Ulthoff Redshirts for Wisconsin...

[NersEllenson]

Not sure this is completely relevant, but found it interesting. UW fans, and Bo were so high on the Jarrod Ulthoff kid from Iowa - comparing him to Gordon Hayward, etc. - yet the kid upon arriving in Madison and practicing...apparently decided he wasn't close to being ready to contribute this year..and followed the longstanding tradition of UW redshirting players and essentially hoping for 1 maybe 2 good years out of the kid as 4th year juniors/5th year seniors.

Personally, I'd like to see the voluntary redshirt done away with - and only allow the medical/hardship waiver redshirt exist.  Level the playing field for all schools, in the sense that the merit of your program is directly tied to your ability to recruit.  Hell, some of these kids are held back a year in high school already, then go on to college, redshirt for a year...and you can have situations where a 23 year old is going up against a just turned 18/19 year old..

[GGGG]

That means that two UW freshmen are redshirting...George Marshall is the other one.  On top of that, they have a transfer who is redshirting as well.

If they want to tie up scholarships for players who aren't ready for D1 ball, that is fine by me.

[brewcity77]

The voluntary redshirt is the only way some mid and low major teams can hope to compete with high majors. I understand bashing high-majors that use it, but it wasn't that long ago that we were a mid-major, and some seem to think it won't be that long until we are again. It's pretty high and mighty to bash a program for using the resources available to them, and while I agree that I think UW overuses it, I definitely disagree with doing away because it's the smaller schools that would be most hurt by it.

In addition, you're only supposed to get one redshirt. Taking the voluntary redshirt as a freshman likely does away with any hope of getting a medical redshirt in case of injury, and definitely takes away any hope of having a redshirt transfer year. I understand there are occasionally second redshirt statuses granted, but they seem to be few and far between.

Who knows how good Uthoff is? Maybe they just don't need him because of Brusewicz, Brust, Berggren and Evans. Maybe they look at Ben Brust and think they wasted a year last year by not redshirting him. Maybe they think they'll get 4-5 good years out of Uthoff once he's into collegiate shape.

Either way...he was never likely to be a factor against us as a freshman. That's hardly a reason to do away with a good rule that makes life better for the lower-tier teams.

[TedBaxter]

Uthoff is a very good player with an excellent skillset.  His body is still developing and with frontcourt players like Brusewicz, Evans and Berggren getting a majority of the minutes the next two years and with Bo Ryan also going to more 3 guard rotations with Taylor, Gasser, Brust/Wilson this year, Jarrod wasn't going to see the minutes as a freshman.  He'll now be able to get some minutes as a freshman next year and when Brusewicz, Evans and Berggren leave in two years, Uthoff, Sam Dekker and Kaminsky will replace them with assistance from Bohannon.

I like programs redshirting a player once in awhile and hope Buzz looks at that more as he goes on, especially when he is recruiting like he is.  For instance, if Buzz thinks Aaron Durley has the potential to be a rotation player down the road and won't see any time behind Otule and Gardner as a freshman, why waste him for a year? 

[NersEllenson]

Clearly many in the talent evaluation field think Ulthoff has some skilss - as I believe he was a 3-star and on the fringe of the Top 100-125?  However, just going off of his highlight video - in my view there was a whole lot of extrapolation going on with regard to his potential.  He didn't look athletic at all, his handle didn't seem very good, etc.  He appeared to see the floor fairly well - but it just looked like there was going to be A LOT of work ahead for him to be able to contribute at a Top 25 program. 

I have no doubt the redshirt was a good idea, as by all accounts, he wasn't ready for any PT this year, by his own conclusion and the coaching staff...

[GGGG]

Clearly many in the talent evaluation field think Ulthoff has some skilss - as I believe he was a 3-star and on the fringe of the Top 100-125?  However, just going off of his highlight video - in my view there was a whole lot of extrapolation going on with regard to his potential.  He didn't look athletic at all, his handle didn't seem very good, etc.  He appeared to see the floor fairly well - but it just looked like there was going to be A LOT of work ahead for him to be able to contribute at a Top 25 program.  

If you substitute "Ulthoff" for "Durley" the paragraph would essentially hold true.  

We've talked about project big men before...we get excited when we have them and point out the weaknesses of other's.

[BCHoopster]

Durley should redshirt next year.  Unless he really dominates Gardner and Otule in practice which I doubt, he will not get any significant minutes next year.  Everybody talks about an 8 or
9 man rotation, that is great with only 11 scholarship players, next year will have 14 if you include Thomas, and he maybe a zone breaker used at times.  Durley redshirts then you have
13 suiting up, still to many.  Practice maybe truly outstanding to see next year.  How I see it:

C - Otule, Gardner, Durley
PF - Wilson and Taylor
PG - Cadougan and Wilson
2G - Mayo, Taylor and Thomas
SF - Blue, Jones, Anderson, and Ferguson

You really have room for 2 redshirts next year.  Where does Ferguson fit, much less Anderson? Is there a go two guy?  This year might be the best team they are going to have with
Crowder and DJO being really good scorers and players.

Buzz needs to recruit another point guard.  Where does Burton fit?  Any ideas who Buzz's number #1 priority is on that last Schoolie?

[Jay Bee]

It's Uthoff vs. Ulthoff and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him.  I think he'll wind up being pretty good, especially in Bo Ryan's sleepy system.

[NersEllenson]

If you substitute "Ulthoff" for "Durley" the paragraph would essentially hold true.  

We've talked about project big men before...we get excited when we have them and point out the weaknesses of other's.

Sorry, but Ulthoff or whatever his name is, is not a "big."  Not even close.  He's a 6'7/6'8 wing in the realm of a Juan Anderson.  I do agree that MU fans have long gotten serious wood over being able to sign any player over 6'9" and have nearly died of blue balls over the dearth of big men coming through the program during the Crean regime. 

[NersEllenson]

Buzz needs to recruit another point guard.  Where does Burton fit?  Any ideas who Buzz's number #1 priority is on that last Schoolie?

I believe the priority has been on a PG, however, if Derrick Wilson continues to show promise, I believe they will sign the best available regardless of position.  One PG we've been linked with is Jaylon Tate of Chicago Simeon...

[GGGG]

Sorry, but Ulthoff or whatever his name is, is not a "big."  Not even close.  He's a 6'7/6'8 wing in the realm of a Juan Anderson.

Yes.  You are correct.  I was mixing him up with the 6'11" guy out of Illinois.

[tower912]

TJ Taylor is a PG.   So next year we will have a senior PG and a pair of sophomore PG's.   So, with the last schollie for 13 (after Burton), you can go for a PG, but it isn't crucial.   (disclaimer: of course someone may transfer or quit or flunk.   Then the calculus changes)    As far as Uthoff, Wisconsin has to do what is best for the player and the program.   If Uthoff and Bo agree, then so be it.     He is skilled, but I remember watching his highlight film back to back with Juan's and it was like they were filmed at a different speed.  

[brewcity77]

Sorry, but Ulthoff or whatever his name is, is not a "big."  Not even close.  He's a 6'7/6'8 wing in the realm of a Juan Anderson.  I do agree that MU fans have long gotten serious wood over being able to sign any player over 6'9" and have nearly died of blue balls over the dearth of big men coming through the program during the Crean regime.

Does it really matter? He's a project player regardless. Plenty of people here are probably wishing that Vander Blue had been a project, at least based on the comments we were hearing from February through early November. Erik Williams and Jamail Jones both might have benefited from a redshirt year. Chris Otule is effectively a redshirt, and undoubtedly better off for it. Who doesn't wish that Junior had kept the redshirt on throughout his freshman year?

Looking forward, I think we will have even more need for redshirts in the future. The way Buzz is recruiting, it will be tough to get minutes for 13 high-major players. Next year, we will likely have 11 guys that seem deserving of minutes, plus a walk-on. If Otule and Gardner are healthy, is there any reason not to redshirt Durley? And if Jamal Ferguson is fourth off the bench at two positions, wouldn't we be better off waiting a year so he can start acclimating once his body has a chance to catch up?

Just because we haven't used a lot of redshirts doesn't mean we shouldn't have. And going forward, I think that we'd be well-advised to start using them more often.

[Boone]

I like Derrick a lot but not as an eventual starter, so Buzz absolutely needs to land a point in the '13 class. Derrick's a solid defender but his offense makes Junior look like Chris Paul by comparison.

[brewcity77]

I like Derrick a lot but not as an eventual starter, so Buzz absolutely needs to land a point in the '13 class. Derrick's a solid defender but his offense makes Junior look like Chris Paul by comparison.

Derrick's played 48 minutes in his college "career". It's hard to say that he can't be a starter by 2013 because of what amounts to little more than a few scrimmages as a true freshman. Classic ESS.

[Boone]

Even if he is a starter in '13, we need another point on the roster. And no, I don't think that point guard is the 6'4" 215 lb. T.J. Taylor's best position. 

[avid1010]

I like Derrick a lot but not as an eventual starter, so Buzz absolutely needs to land a point in the '13 class. Derrick's a solid defender but his offense makes Junior look like Chris Paul by comparison.

I'd like to see Buzz land a big time point guard as well.  I get we haven't seen much of D. Wilson yet, but in the time I have watched him (summer and this season) I haven't seen an ounce of play-making or scoring ability. I think we're in much better shape if he's a four year back-up, but maybe he'll surprise me and develop, but I love a point guard that puts constant pressure on the other teams defense.  I think Junior does this to an extent because of his ability to drive and kick/finish, but in the second half of the Winthrop game his defender was 2ft inside the 3pt line at all times...when teams throw a good zone up, I'd like to have a PG that can knock it down.

[MuMark]

TJ Taylor is a combo guard.

He will likely get most of his minutes at the 2 at least next year.

after Junior graduates his minutes at the one will be determined by Wilson's development, who we recruit in 2013 and how Buzz decides to best use a guy like Mayo.

[tower912]

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2011/05/tj-taylor-joins-marquette.html

He was recruited as a PG to Oklahoma, he was a high ranked PG coming out of HS, he is playing PG at JUCO.   

[Boone]

Ant Adams is Paris JC's primary point guard.

[MuMark]

Big East school lands former OU guard05/02/2011 TexasHoops.com
After leaving Oklahoma University in the fall, 6-foot-4, 215-pound combo guard T.J. Taylor landed at Paris Junior College. Taylor sat out the entire year but still had one program sticking by his side from the Big East Conference, which he decided to commit to Monday night


A 6-3, 217-pound combo guard, Taylor thrived at Denison High School and was a three-time Texas all-state selection. His school's all-time leading scorer, the lefty finished his four-year varsity career with averages of 23.5 points, 7.8 rebounds and 5.8 assists per outing. This past summer he was named MVP of the Texas High School Coaches Association All-Star Game.

I'm not saying he can't play the point but this kid is a scorer. He is more like DJO then Junior.

[NersEllenson]

Does it really matter? He's a project player regardless. Plenty of people here are probably wishing that Vander Blue had been a project, at least based on the comments we were hearing from February through early November. Erik Williams and Jamail Jones both might have benefited from a redshirt year. Chris Otule is effectively a redshirt, and undoubtedly better off for it. Who doesn't wish that Junior had kept the redshirt on throughout his freshman year?

Looking forward, I think we will have even more need for redshirts in the future. The way Buzz is recruiting, it will be tough to get minutes for 13 high-major players. Next year, we will likely have 11 guys that seem deserving of minutes, plus a walk-on. If Otule and Gardner are healthy, is there any reason not to redshirt Durley? And if Jamal Ferguson is fourth off the bench at two positions, wouldn't we be better off waiting a year so he can start acclimating once his body has a chance to catch up?

Just because we haven't used a lot of redshirts doesn't mean we shouldn't have. And going forward, I think that we'd be well-advised to start using them more often.

In my view, the only type of player you redshirt is a big - a la Durley, Otule, perhaps Evan Anderson at WI.  If you have to redshirt wings, guards, etc., it simply speaks to the fact you are not confident in your ability to land consistent talent.  If you feel you have to worry about your ability to land another high caliber player at a guard/wing position - then you would redshirt a guy like Jamail/Erik...but under Buzz it certainly doesn't seem High 3 and 4 star players aren't willing to come to MU if there is not immediate playing time guaranteed/available (which is was the case under Crean).

[MUBurrow]

In my view, the only type of player you redshirt is a big - a la Durley, Otule, perhaps Evan Anderson at WI.  If you have to redshirt wings, guards, etc., it simply speaks to the fact you are not confident in your ability to land consistent talent.  If you feel you have to worry about your ability to land another high caliber player at a guard/wing position - then you would redshirt a guy like Jamail/Erik...but under Buzz it certainly doesn't seem High 3 and 4 star players aren't willing to come to MU if there is not immediate playing time guaranteed/available (which is was the case under Crean).

That's kind of why I'm in the minority that doesn't think Durley will get redshirted.  I think Buzz would just rather trust his ability to restock rather than hold Durley's scholarship the extra year. Especially because an injury to Otule would really put him behind the 8-ball if Durley were redshirted. Gardner's endurance is certainly improving, but an Otule injury next year would really handcuff Buzz in terms of having to play a little small - even DG isn't what you would call a 'long' 6-9.  Not to say that if Otule were to get hurt Durley would play major minutes, but there's no underestimating how important it is to have a big body that can man the 5 and get thrown at other team's bigs.

[brewcity77]

That's kind of why I'm in the minority that doesn't think Durley will get redshirted.  I think Buzz would just rather trust his ability to restock rather than hold Durley's scholarship the extra year. Especially because an injury to Otule would really put him behind the 8-ball if Durley were redshirted. Gardner's endurance is certainly improving, but an Otule injury next year would really handcuff Buzz in terms of having to play a little small - even DG isn't what you would call a 'long' 6-9.  Not to say that if Otule were to get hurt Durley would play major minutes, but there's no underestimating how important it is to have a big body that can man the 5 and get thrown at other team's bigs.

Not sure if you're a minority. I don't think Durley will get redshirted. I think that if we have health, he should be redshirted, but I still don't expect it to happen. Doesn't seem to be Buzz's style unless he needs to do it (like Otule).