Ox vs. Otule

[Clam Crowder]

Taking what I can from such a small scrimmage, Ox looks like the better player offensively by a larger margin than ever. Otule's rebounding, and defense may be superior, but can we afford to not give Davante a substantial amount of playing time this year? If we separate their time at center, who do you all think should get the most PT? After seeing Gardner last night, I could actually see us using him as a Power Forward from time to time. What do you all think?

[Skatastrophy]

Otule had a couple very quick offensive moves as well as running the floor very well.  IMO he was the most improved player out there.  There's no reason he shouldn't get the majority of the time on the floor.

[Clam Crowder]

Otule's biggest problem is the initial catching of the ball. Once he gets the ball he makes some great moves, but he drops the ball frequently. I thought he looked pretty solid, but Ox's offense is hard to leave off the floor. Having a 6 foot 8 guy that is a beast in the paint and can knock down that jumpshot is a pretty valuable thing. Before last night I was not a big fan of the idea of going with the "big" lineup that some have talked of,  but after seeing that Ox seems to have been working on that mid range jumper I could definitely see it working. I thought Jae's jumper looked much more crisp, and Vander's passing seems to have improved a bit. His jumper still needs massive work, but it's a little better now. Our starting lineup will be very very good.

[tower912]

Start the defensive center, bring the offensive machine off of the bench.

[We R Final Four]

Otule's biggest problem is the initial catching of the ball. Once he gets the ball he makes some great moves, but he drops the ball frequently. I thought he looked pretty solid, but Ox's offense is hard to leave off the floor. Having a 6 foot 8 guy that is a beast in the paint and can knock down that jumpshot is a pretty valuable thing. Before last night I was not a big fan of the idea of going with the "big" lineup that some have talked of,  but after seeing that Ox seems to have been working on that mid range jumper I could definitely see it working. I thought Jae's jumper looked much more crisp, and Vander's passing seems to have improved a bit. His jumper still needs massive work, but it's a little better now. Our starting lineup will be very very good.

Agreed.  Which is why I do not understand the interior bounce pass from a penetrating guard to Otule.  He plays above the rim--throw it up to him.  Buzz needs to let the team know, no more bounce passes to Chris unless it is an entry pass only.  HE ONLY HAS ONE EYE--DON'T MAKE LIFE MORE DIFFICULT THAN IT NEEDS TO BE!

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Hangin At the Al? 


 

[GGGG]

Start the defensive center, bring the offensive machine off of the bench.

Agreed.  In certain circumstances you may want more defense than offense from that position...and vice versa.

[Jay Bee]

Hangin At the Al? 

Glad you beat me to it, bro.  I was flippin outraged at this being in The Superbar.

Obviously Davante has done considerable work physically... but, still need to see him in games to see how much stamina he has. 

[Nukem2]

Agreed.  Which is why I do not understand the interior bounce pass from a penetrating guard to Otule.  He plays above the rim--throw it up to him.  Buzz needs to let the team know, no more bounce passes to Chris unless it is an entry pass only.  HE ONLY HAS ONE EYE--DON'T MAKE LIFE MORE DIFFICULT THAN IT NEEDS TO BE!

Agreed.  Said that before we even knew he had only one eye.  Entry passes to Chris need to be chest high.

[Clam Crowder]

I didn't mean to put this in the super bar sorry guys. If it could be moved to Hangin at the Al that would be great. I think Buycks made some difficult passes to Otule. I know Junior and Ox always looked good together last year, but I can't think of a time where Junior and Otule got into that same flow. I would rather have offense early in a game, but I guess it could go either way

[wadesworld]

I didn't mean to put this in the super bar sorry guys. If it could be moved to Hangin at the Al that would be great. I think Buycks made some difficult passes to Otule. I know Junior and Ox always looked good together last year, but I can't think of a time where Junior and Otule got into that same flow. I would rather have offense early in a game, but I guess it could go either way

I think it's more about having a guy on the floor who can score when the starters tire/leave the game.  If you start Dougie, DJO, Wilson, Crowder, and Ox, and 5-8 minutes in Crowder and DJO are in foul trouble and Ox is tired, then you have a lineup of Dougie, Blue, Wilson, Jones, and O'Tule, where does the scoring come from?  Defense focuses Wilson and we go 5 minutes with 5 points.  You need some sort of offense off of the bench, especially when there is so much already in the starting lineup.  Ox can provide that and he'll be fresh.

[Benny B]

Start the defensive center, bring the offensive machine off of the bench.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes... 100% absolutely correct.

Ox is not a starter yet - at least not this year.  However, he is my preseason pick for 6th man of the year.

Otule is going to contribute to this team primarily as a shot blocker/disruptor.  However, if he can draw fouls from his counterpart (or through solid positioning set up his slashers to draw fouls down low) to he is going to open the doors for Ox to be an offensive beast.

[BrewCity83]

I don't think we can expect to see both of them on the floor much together because they are both foul prone and tend to need their rest.  If we can get 20 mins. per game out of each of them I think we will all be really happy with the results.

[brewcity77]

Agreed.  Which is why I do not understand the interior bounce pass from a penetrating guard to Otule.  He plays above the rim--throw it up to him.  Buzz needs to let the team know, no more bounce passes to Chris unless it is an entry pass only.  HE ONLY HAS ONE EYE--DON'T MAKE LIFE MORE DIFFICULT THAN IT NEEDS TO BE!

That will largely be solved by attrition. Buycks was the worst for that bounce pass. Hopefully Caddy will recognize this.

As far as minutes, Otule has to start. Watching that jump ball Friday, we're flat out conceding the first possession if DG starts. I don't expect he'll ever be taking the opening tip for us.

As far as minutes, I think we see about 22-25 for CO and 10-15 for Ox. Not having his offense at times will hurt, but he'll also be more effective offensively if he's kept fresh. I'm not sure anyone on our team's play suffers more from fatigue than Gardner.

[GOO]

Asking guards who are slashing towards the hoop to not dump off low or give Otule a bounce pass is a good idea... but it is hard to ask players to change something like that for one player after it is something guards have done for their whole lives.  Expect low dump offs and bounce passes to Otule.  Slashing players get into trouble and either have to try to finish or dump off, but you may see players try to finish more often rather than dump it off to Otule.

I expect OTule to rebound better this year and finish better, from what I saw.  More agressive.  I know it is only a practice and not all players were going at it really hard.

Gardner is special.  However, I hope he doesn't all of a sudden see himself as a shooter.  He needs to play down low.  I noticed coach's saying the same to him. It is great that he can draw defenders out, I just don't want him to go away from his bread and butter punishing ways down low.  Get the other teams big men in foul trouble instead of us for a change this year.  Maybe an occassional three within the offense or as a trailer.  It will be nice if the opposing 5 has to pick him up as a trailer near the 3 pont line... opens up the floor.  

[We R Final Four]

If we should expect low dump off and bounce passes to Otule because guards have been doing it their whole lives, then expect turnovers.  Pretty simple.  Our expectations should be to get the ball to Chris where he can do something with it.............and that is somewhere around 9'+.  Otule has the wingspan of Shaq and we should be satisfied with a dump off at his ankles because the guards have been doing it their whole lives?  Nah, I don't think so.

[Canadian Dimes]

This team will score....otule is by far the better defender.  Otule gets the bulk of the minutes.

two bigs is fine...the only problem is Gardner then needs to guard 4's.  Most 4's in CBB are 6'5 to 6'7 or smaller.  Can he guard them?  not most of them.  If a team chooses to go real big against us or they have a 4 who cant score we may see some of it.

[wadesworld]

If we should expect low dump off and bounce passes to Otule because guards have been doing it their whole lives, then expect turnovers.  Pretty simple.  Our expectations should be to get the ball to Chris where he can do something with it.............and that is somewhere around 9'+.  Otule has the wingspan of Shaq and we should be satisfied with a dump off at his ankles because the guards have been doing it their whole lives?  Nah, I don't think so.

How in the world are you going to do anything but bounce passes to the low post from a slash?  When somebody is driving with the ball, that is the only option.  There are so many bodies and so many arms in the paint, and when somebody is driving they are all drawn in the driver's direction.  There is no way you can make a chest pass when driving down the lane to a guy in the paint.  None.  The ball will never get through.

[brewcity77]

How in the world are you going to do anything but bounce passes to the low post from a slash?  When somebody is driving with the ball, that is the only option.  There are so many bodies and so many arms in the paint, and when somebody is driving they are all drawn in the driver's direction.  There is no way you can make a chest pass when driving down the lane to a guy in the paint.  None.  The ball will never get through.

Honestly, he shouldn't be getting passes he's not calling for. When CO calls for the ball in the post, he rarely turns it over. When someone forces him the ball in the post, he usually turns it over. Forcing a bounce-pass to him that he isn't ready for is a recipe for disaster. Quite simply, doing things that are likely to create turnovers isn't wise.

[NersEllenson]

Best to bring Gardner off the bench...and in situational matchups.  "Second team" will probably need some scoring punch, and Gardner can absolutely provide it.

My guess is that DG will average about 20 minutes per game this year.  His improved conditioning, athleticism will help him on the defensive end, and to be able to sustain a high level of play for longer stretches...

[mug644]

I think it's more about having a guy on the floor who can score when the starters tire/leave the game.  If you start Dougie, DJO, Wilson, Crowder, and Ox, and 5-8 minutes in Crowder and DJO are in foul trouble and Ox is tired, then you have a lineup of Dougie, Blue, Wilson, Jones, and O'Tule, where does the scoring come from?  Defense focuses Wilson and we go 5 minutes with 5 points.  You need some sort of offense off of the bench, especially when there is so much already in the starting lineup.  Ox can provide that and he'll be fresh.

Dougie? It seriously took me too long to figure out who you were talking about, even when wondering why you didn't include Junior. Maybe I'm thick, but I don't think I've heard that nickname for him, and will admit that I don't like it.

[Clam Crowder]

Pretty sure it's not a nickname for him...it doesn't even make sense. I was wondering the same thing...lol

[We R Final Four]

How in the world are you going to do anything but bounce passes to the low post from a slash?  When somebody is driving with the ball, that is the only option.  There are so many bodies and so many arms in the paint, and when somebody is driving they are all drawn in the driver's direction.  There is no way you can make a chest pass when driving down the lane to a guy in the paint.  None.  The ball will never get through.

There is another option.  It is called a lob pass. Alley-oop.  I agree with you that there are so many bodies and so many arms.........that is why the ONLY OPTION is to go up high with it.

[GGGG]

There is another option.  It is called a lob pass. Alley-oop. 

Off a slashing drive?  Don't think so....

[GOO]

The only pass Otule can handle consistently is the dump off and lob pass that are not thrown to close to him and especially too fast. He needs slower passes, those are the facts from the man himself.

To the above poster:  I am not talking about passes at Otule's ankles.  Should the guards try not to throw the ball too hard to him and not throw low passes... of course... but we have to expect that it is going to happen.  If you've ever played and are driving and a defender comes off a big man to cut you off, you have a passing lane often open for a second, or the option of a bounce pass or if in tight a lob.  The guards have to know that the lob, not to fast, is what Otule can handle.  And, of course they know this.

  But, expect Otule to get passes he can't handle when guards see the opening for a second, they are about to be cut off and doubled or they are in the air and drawing Otule's defender.  In an ideal world the correct decision would always be made, but be realistic and don't be the idiot screaming and yelling at a guard who gives Otule a pass a little too fast for him to handle or a bounce pass.