MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mviale on June 25, 2011, 09:17:49 PM

Title: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: mviale on June 25, 2011, 09:17:49 PM
16 pts a game
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: robmufan on June 25, 2011, 09:32:26 PM
good post, care to elaborate on your predictions?
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: mviale on June 25, 2011, 09:35:24 PM
Just bank it. You heard it here first.  He really impressed me on the offensive end especially when he was in the game for 15+ min.  Yes, defense was an issue, but I think he will improve with confidence and conditioning.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Markusquette on June 25, 2011, 10:19:43 PM
Maybe 16ppg by his senior year, but I envision around 10ppg and 5 or 6rpg for 2011-2012.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 25, 2011, 10:47:55 PM
I'm feelin' gold at $600/ounce.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: PTM on June 25, 2011, 10:48:50 PM
I'm feelin' gold at $600/ounce.

I got a timeshare in Sheboygan, anyone interested?
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: TallTitan34 on June 25, 2011, 10:59:26 PM
While we are going out on a limb, my prediction is Devante gets drafted in the second round of the 2014 NBA draft.

Bookmark this and save for July 2014.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: 77ncaachamps on June 26, 2011, 01:59:14 AM
While we are going out on a limb, my prediction is Devante gets drafted in the second round of the 2014 NBA draft.

Bookmark this and save for July 2014.

You should boldly link this thread in your sig until draft day +1, 2014.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 26, 2011, 05:40:31 AM
Kate Upton and Carrie Underwood will appear naked at BeeJay's crib.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: dgies9156 on June 26, 2011, 07:36:02 AM
Just bank it. You heard it here first.  He really impressed me on the offensive end especially when he was in the game for 15+ min.  Yes, defense was an issue, but I think he will improve with confidence and conditioning.

And we will win the NCAA Championship in 2011-2012, Al will be canonized and Milwaukee will surpass Chicago as the economic and cultural center of the Midwest.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: PTM on June 26, 2011, 10:10:43 AM
And we will win the NCAA Championship in 2011-2012, Al will be canonized and Milwaukee will surpass Chicago as the economic and cultural center of the Midwest.

Milwaukee would have to pass Madison first, no?
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: PTM on June 26, 2011, 10:11:12 AM
While we are going out on a limb, my prediction is Devante gets drafted in the second round of the 2014 NBA draft.

Bookmark this and save for July 2014.

If he won't, I did.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: AZWarrior on June 26, 2011, 10:20:32 AM
Al will be canonized

Al hasn't already been canonized?
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2011, 10:57:11 AM
Just bank it. You heard it here first.  He really impressed me on the offensive end especially when he was in the game for 15+ min.  Yes, defense was an issue, but I think he will improve with confidence and conditioning.

Tim Maymon is a great guy
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: TallTitan34 on June 26, 2011, 11:12:54 AM
Well done PTM.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: PTM on June 26, 2011, 11:35:40 AM
Well done PTM.

This will only be the start.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: marquette99 on June 26, 2011, 02:57:35 PM
Al said he was looking for a deaf priest for his last confession so he could sneak into purgatory, so canonization may be a stretch, but God loves humility and good humor, so. I'm sure he is fine :-)

It sounds like devante is in good enough shape to putin 16+ this year. The question is still how many minutes he gets vs the great defensive minutes otule gives us.

Now if devante's conditioning results in him being at least average on defense, then I agree that we could have a deadly trio with him right up there with djo and jae giving junior lots of options for feeds.

That kind of fire power could really take the pressure off jamil, juan, vander and others to develop and define their games.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: bilsu on June 26, 2011, 03:07:08 PM
Part of defense is getting rebounds. Gardner is far superior to Otule in the catagory. I can see Gaardner starting, if he comes in 20-25 lbs lighter and I can see him averaging 16 points a game. I can see him becoming a great a college player, but I do not hink he will play in the NBA. He is not tall enough to play center in the NBA and I do not think even with losing weight he will have the athleticism to play power forward in the NBA and is probalby undersized for that position anyways.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on June 26, 2011, 03:58:02 PM
I think Gardner will be a great player at Marquette.  He has great hands and the knack to score a lot of points.  If he starts the season 25 pounds lighter than last year, he will be a big factor for MU!
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: mviale on June 26, 2011, 04:29:50 PM
He is the one player I have seen in the last 5 years that can totally change an oppositions game plan.  Will be interesting to see if Gardner and Otule get shared playing time.

Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: AZWarrior on June 26, 2011, 05:52:34 PM
I'm looking for "ten pounds lighter" and "ten pounds stronger". 

And I expect him to make significant contributions this year.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: DomJamesToTheBasket on June 26, 2011, 08:01:58 PM
16 pts a game


I'm not sure if Davante will get to 16 PPG.....it depends on how much burn he gets.  I do think he will score in double figures and average the most points per minute.  He will be a BEAST.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Marquette84 on June 26, 2011, 08:46:34 PM
From the MU Record book, only 8 sophomores in MU history have averaged 16+ ppg:

1. Mike Moran 20.4 ppg
2. Russ Wittberger 19.4 ppg
3. George Thompson 18.0 ppg
4. Jim Chones 17.9 ppg
5. Dwyane Wade 17.8
6. Tom Flynn 17.3
7. Dean Meminger 16.4
8. Bo Ellis 16.3

16 points/game would put Gardner ahead of Maurice Lucas (15.4 as a soph.).

Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on June 26, 2011, 09:05:58 PM
Devone... it's up to you.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: TallTitan34 on June 26, 2011, 10:49:28 PM
Well its good we aren't setting expectations too high!
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2011, 11:01:44 PM
Well its good we aren't setting expectations too high!

Well stated, but doesn't even have to be in teal because you are right....I thought we would have all learned from the crazy expectations of Vander last year by some.  Let the kids develop, they will hit their strides soon enough but it takes time and different intervals for different kids. 
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: mviale on June 26, 2011, 11:23:16 PM
Chicos - I would like you to call Davante a kid at 6'9" 280

Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: seakm4 on June 26, 2011, 11:46:50 PM
Part of defense is getting rebounds. Gardner is far superior to Otule in the catagory.

One thing i see with Otule is that he doesn't grab the rebounds, but he does a great job of boxing out.  he clears 5 ft in front of him and somebody will swoop in and snag the board for the stat book.  If he did grab all the rebounds that land in his area I'd put him around 6-7 a game.  It's not spectacular but i would classify him as a good rebounder.   And remember how we all thought Otule would be a 10 and 10 guy this year? I think Devonte will play well but I'm going to keep my expectations lower than 16 and potential draft pick in a few years.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: patso on June 27, 2011, 02:00:23 AM
I think by senior year he could be Damon Key #2. Next year he ill not get 16 a game but he will score 16 in about 10 games which will be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: MUMac on June 27, 2011, 07:53:23 AM
Well stated, but doesn't even have to be in teal because you are right....I thought we would have all learned from the crazy expectations of Vander last year by some.  Let the kids develop, they will hit their strides soon enough but it takes time and different intervals for different kids. 

Agreed.  We tend to put unusually high expectations on our players.  When they don't live up to them (which few could), some say they failed.

I don't think out board is any different than any fan base, though.  It's all part of being a fanatic.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: bilsu on June 27, 2011, 08:50:37 AM
From the MU Record book, only 8 sophomores in MU history have averaged 16+ ppg:

1. Mike Moran 20.4 ppg
2. Russ Wittberger 19.4 ppg
3. George Thompson 18.0 ppg
4. Jim Chones 17.9 ppg
5. Dwyane Wade 17.8
6. Tom Flynn 17.3
7. Dean Meminger 16.4
8. Bo Ellis 16.3

16 points/game would put Gardner ahead of Maurice Lucas (15.4 as a soph.).


Lucas played for a different coach, whose offensive style was more conservative. There also was no shot clock and no three point shot to stretch defenses. Even if Gardner averaged 16 points a game that would not make him better than Lucas. Most sophomores do not score a lot, because seniors usually are the focal point of the offense. When Gardner's in the game, getting the ball into him is often the focal point of the offense.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: dgies9156 on June 27, 2011, 08:54:13 AM
Al hasn't already been canonized?

Nope. The Roman Catholic Church requires TWO verified miracles to be canonized. As best I can tell, Al has only one attributable miracle. It's the 2003 Regional Final game against Kentucky. DWade was on fire that day and I doubt he's played a game as good since. I saw Al's hand in that game -- especially given how Al had such a "warm" relationship with former UK Head Coach Adolph Rupp.

So it's the Blessed Al for now!
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: AZWarrior on June 27, 2011, 10:57:28 AM
Nope. The Roman Catholic Church requires TWO verified miracles to be canonized. As best I can tell, Al has only one attributable miracle. It's the 2003 Regional Final game against Kentucky. DWade was on fire that day and I doubt he's played a game as good since. I saw Al's hand in that game -- especially given how Al had such a "warm" relationship with former UK Head Coach Adolph Rupp.

So it's the Blessed Al for now!

Got it.  And as I recall, one of Al's miracles turned out to be a card trick, so that's an obstacle, too.   ;)
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: GGGG on June 27, 2011, 11:13:44 AM
While we are going out on a limb, my prediction is Devante gets drafted in the second round of the 2014 NBA draft.

The problem I see is that he is basically a back to the basket scorer, with little "explosion" to his game.  He is way too short at 6'9" to play that way in the NBA.  Plus he has to seriously improve his defense from last year.

Damon Key is a great analogy.  Had a knack to score, but simply too limited by his body to be successful at the next level.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: NersEllenson on June 27, 2011, 11:46:31 AM
The problem I see is that he is basically a back to the basket scorer, with little "explosion" to his game.  He is way too short at 6'9" to play that way in the NBA.  Plus he has to seriously improve his defense from last year.

Damon Key is a great analogy.  Had a knack to score, but simply too limited by his body to be successful at the next level.

Agree 100%.  Damon Key is a great analogy.  Perhaps if Devante works super hard, he could change his body to where he could compete in a Glen Davis kind of way.  DeJuan Blair transformed his body fairly well during his time at Pitt - but as I recall Blair started with a bit more explosion than we've seen from DG..
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Pakuni on June 27, 2011, 12:06:51 PM
The problem I see is that he is basically a back to the basket scorer, with little "explosion" to his game.  He is way too short at 6'9" to play that way in the NBA.  Plus he has to seriously improve his defense from last year.

Damon Key is a great analogy.  Had a knack to score, but simply too limited by his body to be successful at the next level.

Davante's lack of explosion may (or may not) be attributable to his lack of conditioning. Give him a couple more years of professional training and nutrition, and let's see where he is.
Also, while Damon Key makes for a good comparison, there certainly have been several players of Gardner's body type to make it in the NBA. The aforementioned Glen Davis comes to mind, as do guys like Oliver Miller, Popeye Jones and Zach Randolph. I'm not suggesting Davante will be as good as any f the above, but it's hardly unheard of for a 6'8"+, 270+ pound guy without mad hops to succeed in the NBA.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: mu03eng on June 27, 2011, 12:10:45 PM
Davante's lack of explosion may (or may not) be attributable to his lack of conditioning. Give him a couple more years of professional training and nutrition, and let's see where he is.
Also, while Damon Key makes for a good comparison, there certainly have been several players of Gardner's body type to make it in the NBA. The aforementioned Glen Davis comes to mind, as do guys like Oliver Miller, Popeye Jones and Zach Randolph. I'm not suggesting Davante will be as good as any f the above, but it's hardly unheard of for a 6'8"+, 270+ pound guy without mad hops to succeed in the NBA.

I think the Zach Randolph comparison is apt(physical game, not mental hopefully).  Randolph plays below the rim and has a jump shot and a handle.  Davante at last years Pro-Am showed he has some handle and if he develops a jumper he becomes very tough to handle.  I expect tremendous things out of him his senior year.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: mr.MUskie on June 27, 2011, 05:20:09 PM
My fear with DG losing weight is that without his current bulk, he'll just be another 6'8-6'9 player.  Right now he takes up a lot of space down low, and is strong as... well, as an ox.  If he loses 25 or more pounds, does he lose his advantage?  Granted, he does need to get in better shape in order to have the stamina to go more minutes.  But when it comes to losing weight, is there too much of a good thing?
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: bilsu on June 27, 2011, 05:51:41 PM
My fear with DG losing weight is that without his current bulk, he'll just be another 6'8-6'9 player.  Right now he takes up a lot of space down low, and is strong as... well, as an ox.  If he loses 25 or more pounds, does he lose his advantage?  Granted, he does need to get in better shape in order to have the stamina to go more minutes.  But when it comes to losing weight, is there too much of a good thing?
I do think that is a valid concern. He has learned to play with his size and uses it to his advantage. I do not think getting down to 275 will hurt him, but if he got significantly below that and his athleticism did not improve it could hurt him. I hope I am wrong,but I really do not see his jumping ability improving much if he lost weight. Are there any statistics on MU players standing still jumps as seniors vs what there were as freshmen? I could see them possibly increasing an inch or two, but basically you can either jump or not jump. Even if Gardner increased his jumping ability 3" he still will not be a leaper. He needs his size to take up space.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: NersEllenson on June 27, 2011, 06:44:10 PM
I do think that is a valid concern. He has learned to play with his size and uses it to his advantage. I do not think getting down to 275 will hurt him, but if he got significantly below that and his athleticism did not improve it could hurt him. I hope I am wrong,but I really do not see his jumping ability improving much if he lost weight. Are there any statistics on MU players standing still jumps as seniors vs what there were as freshmen? I could see them possibly increasing an inch or two, but basically you can either jump or not jump. Even if Gardner increased his jumping ability 3" he still will not be a leaper. He needs his size to take up space.

I believe Lazar improved his vertical about 6 inches while at MU.  Could be wrong about that - but the training staff measures everything, and I'd have to think they take benchmark tests of vertical leap and see how players progress over time.  I do agree with you, in that generally - you can either jump well, or not so much regardless of how hard you train.  A body like DG's and with his girthy ankles/legs is a very difficult body type to ever get vertical leap gains...much easier on a guy like Lazar..
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2011, 07:27:43 PM
Chicos - I would like you to call Davante a kid at 6'9" 280



We have a 6'3" kid who is 12 years old on my son's Little League Majors All-Star team (Williamsport division)...that's a big big boy.  We have another one, the son of Derrick Deese (played Offensive Guard on the 49ers for 10 years) who is also on the team...he's about 6'1" and 12 years old.   They're both kids.  I'm not sure what size has to do with it.

If you're under 21, I still call you a kid, I don't care how big they are.  Legally, 18 is an adult but I've seen so many 18, 19, 20 year olds act like 15 year olds at times, I still call them a kid. 

So Davante...you're a kid!  Enjoy it.  Being a kid is great.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: brewcity77 on June 27, 2011, 09:17:51 PM
My fear with DG losing weight is that without his current bulk, he'll just be another 6'8-6'9 player.  Right now he takes up a lot of space down low, and is strong as... well, as an ox.  If he loses 25 or more pounds, does he lose his advantage?  Granted, he does need to get in better shape in order to have the stamina to go more minutes.  But when it comes to losing weight, is there too much of a good thing?

I wouldn't worry about that. I just think about going through the Milwaukee Fire Academy. We had one guy that came in at 255 lbs. After 14 weeks, he was down to 240, but had increased his bench press by about 50 pounds and was all-around much stronger than he was when he came in, despite the loss of some bulk. I ended up gaining 2 pounds but added 40 pounds to my bench and was stronger than I've ever been.

The key for Gardner is that he needs to lose fat and gain muscle. If he can drop 25 pounds of fat and gain 10 pounds of muscle he'll be more physically intimidating than he is now, and while he won't have the sheer bulk, he'll be able to be more forceful on both ends of the court. Losing weight won't hurt him as long as he offsets that loss with a comparable muscle gain. I wouldn't be too worried if he loses 10-20 pounds because his strength gain will probably more than offset the weight loss. If he loses 40-50 pounds, I'd be worried. Muscle weighs more than fat, so a loss that big would probably indicate he didn't have a comparable gain in strength.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: BCHoopster on June 27, 2011, 09:25:43 PM
Everybody is worried about DG's weight, his body will mature good or bad, up to him.  But one of favorite bigs was
Wes Unseld, huge man like DG.  I think DG has learned how to use his body down low, great hands.  My question is,
does Buzz know to utilize what he might have.  Wes Unseld had a great J from the free throw line and extended.  Does
Buzz run an offense to get him in different positions to score.  All Buzz has done with both bigs is set them down low,
not hard to figure out MU's O.  Can Buzz play an high low game or pick and pop, with DG getting the shot.  Options are
there, lets see how Buzz coaches him.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: NersEllenson on June 28, 2011, 10:50:30 AM
Everybody is worried about DG's weight, his body will mature good or bad, up to him.  But one of favorite bigs was
Wes Unseld, huge man like DG.  I think DG has learned how to use his body down low, great hands.  My question is,
does Buzz know to utilize what he might have.  Wes Unseld had a great J from the free throw line and extended.  Does
Buzz run an offense to get him in different positions to score.  All Buzz has done with both bigs is set them down low,
not hard to figure out MU's O.  Can Buzz play an high low game or pick and pop, with DG getting the shot.  Options are
there, lets see how Buzz coaches him.

Well considering Dwight Burke and Otule aren't much of a threat offensively from free throw line extended - not much reason to try do anything with those two other than keep them down low.  Lastly, Buzz's offense is based on paint touches, drive and dish - even though Devante has good shooting touch, doubt you will see much in the way of him being used in pick and pop situations - or running set "plays" to free him for a shot.  Buzz's offense is equal opportunity, and not running a bunch of sets..
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: kmwtrucks on June 28, 2011, 11:14:42 AM
Someone might want to mention this to buzz when running a set play out of time out late in the shot clock or trying to take a last shot at the 1/2 or in late game situation when you are Tied or up and you want to use all the clock.  Running a pick and Pop with DJO and DG would make allot of snese compared to letting DB stand at 28 feet for 15 seconds and then to a few fake hesitations and pull a 26 footer is not giving yourself much of a chance of converting. 

It would get the center out of the middle of the lane and would more then likely also give you a wide open 18-20 footer that DG can hit.  I would take that over a contested 25 footer or a wild drive to the basket everytime.

How many of those late in the shot clock situations did we convert last year 25%?
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: bilsu on June 28, 2011, 12:14:34 PM
Well considering Dwight Burke and Otule aren't much of a threat offensively from free throw line extended - not much reason to try do anything with those two other than keep them down low.  Lastly, Buzz's offense is based on paint touches, drive and dish - even though Devante has good shooting touch, doubt you will see much in the way of him being used in pick and pop situations - or running set "plays" to free him for a shot.  Buzz's offense is equal opportunity, and not running a bunch of sets..
I think Buzz will pull Gardner away from the basket at times. First of all Gardner can shoot from the outside. However, the biggest reason is when he posts down low he is clogging up the middle on offense, which takes away the room for the switchables to operate. MU does not want the defense to completely collapse around the center, unless our 3 point shots are falling.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: BCHoopster on June 28, 2011, 12:32:04 PM
I think Buzz will pull Gardner away from the basket at times. First of all Gardner can shoot from the outside. However, the biggest reason is when he posts down low he is clogging up the middle on offense, which takes away the room for the switchables to operate. MU does not want the defense to completely collapse around the center, unless our 3 point shots are falling.

Agreed, the idea is to get open shots, if he can hit a 15 footer, that makes him tougher to defend, nothing wrong in expanding his offensive
ability.  He has real soft touch from the free throw line, why not use it?
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: RawdogDX on June 28, 2011, 02:32:00 PM
The problem I see is that he is basically a back to the basket scorer, with little "explosion" to his game.  He is way too short at 6'9" to play that way in the NBA. 

DeJuan Blair ?
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: bilsu on June 28, 2011, 07:51:45 PM
DeJuan Blair ?
Blair has very long arms and can also get off his feet quicker. Besides that, I am guessing Blair is taller than Davante, who is not 6'9".
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: DomJamesToTheBasket on June 28, 2011, 08:43:11 PM
I hope I am wrong,but I really do not see his jumping ability improving much if he lost weight. Are there any statistics on MU players standing still jumps as seniors vs what there were as freshmen? I could see them possibly increasing an inch or two, but basically you can either jump or not jump. Even if Gardner increased his jumping ability 3" he still will not be a leaper. He needs his size to take up space.

His vertical will absolutely improve with lost weight,  provided his leg strength remains the same.  It's simple physics.  I don't think his vertical will improve much on lost weight alone,  but Todd will have him doing jumping exercises and probably olympic lifts.  I am sure his vertical will improve by much more than 3" by the time he is a senior....in fact,  I bet he improves 3+ for this season.  It doesn't sound like much,  but 3" will be very noticeable and help his game a ton.  One example of shedding weight with instant athletic upgrade is Alexander Johnson of FSU.  He was a good athlete that went to an elite 40" vertical after dropping 20 pounds fast.  The lone good thing about having a poor vertical is that there is a lot of improvement opportunity.  With the training Davante is going to get,  I see no reason why he can't eventually get his vertical to at least 20,  which would be a huge upgrade to his game.  He has shown the desire and dedication it takes to change his body,  so I would guess he is working hard at his athleticism as well.  Plus,  when getting more athletic he will be able to do more things......have much more fun.......it will give him more desire to continue.  As I have said before,  I think he will make the greatest athletic improvement of any player ever at MU.  He is well on his way.....
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Marqevans on June 28, 2011, 08:59:07 PM
From the MU Record book, only 8 sophomores in MU history have averaged 16+ ppg:

1. Mike Moran 20.4 ppg
2. Russ Wittberger 19.4 ppg
3. George Thompson 18.0 ppg
4. Jim Chones 17.9 ppg
5. Dwyane Wade 17.8
6. Tom Flynn 17.3
7. Dean Meminger 16.4
8. Bo Ellis 16.3



k

16 points/game would put Gardner ahead of Maurice Lucas (15.4 as a soph.).


Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Marqevans on June 28, 2011, 09:07:32 PM
From the MU Record book, only 8 sophomores in MU history have averaged 16+ ppg:

1. Mike Moran 20.4 ppg
2. Russ Wittberger 19.4 ppg
3. George Thompson 18.0 ppg
4. Jim Chones 17.9 ppg
5. Dwyane Wade 17.8
6. Tom Flynn 17.3
7. Dean Meminger 16.4
8. Bo Ellis 16.3

Keep in mind that many of the guys listed did not play on the varsity team until sophmore year as they were forced to play on the freshman team 


16 points/game would put Gardner ahead of Maurice Lucas (15.4 as a soph.).


Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: BCHoopster on June 28, 2011, 09:14:40 PM
If DG averages 16 points a game, MU will be in the Final 4.  I do not see that, as DJO will
average 18, Crowder 14, Otule 6, Cadougan 6, Wilson 12, that would be 72 points with 6
players.  The other 5 will average at least 10-12 so you are at 84 a game, lots of points!
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 28, 2011, 09:54:22 PM
We have a 6'3" kid who is 12 years old on my son's Little League Majors All-Star team (Williamsport division)...

Is there anyone on the planet other than Chicos who would refer to his kid's little league team as the Little League Majors All-Star team (Williamsport division)...? Hilarious.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: mviale on June 28, 2011, 11:03:35 PM
His vertical will absolutely improve with lost weight,  provided his leg strength remains the same.  It's simple physics.  I don't think his vertical will improve much on lost weight alone,  but Todd will have him doing jumping exercises and probably olympic lifts.  I am sure his vertical will improve by much more than 3" by the time he is a senior....in fact,  I bet he improves 3+ for this season.  It doesn't sound like much,  but 3" will be very noticeable and help his game a ton.  One example of shedding weight with instant athletic upgrade is Alexander Johnson of FSU.  He was a good athlete that went to an elite 40" vertical after dropping 20 pounds fast.  The lone good thing about having a poor vertical is that there is a lot of improvement opportunity.  With the training Davante is going to get,  I see no reason why he can't eventually get his vertical to at least 20,  which would be a huge upgrade to his game.  He has shown the desire and dedication it takes to change his body,  so I would guess he is working hard at his athleticism as well.  Plus,  when getting more athletic he will be able to do more things......have much more fun.......it will give him more desire to continue.  As I have said before,  I think he will make the greatest athletic improvement of any player ever at MU.  He is well on his way.....
Another believer.  Much more Faith in Davante than Chicos little league.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2011, 11:37:20 PM
Is there anyone on the planet other than Chicos who would refer to his kid's little league team as the Little League Majors All-Star team (Williamsport division)...? Hilarious.

???

That's what we refer to it out here Lenny and I know they do in some other parts of the country as well.  There are four Little League national championship tournaments...Junior League, Big League, Senior League and Little League (the one most have heard of and televised on ESPN/ABC).   Within Little League, there are the 10 year olds, the 11 year olds and Majors (the 12 year olds).  To cut down on the confusion within Little League, they call it the Williamsport Division because only the 12 year olds can get to Williamsport and play for the World Championship while the 11U teams can only advance to Sectionals and the 10U can only advance to Districts.

So yes, not only is there a person other than me, it's how we describe it out here and other parts of the country.  Would you like a photo of the Little League district t-shirts as one of many examples where it says Williamsport division on it?  Good God you can be an obtuse individual...I'm sorry that in Chicago they didn't refer to it in that manner, but there is a whole big country outside of the greater Chicago area and there sure as hell is better baseball played (at ALL levels) outside of that area.

Send me your address and I'll send you a shirt...I assume XXXL?


Kingsbridge Little League reference to WILLIAMSPORT DIVISION...how dare they and all the way in New York...have they no shame...do they not know that Lenny has spoken  http://www.kingsbridgelittleleague.org/page/why-kbll

Carrollton Little League in Carrollton, Texas....what...they refer to is as the WILLIAMSPORT DIVISION...WHAT??
http://www.leaguelineup.com/information.asp?cmenuid=2&url=carrolltonllb&sid=113923909


Or in the Press

Andover Massachusetts Little League WILLIAMSPORT DIVISION...no way
http://www.eagletribune.com/sports/x1048571348/Little-League-North-Andover-wins-battle-of-Andovers/print

Ventura, California WILLIAMSPORT DIVISION....all the way here in California...oh yeah, already covered that
http://m.vcstar.com/news/2009/jul/30/no-headline---sc6fcyouthresults30yth-fc/

Commack, NY WILLIAMSPORT DIVISION
http://commack.patch.com/articles/commack-south-beats-brentwood-remains-undefeated

Etc, etc






Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2011, 11:46:58 PM
Another believer.  Much more Faith in Davante than Chicos little league.


You're starting to act like Warthog who states something that isn't there.  Show me where I said Davante couldn't get 16 points per game?  I didn't.  What I said was let the kids develop and not put these high expectations on them.  They might get there, they might not but putting that extra expectation on them is not necessary.  Nowhere did I say he couldn't do it or that I don't have faith in him.  I actually think he's a nice player.

Considering about 10+ other people also didn't endorse your position, I suspect they feel left out that you didn't call them out.

We'll have to let it pass...that Tim Maymon...what a great guy.

Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: mviale on June 29, 2011, 08:19:22 AM
@chicos. Just giving you a hard time. I have agreed with you more than not.

Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: bilsu on June 29, 2011, 08:32:54 AM
His vertical will absolutely improve with lost weight,  provided his leg strength remains the same.  It's simple physics.  I don't think his vertical will improve much on lost weight alone,  but Todd will have him doing jumping exercises and probably olympic lifts.  I am sure his vertical will improve by much more than 3" by the time he is a senior....in fact,  I bet he improves 3+ for this season.  It doesn't sound like much,  but 3" will be very noticeable and help his game a ton.  One example of shedding weight with instant athletic upgrade is Alexander Johnson of FSU.  He was a good athlete that went to an elite 40" vertical after dropping 20 pounds fast.  The lone good thing about having a poor vertical is that there is a lot of improvement opportunity.  With the training Davante is going to get,  I see no reason why he can't eventually get his vertical to at least 20,  which would be a huge upgrade to his game.  He has shown the desire and dedication it takes to change his body,  so I would guess he is working hard at his athleticism as well.  Plus,  when getting more athletic he will be able to do more things......have much more fun.......it will give him more desire to continue.  As I have said before,  I think he will make the greatest athletic improvement of any player ever at MU.  He is well on his way.....

If he got his vertical to 20" after losig significant weight, he would become an ineffective player. That jumping ability combined with his overstated height would make him a severally disadvatanged player. He is good offensively now because of his girth and the ability to use it to his advantage.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 29, 2011, 10:35:17 AM
???

That's what we refer to it out here Lenny and I know they do in some other parts of the country as well.  There are four Little League national championship tournaments...Junior League, Big League, Senior League and Little League (the one most have heard of and televised on ESPN/ABC).   Within Little League, there are the 10 year olds, the 11 year olds and Majors (the 12 year olds).  To cut down on the confusion within Little League, they call it the Williamsport Division because only the 12 year olds can get to Williamsport and play for the World Championship while the 11U teams can only advance to Sectionals and the 10U can only advance to Districts.

So yes, not only is there a person other than me, it's how we describe it out here and other parts of the country.  Would you like a photo of the Little League district t-shirts as one of many examples where it says Williamsport division on it?  Good God you can be an obtuse individual...I'm sorry that in Chicago they didn't refer to it in that manner, but there is a whole big country outside of the greater Chicago area and there sure as hell is better baseball played (at ALL levels) outside of that area.

Send me your address and I'll send you a shirt...I assume XXXL?


Kingsbridge Little League reference to WILLIAMSPORT DIVISION...how dare they and all the way in New York...have they no shame...do they not know that Lenny has spoken  http://www.kingsbridgelittleleague.org/page/why-kbll

Carrollton Little League in Carrollton, Texas....what...they refer to is as the WILLIAMSPORT DIVISION...WHAT??
http://www.leaguelineup.com/information.asp?cmenuid=2&url=carrolltonllb&sid=113923909


Or in the Press

Andover Massachusetts Little League WILLIAMSPORT DIVISION...no way
http://www.eagletribune.com/sports/x1048571348/Little-League-North-Andover-wins-battle-of-Andovers/print

Ventura, California WILLIAMSPORT DIVISION....all the way here in California...oh yeah, already covered that
http://m.vcstar.com/news/2009/jul/30/no-headline---sc6fcyouthresults30yth-fc/

Commack, NY WILLIAMSPORT DIVISION
http://commack.patch.com/articles/commack-south-beats-brentwood-remains-undefeated

Etc, etc








My point was simply this: your son (who I'm sure is a great kid) and his little league team had nothing to do with the topic. Instead of mentioning them tangentially to make a point, you had to give us the whole 9 yards (Major, All Star, Williamsport Division, etc.). No big deal. It's just you being you, name dropping without even realizing it. Thought it was funny.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: RawdogDX on June 29, 2011, 10:43:25 AM
Blair has very long arms and can also get off his feet quicker. Besides that, I am guessing Blair is taller than Davante, who is not 6'9".

Blair is actually listed at 6'7 or 6'8 depending on the website.  Not that I'm saying Gardner will be like him at the next level.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: bilsu on June 29, 2011, 11:09:26 AM
Blair is actually listed at 6'7 or 6'8 depending on the website.  Not that I'm saying Gardner will be like him at the next level.
And MU lists Gardner at 6'8", which is is height in shoes.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Pakuni on June 29, 2011, 11:47:38 AM
And MU lists Gardner at 6'8", which is is height in shoes.

Blair measured 6' 6.5" in shoes at the NBA Combine.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on June 29, 2011, 11:55:03 AM
Gardner may be closer to 6'9".   It would be good to see all the players remeasured.  Kids grow at their ages.  We may have a taller team than we think!
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 29, 2011, 12:00:52 PM
???

  Would you like a photo of the Little League district t-shirts as one of many examples where it says Williamsport division on it?  Good God you can be an obtuse individual...





A photo would be good, along with an MU hat and your 2008 "none of the above" ballet.  That way, we know it's your kid.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: bilsu on June 29, 2011, 12:27:06 PM
Gardner may be closer to 6'9".   It would be good to see all the players remeasured.  Kids grow at their ages.  We may have a taller team than we think!
6'8" is what MU lists in 2011-2012 prospectus released by MU this week. I have no idea whether they have remeasured Gardner. Prospectus list Williams as 6'7" and Williams stated last year that all-though Oregon listed him as 6'7" he was closer to 6'5".
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Bocephys on June 29, 2011, 01:14:39 PM
6'8" is what MU lists in 2011-2012 prospectus released by MU this week. I have no idea whether they have remeasured Gardner. Prospectus list Williams as 6'7" and Williams stated last year that all-though Oregon listed him as 6'7" he was closer to 6'5".

Do you mean Jamil Wilson?  I also assume you meant 6'9" and not 6'5" as he is clearly taller than Jimmy Butler.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: bilsu on June 29, 2011, 01:17:14 PM
Yes, I mean Jamil. I would not say he is easily taller than Butler. Maybe sligthly.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: RawdogDX on June 29, 2011, 01:19:59 PM
6'8" is what MU lists in 2011-2012 prospectus released by MU this week. I have no idea whether they have remeasured Gardner. Prospectus list Williams as 6'7" and Williams stated last year that all-though Oregon listed him as 6'7" he was closer to 6'5".

I'm not going to argue as to if Gardner has a half inch on Blaire or if he's a 1/4 inch shorter.  Fact is: there have been some "below the rim players", 6'7 - 6'9 who have been able to play in the NBA.  Once again, I don't think Gardner will be one of them unless his footwork improves immensely and better conditioning = better hops.  Even with that, who knows.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2011, 01:30:17 PM
My point was simply this: your son (who I'm sure is a great kid) and his little league team had nothing to do with the topic. Instead of mentioning them tangentially to make a point, you had to give us the whole 9 yards (Major, All Star, Williamsport Division, etc.). No big deal. It's just you being you, name dropping without even realizing it. Thought it was funny.

Fair enough...I think it did, however.  I was referencing how even 12 year old kids can be 6'3"...size doesn't matter (in this case) whether someone is a kid or not.  I was using a real world example only because every game our boys play in the series the other team starts belly aching about "that's no kid" in reference to our two 6 footers...it reminded me of what mviale was saying.  I could have used any number of other examples, but since that was freshest in my mind as we are in the middle of the All-Stars right now, it's what came to my mind.  I still consider Gardner a kid...hell, I consider most people in their 20's kids, even late 20's.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 29, 2011, 01:41:24 PM
Fair enough...I think it did, however.  I was referencing how even 12 year old kids can be 6'3"...size doesn't matter (in this case) whether someone is a kid or not.  I was using a real world example only because every game our boys play in the series the other team starts belly aching about "that's no kid" in reference to our two 6 footers...it reminded me of what mviale was saying.  I could have used any number of other examples, but since that was freshest in my mind as we are in the middle of the All-Stars right now, it's what came to my mind.  I still consider Gardner a kid...hell, I consider most people in their 20's kids, even late 20's.


Almost eveyone not residing in the "Old Folk's Home" is a kid to me.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on June 29, 2011, 02:09:49 PM
I think Marquette is taller than what's published.  Several years ago the players' heights seemed to listed taller than they really were.  Now, it seems the opposite, that the players are really taller than what is listed.
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: DomJamesToTheBasket on June 29, 2011, 09:46:50 PM
I can confirm the earlier report about Davante looking more like Burke's size now.  Great job Davante!
Title: Re: Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year
Post by: Daniel on June 29, 2011, 10:12:20 PM
I can confirm the earlier report about Davante looking more like Burke's size now.  Great job Davante!

Was speaking with Davante at the BBQ and he indeed look sslimmer, and I was also speaking with Dwight Burke too - who is chiseled. Davante has a ways to go to be in Dwight's shape, but Davante looked very very good - definitely dropped a lot of weight.