Occupy JSonline until Enlund is on twitter

[Chili]

Brewcity77 can speak for himself, but I didn't interpret his pecking order to imply that "we are on the sporting news equivalent of the Admirals and fishing."  I interpreted his pecking order to mean that we're fifth (behind the Packers, Badgers, Brewers and Bucks), and that we're ahead of those other things.  I don't disagree with this relative placement.  Do you?

If you want to discuss the strength of each team's spot on the pecking order I'd suppose it would look like this (and this is coming from someone who hasn't lived in Milwaukee for a number of years, so you all can tell me if I'm nuts):

1.  Packers
Normal Margin
2.  Badgers
Wide Margin
3/4.  Brewers/Bucks
Fairly Narrow Margin
5.  Marquette
Very Wide Margin
6.  Admirals, UWM, fishing, etc.

It goes (and this is for the Milwaukee Area, not the state)

Packers
wide margin
Brewers
Badgers
decent margin
Marquette & Bucks
margin
Preps
Margin
everything else

just to let everyone know, the Brewers had the 3rd highest tv ratings in their home market of all teams in MLB this year.

[BrewCity83]

I would change it to:

Packers
wide margin
Brewers
margin
Badgers Football
decent margin
Bucks
margin
Marquette & Badger Hoops
margin
Preps
Margin
everything else

[dgies9156]

Lots of good points about sports journalism in this discussion. But here's the reality: The JS and JSO decide what their covering based on what maximizes shareholder value. They have a target demographic that buys newspapers and acts on newspaper advertising.

That's what dictates how much coverage anything gets. In addition, newspapers are notoriously cheap. One of the problems today is that the number of reporters has fallen dramatically from just 10 years ago because the number of readers and the number of advertisers also have fallen. So the person who covers Marquette also is covering three or four other things, rather than being a dedicated MU beat writer.

Quite simply, if the JS thought they could sell more newspapers with the Red Rodent of Madison flipping the state off on the front page, guess who would be on the front page? I'm cynical, perhaps, but it's about money and penetrating a specific demographic. I'd don't think they're biased against Marquette, but in their demographic, there's probably more interest in the Packers and Badgers.

As a final thought, as I write this, I'm thinking about a discussion and exercise that Professor Lucas G. Staudacher in Journalism 2 (copy editing) used to put us through. Professor Staudacher posed the question, "what is news?" The answer today is, "whatever sells papers to a demographic group that maximizes return for JS ownership." Professor Staudacher must be turning over in his grave at that thought.

[Eye]

1. Green Bay FB
2. Brewers
3. Wisconsin-Madison FB
4. Bucks
5. Marquette
6. Wisconsin-Madison BKB
7. High school
8. Admirals
9. Everything else

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

You make a great point.  If I were running the MJS sports department, the pecking order would definitely change:

• 1 - My kids' sports
• 1a - Marquette basketball
• 2 - Cleveland Indians
• 3 - Notre Dame football
• 4 - Other Marquette sports
• 5 - Cleveland Cavaliers
• 6 - Cleveland Browns

After all, those are the things I'm interested, so if I was running a newspaper sports department, those are the things I'd focus on.  Trust me, you'd just love reading about my kids' sporting exploits......they're awesome...do you have a couple hours...I'll tell you about it...wanna see some pictures?

I'm liking this idea.  Hey Mods, can we add a category to the Resources section for alumni children sports exploits!?!

[mugrad2006]

I'm liking this idea.  Hey Mods, can we add a category to the Resources section for alumni children sports exploits!?!

This is known as the 'Peter King approach to journalism'

[brewcity77]

Anyone who thinks the JS gives equal coverage to Marquette hoops and Badger hoops is delusional. Bo's team gets much better coverage than Buzz's. In the print edition, it's not even close.

[GGGG]

Anyone who thinks the JS gives equal coverage to Marquette hoops and Badger hoops is delusional. Bo's team gets much better coverage than Buzz's. In the print edition, it's not even close.

Right...because they have a larger fan-base.  Smart business decision.

[wildbillsb]

I asked this in the other thread........but what was Enlund doing with the JS prior to being given the MU beat?

I'd have to imagine the JS would look at the MU beat as a promotion rather then moving a veteran at the paper down to the beat. Seems a perfect assignment to get a reporter to learn the business.

Having a dinosaur who's being put out to pasture doesn't foretell improvement.

Love the mixed metaphor.  Completely apt in a quirky kind of way.  Congrats, you may have coined a new expression.

[Ron Paul]

Well this has gone completely off topic, I don't think asking for the guy to acknowledge the existence of social networks is too much to ask.  I will also say I'm impressed with the little brother complex half of you seem to be working under.  Just remember the squeakiest wheel gets the grease.

Don't worry I already can assume the next response.

Its a poor business decision to have a guy already working on the beat actually do his job.

[reinko]

Well this has gone completely off topic, I don't think asking for the guy to acknowledge the existence of social networks is too much to ask.  I will also say I'm impressed with the little brother complex half of you seem to be working under.  Just remember the squeakiest wheel gets the grease.

Don't worry I already can assume the next response.

Its a poor business decision to have a guy already working on the beat actually do his job.

Did Enlund steal your Charleston Chew as kid?  Put sugar in your gas tank? Possibly stole a lady from you?  You despise this guy.

[Ron Paul]

Did Enlund steal your Charleston Chew as kid?  Put sugar in your gas tank? Possibly stole a lady from you?  You despise this guy.

He may as well have done all of the above.

[brewcity77]

Right...because they have a larger fan-base.  Smart business decision.

Larger fan base, yes. But legitimate fans? How many people drive from Milwaukee to Madison to use their season tickets at the Kohl. How many of them in Milwaukee are really paying attention to Bucky in hoops before late-February/early-March. They usually don't realize basketball season has started until after Badger football is done, and most of them probably aren't tuning in to much college hoops until after the Super Bowl. Maybe I'm way off base, but I've always had the impression that Marquette fans are far more dedicated to their college hoops than Wisconsin fans are, and I don't even really think it's that close. For them, it's something to pass the time until the weather warms up. For us, it's the time of year the sports season revolves around.

Maybe I'm totally off base, but I honestly think that in the offseason, Marquette hoops stories would be just as big, and likely bigger, than UW hoops stories. Especially from August to early November, when they are all focused on what the football team is doing.

[MuMark]

Actually the squeeky wheel doesn't always get the grease but thats another story.

Based on your "occupy" reference it doesn't surprise me that you like to organize "protests".

[AZWarrior]

You make a great point.  If I were running the MJS sports department, the pecking order would definitely change:

• 1 - My kids' sports
• 1a - Marquette basketball
• 2 - Cleveland Indians
• 3 - Notre Dame football
• 4 - Other Marquette sports
• 5 - Cleveland Cavaliers
• 6 - Cleveland Browns

After all, those are the things I'm interested, so if I was running a newspaper sports department, those are the things I'd focus on.  Trust me, you'd just love reading about my kids' sporting exploits......they're awesome...do you have a couple hours...I'll tell you about it...wanna see some pictures?

Notre who?   

[Warrior Forever]

No competition means little coverage.  The Journal-Sentinel is the only game in town and it knows, Marquette, unfortunately, doesn't sell that many papers.

If you're unhappy with the Journal's coverage, where do you turn?


Go Warriors

[TedBaxter]

BrewCity,

I feel you are generalizing.  I know quite a few people here in Madison who follow Badger basketball as their main sport over Badger football and they have season tickets to basketball and not football.  

Don't get me wrong, Badger football is followed by all Badger fans, but there are a good share of Badger basketball and Badger hockey fans.

Marquette is going to be down the line in Journal-Sentinel coverage and I'm not as worried about that as MU will get it's share of local coverage in the coming months.  

[brewcity77]

As I said, I could be totally off base, but I'm referring specifically to fans in Milwaukee. Are there many that are making the trek to Madison weekly for Badger basketball games that aren't following football? I think that in Milwaukee, the pro-football (not to be confused with Pro Football) bias is even more stark, which may seem odd for a non-football town, but in many ways makes sense as Wisconsin is definitely a football state and Milwaukee thus feels football-starved as the two football teams in the state are both at least an hour away.

I'm just of the opinion that when it comes to pecking order, most Marquette fans have that as their top sports priority, or at worst 1a if they are Packer fans. My guess is most Badger fans have their basketball program at best as third behind the Badgers and Packers.

I'm not saying basketball fans don't exist for them, just that in general, the average Marquette fan places a higher priority on Marquette hoops than the average Wisconsin fan does on Badger hoops.

[Eye]

No competition means little coverage.  The Journal-Sentinel is the only game in town.

If you're unhappy with the Journal's coverage, where do you turn?


Go Warriors

Best comment in this thread. No competition. Barring someone challenging them on this front, it won't change, and that still might not even precipitate a change. Thank goodness we have this, the Scout site and Cracked Sidewalks to fill in the gaps, of which there are plenty.

[GGGG]

Larger fan base, yes. But legitimate fans? How many people drive from Milwaukee to Madison to use their season tickets at the Kohl. How many of them in Milwaukee are really paying attention to Bucky in hoops before late-February/early-March. They usually don't realize basketball season has started until after Badger football is done, and most of them probably aren't tuning in to much college hoops until after the Super Bowl. Maybe I'm way off base, but I've always had the impression that Marquette fans are far more dedicated to their college hoops than Wisconsin fans are, and I don't even really think it's that close. For them, it's something to pass the time until the weather warms up. For us, it's the time of year the sports season revolves around.

Maybe I'm totally off base, but I honestly think that in the offseason, Marquette hoops stories would be just as big, and likely bigger, than UW hoops stories. Especially from August to early November, when they are all focused on what the football team is doing.

I think they have a much better understanding of what drives the sales their newspapers than you or I do.

[GGGG]

No competition means little coverage.  The Journal-Sentinel is the only game in town and it knows, Marquette, unfortunately, doesn't sell that many papers.

If you're unhappy with the Journal's coverage, where do you turn?

Well, having "no competition" is an old argument but one that isn't based in reality.  If you limit the communication vehicles to "traditional newspapers" well, yeah...Milwaukee only has one, but that is the case is many cities.

However, there are many web-based services that provide better coverage than the MJS ever had.  If you look at it in that context, there is actually a lot of competition for coverage. 

[brewcity77]

It'll be interesting to see if any of this matters in 10 years. Will the JS still be around? What about 20 years? While their coverage leaves a lot to be desired, the info is out there is you take the time to look, and my guess is most of us taking the time to be on message boards do that.

Granted, I'd rather the JS give us positive press, but I think it's probably a combination of our lack of proactiveness and their agenda (not meant in a negative way). But how many HS kids are reading papers anymore? And in 10-20 years, how many will regard them in the same manner as we do a town crier or telegram?

[StillAWarrior]

Well, having "no competition" is an old argument but one that isn't based in reality.  If you limit the communication vehicles to "traditional newspapers" well, yeah...Milwaukee only has one, but that is the case is many cities.

However, there are many web-based services that provide better coverage than the MJS ever had.  If you look at it in that context, there is actually a lot of competition for coverage. 

I think it's also worth pointing out that even if there was a competing newspaper in Milwaukee, there's really no reason to think that it'd significantly change the "pecking order" for sports coverage from that used by the MJS.  The simple fact of the matter is that in most places, the big state schools have so many more alumni than the private schools that they tend to get favored on the sports pages.  In short, they sell more papers (or at least that is the perception...and it's probably correct).  The fact that the Badger fans in Milwaukee might not be as zealous as the Marquette fans (i.e., don't drive to Madison for games) doesn't change the fact that they significantly outnumber Marquette fans.

Someone who lives there...what's the ratio of Wisconsin to Marquette alumni in Milwaukee?  Is if 5:1?  I found online that Wisconsin has about 388,000 alumni (500,000+ if you consider the whole system); I couldn't find the figure for Marquette.

[Skatastrophy]

It'll be interesting to see if any of this matters in 10 years. Will the JS still be around? What about 20 years? While their coverage leaves a lot to be desired, the info is out there is you take the time to look, and my guess is most of us taking the time to be on message boards do that.

Granted, I'd rather the JS give us positive press, but I think it's probably a combination of our lack of proactiveness and their agenda (not meant in a negative way). But how many HS kids are reading papers anymore? And in 10-20 years, how many will regard them in the same manner as we do a town crier or telegram?

+1

The JS will die when old people die unless the JS (and all other legacy media) figure out how to monetize their content online.

With regards to MU news, I really think it would be worthwhile for fans/alumni to chip in for our own beat reporter.  There have to be plenty of alumni going to all of the games plus it's not a full time job.

Time for Cracked Sidewalks to go big-time, imo.

[Brewtown Andy]

+1

The JS will die when old people die unless the JS (and all other legacy media) figure out how to monetize their content online.

With regards to MU news, I really think it would be worthwhile for fans/alumni to chip in for our own beat reporter.  There have to be plenty of alumni going to all of the games plus it's not a full time job.

Time for Cracked Sidewalks to go big-time, imo.

Really, it just comes down to paying for the road trips.

Which includes the Virgin Islands this year.