So....What are we ranked on Monday - 1/6/2025?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ellenson

Not quite

[5DollarPitcher]

This narrative that Wojo's era was a complete failure is utterly and totally ridiculous.

Alright I'll bite.

Go ahead. In what way was it not a complete failure?

[bradforster]

Wojo - great car salesman, awful head BB coach.  Wojo was so bad at building momentum late in the season I've been conditioned to expect a February fade.  I hope this year we break the trend, and I'm confident Shaka and this "connected" group is going to do just that!

[PointWarrior]

Projo's are a weird bunch.  He's gone, you can admit he sucked.  Having to pay a coach to go away after wasting 7 years shows it was an absolute failure. 

"Probation" is being ranked numerous times, putting players in the NBA (including in lottery), and developing a Wooden Award finalist? Not to mention who knows how 2020 tourney would've gone but for Covid.

This narrative that Wojo's era was a complete failure is utterly and totally ridiculous.

[Goose]

Avenue

There was zero team success in the NCAA, thus my probation reference. You play the game to win in March, MU did not. MU fired Wojo because he was failure at accomplishing success in March. Other items noted, obviously were not enough for him to keep his job. It is funny that you noted individual accomplishments in defense of the last guy and all everyone else is doing on here is celebrating great team play. Team success is why we field a basketball team and we are seeing what a team can accomplish under Shaka.

[Lennys Tap]

Agree. But Wojo wasn't some train wreck. It wasn't great, but this revisionist history that it was some Dukiet level dark chapter is weird.

You're right. There was one (1) coach at Marquette in the last 60 years who was worse than Wojo. I guess for some that's an accomplishment.

The pain wasn't quite as severe, but the duration (7years vs 3) was much longer. One acute, one chronic. Both sucked.

[SaveOD238]

Avenue

There was zero team success in the NCAA, thus my probation reference. You play the game to win in March, MU did not. MU fired Wojo because he was failure at accomplishing success in March. Other items noted, obviously were not enough for him to keep his job. It is funny that you noted individual accomplishments in defense of the last guy and all everyone else is doing on here is celebrating great team play. Team success is why we field a basketball team and we are seeing what a team can accomplish under Shaka.

It wasn't March that sank Wojo.  It was his performance in February. 

[Uncle Rico]

Projo's are a weird bunch.  He's gone, you can admit he sucked.  Having to pay a coach to go away after wasting 7 years shows it was an absolute failure.

Every coach since Al has been an abject failure.  I don't care about these kids educations, lives after college or pro careers.  Nattys are the bottom line.  Any season without one is a waste of my time

[The Lens]

Wojo is the first coach since Dukiet to not hang a banner at The Al. 

He did not:

Win conference
Win conference tourney
Make a S16

All of the above get you a banner at The Al.  Those should be minimum expectations of your tenure.  He failed. 

[Avenue Commons]

All:

I am nothing short of ecstatic for the current state of Marquette hoops. Shaka is currently the best coach in America with a wide gap between second.

Can't wait to see what we do in March.

Onward.

[DoctorV]

It wasn't March that sank Wojo.  It was his performance in February.

Two specific basketball things sank wojo imo.

1- adopting coach Ks style of playing 6-7 guys at Marquette. Completely flawed system outside of possibly a few select blue blood schools. I know there were times where he played more guys but he always had a quick hook and didn't let the guys outside of his top 3/4 learn through their mistakes, develop and grow. This led to some of the most brutal matador defense we've ever seen, late season collapses, and large rifts inside the group.

Along the same lines, he was a very poor communicator and motivator- couldn't even keep his 30 mpg guys who got the lions share of the offense happy and connected, let alone all the others.

2- his ability to coach defense. Brutal, just brutal. There is nothing more refreshing about the new era of Marquette basketball than not watching the opposing team get easy basket after easy basket, layup after layup, dunk after dunk. The opposition never had to work at anything and MU seemed to always give up 80 or 90 points. It was embarrassing and was sometimes masked by Markus and Co offensive production. Just lousy defense, you can't win with it.

Wojo could recruit at an elite level and put an elite offensive team on the court. Anyone that says otherwise is wrong. He had the wrong overall approach, poor team building and motivational skills, and couldn't coach a lick of defense or build a team that could better balance acceptable defense with good offense.
That's why he gawne

[bilsu]

You're right. There was one (1) coach at Marquette in the last 60 years who was worse than Wojo. I guess for some that's an accomplishment.

The pain wasn't quite as severe, but the duration (7years vs 3) was much longer. One acute, one chronic. Both sucked.

Not to defend Wojo, but I think there were three coaches worse than Wojo.
First would be Majerus. He never made NCAA tournament after taking over MU program that had gone to NCAA tournament every year from 1969 on, except for when Al turned down bid and won NIT and the year Raymonds missed when Dean Marquardt was seriously injured in a car crash. Majerus would have ended up being a great coach in time, but he quit and we got stuck with the piano man. Majerus absolutely ended MU's place among the elite teams.
Second, was Dukiet. Nobody will argue that the piano man was not the worse coach
Third would be Mike Dean. He had early success with talent left by Kevin O'Neal. He could coach, but he could not recruit and therefore ran the program into the ground.

[MU82]

All:

I am nothing short of ecstatic for the current state of Marquette hoops. Shaka is currently the best coach in America with a wide gap between second.

Can't wait to see what we do in March.

Onward.

No! Not onward! We will not rest until we turn every thread into "Wojo sucks"!

Oh, and I say we'll be ranked 18-20 on Monday.

We Are Marquette!

[Goose]

bilsu

Al leaving ended our run of being an elite program. Hank threw gas on the problem and Rick lit the match, but to have Rick in top three worst coach at MU discussion is a bit crazy IMO.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Mike Deane was bad but his results were better than Wojo.  Pretty equal feel around the program at the end of both of their tenures.  Both deserved to be fired. 

[Uncle Rico]

Mike Deane was bad but his results were better than Wojo.  Pretty equal feel around the program at the end of both of their tenures.  Both deserved to be fired.

Mike Deane won't help this years team with what they're ranked

[The Lens]

Not to defend Wojo, but I think there were three coaches worse than Wojo.
First would be Majerus. He never made NCAA tournament after taking over MU program that had gone to NCAA tournament every year from 1969 on, except for when Al turned down bid and won NIT and the year Raymonds missed when Dean Marquardt was seriously injured in a car crash. Majerus would have ended up being a great coach in time, but he quit and we got stuck with the piano man. Majerus absolutely ended MU's place among the elite teams.
Second, was Dukiet. Nobody will argue that the piano man was not the worse coach
Third would be Mike Dean. He had early success with talent left by Kevin O'Neal. He could coach, but he could not recruit and therefore ran the program into the ground.

It's Mike Deane.  Not Dean. Deane. With an E.  The E stands for Effort, on defense.  Something Wojo could never teach. 

Also Mike hung a banner.  Flags fly forever.

[tower912]

Two specific basketball things sank wojo imo.

1- adopting coach Ks style of playing 6-7 guys at Marquette. Completely flawed system outside of possibly a few select blue blood schools. I know there were times where he played more guys but he always had a quick hook and didn't let the guys outside of his top 3/4 learn through their mistakes, develop and grow. This led to some of the most brutal matador defense we've ever seen, late season collapses, and large rifts inside the group.

Along the same lines, he was a very poor communicator and motivator- couldn't even keep his 30 mpg guys who got the lions share of the offense happy and connected, let alone all the others.

2- his ability to coach defense. Brutal, just brutal. There is nothing more refreshing about the new era of Marquette basketball than not watching the opposing team get easy basket after easy basket, layup after layup, dunk after dunk. The opposition never had to work at anything and MU seemed to always give up 80 or 90 points. It was embarrassing and was sometimes masked by Markus and Co offensive production. Just lousy defense, you can't win with it.

Wojo could recruit at an elite level and put an elite offensive team on the court. Anyone that says otherwise is wrong. He had the wrong overall approach, poor team building and motivational skills, and couldn't coach a lick of defense or build a team that could better balance acceptable defense with good offense.
That's why he gawne

I agree with a lot of this, but a couple of quibbles.
Wojo did not recruit speed and athleticism.   No athletic wings or switchables.    It is impossible to play good defense with two sub 6' guards when one is completely indifferent to defense and the other isn't great.  Switching on pick and rolls with the other short guy guarding the weakside corner shooter and therefore being the help defender on the rolling big can only end in disaster.   So, scheme and roster composition that weren't synced.

[#UnleashSean]

"Probation" is being ranked numerous times, putting players in the NBA (including in lottery), and developing a Wooden Award finalist? Not to mention who knows how 2020 tourney would've gone but for Covid.

This narrative that Wojo's era was a complete failure is utterly and totally ridiculous.

So there is at least one projo left alive.

[#UnleashSean]

Gang, a game at a time.

Let's focus on putting the Husky down. Crappie little dog — had enough of him this year.

Go one from there after Wednesday.

I forgot that if scoop doesn't focus on the next game that the team might lose focus.

[Uncle Rico]

I forgot that if scoop doesn't focus on the next game that the team might lose focus.

Focus on the next game?  Why, when we can focus on the last 23 head coaches?

[CountryRoads]

For me, the worst part about Wojo's tenure by far was the continuous growth of apathy among the fan base as the years went by.

The raw results were ok'ish at times and Wojo really did the absolute bare minimum not to be fired earlier (with some very lucky breaks in year 3 to sneak into the tournament...playing Creighton and Xavier without their top players, Nova shooting 6 of 34 wide open threes, etc). Wojo was also saved by the bell in 2020 and if the season was just a game or two longer, we were going to be left out if there was a tournament.

Lastly, I truly believe that Wojo was delusional enough to think he was running a winning program the whole time and meeting expectations. Any comment to the contrary was always met with "winning in this league is harder than it looks."

[#UnleashSean]

Agree. But Wojo wasn't some train wreck. It wasn't great, but this revisionist history that it was some Dukiet level dark chapter is weird.

Sir it's not revisionist history. We had ZERO ncaa tournament wins in 7 years. ZERO. We went to the tournament twice. In 7 years. Wojo was under .500 in big east play. Wojo lost to belmont at HOME. Wojo went to OT at HOME against IUPUI. Both of these games were with a lottery pick burger boy. 🍔  Wojo lost to fking OMAHA at home. Wojo bad not one, but two losing seasons.

We're not revising history, were stating facts.

[#UnleashSean]

Focus on the next game?  Why, when we can focus on the last 23 head coaches?

Again, after listening to people say "respect the process". Those of us who called out wojo in years 1,2, and 3 deserve one year to gloat.

[#UnleashSean]

It wasn't March that sank Wojo.  It was his performance in February.

Hard to sink in March when you rarely played.