MU and Bigs

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Okay so MU is a small team, and has been so since I arrived as a freshman on campus (2003). I don't understand how the lack of true bigs on our roster year in and year out doesn't solve itself with halfway-competent recruiting.

If I'm a 7ft top prospect out of high school, I'd be interested in a place where I can likely play as a freshman, and where I have a supporting cast of guards and wings. I'd be the missing piece to a team that overachieves without size.

I guess my question is: is there anything about MU itself that's keeping us from landing quality bigs? TC seems to have been able to get them at IU, so why not here? Why just that position?

[Blackhat]

We have all avenues open to us (JUCO, prep) and not hard admissions for b-ball.  With a recruiter's rep Buzz should be able to land a couple M Jax or (hopefully) better types in a 2-3 year span.

[Jacks DC]

About a year ago I floated the idea of pursuing Colton Iverson when he announced he was transferring and everyone disagreed.  I get that he would not be eligible this year and would take up a scholarship but I would feel a lot better if knew that we had a 6'10, 260 player with Big 10 experience coming in next year.

[Da 'Lanche]

I generally agree with the concern about bigs....but, honestly, tonight...I don't think that was our problem.   I can't blame the meltdown as a lack of bigs...Gardner was terrific and we seemed to hit the boards pretty hard overall.   A big would not have been guarding the perimeter 3 which is what absolutely killed us....maybe a big helps seal up the interior a bit and our guards would be freer to stay outside, but, I just did not find myself watching this particular game and thinking if we had another big body we would not be blowing this so badly.

overall, though, I agree it is perplexing on this deficiency in our roster year after year.

[reinko]

Fire buzz and hire sixstring, he cracked the caper!

So so refreshing to hear a new argument on what MU is not doing to win.

Thanks!

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Fire buzz and hire sixstring, he cracked the caper!

So so refreshing to hear a new argument on what MU is not doing to win.

Thanks!

confused by that response; not at all what i posted. Tell us some more about how law of averages plays into this?

[reinko]

confused by that response; not at all what i posted. Tell us some more about how law of averages plays into this?

How about the law of supply?  Familiar with that one chief? 

Look up how many skilled players there are above 6'9" coming out of high school every year and you have your answer on why MU has had to rely on the Barros, Otules, and the Mbaos of the world.  And yet, year in and year out we have team inside or near the top 25 in the country.

[CTWarrior]

How about the law of supply?  Familiar with that one chief? 

Look up how many skilled players there are above 6'9" coming out of high school every year and you have your answer on why MU has had to rely on the Barros, Otules, and the Mbaos of the world.  And yet, year in and year out we have team inside or near the top 25 in the country.

You've already criminally misapplied the law of averages tonight, and though not an econ major, I believe the term is law of supply and demand.  As far as that law goes, I think there's enough of a supply that a regular NCAA team that plays in a high profile conference and is on national TV as often as we are should be able to score a 6-9 non-project at least once a decade.  Cincinnati always has a few of those guys, as do most of the Big East teams we face.  Crean had all kinds of trouble getting those kinds of players and now it appears that Buzz is,too.  It is odd to many that we don't seem to get a representative share of those kind of guys.  It really is curious when you think about it.  Your point that bringing this up again and again is beating a dead horse is quite valid, though.

[JD]

I think what reinko was trying to say is that there are less than 25 big men that come out of high school, so MU shouldn't expect one?

Is that right chief?

[🏀]

I would like to say that I'm loving the amount of times chief has been used on the board tonight.

[denverMU]

How about the law of supply?  Familiar with that one chief? 

Look up how many skilled players there are above 6'9" coming out of high school every year and you have your answer on why MU has had to rely on the Barros, Otules, and the Mbaos of the world.  And yet, year in and year out we have team inside or near the top 25 in the country.

I think what reinko was trying to say is that there are less than 25 big men that come out of high school, so MU







Is that right chief?

I am so tired of seeing this ridiculous myth posted on this board year after year.  So I did a quick check of two leagues, Missouri Valley and the Big East.  Let,s look at some facts, Miss. Valley each team averages 4.2 players 6-8 or taller with one team with 7 players.  The Big East averages 4.5 players 6-8 or taller with Gtown with 8.  On the other hand, MU has only 2 players 6-8 or taller.

[muwarrior69]

Why could'nt we get that 7 footer that played for UWGB? Decent player, no?

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Your point that bringing this up again and again is beating a dead horse is quite valid, though.

To clarify - really not interested in making this the millionth forum to complain about the situation... just haven't heard any theories at all as to why MU seems to stand out (regardless who our coach is) in not landing that type of player. Wouldn't we be one of the more attractive schools for a star center type?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I would like to say that I'm loving the amount of times chief has been used on the board tonight.

excellent observation chief.

"MUScoop:  too many chiefs, not enough injins."

[🏀]

excellent observation chief.

"MUScoop:  too many chiefs, not enough injins."

I always figured 4ever and willie were the only Natives on the board.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I am so tired of seeing this ridiculous myth posted on this board year after year.  So I did a quick check of two leagues, Missouri Valley and the Big East.  Let,s look at some facts, Miss. Valley each team averages 4.2 players 6-8 or taller with one team with 7 players.  The Big East averages 4.5 players 6-8 or taller with Gtown with 8.  On the other hand, MU has only 2 players 6-8 or taller.

Next season, MU should have four that are 6'8" or taller...with JWilson being the 0.5 to get MU to 4.5 players.

[leever]

You've already criminally misapplied the law of averages tonight, and though not an econ major, I believe the term is law of supply and demand.  As far as that law goes, I think there's enough of a supply that a regular NCAA team that plays in a high profile conference and is on national TV as often as we are should be able to score a 6-9 non-project at least once a decade.  Cincinnati always has a few of those guys, as do most of the Big East teams we face.  Crean had all kinds of trouble getting those kinds of players and now it appears that Buzz is,too.  It is odd to many that we don't seem to get a representative share of those kind of guys.  It really is curious when you think about it.  Your point that bringing this up again and again is beating a dead horse is quite valid, though.

Well, actually they are not so much "laws" as they are merely "suggestions"..........

[bamamarquettefan]

I generally agree with the concern about bigs....but, honestly, tonight...I don't think that was our problem.   I can't blame the meltdown as a lack of bigs...Gardner was terrific and we seemed to hit the boards pretty hard overall.   A big would not have been guarding the perimeter 3 which is what absolutely killed us....maybe a big helps seal up the interior a bit and our guards would be freer to stay outside, but, I just did not find myself watching this particular game and thinking if we had another big body we would not be blowing this so badly.

overall, though, I agree it is perplexing on this deficiency in our roster year after year.

I agree with you mostly, but do believe we have to double down so hard without a big that one player has to be open - and a team with a couple of great 3-pointer shooters makes sure it's a guy on the perimeter.  When Otule was guarding the rim, we were much freer to stay manned up.

still, I thought Crowder did the right thing at the end to try to channel Sims into DJO for the charge - maybe we get that call at home or on a neutral court.  Overall it was a great showing - home court is worth 4 and we lost by 3 to a top 10 team.  I know people don't like my moral victories - but play like that again in March against them and we easily win at the Bradley Center.

[Earl Tatum]

This point was stated many times. We need a quality point guard and good big. Wouldn't hurt to have some bigger wings that can shoot. Still don't like the inner city playground style of slash and draw a foul. We don't have a Michael Jordan.

[bilsu]

I think there is a big difference between Syracuse and MU. Bigs want to play for Syracuse and I suspect it is because they play zone. MU has trouble recruiting bigmen and I suspect they avoid MU, because they do not want to be running all over the court.

[brewcity77]

I think there is a big difference between Syracuse and MU. Bigs want to play for Syracuse and I suspect it is because they play zone. MU has trouble recruiting bigmen and I suspect they avoid MU, because they do not want to be running all over the court.

There's also simple history. Boeheim can point to Derrick Coleman, Etan Thomas, John Wallace, Hakim Warrick, and Donte Green as 4s and 5s (at least at the collegiate level) that he placed in the NBA. Buzz can point at...erm...Jim McIlvaine, if he's fortunate enough to have Jim and Homer in the building at the time prepping for a broadcast.

[WarriorHal]

I think there is a big difference between Syracuse and MU. Bigs want to play for Syracuse and I suspect it is because they play zone. MU has trouble recruiting bigmen and I suspect they avoid MU, because they do not want to be running all over the court.

Hmmm...never thought of that. Interesting. You might have something there.

Also, I assume there is fierce competition for the limited supply of 4-5 star bigs, and best of them want to go to the elite schools. We used to be one of those, but we aren't anymore and haven't been for decades since you know who was our coach.

Kinda like what's happened to Nebraska football in terms of recruiting overall talent. Frank Solich was very successful...until Tom Osborne's recruits exhausted their eligibility. They've been irrelevant nationally ever since.

[denverMU]

I think there is a big difference between Syracuse and MU. Bigs want to play for Syracuse and I suspect it is because they play zone. MU has trouble recruiting bigmen and I suspect they avoid MU, because they do not want to be running all over the court.

Nonsense!  Kentucky, NC, Memphis all run and all get bigs all the time.  Even further nonsense is this notion that there are not many good bigs.  Quick look at ESPN100 for 2011 shows 35 players 6-8 and taller.  A list of the teams include New Mexico St., Charleston, Houston, BC, LSU, Arkansas, George Mason, Va Tech, and others.  We can't compete with these teams? Ridiculous!  We don't get bigs because Buzz wants "switchables".  There are plenty of good bigs, hell every team we play has them!

[4everwarriors]

I always figured 4ever and willie were the only Natives on the board.

Right, kemosabe.

[Jacks DC]

1.  With Otule I think we win that game.  No way Georgetown shoots 84% on 2 point attempts if C.O. is there.
2.  We will smoke them on Senior Day.
3.  We need to offer this guy.  They are already calling him the Otule of India.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=AvknOlKuBjw