Buzz is getting it done..

[NersEllenson]

My man crush on Buzz Williams around here is well known among veteran Scoop posters - that aside, I felt it was time to start a topic discussing Buzz.

The guy has been a great ambassador of MU, works his ASS off, has shown loyalty in the face of major temptation (OU, Texas A&M, Arkansas), and is recruiting at a level better than any MU coach since Al McGuire...and not to mention took us to a Sweet 16 last year.

The off court incidents this past season were perhaps a bit of a black eye, though not sure Buzz can really control what happens between 19 year old boys and girls in the heat of the moment.  Hopefully we won't see any more of those episodes any time soon - though it is almost unfortunately part of the high major college athletics landscape on occasion in this day and age.

I'd like to hear others reactions - even the haters - Golden Avalanche, 84, etc.

[Skatastrophy]

My man crush on Buzz Williams around here is well known among veteran Scoop posters - that aside, I felt it was time to start a topic discussing Buzz.

The guy has been a great ambassador of MU, works his ASS off, has shown loyalty in the face of major temptation (OU, Texas A&M, Arkansas), and is recruiting at a level better than any MU coach since Al McGuire...and not to mention took us to a Sweet 16 last year.

The off court incidents this past season were perhaps a bit of a black eye, though not sure Buzz can really control what happens between 19 year old boys and girls in the heat of the moment.  Hopefully we won't see any more of those episodes any time soon - though it is almost unfortunately part of the high major college athletics landscape on occasion in this day and age.

Agreed.  I'm very impressed with Buzz continually making Marquette better.  As long as the hijinks from last year was an aberration I'm a very happy camper

[Boone]

He's absolutely getting it done. To argue otherwise would be asinine.

[BCHoopster]

Ners, not sure if I am sold on Buzz's recruiting those JC kids.  Do you really think any of those kids will graduate?  If all you care about
is what happens on the court then Buzz is doing a great job.  He recruits his ass off, there is no question about that.  Concerned about
what happened last year off the court.  I know Buzz had to work hard to keep the program strong.  Crean left to a program in shambles and
lost the last 3 years.  MU has not had a letdown.  The future is bright, like getting high school kids for 4 years but MU has to take what they
can get.  There are at least 15 teams it is hard to recruit against,  Buzz is not afraid to go up against them.  What I like is that you lose more
kids than you get,  Buzz keeps going.  I am sure TC did not do that nor does Bo Ryan.  They go after a few kids, hope they win.  Win they
lose it is very hard.  Jarmusz/Evan Turner.  Buzz recruits more of the nation, MU's budget lets him do that.  Steve Taylor was an important
recruit, so is Burton.  Need to keep a base in Wisco and Illinois.  He has made a few mistakes, all young coaches do that.  Overall, you have
to happy with Buzz.  Has to recruit high character kids, I think he is now.  I think MU administration looked the other way on some of his
earlier recruits, maybe they had to.

[GGGG]

Well, TC didn't leave the program in "shambles."  But clearly Buzz has been better when it comes to getting talent in here.  It seems to me that he has moved off of the JUCOs now that he has regular stock of HS players coming in.  An occasional Juco transfer is fine by me - many programs do that and I hardly think of it as a black eye.  (And I don't really count TJ Taylor as a Juco...he is essentially a transfer who is playing this year instead of sitting on our bench.)

Like others have said, keep the off the court problems to a minimum and I think he will be great for MU.

[BCHoopster]

Well, TC didn't leave the program in "shambles."  But clearly Buzz has been better when it comes to getting talent in here.  It seems to me that he has moved off of the JUCOs now that he has regular stock of HS players coming in.  An occasional Juco transfer is fine by me - many programs do that and I hardly think of it as a black eye.  (And I don't really count TJ Taylor as a Juco...he is essentially a transfer who is playing this year instead of sitting on our bench.)

Like others have said, keep the off the court problems to a minimum and I think he will be great for MU.

In shambles was going to Indiana, that is the program that was in a mess.  When Buzz took over, TC left a program in pretty good shape.  Buzz improved it,
helped Wes and Lazar become pros.  Buzz got Jimmy and if there is an NBA a pro as well.  That is what kids look for, it might be wrong, but all 17 year olds
want a degree in basketball, called NBA.  I have no problem with Taylor as MU got him on the rebound from a 4 year school.  He is like a transfer.

[tower912]

      As long as the Newbill situation and the off-court escapades from last year are the outlier and not the norm, I agree.    BChoopster, if you look at his recruiting, he recruited JUCO's  the first year or two as he needed to bring in guys quick and that was his base.   Same with the Texas kids early.    He went with them becaue he already had the relationships built.   In his mind, this was the best way to manage the transition, as he felt the need to keep MU at a high level.   He did not want the big dip that IU has gone through; he didn't think he could afford it.  
      Look at his recruiting now.   Drawing in top 100 kids from all over the country.  On this year's roster, we will have two JUCO's.    Next year, we will have one, and he should come with an asterisk.   And of the JUCO's he brought in, which one(s) do you feel failed to represent MU in the best possible fashion?   If you are philosophically opposed to them, I would ask why.    Al had them.   Majerus had them.   Crean had them.   Bobby Knight won his last championship starting 2.     What is the problem?
     Right now, Buzz is bringing them in.    It sure is fun to think how good MU can be.    Inevitable concerns are:    Can he manage all of the egos and how long can he hold on to his assistants?    Having too many good players and in-demand assistants are good problems to have.  
    

[NersEllenson]

BC Hoop - It appears that the one player involved in the most serious of last year's off court incidents was not a JC player...but rather a transfer from another university.

I have NO problem with Buzz recruiting Junior College players - and do not think it is accurate that just because they went to Junior College they:  A) Won't graduate, or B) Aren't as good of person as a kid coming out of high school.

Fulce, Jimmy Butler have been great kids at MU...and to my knowledge DJO, Crowder and Buycks have been solid as well.  I have NO doubt that all of these kids having played under Buzz/schooled at MU - will have grown tremendously as people, and advanced their chances at success post MU....regardless of if they have a formal degree or not.  I'm not terribly wrapped up in the degree thing - though certainly would like for all MU players to earn their degree.  The discipline, teamwork, adversity lessons, time commitments, etc., that these guys learn from their commitment to Buzz/MU/Basketball team - will have great value to them in their lives moving forward - perhaps more than a formal degree...

[BCHoopster]

     As long as the Newbill situation and the off-court escapades from last year are the outlier and not the norm, I agree.    BChoopster, if you look at his recruiting, he recruited JUCO's  the first year or two as he needed to bring in guys quick and that was his base.   Same with the Texas kids early.    He went with them becaue he already had the relationships built.   In his mind, this was the best way to manage the transition, as he felt the need to keep MU at a high level.   He did not want the big dip that IU has gone through; he didn't think he could afford it.  
      Look at his recruiting now.   Drawing in top 100 kids from all over the country.  On this year's roster, we will have two JUCO's.    Next year, we will have one, and he should come with an asterisk.   And of the JUCO's he brought in, which one(s) do you feel failed to represent MU in the best possible fashion?   If you are philosophically opposed to them, I would ask why.    Al had them.   Majerus had them.   Crean had them.   Bobby Knight won his last championship starting 2.     What is the problem?
     Right now, Buzz is bringing them in.    It sure is fun to think how good MU can be.    Inevitable concerns are:    Can he manage all of the egos and how long can he hold on to his assistants?    Having too many good players and in-demand assistants are good problems to have.  
    

If you think it is OK to recruit JC kids that will probably never graduate school then great.  Lets see if any of them graduate?  They have questionable grades to begin with.
Look, Buzz had to what he had to do to keep his job.  I have no issue with that.  McGuire recruited JC kids as well.  Walton, Whitehead, Lackey all were JC kids, they turned out pretty
good.  I can not answer the question about who represented MU well or not, bit none will graduate and not sure who the 4 were in the questionable case.  

[GGGG]

BC...my apologies regarding TC.  I mis-read it.  But honestly, your posts are very hard to read because you use carriage returns instead of just letting the text wrap.  I don't know why you do that.

And why are you so against Jucos?  Some, like JFB, were full qualifiers out of high school, but went Juco to improve their basketball prospects.  The non-qualifiers (like DB and Jae) have actually had to earn an associates degree in order to be eligible.  That is at least some sort of accomplishment.

Let me put it another way...it would be nice if all of our players could graduate.  There is nothing to indicate that Jucos perform worse academically than our four year guys though.

[Knight Commission]

My man crush on Buzz Williams around here is well known among veteran Scoop posters - that aside, I felt it was time to start a topic discussing Buzz.

The guy has been a great ambassador of MU, works his ASS off, has shown loyalty in the face of major temptation (OU, Texas A&M, Arkansas), and is recruiting at a level better than any MU coach since Al McGuire...and not to mention took us to a Sweet 16 last year.

The off court incidents this past season were perhaps a bit of a black eye, though not sure Buzz can really control what happens between 19 year old boys and girls in the heat of the moment.  Hopefully we won't see any more of those episodes any time soon - though it is almost unfortunately part of the high major college athletics landscape on occasion in this day and age.

I'd like to hear others reactions - even the haters - Golden Avalanche, 84, etc.

I agree with the comment he is getting it done. Anther way of putting it though is that he is meeting expectations, given the amount of money MU is spending on the program and the amount of money Buzz is being paid. Based on his new contract I would disagree with the notion that he is exceding expectations.

We were fortunate to get seeded with Xavier last year.  

[cheebs09]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only two JUCO's to not graduate so far are Buycks and Fulce. I know both are still on campus and know Fulce is in class and saw Buycks walking with a backpack (I assume he is still in class, just know someone who has a class with Fulce). If we are recruiting JUCO's, fine by me. So far there hasn't been a reason for me to be ashamed or anything but impressed with how they have performed on the court or off. Yes, we've had some troubles off the court, but that shouldn't mean that recruiting JUCO's is wrong. I can only make guesses at players involved, but it seems it was a mix of backgrounds. Schools have had problems with 4-year players from high schools, transfers, and JUCO's. I see a player and a person when a kid commits, not a JUCO or a high schooler.

Echoing what others have said on Buzz, as long as the off-court stuff is limited (No college is perfect), I think he will do and has done great. I'm very happy with the on-court results, but thinks he needs to work on defensive coaching a little more. I feel that's been a pretty consistent weakness of all his teams.

[avid1010]

I agree with the comment he is getting it done. Anther way of putting it is that he is meeting expectations, given the amount of money he is getting paid and the amount of money Buzz is being paid. Based on his new contract I would disagree with the notion that he is exceding expectations.

We were fortunate to get seeded with Xavier last year.  

The money thing doesn't hold any water for me.  MU had to pay Buzz what they did to keep him...that was his going rate for the production that he had done at MU.  I think MU has to pay a bit more because it isn't the easiest school to recruit players to.  If Roy Williams were to start coaching at UW-Milwaukee, getting paid the same as he currently is at UNC, you'd expect the same results based off of his salary?

[BCHoopster]

BC...my apologies regarding TC.  I mis-read it.  But honestly, your posts are very hard to read because you use carriage returns instead of just letting the text wrap.  I don't know why you do that.

And why are you so against Jucos?  Some, like JFB, were full qualifiers out of high school, but went Juco to improve their basketball prospects.  The non-qualifiers (like DB and Jae) have actually had to earn an associates degree in order to be eligible.  That is at least some sort of accomplishment.

Sorry about the text.  I will let it wrap around on this text, see if it is better.  JC's are kids with questionable grades.  I have no problem with them if they graduate.  Buzz makes them go to
school, but I want a program that graduates kids.  I remember Cinci's graduation rate was pathetic.  I wonder if the administration looked the other way to get these kids even in to MU, I was told they did.  Buzz is moving forward with less JC kids, what is the reason then?  One major reason is that you get those kids for 4 years vs. 2.  Now adays schools lose scholarships ala UConn if they do not graduate, so MU needs kids who want to be student/athletes, not just basketball players.

[Pakuni]

Sorry about the text.  I will let it wrap around on this text, see if it is better.  JC's are kids with questionable grades.  I have no problem with them if they graduate.  Buzz makes them go to
school, but I want a program that graduates kids.  I remember Cinci's graduation rate was pathetic.  I wonder if the administration looked the other way to get these kids even in to MU, I was told they did.  Buzz is moving forward with less JC kids, what is the reason then?  One major reason is that you get those kids for 4 years vs. 2.  Now adays schools lose scholarships ala UConn if they do not graduate, so MU needs kids who want to be student/athletes, not just basketball players.

How many of those UConn kids that didn't graduate were JUCOs?

[GGGG]

BC, JCs are not *necessarily* kids with questionable grades.  As I menioned, some are full-qualifiers and *could* have gone to a four year school but chose JCs for a basketball related reason.  Those who aren't qualifiers, and have earned associates degrees, might actually be further ahead academically than those who have done their first two years at MU.  They essentially completed much of their core curriculum.  I'm not saying you are wrong, just that you have no proof that you are correct.

[avid1010]

Buzz is moving forward with less JC kids, what is the reason then?  

If you know anything about Buzz you know how much he appreciates JC kids.  To stereotype all JC kids as having grade issues is too simple.  

[mr.MUskie]

JCs are just schools.  It's not like we got kids when they got out of prison.  Maybe it wasn't a 4 year school, but the kids who go JC at least are in schools trying to better themselves.  It's not like they dropped out and were gangbanging on the the streets.  Why all the negativity towards JCs?  I don't get it.  Some people act like these guys have a permanent stink on them because they stayed in school at a JC instead of going to some more prestigious place to get an education.

[MUMac]

If you think it is OK to recruit JC kids that will probably never graduate school then great.  Lets see if any of them graduate?  They have questionable grades to begin with.
Look, Buzz had to what he had to do to keep his job.  I have no issue with that.  McGuire recruited JC kids as well.  Walton, Whitehead, Lackey all were JC kids, they turned out pretty
good.  I can not answer the question about who represented MU well or not, bit none will graduate and not sure who the 4 were in the questionable case.  

Really?  Questionable grades to begin with?  Fulce, Butler and Taylor all qualified out of high school.  Two enrolled in college, but left for JC rather than sitting out.  DJO passed through the clearing house during his Frosh season.  The only 2 true JC players were DB and Crowder.  DB's situation had more to do with MPS than anything.

What do you know about any of their grades?  How do you know "none will graduate"?  

[wadesworld]

I wonder if the administration looked the other way to get these kids even in to MU, I was told they did.

First of all I think painting all Juco kids with a broad picture is complete BS.  Maybe that's just me.

Anyway, define "looked the other way to get these kids into MU."  Like, if they were not basketball players and applied for admission to Marquette, they would not be admitted and instead another kid would have been accepted over them?  No kidding!  EVERY school in the NCAA does that with ALL sports, with very few exceptions (Stanford, Ivy League schools - which I believe do not give out athletic scholarships, but I could be wrong on that).  Even schools like Duke do that.  If it was anything beyond that, the NCAA Clearinghouse would not have ruled them eligible, and they would have never set foot on Marquette's campus.  Sorry, but your claims are ridiculous on Juco kids.

[Dr. Blackheart]

• Buzz has recruited the AAU scene much better than Crean did at MU.  With that comes the sense of entitlement and posses.  With talent comes problems until he is proven, experienced and seasoned. He has shown well in this regard through rough patches.
• Buzz never stops recruiting (cold called Anderson's  coach last summer). TC never really enjoyed that aspect, and when he did, tried to sell with flash, relied on the high school coach connection. CTC has wisely adapted at I4 now that that failed him early on there.  Buzz has balanced his classes and depth very, very well.
• In game coaching for Buzz is a development area but unlike his predecessor, he is willing to admit and learn from his mistakes.  Made great strides, adjustments at the end of last season.
• Both are good at game prep, but Buzz has proven to be an upgrade.  TC was too tied to his system and pre-set plays, Buzz rolls with his match-up strengths within his concepts.  This was a major surprise to me as he may be one of the top in the nation at this right now.
• Defense: Buzz looks at D as vehicle to propel the offense. I would like to see more of a stop mentality.
• Buzz is more sincere publically but naive. Crean had many major pr fiascoes (Gold, Brute Force), but he could sweep the black eyes under the table better. Buzz is far more open and giving, sincerely supports the history and the area.  Buzz is a much better fit for MU.
• Wardrobe:  Buzz in a heart beat, baby blue or gold blazers over Johnson length ties. Same with the hair do. Curly over Tom Arnold
• Entertainment: Buzz...just much more fun to watch him and his players.  I would much rather have a dancing coach on the sidelines than an ADD pacer.

[BCHoopster]

If you know anything about Buzz you know how much he appreciates JC kids.  To stereotype all JC kids as having grade issues is too simple.  

There are other reasons besides grades why kids go to JC. Jimmy to improve his game and Fulce to find a school where Buzz ended up.  I am more concerned with Dwight.  He had a big
family at senior night, hope he gets his degree.  Buzz has JC roots, so I see no reason not to use them.  Al usually recruited one kid every few years to fill in a spot.  The problem now
is that kids go to prep school much like Mayo to get a fifth year, like St. Johns Military.  That way, Mayo can mature in prep school, probably was not ready for college after 4, so it is
like a JC but gets 4 years instead of 2 or 3.  MU can not be that picky, it is an urban school in a cold climate.  Buzz can sell going to Hawaii every 4 years, the Virgin Islands once in awhile
and South Florida twice in 4 years.  The big selling point is playing in the Garden every year.

[pbiflyer]

• Buzz is more sincere publicly but naive.

No, no he's not. While he may appear that way, he is far smarter and aware than he lets on.

[muwarrior69]

I don't get all the JC bashing either. My daughter did not have a clue as to what she wanted to do with her life. So she went to the local community college for 3 years until she figured it out. Then she went to a 4 year school to complete her junior and senior year. Saved me a bundle of money.

As for Buzz....truly a diamond in the rough.

[Dr. Blackheart]

No, no he's not. While he may appear that way, he is far smarter and aware than he lets on.

Didn't say he was not sly as a fox, but that botched interview this summer is one instance where he and his handlers messed up. The Jimmy Mac radio interview was another or comments like Hazel plays like a "retard". Naive to the public stage at times, but real and sincere and learning the pr side.