Students

[Hoopaloop]

Or, honestly, who the hell cares other than dorky alumni on the internet?

I suspect the Athletic Department cares  Helps for recruiting as well. 

[MisterJaylenBrownMU]

Could be, but doesn't explain why frosh in past years were going.  My disappointment has been the turnout.  People can throw out the ticket sales numbers all they want and say we're ranked 11th, all of that is terrific.  What is disappointing is seeing the empty seats in the student section.  

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but....well, here we go.

This has almost everything to do with being a smaller school playing in a 20,000 seat stadium.  We're a school of less than 12,000 total students!  And our attendance is higher than schools like Ohio State (64,000 students), Florida (50,000), and Minnesota (52,000).  And I emphasize the word "students."  They have to do things like go to class.  And study.  If there's low turnout for a Saturday game, that's a different conversation, but this thread and the accompanying video are about a game against Seton Hall on a Tuesday.  Sure, some students are able to take a night off and make it to the game, but I wouldn't call a student that decides to cram for an exam "disappointing."  I take as much pride in Marquette academically as I do athletically.

If you're honestly disappointed that students are buying tickets and not showing up for a January mid-week game against a middle-tier Big East opponent, then we fundamentally disagree on the expectations for students.  Did you look around the rest of the arena on that night?  It's not like we hit 95% capacity with a raucous alum crowd, but an empty student section.  I have no animosity whatsoever towards the student that pays $100 per year for season tickets and only goes to weekend or marquee games.  Especially when enough students are showing up to keep us near the top of the NCAA in attendance on an annual basis.

[mu_hilltopper]

Maybe they should triple the student ticket prices.  

It's easy to blow off a $6 game.  

There's no doubt there are December cupcakes that I might not go to if I hadn't already invested $80 that I want to get some value out of.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I suspect the Athletic Department cares  Helps for recruiting as well. 

Please tell me how much having a full student section in the upper deck would help with recruiting. I understand students help with the gameday environment, but to think that it significantly helps with recruiting is a stretch.

Also, I'm sure the athletic department "cares", but how much?

They are still selling a ton of tickets, the kids just aren't showing up. So what? MU is probably better off directing it's resources at rich alumni who can donate $, than a bunch of 18 year olds who don't like sitting in the upper deck, no?

Allocation of resources.

I'd like to see MU do something about it... but the truth is, maybe it's just not worth it.

[jaybilaswho?]

I am honestly embarrassed by that video.

"not many people know Seton Hall"--- they are in the Big East... you dont know who they are, you're an idiot. You can not know where they are located, but not heard of them... go home and play WoW.

"play more ranked teams at home"/"move games to the weekend"--- the schedule is made how far in advance? Well before any rankings take place, other than preseason rankings. Be realistic... IDIOTS.

[WarriorHal]

I graduated many years ago, but what the hell else is there for Marquette students to do?

I went to class, studied, drank beer, and went to every basketball game. The social scene completely revolved around basketball. The idea that you couldn't take a couple of hours off on a week night to go to a game was practically unheard of. I realized that life would get a lot more difficult and complicated after college, so I had some fun while I could -- and still got a great education.

[GGGG]

I am honestly embarrassed by that video.

"not many people know Seton Hall"--- they are in the Big East... you dont know who they are, you're an idiot. You can not know where they are located, but not heard of them... go home and play WoW.

"play more ranked teams at home"/"move games to the weekend"--- the schedule is made how far in advance? Well before any rankings take place, other than preseason rankings. Be realistic... IDIOTS.

You should tell them to get off your lawn too.

[jaybilaswho?]

I am sure that not too far down the road, some over protective parent is going to sue a school's Athletics Department blaming them for their child's drop in grades because of weekday games. When that day comes, maybe these kids will get their weekend games.

[warriorchick]

I cannot believe this is still the conversation.

Can I just ask a question to the constant complainers about student attendance?

Why the F*ck do you care so much about this?   


If it is that important to you, then plunk down $35,000 and reenroll so that you can buy student tickets and sit in the student section at every game.  That is assuming you could meet the current, more stringent admissions standards.

Sheesh................

[MerrittsMustache]

I cannot believe this is still the conversation.

Can I just ask a question to the constant complainers about student attendance?

Why the F*ck do you care so much about this?   


If it is that important to you, then plunk down $35,000 and reenroll so that you can buy student tickets and sit in the student section at every game.  That is assuming you could meet the current, more stringent admissions standards.

Sheesh................

When Marquette went to the Final Four in 2003, the number of applicants increased to the point that MU had to create a waiting list for the first time ever. As the number of applicants increased, the admissions standards were made stricter. With stricter admissions standards comes more difficult coursework. With more difficult coursework comes more time spent studying. With more time spent studying comes less time for extracurriculars. With less time for extracurriculars comes less time for attending basketball games against No-Name U, Little Sisters of the Poor and Seton Hall.

Therefore, Marquette basketball is to blame for the lack of student attendance at Marquette basketball games!

[mu_hilltopper]

I would be surprised if those linkages you talk about are indeed correct.

While I do believe our basketball program has increased applications .. kids are applying to WAY more schools these days .. and even if MU misses the next 5 NITs, their app count will continue to set records year after year. 

The next linkage was that higher apps = better students = more difficult coursework.   

Really?  Is college harder now, than it was 5-10-20 years ago?  I'd think the fact that a billion pages of research is available via the internet makes that implausible, versus what it was a decade ago.

I'd bet that kids .. work just about as hard as they did decades ago. 

I'll bet the bell curve has held all these years .. there are plenty of MU kids that are studying 40 hours a week.  There are plenty that are studying 4 hours a week.

[warriorchick]

I would be surprised if those linkages you talk about are indeed correct.

While I do believe our basketball program has increased applications .. kids are applying to WAY more schools these days .. and even if MU misses the next 5 NITs, their app count will continue to set records year after year.  

The next linkage was that higher apps = better students = more difficult coursework.  

Really?  Is college harder now, than it was 5-10-20 years ago?  I'd think the fact that a billion pages of research is available via the internet makes that implausible, versus what it was a decade ago.

I'd bet that kids .. work just about as hard as they did decades ago.  

I'll bet the bell curve has held all these years .. there are plenty of MU kids that are studying 40 hours a week.  There are plenty that are studying 4 hours a week.

The number 1 reason for the increased applications in terms of pure numbers is Marquette's  acceptance of the Common Application.  Kids fill out one online form, write one essay, and send it off to any number of hundreds of schools with a mouseclick.  They also dropped the application fee, so there is nothing to lose and little additional effort involved with throwing Marquette on the pile.

[Hoopaloop]

I cannot believe this is still the conversation.

Can I just ask a question to the constant complainers about student attendance?

Why the F*ck do you care so much about this?   


If it is that important to you, then plunk down $35,000 and reenroll so that you can buy student tickets and sit in the student section at every game.  That is assuming you could meet the current, more stringent admissions standards.

Sheesh................

It's an opinion board, we all have different opinions.   I can't answer for others, but the reason I care is that I want the students to enjoy various aspects of Marquette, including basketball.  I want the team to do well and be supported.  I'd like to see solid school spirit and it's disappointing to see the drop off, especially in light of a top 10 year.  Is our student body so apathetic now that a top 10 team to support isn't good enough?

That's why I care.  The others can answer for themselves.   Why are you upset that some fans care about what they perceive to be students taking less interest in the program?  Isn't strong interest in the program a good thing?  Financially?  Atmosphere?  Home Court advantage?  Etc?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I would be surprised if those linkages you talk about are indeed correct.

While I do believe our basketball program has increased applications .. kids are applying to WAY more schools these days .. and even if MU misses the next 5 NITs, their app count will continue to set records year after year. 

The next linkage was that higher apps = better students = more difficult coursework.   

Really?  Is college harder now, than it was 5-10-20 years ago?  I'd think the fact that a billion pages of research is available via the internet makes that implausible, versus what it was a decade ago.

I'd bet that kids .. work just about as hard as they did decades ago. 

I'll bet the bell curve has held all these years .. there are plenty of MU kids that are studying 40 hours a week.  There are plenty that are studying 4 hours a week.

In the short run (5-8 years), you are correct. However, in the long run (maybe 10-15 years) MU could become more exclusive academically if the basketball program continues at an elite level.

Universal applications aside, it's a numbers game. More people are aware of the Marquette, more people apply, MU can pick and chose more exclusively. Again, this is in the long run, and I don't think that it is a large enough academic bump that suddenly MU kids don't have time to go to games.

A kid with a 30 ACT today doesn't have time to go to games, but a kid with a 27 ACT in 2002 had time? That doesn't make sense.

However in the next 15-20 years, MU might become so expensive that applications drop significantly, so it won't matter how good the basketball team is.

[Hoopaloop]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but....well, here we go.

This has almost everything to do with being a smaller school playing in a 20,000 seat stadium.  We're a school of less than 12,000 total students!  And our attendance is higher than schools like Ohio State (64,000 students), Florida (50,000), and Minnesota (52,000).  And I emphasize the word "students."  They have to do things like go to class.  And study.  If there's low turnout for a Saturday game, that's a different conversation, but this thread and the accompanying video are about a game against Seton Hall on a Tuesday.  Sure, some students are able to take a night off and make it to the game, but I wouldn't call a student that decides to cram for an exam "disappointing."  I take as much pride in Marquette academically as I do athletically.

But they did show up in years past, why THIS year is the difference?  Did students not have to go to class and study in years past?  You seem to be saying the ticket sales reported is all that matters as long as we make the top 15 in attendance, but whether they show up or not is of little concern.  We disagree.   Maybe it is time to shrink the student section down to make it a more attractive purchase.  Shrink it to 2,500.  A suggestion, maybe a bad one.  Open it up as an ad hoc for big games for those that only wish to go to 2 or 3 games a year but put those students in the upper deck.

Please tell me how much having a full student section in the upper deck would help with recruiting. I understand students help with the gameday environment, but to think that it significantly helps with recruiting is a stretch.

In my opinion there are many reasons to pick a school.  Playing time, the coach, the conference, exposure, the academics, the girls, the atmosphere at the games, and probably 50 other reasons.   I would gather that the reason we bring recruits to big games is due to the bigger crowds and electric atmosphere.  We don't often have recruits come on official visits when we are playing Norfolk State.

If you listen to some of the comments from coaches and players after some big games, they will sometimes say the crowd was great or even key to energizing the team.  Or the student section was fantastic.  They are the 6th man.  Maybe a better way to state it is a good student crowd doesn't hurt us and I believe it helps us display what we are capable of.  It can leave an impression on a recruit that MU fans, the crowd, the students, etc are really behind this team.  

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Isn't strong interest in the program a good thing?  Financially?  Atmosphere?  Home Court advantage?  Etc?

Have you been to many games this year? Honestly, it's pretty much the same as it is every other year. Maybe 500 students less for Seton Hall. MU is never going to get a Georgetown crowd out for a tuesday night game against Southwest Alabama State. It has always been that way.

Financially, it has ZERO impact on MU another 1000 students show up on a Tuesday game in November.

Atmosphere is better with students, and I like that. But, an extra 1000 fans doesn't really change the atmosphere that much to create a significant home court advantage. It just doesn't.

I agree with you that it would be nice to have more students there, but you seem to think it is very important, when in reality, it really isn't.

[warriorchick]

It's an opinion board, we all have different opinions.   I can't answer for others, but the reason I care is that I want the students to enjoy various aspects of Marquette, including basketball.  I want the team to do well and be supported.  I'd like to see solid school spirit and it's disappointing to see the drop off, especially in light of a top 10 year.  Is our student body so apathetic now that a top 10 team to support isn't good enough?

That's why I care.  The others can answer for themselves.   Why are you upset that some fans care about what they perceive to be students taking less interest in the program?  Isn't strong interest in the program a good thing?  Financially?  Atmosphere?  Home Court advantage?  Etc?

Why am I upset?  What upsets me is that we have one of the highest student attendance rates in the country, especially in terms of percentage of undergrad enrollment, and not only are there some on this board who not only think that is not good enough, but resort to calling them, ahem. "hairy wet cats" and the like.

I really don't think you need to worry about the students not enjoying "various aspects of Marquette".  I would guess that over the span of 4 years well over 95% of students will have attended at least one game, so they know what they are missing.  If you were honestly concerned about making sure that they took advantage of ALL that Marquette had to offer, you wouldalso  be posting threads complaining that there are empty carrels at the Library, or empty pews at Mass instead of just empty seats in the BC student section.

[reinko]

In the short run (5-8 years), you are correct. However, in the long run (maybe 10-15 years) MU could become more exclusive academically if the basketball program continues at an elite level.

Universal applications aside, it's a numbers game. More people are aware of the Marquette, more people apply, MU can pick and chose more exclusively. Again, this is in the long run, and I don't think that it is a large enough academic bump that suddenly MU kids don't have time to go to games.

A kid with a 30 ACT today doesn't have time to go to games, but a kid with a 27 ACT in 2002 had time? That doesn't make sense.

However in the next 15-20 years, MU might become so expensive that applications drop significantly, so it won't matter how good the basketball team is.

This kid with a 24 ACT went to all of the games. 

[GGGG]

Why am I upset?  What upsets me is that we have one of the highest student attendance rates in the country, especially in terms of percentage of undergrad enrollment, and not only are there some on this board who not only think that is not good enough, but resort to calling them, ahem. "hairy wet cats" and the like.

I really don't think you need to worry about the students not enjoying "various aspects of Marquette".  I would guess that over the span of 4 years well over 95% of students will have attended at least one game, so they know what they are missing.  If you were honestly concerned about making sure that they took advantage of ALL that Marquette had to offer, you wouldalso  be posting threads complaining that there are empty carrels at the Library, or empty pews at Mass instead of just empty seats in the BC student section.

Very well stated.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

But they did show up in years past, why THIS year is the difference?  It's not. Its slightly down. I wouldn't have even noticed if it wasn't for the internet telling me. Did students not have to go to class and study in years past?  You seem to be saying the ticket sales reported is all that matters as long as we make the top 15 in attendance, but whether they show up or not is of little concern.  We disagree.   Maybe it is time to shrink the student section down to make it a more attractive purchase.  Shrink it to 2,500.  A suggestion, maybe a bad one.  Open it up as an ad hoc for big games for those that only wish to go to 2 or 3 games a year but put those students in the upper deck.



In my opinion there are many reasons to pick a school.  Playing time, the coach, the conference, exposure, the academics, the girls, the atmosphere at the games, and probably 50 other reasons.   I would gather that the reason we bring recruits to big games is due to the bigger crowds and electric atmosphere.  We don't often have recruits come on official visits when we are playing Norfolk State.

Dude, MU is never going to get 19,000 people for Norfolk State on a Tuesday. Fact. If MU gets 2500 students to go instead of 1500, does it really make a difference to a recruit? I can't imagine it would. MU packs the place for Georgetown every time, so of course you bring recruits to those games.

If you listen to some of the comments from coaches and players after some big games, they will sometimes say the crowd was great or even key to energizing the team.  Or the student section was fantastic.  They are the 6th man.  Maybe a better way to state it is a good student crowd doesn't hurt us and I believe it helps us display what we are capable of.  It can leave an impression on a recruit that MU fans, the crowd, the students, etc are really behind this team.  

I agree, but we need to be realistic about what we are talking about. Are you disappointed that MU doesn't get 4000 students on a Tuesday in December? They never have. Maybe they used to get 1700, and this year they got 1300. Wow. Shocking. It really isn't the issue you are making it out to be.  

[MerrittsMustache]

I would be surprised if those linkages you talk about are indeed correct.

While I do believe our basketball program has increased applications .. kids are applying to WAY more schools these days .. and even if MU misses the next 5 NITs, their app count will continue to set records year after year. 

The next linkage was that higher apps = better students = more difficult coursework.   

Really?  Is college harder now, than it was 5-10-20 years ago?  I'd think the fact that a billion pages of research is available via the internet makes that implausible, versus what it was a decade ago.

I'd bet that kids .. work just about as hard as they did decades ago. 

I'll bet the bell curve has held all these years .. there are plenty of MU kids that are studying 40 hours a week.  There are plenty that are studying 4 hours a week.

Apparently it was tough to see my tongue planted in my cheek via the internet.

[Hoopaloop]

Why am I upset?  What upsets me is that we have one of the highest student attendance rates in the country, especially in terms of percentage of undergrad enrollment, and not only are there some on this board who not only think that is not good enough, but resort to calling them, ahem. "hairy wet cats" and the like.

Where do you see we have one of the highest student attendance rates in the country?  They don't track that information, they track overall attendance but not student attendance.

I believe your analogy to the the Library and Mass are not relevant.  You can study many different places (dorm, union, library, coffee shop, etc).  You can only experience an in game atmosphere by being at the game. TV is nice, but not the same.

Have you been to many games this year? Honestly, it's pretty much the same as it is every other year. Maybe 500 students less for Seton Hall. MU is never going to get a Georgetown crowd out for a tuesday night game against Southwest Alabama State. It has always been that way.

Financially, it has ZERO impact on MU another 1000 students show up on a Tuesday game in November.

Well we will disagree.  In my view, considering the quality of this team, the drop off has been higher than in years past.  Apparently enough other people have noticed it to bring it up here, have the student television station do a report on it.


edit for 2002:  I know we aren't going to get 19,000 for Norfolk State.  Don't think I ever suggested we would.  Crappy games against non-conference opponents will get crappy attendance.  We need to do better in conference games.  It's rather eye-opening when we have people say who is Seton Hall.  Seems the topic has been beaten to death.  Out.

[mu_hilltopper]

Apparently it was tough to see my tongue planted in my cheek via the internet.

Dang, sorry.  The existence of teal has ruined everything.

[SacWarrior]

Ugh I know that reporter too. He knows nothing about basketball, but works with MUTV so he gets to do everything student television related. His analysis is basically "Oh man Jae is so great. Oh man look at DJO too he's so great. Vander Blue is a disappointment, I'm so intelligent for knowing that"

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Where do you see we have one of the highest student attendance rates in the country?  They don't track that information, they track overall attendance but not student attendance.

I believe your analogy to the the Library and Mass are not relevant.  You can study many different places (dorm, union, library, coffee shop, etc).  You can only experience an in game atmosphere by being at the game. TV is nice, but not the same.

Well we will disagree.  In my view, considering the quality of this team, the drop off has been higher than in years past.  Apparently enough other people have noticed it to bring it up here, have the student television station do a report on it.


edit for 2002:  I know we aren't going to get 19,000 for Norfolk State.  Don't think I ever suggested we would.  Crappy games against non-conference opponents will get crappy attendance.  We need to do better in conference games.  It's rather eye-opening when we have people say who is Seton Hall.  Seems the topic has been beaten to death.  Out.

2 things:

#1 People bitch about attendance every season, so please don't use this board as the litmus test for student attendance. Honestly, I attend almost every game, and the difference this season was negligible in my eyes. What did you see?

#2 You're right, it would be cool if MU could get more students for Seton Hall. However, honestly, does getting 2000 students instead of 1500 make a difference? It doesn't make MU more $. It doesn't really make the place "more intimidating". I don't think its going to impress a recruit.

MU had a slight slip in attendance, and it seems like it concerns you. I'm simply asking, why? 500-1000 extra kids in the upper deck on a Tuesday night against Seton Hall. What does that really do for anybody?