
Indiana
Ohio (an upset winner over his pre-season 23 pick Michigan)
NC State

Based on 2012, I'd say he's got a pretty good handle on the likely Sweet 16 contenders for 2013.

He predicted the easy part. 

Here is my 2016 top five

UNC
Kentucky
Duke
MSU
Kansas

And remember none of the 2016 players are at any of these schools right now.

So if this is accurate does this make me good or are these just obvious picks?  Katz got the obvious picks correct.