An open invite for PuertoRicanNightmare (this is not an attack)

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Listen, we've all gone around and around debating everything MU related...
 
You have been blasted by a lot of people on this board because they feel that you are critical of Crean whenever/wherever possible simply because you don't like him.

Can you provide everybody some rationale on why you don't like him? I think that might help people understand your position.

As it stands now, you just appear bitter about something, and you appear to try to discredit Crean whenever possible.

I don't think Crean is God, and I'm open to all points of view (even critical ones)... but I (and others) are having a tough time understanding where you are coming from.

I don't want this to sound like an attack... I'm honestly just asking the question because I'm tired of everybody using inuendos or "beating around the bush".

If you dislike him so much, please tell us why...

[Djgoldnboy]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

The real questions are why bother and who cares?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

The real questions are why bother and who cares?

I know what you mean, I guess I'm really trying to give him a fair chance to tell everybody what his deal is.

Disliking Crean is not a crime... there are a lot of people in the world I don't like... its just that I have a reason.

Why does he dislike Crean?

I didn't like Mike Deane as a coach, but it doesn't make me a bad person.

Here are my reasons:

- he was a good x and o's guy, but played an "ugly" style that I didn't think would be effective at a high level
- He was kinda cool because he would drink with students and alumni occasionally, but on the whole he didn't seem to care too much about either the students or the alumni
- He couldn't/didn't recruit elite talent
- He didn't represent MU in the best ways possible... I mean he did OK, but he definitely wasn't charismatic enough to lift MU to another level. I know that is not neccisarily a coach's job, but MU needed/needs a coach that can help market the U because there is no football.

See how easy that was???

[Murffieus]

There are two Tom Creans---one the man---the other the coach-----one can  be critical of the coach and still like the man!

[ChicosBailBonds]

There are two Tom Creans---one the man---the other the coach-----one can  be critical of the coach and still like the man!

Or vice versa

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

There are a series of things that have bothered me about him over the year, many of which I have discussed on these boards. I won't go into them.

Suffice it to say I think he's done a very nice job with MU. I just don't think he's as wonderful as some -- here and in the media -- like to believe. I just wouldn't be sorry to see him go.

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

There are a series of things that have bothered me about him over the year, many of which I have discussed on these boards. I won't go into them.

Suffice it to say I think he's done a very nice job with MU. I just don't think he's as wonderful as some -- here and in the media -- like to believe. I just wouldn't be sorry to see him go.

For those who haven't been here long why can't you just gloss over your grievances?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

There are two Tom Creans---one the man---the other the coach-----one can  be critical of the coach and still like the man!

I agree with you... and I think that's the issue we are having.

I don't always agree with Crean's coaching, and I have no problem with people voicing their opinion about coaching OR him personally... I just think rationale is needed... otherwise it just comes off as an attack and/or bitterness rather that discussion or valid criticism.

Whether PRN likes it or not, without providing some rational behind his dislike, he just comes off as a "jealous ex-girlfriend/boyfirend". It doesn't matter what anybody says, he's just always going to hate Crean.

Tom Crean could win the national title 10 years in a row, and PRN would still take shots at him because he never really wants people to like Tom Crean, because he doesn't like Tom Crean. 

PRN, if you don't like him, just tell us why... and don't be vague... just tell us in a few bullet points. What about him personally do you find so offensive?

I'm giving you every opportunity to tell everybody why we shouldn't like him... just put it in black and white.

I'll even start:

Here are some things I don't like about his coaching:
- I don't like that the entire offense is based off the dribble. I prefer offenses with more off of the ball movement. I think that is why it becomes hard for MU to score, because they always have to start with some sort of drive rather than just good off ball screens and movement trying to create an advantage or an easy shot.

- I like the physical defense, but I wish they would press more and sub guys in more frequently. I think MU's guards would be more effective if they could essentially wear down the other team's back court

See how easy it is?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Here are a few reasons:

• He's an insufferable name-dropper and is clearly impressed with celebrity. Tony LaRussa, Ben Sheets, Bill Russell? Who cares?
• I don't like that his assistant coaches flee every year like the bird flu is running through the AL. He cites it as a sign of a healthy program, yet he stayed at MSU for at least 4 years. Was that program unhealthy? How long was Izzo an assistant to Jud Heathcoate? Bruce Weber with Gene Keady? Billy Donovan with Rick Pinito? Unhealthy? If co-workers are beating the door to get out, there is something wrong
• I don't like the number of transfers, regardless of the reason these guys left. Crean brought them in, but they always seem to be damaged goods when they leave.
• I don't like that he hung Joe Chapman out to dry in the media before his senior year and then, after 4 years of hard work, made him ride the pine until Matthews got hurt. Any reason Matthews couldn't have come off the bench for the 25 minutes a game he was getting? No...unless he was promised a starting job in the recruiting process. That's fine, too, but don't rip the senior in the media! Is Wes a better player in the long run? Absolutely, but after his injury it was clear who was the more valuable player. Joe deserved MUCH better.
• Despite his lofty salary, he had the audacity to take advantage of naive students seeking his autograph by actually sitting in the MU Spirit Shop in an effort to sell books!!

I could go on, but the truth is, I don't know Tom Crean from Adam's Off Ox. I read these things and it forms an impression.

Some of you guys think he walks on water. I happen to think it's a classic case of the emperor having no clothes on.

[mu_hilltopper]

• Despite his lofty salary, he had the audacity to take advantage of naive students seeking his autograph by actually sitting in the MU Spirit Shop in an effort to sell books!!

THAT BASTARD!  I HAVE A LITTLE VOMIT IN MY MOUTH RIGHT NOW!  THE NERVE!

[maxpower773]

Are those your only reasons? I understand the middle 2 points and partially agree with them. But your other 3 points just seem a bit childish, like you're holding a grudge against him or something. First, with your first point...if you say who cares then why does it bother you so much? And big deal, Chapman sat on the bench and came in to play when we needed. Crean saw Wesley as the best fit and thought the rotation would be best this way(yes this is just a guess, not his actual thoughts). And its funny how you say he ripped him in the media...I don't know if it was you exactly but I wouldn't doubt that you've said this on here, but I've seen plenty of times on here after games on why doesn't Crean call out his players after losses...what's the difference, Joe wasn't playing like he should have...like a senior should have at that point in the season. Now you say this is a problem, him calling out Joe in the media. And the last one I just don't get, want to explain that. Oh and one question for you and other Crean haters(not criticizers....)...Do YOU pay Crean's salary?

[4everwarriors]

Rican. The cat does make valid points. Gotta hand it to TC, he's quick with the tongue. Problem being, he just isn't believable. That may work in selling cars, but after 8 years here, you can see right through it.

[ecompt]

Look, there are times I scratch my head at the things he's doing during a game. But the guy has gone 20-12 in two seasons in one of the premier basketball conferences in the country. And his players graduate. And the program is clean.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Are those your only reasons? I understand the middle 2 points and partially agree with them. But your other 3 points just seem a bit childish, like you're holding a grudge against him or something. First, with your first point...if you say who cares then why does it bother you so much? And big deal, Chapman sat on the bench and came in to play when we needed. Crean saw Wesley as the best fit and thought the rotation would be best this way(yes this is just a guess, not his actual thoughts). And its funny how you say he ripped him in the media...I don't know if it was you exactly but I wouldn't doubt that you've said this on here, but I've seen plenty of times on here after games on why doesn't Crean call out his players after losses...what's the difference, Joe wasn't playing like he should have...like a senior should have at that point in the season. Now you say this is a problem, him calling out Joe in the media. And the last one I just don't get, want to explain that. Oh and one question for you and other Crean haters(not criticizers....)...Do YOU pay Crean's salary?

I've said dozens of times that I don't care about his salary. Good for him.

My point about the bookstore is...does he really need to get that extra $9.99 out of some sophomore or junior working in the food line at SAGA or driving a Marquette LIMO? It's tacky as hell.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Here are a few reasons:

• He's an insufferable name-dropper and is clearly impressed with celebrity. Tony LaRussa, Ben Sheets, Bill Russell? Who cares?
• I don't like that his assistant coaches flee every year like the bird flu is running through the AL. He cites it as a sign of a healthy program, yet he stayed at MSU for at least 4 years. Was that program unhealthy? How long was Izzo an assistant to Jud Heathcoate? Bruce Weber with Gene Keady? Billy Donovan with Rick Pinito? Unhealthy? If co-workers are beating the door to get out, there is something wrong
• I don't like the number of transfers, regardless of the reason these guys left. Crean brought them in, but they always seem to be damaged goods when they leave.
• I don't like that he hung Joe Chapman out to dry in the media before his senior year and then, after 4 years of hard work, made him ride the pine until Matthews got hurt. Any reason Matthews couldn't have come off the bench for the 25 minutes a game he was getting? No...unless he was promised a starting job in the recruiting process. That's fine, too, but don't rip the senior in the media! Is Wes a better player in the long run? Absolutely, but after his injury it was clear who was the more valuable player. Joe deserved MUCH better.
• Despite his lofty salary, he had the audacity to take advantage of naive students seeking his autograph by actually sitting in the MU Spirit Shop in an effort to sell books!!

I could go on, but the truth is, I don't know Tom Crean from Adam's Off Ox. I read these things and it forms an impression.

Some of you guys think he walks on water. I happen to think it's a classic case of the emperor having no clothes on.

Fair enough.

I'll be honest and tell you that I disagree with some of what you put forth, but its opinion stuff... so we can just disagree and that's fine.

I will say that like you, I don't know coach Crean (met him a couple of times, but I don't personally know him), but I give him the benefit of the doubt because he has done so many good things for MU hoops and for the MU community. (al's run, team visiting elementary schools and hospitals, hunger clean-up, former players speak highly of him, the university has made a commitment to him,  other people in the industry speak highly of him, etc.)... he's got a good track record. I was at MU for Deane and for Crean, and I can tell you that Crean breathed a lot of life into the program and campus. 

He is not without his flaws, but he is not without his positives. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on ever facet of the Crean's life... but he appears to be doing pretty well.

I just hope you don't let your personal feelings about him cloud your judgement on what he has, and still can do for this program. He has done a fantastic job at MU... and this team is still on the rise.

Oh, also, you said you have formed all of these opinons based upon things you have read, and I guess that makes sense... because I have read a lot of your posts and in my opinion you are just the type of guy who is always going to be critical of people with success because you have never had any.

It doesn't matter who the coach is, who the players are, what color everybody is wearing, or what the mascot is... you are still going to b*tch just as much. 

[maxpower773]

Are those your only reasons? I understand the middle 2 points and partially agree with them. But your other 3 points just seem a bit childish, like you're holding a grudge against him or something. First, with your first point...if you say who cares then why does it bother you so much? And big deal, Chapman sat on the bench and came in to play when we needed. Crean saw Wesley as the best fit and thought the rotation would be best this way(yes this is just a guess, not his actual thoughts). And its funny how you say he ripped him in the media...I don't know if it was you exactly but I wouldn't doubt that you've said this on here, but I've seen plenty of times on here after games on why doesn't Crean call out his players after losses...what's the difference, Joe wasn't playing like he should have...like a senior should have at that point in the season. Now you say this is a problem, him calling out Joe in the media. And the last one I just don't get, want to explain that. Oh and one question for you and other Crean haters(not criticizers....)...Do YOU pay Crean's salary?

I've said dozens of times that I don't care about his salary. Good for him.

My point about the bookstore is...does he really need to get that extra $9.99 out of some sophomore or junior working in the food line at SAGA or driving a Marquette LIMO? It's tacky as hell.

Ok, well sorry about the salary thing...I didn't know if you've said it or not....and now I know. And I never knew that about the bookstore thing....

[Sir Lawrence]

"so we can just disagree and that's fine.
........
and in my opinion you are just the type of guy who is always going to be critical of people with success because you have never had any."

 


So disagree, but how do you have any basis to say that PRN has had no success?  That's just wrong.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

so we can just disagree and that's fine.

and in my opinion you are just the type of guy who is always going to be critical of people with success because you have never had any.

 

So disagree, but how do you have any basis to say that PRN has had no success?  That's just wrong.
[/quote]

That's exactly the point. He has made up his mind about coach Crean without really knowing him... just "based upon things he has read"... so based upon what I have read... I have formed an opinion about him. It's the same thing.

[Marquette84]

My point about the bookstore is...does he really need to get that extra $9.99 out of some sophomore or junior working in the food line at SAGA or driving a Marquette LIMO? It's tacky as hell.

Yes, and damn all those Hollywood stars.  Imagine, with the money they are making actually trying to get another $9.00 for poor students when they want to see a first run movie.

And a pox on all those musicians--how dare they expect poor students to drop 42.50 on concert tickets--and then have to pay another 20 for the T-shirt.

And what a terrible terrible state of affairs that Miller, Budweiser, etc. expect that these students have to pay for their beer.  Tacky tacky tacky.

And for those unlucky enough to own cars, how dare the gas stations open up on the streets just waiting to take advantage and charge for fuel.

And boo on Starbucks.  How can they live at night charging for a cup of coffee, cappucino or espresso.

And shut down Real Chilli for their transgressions.  Imagine--they actually charge MONEY for Chili!! Truly amazing their depravity!!!

And all those hotels in Florida, Texas, Cabo, etc.  They should open their doors at spring break as a pure courtesy--not trying to grub money from students who merely want a place to sleep. 

And Abercrombie, AEO, Hollister, etc.  How DARE they SELL clothing.

Did we dis the local bars yet?  I think not.  But they are most CERTAINLY tacky as hell for not opening up the taps and letting the beer flow for free. 

[Pardner]

Did we dis the local bars yet?  I think not.  But they are most CERTAINLY tacky as hell for not opening up the taps and letting the beer flow for free. 

Yeah, what about eight RWAB's at the Lanche for $1 and 2:00AM  "dine and dash" specials at George Webb's and the Ham & Egger...oh wait...I guess I will never make it to head coach anywhere

[mviale]

PRN ~ I often agree with you and I know what you mean by your comments.  However, a Pete Carrill or even a Dick Harter type does not cut it in top 20 basketball today.  Crean has been successful and He may be the only reason that you give Marquette a thought each week.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

And what a terrible terrible state of affairs that Miller, Budweiser, etc. expect that these students have to pay for their beer.  Tacky tacky tacky.

And for those unlucky enough to own cars, how dare the gas stations open up on the streets just waiting to take advantage and charge for fuel.

And boo on Starbucks.  How can they live at night charging for a cup of coffee, cappucino or espresso.

And shut down Real Chilli for their transgressions.  Imagine--they actually charge MONEY for Chili!! Truly amazing their depravity!!!

And all those hotels in Florida, Texas, Cabo, etc.  They should open their doors at spring break as a pure courtesy--not trying to grub money from students who merely want a place to sleep. 

And Abercrombie, AEO, Hollister, etc.  How DARE they SELL clothing.

Did we dis the local bars yet?  I think not.  But they are most CERTAINLY tacky as hell for not opening up the taps and letting the beer flow for free. 

These examples that you provide are actually proving my point. Do the CEOs of Budweiser and Miller sit in their respective lunchrooms trying to sell cases of beer to their employees?   And something tells me the employees over at Real Chili are not paying to eat the Marquette Special.

[MUCam]

PRN -

You have your reasons for not liking Crean, and that is fair. When asked, you've been courageous enough to post them, knowing you'll likely catch flak. That might even be considered admirable.

My problem is this: Regardless of your reasons, you obviously dislike Crean very much. There is no doubt that that taints your objectivity when it comes to posts regarding his performance. Instead of being honest with yourself regarding this issue, it appears you espouse your positions as gospel in an attempt to push your agenda. You clearly cannot be objective, so why pawn off your "insights" as "truths?" Why not simply admit, I do not like the man and so I cannot be objective?

Or do you truly believe you are objective?

[MUEng92]

I keep telling myself that I spend too much time on this website.

A few more threads like this and I just may be cured.

It is like six year olds with advanced vocabularies.

[MUCam]

If there is a reason to stay on this website, it is for lines like this:

"It is like six year olds with advanced vocabularies."

Classic, even if it is intended to include my previous comments. Too funny. Too true.

[ChicosBailBonds]

PRN....an article I thought you might enjoy


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=maisel_ivan&id=2784634


Incidentally, they are a darkhorse to go 10-2 or 11-1 this year with their schedule.

[thatman32]

I think marquette fans have low standards for there coach.  Considering how much money is given into the program I would think that the fans would want more then ncaa appearance that turn into 1 and done.  Next years team is inherently flawed because there are going to be no big men that can make a difference.  Instead the team could end up possibly relying on freshman big men and that depends if TC even wants to throw them the ball let alone develop them.  One and done is definitely in the cards considering next years team won't be that much better if nothing changes. 

I don't know who the athletic director was for the last 25 years but he did a pretty bad job when it came to hiring basketball coaches.  So now you have a coach that gets to the ncaa on a regular appearance and he can do no wrong!!!  After next year we might be able to call tom crean our bob huggins.

[maxpower773]

I think marquette fans have low standards for there coach.  Considering how much money is given into the program I would think that the fans would want more then ncaa appearance that turn into 1 and done.  Next years team is inherently flawed because there are going to be no big men that can make a difference.  Instead the team could end up possibly relying on freshman big men and that depends if TC even wants to throw them the ball let alone develop them.  One and done is definitely in the cards considering next years team won't be that much better if nothing changes. 

I don't know who the athletic director was for the last 25 years but he did a pretty bad job when it came to hiring basketball coaches.  So now you have a coach that gets to the ncaa on a regular appearance and he can do no wrong!!!  After next year we might be able to call tom crean our bob huggins.

What does any of that have to do with the rest of the thread? I guess its you though, so whenever you can say how much you disagree with Crean and the money he makes you'll take the chance.

[thatman32]

what does your thread have to do with anything on this thread?  Thanks for being the professor on what to write on a message board.  I never even mentioned "Crean and the money he makes".  If you actually read the words and understood the meaning I was talking about how much (aggregate) money is spent on Mens Basketball.  MU spends a lot of money on their basketball program!!!

I have complimented TC before I just have multiple problems with him.  So maxpower what is this thread about . . . if you could please summarize for all us?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think marquette fans have low standards for there coach.  Considering how much money is given into the program I would think that the fans would want more then ncaa appearance that turn into 1 and done.  Next years team is inherently flawed because there are going to be no big men that can make a difference.  Instead the team could end up possibly relying on freshman big men and that depends if TC even wants to throw them the ball let alone develop them.  One and done is definitely in the cards considering next years team won't be that much better if nothing changes. 

I don't know who the athletic director was for the last 25 years but he did a pretty bad job when it came to hiring basketball coaches.  So now you have a coach that gets to the ncaa on a regular appearance and he can do no wrong!!!  After next year we might be able to call tom crean our bob huggins.

Sigh.

First, there were multiple ADs the last 25 years.  The one for the last 20 years was Cords who got us from Independent, to MCC, to Great Midwest, to CUSA to Big East.

He also didn't hire Dukiet but he did fire him.  He hired KO to turn the program around which KO did.  He then hired Deane to keep it going, which he mostly did.  Then he fired Deane because he felt we could go one step higher and he went with Crean...and we did go higher.

Now, for the rest of your stuff...if you don't mind I'd like to play next year's games before taking your word for it.  I saw an almost completely guard oriented Oregon team move into the Elite 8 tonight and UCLA did it last night.  We have some decent size coming in next year and everyone is a year older...we lose no starters.  Based on that alone and the fact we won 24 games this year, I'd say next year on paper looks pretty good.



FROM TODAY'S LA TIMES

"When Kansas was playing in the 1957 title game, the Bruins had a coach who in nine years had only three NCAA appearances and had won one tournament game — a West Regional consolation game, no less. If that were today, imagine the number of "Fire Wooden" websites that would be out there?"

[thatman32]

So you are going to rely on a freshman(the kid from Minnesota) exclusively because we don't know what the other people big men bring to the table yet.  Doesn't Oregon have athletic forwards that can score??? You can't even compare oregon to marquette for a multitude of reasons.  For example, Oregon can space the floor well because you have to respect their forwards, they can shoot the ball, their point guards dribbles with a purpose and they have an offense. 

You may like our chances but you are assuming that players will improve this off season too. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

PRN -

You have your reasons for not liking Crean, and that is fair. When asked, you've been courageous enough to post them, knowing you'll likely catch flak. That might even be considered admirable.

My problem is this: Regardless of your reasons, you obviously dislike Crean very much. There is no doubt that that taints your objectivity when it comes to posts regarding his performance. Instead of being honest with yourself regarding this issue, it appears you espouse your positions as gospel in an attempt to push your agenda. You clearly cannot be objective, so why pawn off your "insights" as "truths?" Why not simply admit, I do not like the man and so I cannot be objective?

Or do you truly believe you are objective?

Well put, and probably better written then what I previously wrote.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I keep telling myself that I spend too much time on this website.

A few more threads like this and I just may be cured.

It is like six year olds with advanced vocabularies.

I know what you mean, I guess I just started the thread because I wanted to clear the air instead of constant/not-so-subtle shots at Crean and the university. It gets tiring when a lot of threads get hijacked with the same debates over and over again.

Not everybody is going to like everything about MU, but preople should just be honest about it instead of just finding things that fit in an agenda and then posting over and over about it.

Everybody has a bias depending on their point of view... lets just get them out in the open.

[Litehouse]

---"It is like six year olds with advanced vocabularies."

Until the UK fans visit, then it is just like six year olds.

[StillAWarrior]

After reading all (OK, most) of this, I can see why PRN didn't take the bait the first couple of times he was asked to air his "grievances" against Crean.  He gets an "open invite" (certainly not an attacK) so that he can help people understand him better.  Once he is finally goaded into sharing his opinion, then the attack begins.  Obviously, PRN doesn't like Crean because PRN has never experienced success in his own life.  Call me crazy, but suddenly it didn't look like you were just interested in trying to understand where PRN was coming from.

I like Crean, and I'm glad he's our coach.  I've never met PRN and he doesn't need (or probably want) my support, but this is ridiculous.  PRN is free to dislike Crean for any reason that he wants, and I am free to disagree with him about those reasons.  But, I'm not going to personally attack him about it.

[Nukem2]

PR/Goldie, you really think TC sat in the spirit Shop to promote sales of his book to make more money...?  Now, you have really gone off the deep end.  I would rather seriously suspect that he was building goodwill with students and others who came through the shop in order to continue selling the MU program.  Good grief.   Be sure to wear your gold outfits to the games next year!!!

[mu_hilltopper]

I was flip in my first response about the book signing deal.  I reacted that way because, while a portion of Goldie's points were valid, I see zero problem with Crean signing books for students for two reasons.

1. No one was forcing the students to buy books.  They were willingly plunking down cash to buy something they wanted, and wanted autographed.

2. I guarantee that had a kid in line not wanted a book, but wanted his shirt, textbook, iPod, underwear, whatever autographed?  Crean would sign it without hesitation.  There's 1000 stories out there about Crean stopping and chatting with people, autographing, etc.  He's not doing it for the money.  From a PR standpoint, he's a superstar in promoting the program, Marquette, and sure, himself.   No problem with that.  That's what's gotten all those butts in the Bradley Center.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

After reading all (OK, most) of this, I can see why PRN didn't take the bait the first couple of times he was asked to air his "grievances" against Crean.  He gets an "open invite" (certainly not an attacK) so that he can help people understand him better.  Once he is finally goaded into sharing his opinion, then the attack begins.  Obviously, PRN doesn't like Crean because PRN has never experienced success in his own life.  Call me crazy, but suddenly it didn't look like you were just interested in trying to understand where PRN was coming from.

I like Crean, and I'm glad he's our coach.  I've never met PRN and he doesn't need (or probably want) my support, but this is ridiculous.  PRN is free to dislike Crean for any reason that he wants, and I am free to disagree with him about those reasons.  But, I'm not going to personally attack him about it.

You are probably right about the attacks starting after, that was not my intention.

I'm not trying to start an another argument on this board over stuff that is purely speculation and opinion. Everybody has an opinon, and they are entitled to such.

I just want to give everybody (specifically PRN) a chance to tell us what he finds so objectionable about Coach Crean... instead of the subtle jabs and constant criticism without factual backing.

A good example is the whole Andy Katz & Crean relationship. NOBODY on this board really knows the extent or type of relationship they have. To wildly say that Crean talks to Katz so he can get himself mentioned for jobs is very extreme. I'm not saying they don't talk at all, but it's probably not as sinister or as innocent as people has asserted. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Just because Crean gets mentioned for a job (like each of the last 3 years), doesn't mean he's whoring himself out trying to get another job.

[maxpower773]

what does your thread have to do with anything on this thread?  Thanks for being the professor on what to write on a message board.  I never even mentioned "Crean and the money he makes".  If you actually read the words and understood the meaning I was talking about how much (aggregate) money is spent on Mens Basketball.  MU spends a lot of money on their basketball program!!!

I have complimented TC before I just have multiple problems with him.  So maxpower what is this thread about . . . if you could please summarize for all us?

No problem, I took a class on how to post on message boards.....And your question...didn't even have to be asked, you could read the title, the first post, and now 2002mualum's last post which clears it up any more. So I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to figure it out on your own. And of course MU spends a lot of money on their basketball program, its the biggest sport and money maker at the school. None of us like seeing a one and done no matter the circumstances(not having our best player). But some of us are more rational in our criticisms than others are.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So you are going to rely on a freshman(the kid from Minnesota) exclusively because we don't know what the other people big men bring to the table yet.  Doesn't Oregon have athletic forwards that can score??? You can't even compare oregon to marquette for a multitude of reasons.  For example, Oregon can space the floor well because you have to respect their forwards, they can shoot the ball, their point guards dribbles with a purpose and they have an offense. 

You may like our chances but you are assuming that players will improve this off season too. 

No.  Oregon is a guard dominated team also and to suggest otherwise is foolish.

Good post here

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415#S=415&F=2850&T=296992

[ToddPacker]

PRN's whining about Crean selling copies of his book at the bookstore are hillarious.  I worked for a large corporation and, let's just say that they made it quite known that their CEO had a book out on how to succeed in business.  Seriously, jealousy, anyone?

[Marquette84]

You are probably right about the attacks starting after, that was not my intention.

I'm not trying to start an another argument on this board over stuff that is purely speculation and opinion. Everybody has an opinon, and they are entitled to such.

I just want to give everybody (specifically PRN) a chance to tell us what he finds so objectionable about Coach Crean... instead of the subtle jabs and constant criticism without factual backing.

I think had the reasons been legitimate, he wouldn't have drawn the attacks. 

But the degree of pettiness or irrelevance of his supposed justifications are nothing short of incredible. 

--Having famous sports figures as friends
--Assistants who leave--mostly for legitmate better openings
--Transfers--most of which wouldn't have been a major part of the rotation
--Telling the press why Chapman was benched--a mistake which Crean made once and never repeated
--Signing books--which nobody forced the students to buy, and certainly would have signed anything that students offered had they decided not to buy the book.

Do ANY of these justify a continued level of bile and venom that PRN constantly spews? 

These are not what one would call the root cause.

Hundreds of MU fans saw the same things as PRN--we see the frendship with guyy like Sheets or Larussa, we see assistants leaving, or marginal players transferring --but it doesn't turn any of US against Crean. 

I mean, come on--do ANY of you hate someone because they happen to know Ben Sheets or Bill Russell? 

Could there be anything more petty than complaining about an author signing copies of his book?

The answer is no.  His "reasons" for disliking Crean are BS--a smokescreen for some deeper issue.

Maybe his kid was passed over by Crean for a scholie.  Maybe he's a close personal friend of one of the players who transferred.  Maybe he had a crush on Joanie, but Tom stole her away.

All I know is that his talk doesn't match the walk here.  NOBODY would spew as much bile as PRN based on something as innocent as being frends with Ben Sheets, forcing James Matthews to transfer, or signing a book for a kid.   There's something deeper here--and we don't know what it is yet.

[ernie]

"There's something deeper here--and we don't know what it is yet." - Agreed. I read his reasons and thought  -

1 - He is jealous
2 - He is not stating the real reason(s)
3 - How pathetic the "reasons" are

Don't like Crean? Fine, super, whatever.
Don't like Crean for those reasons? .........You have got to be kidding.

[77ncaachamps]

I think, simply put, PRN is a "Final Four or the Highway" kind of fan.

And with our rich basketball history here at MU, I'm with that attitude.

[bma725]

I think, simply put, PRN is a "Final Four or the Highway" kind of fan.

Please, Crean could win the National Championship and PRN would complain because it wasn't won the way he wanted.  He doesn't like Crean and no amount of winning will change that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think, simply put, PRN is a "Final Four or the Highway" kind of fan.

And with our rich basketball history here at MU, I'm with that attitude.

Our last two coaches said that was ridiculous thinking (and they were quoted on it).

Our current coach strives for those Final Fours and has delivered one already.  That's why it's so odd that those that do believe in that attitude have such a thing for this guy.  Deane said NIT should be what we shoot for and then if we go to the NCAA then that's great.  KO said MU could be a school that gets to the Sweet 16 once in awhile.

Here we have Crean talking national championships, has already gone to the Final Four and has a terrific club on paper coming back next year and it's not good enough.

Those expectations are great to have by fans, but when you look around the college landscape there are about 50 other schools that have those same expectations...there are only 4 spots.  Careful what you wish for, you might just help push coaches right out of town. 

I don't think Milwaukee, Wisconsin is on most people's destination dream cities to live in now that we're in the 21st century.  Plenty of great coaching opportunities with tons of money and facilities at warm weather climates with schools that will let anyone with a pulse play for them. 

Careful what you wish for.

[4everwarriors]

Push coaches out of town? Wow, I didn't know MUScoop was that powerful or that Tommy even gave a rat's ass what's written here.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I think, simply put, PRN is a "Final Four or the Highway" kind of fan.

He doesn't like Crean and no amount of winning will change that.

You hit the nail on the head. I don't like the guy. If we win the tournament next year, I will still dislike him. Is there something written on my diploma that requires me to like the personality of our head basketball coach?

Why does it bother some of you that I don't like him?

It's such a great response to claim that, since I don't care for his personality, it stands to reason that I'm "jealous" of him.  Are you guys a bunch of 4th grade girls?

Some of you people act like I'm insulting your mothers.

[Nukem2]

PRN, you ceratainly have a right to your own opinion of people including HC's.  Of course, none of us have to like or agree with all our fellow posters here either.  In short, you seem to be in a minority position with some of your many posts.  So be it.

[mu_hilltopper]

Ok, I think we've had enough here.  Probably should have locked it on message one, as having an honest debate on these subjects, without it degenerating is improbable.