29 years ago today...

[GGGG]

That’s a lot in DI.. where does 4 rank? (PS-the comment was re: “colleges and high schools”, so the DI info is a small piece, but gotta be a top 5, yaaas?)

Eagles is number 1, but that may or not include Golden. My intuitive sense is that most Eagles are not Golden. According to Wikipedia:

“The 12 most-used names of four-year college teams (exclusive of names with attached adjectives such as “Blue”, “Golden”, “Flying” or “Fighting”): Eagles (76), Tigers (46), Bulldogs (40), Panthers (33), Knights (32), Lions (32), Bears (30), Hawks (28), Cougars (27), Pioneers (28), Warriors (27) and Wildcats (27).”

But it is a generic nickname.

[Jay Bee]

I'm sure the student who played him was. The character was just a racist caricature.

Wouldn’t your claim be that the student was being racist?

[GooooMarquette]

Actually, there are only 4 D1 schools  - just us, USM, Tennessee Tech, and Oral Roberts.

True, only 4 Golden Eagles...but if you added other Eagles, the number jumps considerably. Distinguishing them is like distinguishing the Baylor “Bears” from the Maine “Black Bears.”

If we had to change, we should have just gone back to Hilltoppers.

[sodakmu87]

Just one game a year, perhaps with Al's Night,  MU should do a throw-back Thursday game with a Back to the 70's theme and make it a Warriors game.  Bring out the Killer Bees uniforms ---but have them as warmups over the current ones--and have the team call themselves Wojos Warriors for one night.  Just one night.  Presto.  Geezers like us will be happy.  Sadly I graduated from two schools that made name changes after I left.  University of North Dakota and Marquette.  Fighting Hawk anyone?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That’s a lot in DI.. where does 4 rank? (PS-the comment was re: “colleges and high schools”, so the DI info is a small piece, but gotta be a top 5, yaaas?)

I was bored on the crapper so I decided to look into this. Turns out Golden Eagles is not in the top 5, they aren't even in the top 10. They are tied with a few other schools for 12th.

1. 13 Bulldogs (Alabama A&M, Butler, The Citadel, Drake, Fresno State, Georgia, Gonzaga, Louisiana Tech, Mississippi State, Samford, South Carolina State, UNC Asheville, Yale)
2. 12 Tigers (Auburn, Clemson, Grambling State, Jackson State, LSU, Memphis, Missouri, Pacific, Princeton, Tennessee State, Texas Southern, Towson)
3. 10 Wildcats (Abilene Christian, Arizona, Bethune-Cookman, Davidson, Kansas State, Kentucky, New Hampshire, Northwestern, Villanova, Weber State)
4. 9 Eagles (American, Boston College, Coppin State, Eastern Michigan, Eastern Washington, Florida Gulf Coast, Morehead State, North Carolina Central, Winthrop)
5. 8 Panthers (Eastern Illinois, Florida International, Georgia State, High Point, Milwaukee, Northern Iowa, Pitt, Prairie View A&M)
6. 7 Bears (Baylor, Brown, Central Arkansas, Mercer, Missouri State, Morgan State, Northern Colorado)
T-7. 5 Aggies (New Mexico State, North Carolina A&T, Texas A&M, UC Davis, Utah State)
T-7. 5 Cougars (BYU, Chicago State, Houston, SIU-Edwardsville, Washington State)
T-7. 5 Hawks (Hartford, Maryland Eastern Shore, Monmouth, North Dakota, St. Joe's)
T-7. 5 Huskies (UConn, Houston Baptist, Northeastern, Northern Illinois, Washington)
T-7. 5 Spartans (Michigan State, Norfolk State, UNC Greensboro, San Jose State, South Carolina Upstate)
T-12. 4 Bobcats (Montana State, Ohio, Quinnipiac, Texas State)
T-12. 4 Cardinals (Ball State, Incarnate Word, Lamar, Louisville)
T-12. 4 Golden Eagles (Marquette, Oral Roberts, Southern Miss, Tennessee Tech)
T-12. 4 Lions (Arkansas Pine-Bluff, Columbia, Loyola Marymount, North Alabama)
T-12. 4 Owls (Florida Atlantic, Kennesaw State, Temple, Rice)
T-17. 3 Bearcats (Cincinnati, Binghamton, Sam Houston State)
T-17. 3 Bison (Bucknell, Howard, North Dakota State)
T-17. 3 Broncos (Boise State, Santa Clara, Western Michigan)
T-17. 3 Cowboys (McNeese State, Oklahoma State, Wyoming)
T-17. 3 Highlanders (NJIT, Radford, UC Riverside)
T-17. 3 Hornets (Alabama State, Delaware State, Sacramento State)
T-17. 3 Jaguars (IUPUI, South Alabama, Southern)
T-17. 3 Mountaineers (Appalachian State, Mount St. Mary's, West Virginia)
T-17. 3 Rams (Colorado State, Fordham, Rhode Island)
T-17. 3 Trojans (Little Rock, USC, Troy)
T-27. 2 49ers (UNC Charlotte, Long Beach State)
T-27. 2 Blue Devils (Central Connecticut, Duke)
T-27. 2 Braves (Alcorn State, Bradley)
T-27. 2 Bruins (Belmont, UCLA)
T-27. 2 Buccaneers (Charleston Southern, East Tennessee State)
T-27. 2 Colonials (George Washington, Robert Morris)
T-27. 2 Colonels (Eastern Kentucky, Nicholls State)
T-27. 2 Crusaders (Holy Cross, Valparaiso)
T-27. 2 Dukes (Duquesne, James Madison)
T-27. 2 Falcons (Air Force, Bowling Green)
T-27. 2 Flames (Liberty, UIC)
T-27. 2 Gaels (Iona, St. Mary's)
T-27. 2 Gamecocks (Jacksonville State, South Carolina)
T-27. 2 Knights (UCF, Fairleigh Dickinson)
T-27. 2 Lancers (California Baptist, Longwood)
T-27. 2 Lumberjacks (Northern Arizona, Stephen F Austin)
T-27. 2 Mavericks (Omaha, UT Arlington)
T-27. 2 Mustangs (Cal Poly, SMU)
T-27. 2 Phoenix (Elon, UWGB)
T-27. 2 Pioneers (Denver, Sacred Heart)
T-27. 2 Pirates (East Carolina, Seton Hall)
T-27. 2 Raiders (Colgate, Wright State)
T-27. 2 Rebels (Ole Miss, UNLV)
T-27. 2 Redhawks (Miami [OH] Seattle)
T-27. 2 Roadrunners (Cal State Bakersfield, UTSA)
T-27. 2 Seahawks (UNC-Wilmington, Wagner)
T-27. 2 Titans (CSU Fullerton, Detroit Mercy)
T-27. 2 Vikings (Cleveland State, Portland State)
T-27. 2 Wolfpack (Nevada, NC State)
T-27. 2 Wolverines (Michigan, Utah Valley State)
T-57. 1 Everyone Else (159 unique names)

194/353 Division One teams share a mascot with at least one other Division One team.

This post is not for or against Golden Eagles, was honestly just curious what the breakdown was.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wouldn’t your claim be that the student was being racist?

Yes. I would consider the creation of Willie Wampum to be a racist action by the student. That doesn't exclude him from being a good student, friend, and Warrior as Warrior69 put it. Most good students, friends, and Warriors I know have done racist things from time to time, myself included.

[4everwarriors]

I knew Willie Wampum and he was a really good student, friend and Warrior; not a footnote.

Hell 69'er, I'm pretty sure ewe new Padre' Marquette personally, aina?

[Lennys Tap]

Yes. I would consider the creation of Willie Wampum to be a racist action by the student. That doesn't exclude him from being a good student, friend, and Warrior as Warrior69 put it. Most good students, friends, and Warriors I know have done racist things from time to time, myself included.

For the life of me i don't understand why you and other bright people around here are unable to put things in context. We don't even know some of the horrible things we're all doing today because they haven't been defined as horrible yet. Geesh.

[Jay Bee]

For the life of me i don't understand why you and other bright people around here are unable to put things in context. We don't even know some of the horrible things we're all doing today because they haven't been defined as horrible yet. Geesh.

I think a large part of it is that these individuals want to feel good about themselves so they “speak out” about these “injustices” and there is a feeling of righteous and strength they get. Bizarre, but not uncommon.

[4everwarriors]

Self-righteous, aka #hypocrites, aina?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

For the life of me i don't understand why you and other bright people around here are unable to put things in context. We don't even know some of the horrible things we're all doing today because they haven't been defined as horrible yet. Geesh.

I can understand why the strong rhetoric, r-word etc, triggers a defensive response.  But if you want a dose of 'contra'-context, the Warriors were birthed in a Native American fever that swept Milwaukee with the arrival of the Braves from Boston - MKE had arrived as a MLB Town!  No nobel cause or long lineage.  Marquette celebrated the trend, adopted the Warriors as the students adopted this fever and as luck would have it become a national power in college basketball.

I personally dont think anyone had mal-intent in this endeavor - but respect the decision that the Jesuits made (particularly the second time) - that there is no going back (or at least back to this time and not back to the other two nicknames MU held).

[Dr. Blackheart]

For the record, Willie Wampum was gone in 1971, 22 years before Marquette dropped the Warriors.  I wasn't around then like some of you cats, but with the book "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" being released the year before, I am pretty sure the student body universally saw Willie as a racist stereotype back then. 

Fast forward, Willie had nothing to do with dropping the Warrior name two decades later other than as a convenient excuse/target. In fact, MU tried extensively to work with the Native Americans to bring in the appropriate heritage.  Willie was an excuse that had long expired but a myth that lasts to this day. The MU President, who effed up everything he touched, caved when all he had to do was change the imagery.

End of the day, like most things, MU screwed the pooch and picked a mascot that has absolutely no connection to the school.  A lame attempt at political correctness only made worse by the ill-fated Gold debacle. They literally picked a mascot that was a knock-off of the San Diego Chicken, made palatable by a few posters here who donned the Big Bird feathers with aplomb.

https://wiki.muscoop.com/lib/exe/detail.php/nickname/williewampum.jpg?id=nickname%3Awillie_wampum

[Herman Cain]

I still think the name should have been Jumpin' Jesuits.

[GGGG]

For the record, Willie Wampum was gone in 1971, 22 years before Marquette dropped the Warriors.  I wasn't around then like some of you cats, but with the book "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" being released the year before, I am pretty sure the student body universally saw Willie as a racist stereotype back then. 

Fast forward, Willie had nothing to do with dropping the Warrior name two decades later other than as a convenient excuse/target. In fact, MU tried extensively to work with the Native Americans to bring in the appropriate heritage.  Willie was an excuse that had long expired but a myth that lasts to this day. The MU President, who effed up everything he touched, caved when all he had to do was change the imagery.

End of the day, like most things, MU screwed the pooch and picked a mascot that has absolutely no connection to the school.  A lame attempt at political correctness only made worse by the ill-fated Gold debacle. They literally picked a mascot that was a knock-off of the San Diego Chicken, made palatable by a few posters here who donned the Big Bird feathers with aplomb.

https://wiki.muscoop.com/lib/exe/detail.php/nickname/williewampum.jpg?id=nickname%3Awillie_wampum

Trying to work with Native Americans on appropriate heritage was the problem.  If they would have changed the imagery when they dropped Willie, my guess is that they would still be Warriors today.

[GGGG]

For the life of me i don't understand why you and other bright people around here are unable to put things in context. We don't even know some of the horrible things we're all doing today because they haven't been defined as horrible yet. Geesh.

That doesn't mean that Willie wasn't a racist image.  It most definitely was.  That doesn't mean I condemn Marquette for using the image.  It was common back then.  But it was still racist.

I think a large part of it is that these individuals want to feel good about themselves so they “speak out” about these “injustices” and there is a feeling of righteous and strength they get. Bizarre, but not uncommon.

It was a racist image.  To recognize that fact has nothing to do with feeling good about myself.  It is stating the obvious.

Self-righteous, aka #hypocrites, aina?

I love when people say stuff like this when they really have no argument against the facts.  They think it makes them sound smart.

[noblewarrior]

Is EVERYTHING that is racist bad?

[Dr. Blackheart]

Trying to work with Native Americans on appropriate heritage was the problem.  If they would have changed the imagery when they dropped Willie, my guess is that they would still be Warriors today.

Agreed.  It was also very awkward back then as well as it is today, in retrospect.

[MU82]

Is EVERYTHING that is racist bad?

Can you please provide an example of something racist that is "good"?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

For the life of me i don't understand why you and other bright people around here are unable to put things in context. We don't even know some of the horrible things we're all doing today because they haven't been defined as horrible yet. Geesh.

Who said I can't put things in context? I'm not calling for the student to be hunted down and shamed. I am stating a fact, Willie Wampum was a racist caricature. He was then and he is now. It was more socially acceptable back then so I absolutely understand why it happened and why it was accepted. I trust Warrior69 when he says that he was a great person and making Willie doesn't change that. He did something racist, like every other person in human history has done at multiple points in their life.

[NorthernDancerColt]

Can you please provide an example of something racist that is "good"?

AUNT JEMIMA's Syrup and Pancake Mix.

UNCLE BEN'S Rice.

[real chili 83]

AUNT JEMIMA's Syrup and Pancake Mix.

UNCLE BEN'S Rice.

Saltine crackers

[noblewarrior]

Can you please provide an example of something racist that is "good"?

Who decides what is and what isn’t racist?

There are obvious examples like separate bathrooms and bubblers, or the use of terms such as the ‘N Word’ and Redskin, but if I say I don’t like rap music am I being racist?  Some might think so.  I don’t.

I like jazz, the blues, and zydeco... does that now exempt my not liking rap music as being racist by those who would deem me as such?  It just might but maybe not.

Is using this example racist because I’m equating certain music genres with black Americans?  If this example is racist is it intrinsically ‘bad’ as a result or is using an example that is racist ‘good’ because it is being used in the context of a discussion?  Does something racist have to be ‘bad’ or ‘good’ or can it just be what it is..... racist? 

My wife calls me ‘Cracker’ all the time... I’m of European descent she is not.  That’s racist right?  I wouldn’t say that’s bad because she uses that term in private familial settings and in an affectionate manner.  So in this case, can the blatant racist term be good? Context matter.  She’s also not black so is this now cultural appropriation and as a result back to being racist? 

I no longer think what is and what isn’t racist is objective but has increasingly become subjective as the label has been politicized over the last two decades but that’s just my opinion and not a fact.

AUNT JEMIMA's Syrup and Pancake Mix.

UNCLE BEN'S Rice.

UNCLE BEN’S Rice is perfect every time.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Who decides what is and what isn’t racist?

There are obvious examples like separate bathrooms and bubblers, or the use of terms such as the ‘N Word’ and Redskin, but if I say I don’t like rap music am I being racist?  Some might think so.  I don’t.

I like jazz, the blues, and zydeco... does that now exempt my not liking rap music as being racist by those who would deem me as such?  It just might but maybe not.

Is using this example racist because I’m equating certain music genres with black Americans?  If this example is racist is it intrinsically ‘bad’ as a result or is using an example that is racist ‘good’ because it is being used in the context of a discussion?  Does something racist have to be ‘bad’ or ‘good’ or can it just be what it is..... racist? 

My wife calls me ‘Cracker’ all the time... I’m of European descent she is not.  That’s racist right?  I wouldn’t say that’s bad because she uses that term in private familial settings and in an affectionate manner.  So in this case, can the blatant racist term be good? Context matter.  She’s also not black so is this now cultural appropriation and as a result back to being racist? 

I no longer think what is and what isn’t racist is objective but has increasingly become subjective as the label has been politicized over the last two decades but that’s just my opinion and not a fact.
UNCLE BEN’S Rice is perfect every time.

Eminem and Macklemore are two examples of white rappers.   Disliking rap music is not racist.   Stereotyping rap music as "black" might be racist.

[GGGG]

Who decides what is and what isn’t racist?

There are obvious examples like separate bathrooms and bubblers, or the use of terms such as the ‘N Word’ and Redskin, but if I say I don’t like rap music am I being racist?  Some might think so.  I don’t.

I like jazz, the blues, and zydeco... does that now exempt my not liking rap music as being racist by those who would deem me as such?  It just might but maybe not.

Is using this example racist because I’m equating certain music genres with black Americans?  If this example is racist is it intrinsically ‘bad’ as a result or is using an example that is racist ‘good’ because it is being used in the context of a discussion?  Does something racist have to be ‘bad’ or ‘good’ or can it just be what it is..... racist? 

My wife calls me ‘Cracker’ all the time... I’m of European descent she is not.  That’s racist right?  I wouldn’t say that’s bad because she uses that term in private familial settings and in an affectionate manner.  So in this case, can the blatant racist term be good? Context matter.  She’s also not black so is this now cultural appropriation and as a result back to being racist? 

I no longer think what is and what isn’t racist is objective but has increasingly become subjective as the label has been politicized over the last two decades but that’s just my opinion and not a fact.
UNCLE BEN’S Rice is perfect every time.

Your rap example is silly because (a) there are rappers of all different races, and (b) you aren't saying "I don't like black rap music."  You just dislike a certain genre.  That is in no way racist.

But objectively the Willie Wampum character was racist. 

Look, no one is condemning the University for using the character.  No one is blaming the people who made it, who very likely had no ill intent.  In fact the University tried (clumsily) to be more respectable with the Native imagery and it just didn't work.

Uncle Bens and Aunt Jemima clearly used racist imagery in the past to promote their products.  While those brands still exist, and I don't see any reason why they shouldn't, the imagery used now isn't racist.  Just like I think Marquette could have used non-racist imagery and kept the Warrior nickname.  Which is why DiUlio and the BOT erred.  (Regardless of the apparent conditions of accepting the gift from the Potowanami.)

I mean, I don't know why that is hard to understand. 

[🏀]

Eminem and Macklemore are two examples of white rappers.   Disliking rap music is not racist.   Stereotyping rap music as "black" might be racist.

Beasties, El-P, Vanilla Ice, Snow, Marky Mark, Everlast,  Mac Lethal... long list