collapse

* Stud of Colorado Game

Tyler Kolek

21 points, 5 rebounds,
11 assists, 1 steal,
40 minutes

2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Kam Jones 1st Round Mock - The Ringer by The Lens
[Today at 07:48:49 AM]


10 years after “Done Deal” … It’s Happening! by Goose
[Today at 07:14:37 AM]


Big East 23-24 NCAA and NIT Results by 1SE
[Today at 06:38:02 AM]


NCstate fan scouts Marquette by brewcity77
[Today at 06:05:33 AM]


Katz has MU in Final Four by Uncle Rico
[Today at 05:59:46 AM]


UNLEASH THE POWER OF SCOOP!!! by Jay Bee
[Today at 05:13:02 AM]


Three Years Ago Today... by Newsdreams
[March 27, 2024, 11:34:10 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: NC State

Marquette
81
Marquette vs

NC State

Date/Time: Mar 29, 2024, 6:09 pm
TV: CBS
Schedule for 2023-24
Colorado
77

Author Topic: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year  (Read 85555 times)

ChicosBailBonds

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22695
  • #AllInnocentLivesMatter
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2011, 11:01:44 PM »
Well its good we aren't setting expectations too high!

Well stated, but doesn't even have to be in teal because you are right....I thought we would have all learned from the crazy expectations of Vander last year by some.  Let the kids develop, they will hit their strides soon enough but it takes time and different intervals for different kids. 

mviale

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2321
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2011, 11:23:16 PM »
Chicos - I would like you to call Davante a kid at 6'9" 280

You heard it here first. Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259

seakm4

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2011, 11:46:50 PM »
Part of defense is getting rebounds. Gardner is far superior to Otule in the catagory.

One thing i see with Otule is that he doesn't grab the rebounds, but he does a great job of boxing out.  he clears 5 ft in front of him and somebody will swoop in and snag the board for the stat book.  If he did grab all the rebounds that land in his area I'd put him around 6-7 a game.  It's not spectacular but i would classify him as a good rebounder.   And remember how we all thought Otule would be a 10 and 10 guy this year? I think Devonte will play well but I'm going to keep my expectations lower than 16 and potential draft pick in a few years.

patso

  • Registered User
  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 402
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2011, 02:00:23 AM »
I think by senior year he could be Damon Key #2. Next year he ill not get 16 a game but he will score 16 in about 10 games which will be fun to watch.

MUMac

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2496
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2011, 07:53:23 AM »
Well stated, but doesn't even have to be in teal because you are right....I thought we would have all learned from the crazy expectations of Vander last year by some.  Let the kids develop, they will hit their strides soon enough but it takes time and different intervals for different kids. 

Agreed.  We tend to put unusually high expectations on our players.  When they don't live up to them (which few could), some say they failed.

I don't think out board is any different than any fan base, though.  It's all part of being a fanatic.

bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2011, 08:50:37 AM »
From the MU Record book, only 8 sophomores in MU history have averaged 16+ ppg:

1. Mike Moran 20.4 ppg
2. Russ Wittberger 19.4 ppg
3. George Thompson 18.0 ppg
4. Jim Chones 17.9 ppg
5. Dwyane Wade 17.8
6. Tom Flynn 17.3
7. Dean Meminger 16.4
8. Bo Ellis 16.3

16 points/game would put Gardner ahead of Maurice Lucas (15.4 as a soph.).


Lucas played for a different coach, whose offensive style was more conservative. There also was no shot clock and no three point shot to stretch defenses. Even if Gardner averaged 16 points a game that would not make him better than Lucas. Most sophomores do not score a lot, because seniors usually are the focal point of the offense. When Gardner's in the game, getting the ball into him is often the focal point of the offense.

dgies9156

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4022
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2011, 08:54:13 AM »
Al hasn't already been canonized?

Nope. The Roman Catholic Church requires TWO verified miracles to be canonized. As best I can tell, Al has only one attributable miracle. It's the 2003 Regional Final game against Kentucky. DWade was on fire that day and I doubt he's played a game as good since. I saw Al's hand in that game -- especially given how Al had such a "warm" relationship with former UK Head Coach Adolph Rupp.

So it's the Blessed Al for now!

AZWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1702
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2011, 10:57:28 AM »
Nope. The Roman Catholic Church requires TWO verified miracles to be canonized. As best I can tell, Al has only one attributable miracle. It's the 2003 Regional Final game against Kentucky. DWade was on fire that day and I doubt he's played a game as good since. I saw Al's hand in that game -- especially given how Al had such a "warm" relationship with former UK Head Coach Adolph Rupp.

So it's the Blessed Al for now!

Got it.  And as I recall, one of Al's miracles turned out to be a card trick, so that's an obstacle, too.   ;)
All this talk of rights.  So little talk of responsibilities.

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2011, 11:13:44 AM »
While we are going out on a limb, my prediction is Devante gets drafted in the second round of the 2014 NBA draft.

The problem I see is that he is basically a back to the basket scorer, with little "explosion" to his game.  He is way too short at 6'9" to play that way in the NBA.  Plus he has to seriously improve his defense from last year.

Damon Key is a great analogy.  Had a knack to score, but simply too limited by his body to be successful at the next level.

NersEllenson

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6735
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2011, 11:46:31 AM »
The problem I see is that he is basically a back to the basket scorer, with little "explosion" to his game.  He is way too short at 6'9" to play that way in the NBA.  Plus he has to seriously improve his defense from last year.

Damon Key is a great analogy.  Had a knack to score, but simply too limited by his body to be successful at the next level.

Agree 100%.  Damon Key is a great analogy.  Perhaps if Devante works super hard, he could change his body to where he could compete in a Glen Davis kind of way.  DeJuan Blair transformed his body fairly well during his time at Pitt - but as I recall Blair started with a bit more explosion than we've seen from DG..
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2011, 12:06:51 PM »
The problem I see is that he is basically a back to the basket scorer, with little "explosion" to his game.  He is way too short at 6'9" to play that way in the NBA.  Plus he has to seriously improve his defense from last year.

Damon Key is a great analogy.  Had a knack to score, but simply too limited by his body to be successful at the next level.

Davante's lack of explosion may (or may not) be attributable to his lack of conditioning. Give him a couple more years of professional training and nutrition, and let's see where he is.
Also, while Damon Key makes for a good comparison, there certainly have been several players of Gardner's body type to make it in the NBA. The aforementioned Glen Davis comes to mind, as do guys like Oliver Miller, Popeye Jones and Zach Randolph. I'm not suggesting Davante will be as good as any f the above, but it's hardly unheard of for a 6'8"+, 270+ pound guy without mad hops to succeed in the NBA.

mu03eng

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5049
    • Scrambled Eggs Podcast
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2011, 12:10:45 PM »
Davante's lack of explosion may (or may not) be attributable to his lack of conditioning. Give him a couple more years of professional training and nutrition, and let's see where he is.
Also, while Damon Key makes for a good comparison, there certainly have been several players of Gardner's body type to make it in the NBA. The aforementioned Glen Davis comes to mind, as do guys like Oliver Miller, Popeye Jones and Zach Randolph. I'm not suggesting Davante will be as good as any f the above, but it's hardly unheard of for a 6'8"+, 270+ pound guy without mad hops to succeed in the NBA.

I think the Zach Randolph comparison is apt(physical game, not mental hopefully).  Randolph plays below the rim and has a jump shot and a handle.  Davante at last years Pro-Am showed he has some handle and if he develops a jumper he becomes very tough to handle.  I expect tremendous things out of him his senior year.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

mr.MUskie

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1766
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2011, 05:20:09 PM »
My fear with DG losing weight is that without his current bulk, he'll just be another 6'8-6'9 player.  Right now he takes up a lot of space down low, and is strong as... well, as an ox.  If he loses 25 or more pounds, does he lose his advantage?  Granted, he does need to get in better shape in order to have the stamina to go more minutes.  But when it comes to losing weight, is there too much of a good thing?

bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2011, 05:51:41 PM »
My fear with DG losing weight is that without his current bulk, he'll just be another 6'8-6'9 player.  Right now he takes up a lot of space down low, and is strong as... well, as an ox.  If he loses 25 or more pounds, does he lose his advantage?  Granted, he does need to get in better shape in order to have the stamina to go more minutes.  But when it comes to losing weight, is there too much of a good thing?
I do think that is a valid concern. He has learned to play with his size and uses it to his advantage. I do not think getting down to 275 will hurt him, but if he got significantly below that and his athleticism did not improve it could hurt him. I hope I am wrong,but I really do not see his jumping ability improving much if he lost weight. Are there any statistics on MU players standing still jumps as seniors vs what there were as freshmen? I could see them possibly increasing an inch or two, but basically you can either jump or not jump. Even if Gardner increased his jumping ability 3" he still will not be a leaper. He needs his size to take up space.

NersEllenson

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6735
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2011, 06:44:10 PM »
I do think that is a valid concern. He has learned to play with his size and uses it to his advantage. I do not think getting down to 275 will hurt him, but if he got significantly below that and his athleticism did not improve it could hurt him. I hope I am wrong,but I really do not see his jumping ability improving much if he lost weight. Are there any statistics on MU players standing still jumps as seniors vs what there were as freshmen? I could see them possibly increasing an inch or two, but basically you can either jump or not jump. Even if Gardner increased his jumping ability 3" he still will not be a leaper. He needs his size to take up space.

I believe Lazar improved his vertical about 6 inches while at MU.  Could be wrong about that - but the training staff measures everything, and I'd have to think they take benchmark tests of vertical leap and see how players progress over time.  I do agree with you, in that generally - you can either jump well, or not so much regardless of how hard you train.  A body like DG's and with his girthy ankles/legs is a very difficult body type to ever get vertical leap gains...much easier on a guy like Lazar..
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

ChicosBailBonds

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22695
  • #AllInnocentLivesMatter
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2011, 07:27:43 PM »
Chicos - I would like you to call Davante a kid at 6'9" 280



We have a 6'3" kid who is 12 years old on my son's Little League Majors All-Star team (Williamsport division)...that's a big big boy.  We have another one, the son of Derrick Deese (played Offensive Guard on the 49ers for 10 years) who is also on the team...he's about 6'1" and 12 years old.   They're both kids.  I'm not sure what size has to do with it.

If you're under 21, I still call you a kid, I don't care how big they are.  Legally, 18 is an adult but I've seen so many 18, 19, 20 year olds act like 15 year olds at times, I still call them a kid. 

So Davante...you're a kid!  Enjoy it.  Being a kid is great.

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 26360
  • Warning-This poster may trigger thin skinned users
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2011, 09:17:51 PM »
My fear with DG losing weight is that without his current bulk, he'll just be another 6'8-6'9 player.  Right now he takes up a lot of space down low, and is strong as... well, as an ox.  If he loses 25 or more pounds, does he lose his advantage?  Granted, he does need to get in better shape in order to have the stamina to go more minutes.  But when it comes to losing weight, is there too much of a good thing?

I wouldn't worry about that. I just think about going through the Milwaukee Fire Academy. We had one guy that came in at 255 lbs. After 14 weeks, he was down to 240, but had increased his bench press by about 50 pounds and was all-around much stronger than he was when he came in, despite the loss of some bulk. I ended up gaining 2 pounds but added 40 pounds to my bench and was stronger than I've ever been.

The key for Gardner is that he needs to lose fat and gain muscle. If he can drop 25 pounds of fat and gain 10 pounds of muscle he'll be more physically intimidating than he is now, and while he won't have the sheer bulk, he'll be able to be more forceful on both ends of the court. Losing weight won't hurt him as long as he offsets that loss with a comparable muscle gain. I wouldn't be too worried if he loses 10-20 pounds because his strength gain will probably more than offset the weight loss. If he loses 40-50 pounds, I'd be worried. Muscle weighs more than fat, so a loss that big would probably indicate he didn't have a comparable gain in strength.
This space reserved for a 2024 National Championship celebration banner.

BCHoopster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2011, 09:25:43 PM »
Everybody is worried about DG's weight, his body will mature good or bad, up to him.  But one of favorite bigs was
Wes Unseld, huge man like DG.  I think DG has learned how to use his body down low, great hands.  My question is,
does Buzz know to utilize what he might have.  Wes Unseld had a great J from the free throw line and extended.  Does
Buzz run an offense to get him in different positions to score.  All Buzz has done with both bigs is set them down low,
not hard to figure out MU's O.  Can Buzz play an high low game or pick and pop, with DG getting the shot.  Options are
there, lets see how Buzz coaches him.

NersEllenson

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6735
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2011, 10:50:30 AM »
Everybody is worried about DG's weight, his body will mature good or bad, up to him.  But one of favorite bigs was
Wes Unseld, huge man like DG.  I think DG has learned how to use his body down low, great hands.  My question is,
does Buzz know to utilize what he might have.  Wes Unseld had a great J from the free throw line and extended.  Does
Buzz run an offense to get him in different positions to score.  All Buzz has done with both bigs is set them down low,
not hard to figure out MU's O.  Can Buzz play an high low game or pick and pop, with DG getting the shot.  Options are
there, lets see how Buzz coaches him.

Well considering Dwight Burke and Otule aren't much of a threat offensively from free throw line extended - not much reason to try do anything with those two other than keep them down low.  Lastly, Buzz's offense is based on paint touches, drive and dish - even though Devante has good shooting touch, doubt you will see much in the way of him being used in pick and pop situations - or running set "plays" to free him for a shot.  Buzz's offense is equal opportunity, and not running a bunch of sets..
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

kmwtrucks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 515
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2011, 11:14:42 AM »
Someone might want to mention this to buzz when running a set play out of time out late in the shot clock or trying to take a last shot at the 1/2 or in late game situation when you are Tied or up and you want to use all the clock.  Running a pick and Pop with DJO and DG would make allot of snese compared to letting DB stand at 28 feet for 15 seconds and then to a few fake hesitations and pull a 26 footer is not giving yourself much of a chance of converting. 

It would get the center out of the middle of the lane and would more then likely also give you a wide open 18-20 footer that DG can hit.  I would take that over a contested 25 footer or a wild drive to the basket everytime.

How many of those late in the shot clock situations did we convert last year 25%?

bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2011, 12:14:34 PM »
Well considering Dwight Burke and Otule aren't much of a threat offensively from free throw line extended - not much reason to try do anything with those two other than keep them down low.  Lastly, Buzz's offense is based on paint touches, drive and dish - even though Devante has good shooting touch, doubt you will see much in the way of him being used in pick and pop situations - or running set "plays" to free him for a shot.  Buzz's offense is equal opportunity, and not running a bunch of sets..
I think Buzz will pull Gardner away from the basket at times. First of all Gardner can shoot from the outside. However, the biggest reason is when he posts down low he is clogging up the middle on offense, which takes away the room for the switchables to operate. MU does not want the defense to completely collapse around the center, unless our 3 point shots are falling.

BCHoopster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2011, 12:32:04 PM »
I think Buzz will pull Gardner away from the basket at times. First of all Gardner can shoot from the outside. However, the biggest reason is when he posts down low he is clogging up the middle on offense, which takes away the room for the switchables to operate. MU does not want the defense to completely collapse around the center, unless our 3 point shots are falling.

Agreed, the idea is to get open shots, if he can hit a 15 footer, that makes him tougher to defend, nothing wrong in expanding his offensive
ability.  He has real soft touch from the free throw line, why not use it?

RawdogDX

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1457
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2011, 02:32:00 PM »
The problem I see is that he is basically a back to the basket scorer, with little "explosion" to his game.  He is way too short at 6'9" to play that way in the NBA. 

DeJuan Blair ?

bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2011, 07:51:45 PM »
DeJuan Blair ?
Blair has very long arms and can also get off his feet quicker. Besides that, I am guessing Blair is taller than Davante, who is not 6'9".

DomJamesToTheBasket

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 608
Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2011, 08:43:11 PM »
I hope I am wrong,but I really do not see his jumping ability improving much if he lost weight. Are there any statistics on MU players standing still jumps as seniors vs what there were as freshmen? I could see them possibly increasing an inch or two, but basically you can either jump or not jump. Even if Gardner increased his jumping ability 3" he still will not be a leaper. He needs his size to take up space.

His vertical will absolutely improve with lost weight,  provided his leg strength remains the same.  It's simple physics.  I don't think his vertical will improve much on lost weight alone,  but Todd will have him doing jumping exercises and probably olympic lifts.  I am sure his vertical will improve by much more than 3" by the time he is a senior....in fact,  I bet he improves 3+ for this season.  It doesn't sound like much,  but 3" will be very noticeable and help his game a ton.  One example of shedding weight with instant athletic upgrade is Alexander Johnson of FSU.  He was a good athlete that went to an elite 40" vertical after dropping 20 pounds fast.  The lone good thing about having a poor vertical is that there is a lot of improvement opportunity.  With the training Davante is going to get,  I see no reason why he can't eventually get his vertical to at least 20,  which would be a huge upgrade to his game.  He has shown the desire and dedication it takes to change his body,  so I would guess he is working hard at his athleticism as well.  Plus,  when getting more athletic he will be able to do more things......have much more fun.......it will give him more desire to continue.  As I have said before,  I think he will make the greatest athletic improvement of any player ever at MU.  He is well on his way.....

 

feedback