An open invite for PuertoRicanNightmare (this is not an attack)

[ChicosBailBonds]

PRN....an article I thought you might enjoy


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=maisel_ivan&id=2784634


Incidentally, they are a darkhorse to go 10-2 or 11-1 this year with their schedule.

[thatman32]

I think marquette fans have low standards for there coach.  Considering how much money is given into the program I would think that the fans would want more then ncaa appearance that turn into 1 and done.  Next years team is inherently flawed because there are going to be no big men that can make a difference.  Instead the team could end up possibly relying on freshman big men and that depends if TC even wants to throw them the ball let alone develop them.  One and done is definitely in the cards considering next years team won't be that much better if nothing changes. 

I don't know who the athletic director was for the last 25 years but he did a pretty bad job when it came to hiring basketball coaches.  So now you have a coach that gets to the ncaa on a regular appearance and he can do no wrong!!!  After next year we might be able to call tom crean our bob huggins.

[maxpower773]

I think marquette fans have low standards for there coach.  Considering how much money is given into the program I would think that the fans would want more then ncaa appearance that turn into 1 and done.  Next years team is inherently flawed because there are going to be no big men that can make a difference.  Instead the team could end up possibly relying on freshman big men and that depends if TC even wants to throw them the ball let alone develop them.  One and done is definitely in the cards considering next years team won't be that much better if nothing changes. 

I don't know who the athletic director was for the last 25 years but he did a pretty bad job when it came to hiring basketball coaches.  So now you have a coach that gets to the ncaa on a regular appearance and he can do no wrong!!!  After next year we might be able to call tom crean our bob huggins.

What does any of that have to do with the rest of the thread? I guess its you though, so whenever you can say how much you disagree with Crean and the money he makes you'll take the chance.

[thatman32]

what does your thread have to do with anything on this thread?  Thanks for being the professor on what to write on a message board.  I never even mentioned "Crean and the money he makes".  If you actually read the words and understood the meaning I was talking about how much (aggregate) money is spent on Mens Basketball.  MU spends a lot of money on their basketball program!!!

I have complimented TC before I just have multiple problems with him.  So maxpower what is this thread about . . . if you could please summarize for all us?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think marquette fans have low standards for there coach.  Considering how much money is given into the program I would think that the fans would want more then ncaa appearance that turn into 1 and done.  Next years team is inherently flawed because there are going to be no big men that can make a difference.  Instead the team could end up possibly relying on freshman big men and that depends if TC even wants to throw them the ball let alone develop them.  One and done is definitely in the cards considering next years team won't be that much better if nothing changes. 

I don't know who the athletic director was for the last 25 years but he did a pretty bad job when it came to hiring basketball coaches.  So now you have a coach that gets to the ncaa on a regular appearance and he can do no wrong!!!  After next year we might be able to call tom crean our bob huggins.

Sigh.

First, there were multiple ADs the last 25 years.  The one for the last 20 years was Cords who got us from Independent, to MCC, to Great Midwest, to CUSA to Big East.

He also didn't hire Dukiet but he did fire him.  He hired KO to turn the program around which KO did.  He then hired Deane to keep it going, which he mostly did.  Then he fired Deane because he felt we could go one step higher and he went with Crean...and we did go higher.

Now, for the rest of your stuff...if you don't mind I'd like to play next year's games before taking your word for it.  I saw an almost completely guard oriented Oregon team move into the Elite 8 tonight and UCLA did it last night.  We have some decent size coming in next year and everyone is a year older...we lose no starters.  Based on that alone and the fact we won 24 games this year, I'd say next year on paper looks pretty good.



FROM TODAY'S LA TIMES

"When Kansas was playing in the 1957 title game, the Bruins had a coach who in nine years had only three NCAA appearances and had won one tournament game — a West Regional consolation game, no less. If that were today, imagine the number of "Fire Wooden" websites that would be out there?"

[thatman32]

So you are going to rely on a freshman(the kid from Minnesota) exclusively because we don't know what the other people big men bring to the table yet.  Doesn't Oregon have athletic forwards that can score??? You can't even compare oregon to marquette for a multitude of reasons.  For example, Oregon can space the floor well because you have to respect their forwards, they can shoot the ball, their point guards dribbles with a purpose and they have an offense. 

You may like our chances but you are assuming that players will improve this off season too. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

PRN -

You have your reasons for not liking Crean, and that is fair. When asked, you've been courageous enough to post them, knowing you'll likely catch flak. That might even be considered admirable.

My problem is this: Regardless of your reasons, you obviously dislike Crean very much. There is no doubt that that taints your objectivity when it comes to posts regarding his performance. Instead of being honest with yourself regarding this issue, it appears you espouse your positions as gospel in an attempt to push your agenda. You clearly cannot be objective, so why pawn off your "insights" as "truths?" Why not simply admit, I do not like the man and so I cannot be objective?

Or do you truly believe you are objective?

Well put, and probably better written then what I previously wrote.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I keep telling myself that I spend too much time on this website.

A few more threads like this and I just may be cured.

It is like six year olds with advanced vocabularies.

I know what you mean, I guess I just started the thread because I wanted to clear the air instead of constant/not-so-subtle shots at Crean and the university. It gets tiring when a lot of threads get hijacked with the same debates over and over again.

Not everybody is going to like everything about MU, but preople should just be honest about it instead of just finding things that fit in an agenda and then posting over and over about it.

Everybody has a bias depending on their point of view... lets just get them out in the open.

[Litehouse]

---"It is like six year olds with advanced vocabularies."

Until the UK fans visit, then it is just like six year olds.

[StillAWarrior]

After reading all (OK, most) of this, I can see why PRN didn't take the bait the first couple of times he was asked to air his "grievances" against Crean.  He gets an "open invite" (certainly not an attacK) so that he can help people understand him better.  Once he is finally goaded into sharing his opinion, then the attack begins.  Obviously, PRN doesn't like Crean because PRN has never experienced success in his own life.  Call me crazy, but suddenly it didn't look like you were just interested in trying to understand where PRN was coming from.

I like Crean, and I'm glad he's our coach.  I've never met PRN and he doesn't need (or probably want) my support, but this is ridiculous.  PRN is free to dislike Crean for any reason that he wants, and I am free to disagree with him about those reasons.  But, I'm not going to personally attack him about it.

[Nukem2]

PR/Goldie, you really think TC sat in the spirit Shop to promote sales of his book to make more money...?  Now, you have really gone off the deep end.  I would rather seriously suspect that he was building goodwill with students and others who came through the shop in order to continue selling the MU program.  Good grief.   Be sure to wear your gold outfits to the games next year!!!

[mu_hilltopper]

I was flip in my first response about the book signing deal.  I reacted that way because, while a portion of Goldie's points were valid, I see zero problem with Crean signing books for students for two reasons.

1. No one was forcing the students to buy books.  They were willingly plunking down cash to buy something they wanted, and wanted autographed.

2. I guarantee that had a kid in line not wanted a book, but wanted his shirt, textbook, iPod, underwear, whatever autographed?  Crean would sign it without hesitation.  There's 1000 stories out there about Crean stopping and chatting with people, autographing, etc.  He's not doing it for the money.  From a PR standpoint, he's a superstar in promoting the program, Marquette, and sure, himself.   No problem with that.  That's what's gotten all those butts in the Bradley Center.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

After reading all (OK, most) of this, I can see why PRN didn't take the bait the first couple of times he was asked to air his "grievances" against Crean.  He gets an "open invite" (certainly not an attacK) so that he can help people understand him better.  Once he is finally goaded into sharing his opinion, then the attack begins.  Obviously, PRN doesn't like Crean because PRN has never experienced success in his own life.  Call me crazy, but suddenly it didn't look like you were just interested in trying to understand where PRN was coming from.

I like Crean, and I'm glad he's our coach.  I've never met PRN and he doesn't need (or probably want) my support, but this is ridiculous.  PRN is free to dislike Crean for any reason that he wants, and I am free to disagree with him about those reasons.  But, I'm not going to personally attack him about it.

You are probably right about the attacks starting after, that was not my intention.

I'm not trying to start an another argument on this board over stuff that is purely speculation and opinion. Everybody has an opinon, and they are entitled to such.

I just want to give everybody (specifically PRN) a chance to tell us what he finds so objectionable about Coach Crean... instead of the subtle jabs and constant criticism without factual backing.

A good example is the whole Andy Katz & Crean relationship. NOBODY on this board really knows the extent or type of relationship they have. To wildly say that Crean talks to Katz so he can get himself mentioned for jobs is very extreme. I'm not saying they don't talk at all, but it's probably not as sinister or as innocent as people has asserted. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Just because Crean gets mentioned for a job (like each of the last 3 years), doesn't mean he's whoring himself out trying to get another job.

[maxpower773]

what does your thread have to do with anything on this thread?  Thanks for being the professor on what to write on a message board.  I never even mentioned "Crean and the money he makes".  If you actually read the words and understood the meaning I was talking about how much (aggregate) money is spent on Mens Basketball.  MU spends a lot of money on their basketball program!!!

I have complimented TC before I just have multiple problems with him.  So maxpower what is this thread about . . . if you could please summarize for all us?

No problem, I took a class on how to post on message boards.....And your question...didn't even have to be asked, you could read the title, the first post, and now 2002mualum's last post which clears it up any more. So I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to figure it out on your own. And of course MU spends a lot of money on their basketball program, its the biggest sport and money maker at the school. None of us like seeing a one and done no matter the circumstances(not having our best player). But some of us are more rational in our criticisms than others are.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So you are going to rely on a freshman(the kid from Minnesota) exclusively because we don't know what the other people big men bring to the table yet.  Doesn't Oregon have athletic forwards that can score??? You can't even compare oregon to marquette for a multitude of reasons.  For example, Oregon can space the floor well because you have to respect their forwards, they can shoot the ball, their point guards dribbles with a purpose and they have an offense. 

You may like our chances but you are assuming that players will improve this off season too. 

No.  Oregon is a guard dominated team also and to suggest otherwise is foolish.

Good post here

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415#S=415&F=2850&T=296992

[ToddPacker]

PRN's whining about Crean selling copies of his book at the bookstore are hillarious.  I worked for a large corporation and, let's just say that they made it quite known that their CEO had a book out on how to succeed in business.  Seriously, jealousy, anyone?

[Marquette84]

You are probably right about the attacks starting after, that was not my intention.

I'm not trying to start an another argument on this board over stuff that is purely speculation and opinion. Everybody has an opinon, and they are entitled to such.

I just want to give everybody (specifically PRN) a chance to tell us what he finds so objectionable about Coach Crean... instead of the subtle jabs and constant criticism without factual backing.

I think had the reasons been legitimate, he wouldn't have drawn the attacks. 

But the degree of pettiness or irrelevance of his supposed justifications are nothing short of incredible. 

--Having famous sports figures as friends
--Assistants who leave--mostly for legitmate better openings
--Transfers--most of which wouldn't have been a major part of the rotation
--Telling the press why Chapman was benched--a mistake which Crean made once and never repeated
--Signing books--which nobody forced the students to buy, and certainly would have signed anything that students offered had they decided not to buy the book.

Do ANY of these justify a continued level of bile and venom that PRN constantly spews? 

These are not what one would call the root cause.

Hundreds of MU fans saw the same things as PRN--we see the frendship with guyy like Sheets or Larussa, we see assistants leaving, or marginal players transferring --but it doesn't turn any of US against Crean. 

I mean, come on--do ANY of you hate someone because they happen to know Ben Sheets or Bill Russell? 

Could there be anything more petty than complaining about an author signing copies of his book?

The answer is no.  His "reasons" for disliking Crean are BS--a smokescreen for some deeper issue.

Maybe his kid was passed over by Crean for a scholie.  Maybe he's a close personal friend of one of the players who transferred.  Maybe he had a crush on Joanie, but Tom stole her away.

All I know is that his talk doesn't match the walk here.  NOBODY would spew as much bile as PRN based on something as innocent as being frends with Ben Sheets, forcing James Matthews to transfer, or signing a book for a kid.   There's something deeper here--and we don't know what it is yet.

[ernie]

"There's something deeper here--and we don't know what it is yet." - Agreed. I read his reasons and thought  -

1 - He is jealous
2 - He is not stating the real reason(s)
3 - How pathetic the "reasons" are

Don't like Crean? Fine, super, whatever.
Don't like Crean for those reasons? .........You have got to be kidding.

[77ncaachamps]

I think, simply put, PRN is a "Final Four or the Highway" kind of fan.

And with our rich basketball history here at MU, I'm with that attitude.

[bma725]

I think, simply put, PRN is a "Final Four or the Highway" kind of fan.

Please, Crean could win the National Championship and PRN would complain because it wasn't won the way he wanted.  He doesn't like Crean and no amount of winning will change that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think, simply put, PRN is a "Final Four or the Highway" kind of fan.

And with our rich basketball history here at MU, I'm with that attitude.

Our last two coaches said that was ridiculous thinking (and they were quoted on it).

Our current coach strives for those Final Fours and has delivered one already.  That's why it's so odd that those that do believe in that attitude have such a thing for this guy.  Deane said NIT should be what we shoot for and then if we go to the NCAA then that's great.  KO said MU could be a school that gets to the Sweet 16 once in awhile.

Here we have Crean talking national championships, has already gone to the Final Four and has a terrific club on paper coming back next year and it's not good enough.

Those expectations are great to have by fans, but when you look around the college landscape there are about 50 other schools that have those same expectations...there are only 4 spots.  Careful what you wish for, you might just help push coaches right out of town. 

I don't think Milwaukee, Wisconsin is on most people's destination dream cities to live in now that we're in the 21st century.  Plenty of great coaching opportunities with tons of money and facilities at warm weather climates with schools that will let anyone with a pulse play for them. 

Careful what you wish for.

[4everwarriors]

Push coaches out of town? Wow, I didn't know MUScoop was that powerful or that Tommy even gave a rat's ass what's written here.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I think, simply put, PRN is a "Final Four or the Highway" kind of fan.

He doesn't like Crean and no amount of winning will change that.

You hit the nail on the head. I don't like the guy. If we win the tournament next year, I will still dislike him. Is there something written on my diploma that requires me to like the personality of our head basketball coach?

Why does it bother some of you that I don't like him?

It's such a great response to claim that, since I don't care for his personality, it stands to reason that I'm "jealous" of him.  Are you guys a bunch of 4th grade girls?

Some of you people act like I'm insulting your mothers.

[Nukem2]

PRN, you ceratainly have a right to your own opinion of people including HC's.  Of course, none of us have to like or agree with all our fellow posters here either.  In short, you seem to be in a minority position with some of your many posts.  So be it.

[mu_hilltopper]

Ok, I think we've had enough here.  Probably should have locked it on message one, as having an honest debate on these subjects, without it degenerating is improbable.