Cottingham out as AD?

[Hoopaloop]

Good analysis - pretty sad that a guy who had done a good job, can be toppled from his position due to a he said/she said case, a negative article in the Chicago Tribune, and some overly self-righteous alums/possible donors who were ashamed by MU following the same policy its followed while under Bill Cords watch/Wild's watch and even DiUlio's watch - with regard to Public Safety/MPD protocols.

And I actually agree with Avalanche's statement (though I think forever indebted is a little over the top)

Exactly what would it take for you to take a step back one day and acknowledge that not only were mistakes made but MU looked pretty poor on this whole thing?

Let's recap.  In March, the school is on the front pages of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and all four evening newscasts for sexual assault allegations by 4 student athletes which pretty much most scuttlebutt indicates at least 3 were basketball players. 

About 6 weeks later MU is reprimanded publicly by the District Attorney and the Milwaukee Police department for acting inappropriately, not following proper procedures which could have either proven the players innocence or proven her story.  Instead we are left in limbo and no one knows.

Then a mere few weeks later we're on the front page, top story in the largest newspaper in the Midwest (3rd largest city in the USA) and a fertile recruiting ground for MU's general student population.  Another sexual assault allegation and again Marquette's policies make the school look foolish.  The woman left the school.  MU is forced to publicly apologize again, the third time now, and is staring down some cash payments to this young woman (potentially women).

Fast forward a mere two weeks later and our Athletic Director resigns without many details.

A logical person would chalk up all these items and would say this hasn't exactly been a wonderful last three months.  That fails to even mention Vander's court proceedings and high profile attorney Gerald Boyle's involvement.

You may choose to ignore these things.  Others are playing the game as well here in this thread and others.  I'm sorry, but when you add up 1 + another + another + another + another all in that short time space, MU has some issues.  They're working to correct them, but a black eye was delivered and well deserved.  Sometimes the institutions we love have to get their clock cleaned a little bit to reform and take out the trash. 

[Pakuni]

Pakuni. He was reprimanded for something it seems. Nothing illegal but likely against MU policy.

Which would eliminate interfering with a criminal, or potential criminal, investigation, as you've repeatedly suggested was possible.

[NersEllenson]

Exactly what would it take for you to take a step back one day and acknowledge that not only were mistakes made but MU looked pretty poor on this whole thing?

Let's recap.  In March, the school is on the front pages of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and all four evening newscasts for sexual assault allegations by 4 student athletes which pretty much most scuttlebutt indicates at least 3 were basketball players. 

About 6 weeks later MU is reprimanded publicly by the District Attorney and the Milwaukee Police department for acting inappropriately, not following proper procedures which could have either proven the players innocence or proven her story.  Instead we are left in limbo and no one knows.

Then a mere few weeks later we're on the front page, top story in the largest newspaper in the Midwest (3rd largest city in the USA) and a fertile recruiting ground for MU's general student population.  Another sexual assault allegation and again Marquette's policies make the school look foolish.  The woman left the school.  MU is forced to publicly apologize again, the third time now, and is staring down some cash payments to this young woman (potentially women).

Fast forward a mere two weeks later and our Athletic Director resigns without many details.

A logical person would chalk up all these items and would say this hasn't exactly been a wonderful last three months.  That fails to even mention Vander's court proceedings and high profile attorney Gerald Boyle's involvement.

You may choose to ignore these things.  Others are playing the game as well here in this thread and others.  I'm sorry, but when you add up 1 + another + another + another + another all in that short time space, MU has some issues.  They're working to correct them, but a black eye was delivered and well deserved.  Sometimes the institutions we love have to get their clock cleaned a little bit to reform and take out the trash. 

And what would it take for you to not exaggerate the negativity pertaining to the basketball team?  So Vander Blue punched another student who challenged him - wow - amazing something like 18 year olds getting into a fight.  Huge problem at MU.  Next the Chicago Tribune/MKE Police reprimand pertained to the same story - you know - the one where the "victim" was given the choice to go to police and chose not to.  The same victim that began the evening in question, consensually, but apparently somewhere mid-thrust changed her mind?  Stable.

MU has taking a beating far worse than it deserves in this case, due to the fact it didn't adamently defend its action/handling of the case.  As for the October case - I don't know much about it - but again, the girl chose not to go to police, and I highly doubt DPS is going to ignore a girl who got raped, with clear evidence to illustrate as much - just to protect a few basketball players.

[texaswarrior74]

The same victim that began the evening in question, consensually, but apparently somewhere mid-thrust changed her mind?  Stable.

In a court of law this is still considered rape. No really does mean no...even among spouses and even "mid-thrust" btw.

To deride the person involved is reckless on your part and highly insensitive. Sorry but you crossed the line there pal.

I somehow feel that if this was being said about a player from ND, Louisville, etc you'd be screaming about the school/player getting away with it.

This whole thing has a lot of stink on it and I for one am embarrassed that it happened at my Jesuit school....we're supposed to be better than that.

Somehow not surprised given Wild's complicity and history of cover up of sexual scandals among priests in the past.

Open your eyes and take off the blue and gold sunglasses.....this is not what I would have expected of my Alma Mater.

[NersEllenson]

In a court of law this is still considered rape. No really does mean no...even among spouses and even "mid-thrust" btw.

To deride the person involved is reckless on your part and highly insensitive. Sorry but you crossed the line there pal.

I somehow feel that if this was being said about a player from ND, Louisville, etc you'd be screaming about the school/player getting away with it.

This whole thing has a lot of stink on it and I for one am embarrassed that it happened at my Jesuit school....we're supposed to be better than that.

Somehow not surprised given Wild's complicity and history of cover up of sexual scandals among priests in the past.

Open your eyes and take off the blue and gold sunglasses.....this is not what I would have expected of my Alma Mater.

Sorry pal, but unless you were in that room that night, you don't know any more about what actually transpired than do I.  Nor do you know if the athlete in question did actually stop, but perhaps 3 thrusts too late.  The girl had the choice to go to the police - if she wasn't satisfied with the answer DPS gave her, there was nothing standing in her way of going to the police.  DPS offered her that course of action - why didn't she take it?

And unlike you, I do not believe Jesuit schools are better than being above a he said/she said situation - this type of thing can happen anywhere, anytime.  Perhaps you need to put on your blue and gold colored glasses, and stop convicting the athlete of something they weren't convicted for.

And no - I could care less what happens at Notre Dame, Lville, West Virginia or wherever - because 1) I'm not a Marquette elitist, but realist, and I realize to be immune from any form of athlete scandal in this day and age is just flat out ignorant, and 2) Am far from being self righteous unlike some, perhaps you.

[MUfan12]

You guys owe me a beer - I said in 1999 that in the next 15 years, we will lose 2 ADs. BAM.

Post of the year. Outstanding!

[texaswarrior74]

My questions to you are: were you there?  Have you ever seen a sexual assault trial first hand...not on TV?

The real facts are that most victims of sexual assault do not go to the police. In the case of female college students the percentage is much higher than the norm. Many college age women in said circumstances do not want to face public humiliation and all too often are portrayed as "wanting it" rather than being the victims that they are. The Marquette community is small and it's not hard to understand why a female student would not want to face the scrutiny/embarrassment that would surely follow, especially when a BB player(s) is involved.

Spend a little time in a family violence court room and you might soften your stance. It's not a pretty place and will alter your perception of what the real world is truly all about and I'm not talking about the underbelly.....it happens in even the most affluent neighborhoods.

And no, I am not self righteous in any way, in fact just the opposite.

[MUMac]

My questions to you are: were you there?  Have you ever seen a sexual assault trial first hand...not on TV?

The real facts are that most victims of sexual assault do not go to the police. In the case of female college students the percentage is much higher than the norm. Many college age women in said circumstances do not want to face public humiliation and all too often are portrayed as "wanting it" rather than being the victims that they are. The Marquette community is small and it's not hard to understand why a female student would not want to face the scrutiny/embarrassment that would surely follow, especially when a BB player(s) is involved.

Spend a little time in a family violence court room and you might soften your stance. It's not a pretty place and will alter your perception of what the real world is truly all about and I'm not talking about the underbelly.....it happens in even the most affluent neighborhoods.

And no, I am not self righteous in any way, in fact just the opposite.

Yet she went to DPS?  That is where I do not follow your argument.  She went to DPS and pursued it.  Eventually went to the police, but many months later.  I don't see where the argument about "public humiliation" concern sticks here.

[mu_hilltopper]

I'm with Ners on this.  Shaky cases, Public Safety acted accordingly.  Had the incidents gone to MPD immediately, there's a decent chance, perhaps probability, that no charges would be filed.

The grade MU gets for PR in the last 30 days was probably a C+ .. Cotty leaving the way he did lowers that to a D.  

[Marquette84]

Sorry pal, but unless you were in that room that night, you don't know any more about what actually transpired than do I. 

And yet you continually make statements as if you were in the room and know exactly what transpired.

or do you know if the athlete in question did actually stop, but perhaps 3 thrusts too late.

First, I'm not aware of any "3 free thrusts" exception to any rape or sexual assault law.

Nonetheless, even if there were such an exception--YOU WEREN'T IN THE ROOM!! 

Your suggestion that it was only "perhaps 3 thrusts too late" is a complete and utter fabrication. For all you know, the athlete may have kept the girl pinned on the bed for another 20 minutes after she wanted out.

The girl had the choice to go to the police - if she wasn't satisfied with the answer DPS gave her, there was nothing standing in her way of going to the police.  DPS offered her that course of action - why didn't she take it?

Nothing except maybe the fear of an athlete (or his friends, or merely some drunk basketball fan) beating the crap out of her in retaliation for going to the police.

You simply don't know why the girl didn't go to the police--because YOU WEREN"T IN THE ROOM!.  So please stop fabricating the conclusion that the only reason she didn't go to the MPD is that she thought there was no crime.
 

And unlike you, I do not believe Jesuit schools are better than being above a he said/she said situation - this type of thing can happen anywhere, anytime.  Perhaps you need to put on your blue and gold colored glasses, and stop convicting the athlete of something they weren't convicted for.

You don't know if it was a he said/she said situation--because once again, YOU WEREN'T IN THE ROOM!!!   You fabricated the entire "he said/she said" story (just like you fabricated the "only 3 thrusts too late" and the "she had the chance to go to the police" stories)  because they all fit what you WANT the story to be.

Finally, you also fabricate the counter argument that someone is "convicting" the athlete.  Nobody here has "convicted" the athlete.  What people are upset about is that Marquette's actions--whether intentional or merely inept-- have forever PREVENTED the truth from becoming known.

I said in my first post on the subject, a proper investigation may well have exonerated the athlete if he truly was innocent and being falsely accused. I find it funny that you can't even bring yourself to agree with that simple and seemingly non-controversial statement.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm with Ners on this.  Shaky cases, Public Safety acted accordingly.  Had the incidents gone to MPD immediately, there's a decent chance, perhaps probability, that no charges would be filed.

The grade MU gets for PR in the last 30 days was probably a C+ .. Cotty leaving the way he did lowers that to a D.  

Having Buzz and Broeker up there at a press conference to be the "face" of the university and then not being able to answer questions due to privacy issues....brings it down to a F.  What was the point of having this presser if all they are doing is adding gas to the fire?   "Hi, we're here to answer questions, tell you all how much we think Sexual Assault is really icky and be the face of the university but any question you ask we won't answer and will only add to the speculation of who was involved".  WTF.  Why even have that exchange with the press. 

We're starting to look worse than UW-Madison's corrupt football and hockey programs over the years.  I'm surprised we didn't come flat out and do the Badger thing and simply suspend the coaches and players for a practice..they typical Barry Alvarez czar of punishment routine.  Beat up another student...suspended for a practice but don't worry, you can lace them up for the game against Purdue at Camp Randall.  DUI, no problem..that's two practices that you are suspended for.


Anyone find it ironic that the coaches and players were reprimanded\disciplined when they didn't "do anything wrong" according to some here.  What were they reprimanded for exactly if nothing happened as some imply?      Aren't you disciplined and reprimanded as a RESULT of doing something wrong?  Of course, but that little nuance is lost so often here.

[MUMac]

Anyone find it ironic that the coaches and players were reprimanded\disciplined when they didn't "do anything wrong" according to some here.  What were they reprimanded for exactly if nothing happened as some imply?      Aren't you disciplined and reprimanded as a RESULT of doing something wrong?  Of course, but that little nuance is lost so often here.

No an accurate statement.  Most people here have said we do not know what or why the "discipline" was for.  We have seen more like you that have convicted without complete facts. That is ironic, isn't?

[Marquette84]

No an accurate statement.  Most people here have said we do not know what or why the "discipline" was for.  We have seen more like you that have convicted without complete facts. That is ironic, isn't?

Just because the details weren't spelled out, the mere fact that there was a publicly stated need for discipline, reprimands or even just "blunt conversations"--that's enough to refute the belief by some here that nobody did anything wrong.

You don't hold a "blunt conversation" with someone to communicate that you are pleased to tell them that they did nothing wrong. 

And you don't tell the world you held a "blunt conversation" unless you were trying to tell the world "Yes, this person did something wrong, but I took action with them about it."

Fr. Wild and Stephanie Quade both made it abundantly clear that such blunt conversations where held.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

No an accurate statement.  Most people here have said we do not know what or why the "discipline" was for.  We have seen more like you that have convicted without complete facts. That is ironic, isn't?

1 + 1 = 2


This isn't hard and plenty of back sources have confirmed.   If nothing was done wrong as so many here have said is the case, why were their reprimands?  For missing a team meal?  Come on.   There is a very respected poster on this board that knows who was reprimanded and could put this all to rest today if he wishes to state it publicly.  I'll let him decide.

[NersEllenson]

My questions to you are: were you there?  Have you ever seen a sexual assault trial first hand...not on TV?

The real facts are that most victims of sexual assault do not go to the police. In the case of female college students the percentage is much higher than the norm. Many college age women in said circumstances do not want to face public humiliation and all too often are portrayed as "wanting it" rather than being the victims that they are. The Marquette community is small and it's not hard to understand why a female student would not want to face the scrutiny/embarrassment that would surely follow, especially when a BB player(s) is involved.

Spend a little time in a family violence court room and you might soften your stance. It's not a pretty place and will alter your perception of what the real world is truly all about and I'm not talking about the underbelly.....it happens in even the most affluent neighborhoods.

And no, I am not self righteous in any way, in fact just the opposite.

Fair enough Warrior - But we all know that the statement "Hell hath no fury, like a woman scorned," exists for a reason.  We also know the 2 parties in this case had a consensual sexual relationship for some time - that eventually ended - that the girl decided to resume on the evening in question, only to begin questioning the athlete as to "why didn't you call me?"  Apparently she didn't like his answer, and then boom..all of a sudden a sexual assault occurred.  If I were to just take a wild guess as the the percentage of sexual assault cases that make their way to court that involve 2 people have had a historical sexual relationship, whereby they resume said sexual relationship, whereby the eventual victims acknowledges and states that she began the act consensually, but then changed her mind mid-way through - I can't imagine 1% of all sex assault cases that get tried are of this variety??

[NersEllenson]

And yet you continually make statements as if you were in the room and know exactly what transpired.

First, I'm not aware of any "3 free thrusts" exception to any rape or sexual assault law.

Nonetheless, even if there were such an exception--YOU WEREN'T IN THE ROOM!! 

Your suggestion that it was only "perhaps 3 thrusts too late" is a complete and utter fabrication. For all you know, the athlete may have kept the girl pinned on the bed for another 20 minutes after she wanted out.

Nothing except maybe the fear of an athlete (or his friends, or merely some drunk basketball fan) beating the crap out of her in retaliation for going to the police.

You simply don't know why the girl didn't go to the police--because YOU WEREN"T IN THE ROOM!.  So please stop fabricating the conclusion that the only reason she didn't go to the MPD is that she thought there was no crime.
 
You don't know if it was a he said/she said situation--because once again, YOU WEREN'T IN THE ROOM!!!   You fabricated the entire "he said/she said" story (just like you fabricated the "only 3 thrusts too late" and the "she had the chance to go to the police" stories)  because they all fit what you WANT the story to be.

Finally, you also fabricate the counter argument that someone is "convicting" the athlete.  Nobody here has "convicted" the athlete.  What people are upset about is that Marquette's actions--whether intentional or merely inept-- have forever PREVENTED the truth from becoming known.

I said in my first post on the subject, a proper investigation may well have exonerated the athlete if he truly was innocent and being falsely accused. I find it funny that you can't even bring yourself to agree with that simple and seemingly non-controversial statement.

  Comedy, and not going to engage with you today 84.  Happy 4th of July - it is quite liberating to come to the conclusion that debating with you is a waste of time.

[mu_hilltopper]

YOU WEREN'T IN THE ROOM!!  

I've heard this over and over.  There were only two people in the room.  This means, the story needs to be interpreted from those two parties, as each will have a perspective on what occurred.

The story goes through many versions and is told to many parties.

As close as we have to the first version, told to the first party is .. the one told to Public Safety.  We also know what Public Safety's reaction to that first version was.

Perhaps the next iteration of the story was given to MU's OSA for their investigation.  We know what they did, too.

Discussing it here .. since we have zero source documentation or interviews, we can only debate what's been presented by those parties, plus the Milwaukee DA, who didn't press charges.

Horse, meet water.  Drink or not, that's up to you.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Cool, posts are disappearing again...ghosts in the machine.

[Pakuni]

My questions to you are: were you there?  Have you ever seen a sexual assault trial first hand...not on TV?

The real facts are that most victims of sexual assault do not go to the police. In the case of female college students the percentage is much higher than the norm. Many college age women in said circumstances do not want to face public humiliation and all too often are portrayed as "wanting it" rather than being the victims that they are. The Marquette community is small and it's not hard to understand why a female student would not want to face the scrutiny/embarrassment that would surely follow, especially when a BB player(s) is involved.

Spend a little time in a family violence court room and you might soften your stance. It's not a pretty place and will alter your perception of what the real world is truly all about and I'm not talking about the underbelly.....it happens in even the most affluent neighborhoods.

And no, I am not self righteous in any way, in fact just the opposite.

No, this post doesn't seem self-righteous in the least.

But since you're dispensing real facts, could you please inform us of your credentials when it comes to time spent in courtrooms during sexual assault cases? And first-hand knowledge of what many college-age women are thinking?

The funny thing is, no one - not even Ners - has defended MU's handling of this. And yet some feel the need to try to out-do one another when it comes to expressing one's righteous indignation. It's not a contest.

[bilsu]

No an accurate statement.  Most people here have said we do not know what or why the "discipline" was for.  We have seen more like you that have convicted without complete facts. That is ironic, isn't?

I would be very surprised if having premartial sex is not against the MU student code of ethics. It is one of those don't ask and don't tell things. MU is not going to look under rocks to find out what any student is doing. However, if caught you are in violation of the code. That being the case (and I am just assuming it is) the players would need to be disciplined for breaking a rule, because they got caught. So saying the players were disciplined does not mean they did anything legally wrong. Just morally, which is what pre-marital sex under is in Christian doctrine and MU is a Christain school. Besides that, there is still the issue of what discipline actually was. It could just been the players being sternly told not to do it again.

[Marquette84]

  Comedy, and not going to engage with you today 84.  Happy 4th of July - it is quite liberating to come to the conclusion that debating with you is a waste of time.

Of course you don't want to discuss it further. 

You completely fabricated a storyline to fit your preferred narrative. And anytime you're questioned on it, you claim you are unimpeachable because nobody was in the room to know enough to prove you wrong.

I'm just using your own argument back on you. And not surprisingly, you don't like it.
 

[NersEllenson]

Of course you don't want to discuss it further. 

You completely fabricated a storyline to fit your preferred narrative. And anytime you're questioned on it, you claim you are unimpeachable because nobody was in the room to know enough to prove you wrong.

I'm just using your own argument back on you. And not surprisingly, you don't like it.
 

Bingo. 100% Correct 84.  You are right.  Happy 4th.  Actually, as I wrote earlier, I don't want to waste my time debating with someone as pot/kettle/black as you.

[Marquette84]

Bingo. 100% Correct 84.  You are right.  Happy 4th.  Actually, as I wrote earlier, I don't want to waste my time debating with someone as pot/kettle/black as you.

Well I'm glad you realize that a debate clearly WOULD be a waste of your time, because you DID fabricate the story to fit your outcome, and you HAVE used the "you weren't there" card on anyone who questioned you.

As I said, you don't seem to like your own argument when its turned on you.

Happy 4th to you as well.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Hey Ners & 84, just wanted to say happy 4th to you guys too!!!!!!!!!!!

[Knight Commission]

I would be very surprised if having premartial sex is not against the MU student code of ethics. It is one of those don't ask and don't tell things. MU is not going to look under rocks to find out what any student is doing. However, if caught you are in violation of the code. That being the case (and I am just assuming it is) the players would need to be disciplined for breaking a rule, because they got caught. So saying the players were disciplined does not mean they did anything legally wrong. Just morally, which is what pre-marital sex under is in Christian doctrine and MU is a Christain school. Besides that, there is still the issue of what discipline actually was. It could just been the players being sternly told not to do it again.

Makes sense to me but that means Dwyane Wade and Siovaughan were probably hammered by the Crean and the J Board when they had Zaire in 2002 before they got married.