collapse

Resources

2024-2025 SOTG Tally


2024-25 Season SoG Tally
Jones, K.10
Mitchell6
Joplin4
Ross2
Gold1

'23-24 '22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

Big East Standings

Recent Posts

Recruiting as of 7/15/25 by JTJ3
[Today at 10:26:33 AM]


Scholarship Table by rocky_warrior
[Today at 10:16:22 AM]


NM by MU82
[Today at 09:10:42 AM]


MU @ TBT? by Uncle Rico
[Today at 06:29:25 AM]


Open practice by jfp61
[July 19, 2025, 10:03:37 AM]


TBT by #UnleashSean
[July 18, 2025, 07:01:47 PM]


Pearson to MU by Jay Bee
[July 18, 2025, 05:17:54 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address. We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or signup NOW!

Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
66
Marquette
Scrimmage
Date/Time: Oct 4, 2025
TV: NA
Schedule for 2024-25
New Mexico
75

Benny B

I don't care whose side you want to take on the matter, the Trib piece is full of slant, posturing, and complete BS.  This isn't to say that it's entirely false, but the only conclusion that can be drawn based upon this article is that it's clearly being driven by a plaintiff's attorney and a lawsuit should be coming very soon.
Quote from: LittleMurs on January 08, 2015, 07:10:33 PM
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

Pakuni

Quote from: MUMac on June 22, 2011, 07:41:29 AM
The comments of many on this thread are truly embarrassing.  I thought we had adults who were educated that posted here, but I guess not.

Did MU handle this poorly?  He!! yes, they admitted so and should be admonished for it.  To learn this has been their policy for 10 years is frightenning.  

As for the girl's story, get a grip people.  We have one side of the story.  I will go out on a limb here and speculate that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE that has commented in this thread knows the true facts.  Yet, so many have leapt to conclussions.

It is unwise, and frankly dangerous, to blame either the girl or athlete.  Conjecture is dangerous and that is all I have read here. After hearing both sides, the DA decided not to press charges.  I suspect the other side of the story may have played in that decision.  Now, does that mean nothing happenned?  No.  But to lay guilt at the feet of the athlete, as many have, or the girl, as others have, is irresponsible.  Especially on a one sided story.


Thanks for bringing some sanity to he thread.

StillAWarrior

Quote from: Rubie Q on June 22, 2011, 10:24:48 AM
He did make a statement to that effect, which reeked of grandstanding at the time and looks even worse now, in my opinion, because of the evidence that the Tribune says was collected during the investigation.  The DA had a medical report and multiple statements from the woman, which he said had been consistent throughout. And yet he didn't file charges.

Like I said: I have no problem with the University being criticized here (for not following the law, etc), but I don't think it's fair to pin the lack-of-prosecution on Marquette.

I'm not saying that the decision to not prosecute is entirely Marquette's fault.  I honestly don't know.  But when it came time to make the decision, it appears that all they had was  "a medical report and multiple statements from the woman."  That's really not a lot to go on, especially in light if the fact that the accuser admitted that she went there to have consensual sex, and began doing so, but later changed her mind.  Would you agree that it's at least possible that a prompt investigation might have come up with additional evidence that a crime was committed?  Or, perhaps, that no crime was committed?

As I said in an earlier post, Marquette's failure to report this is also unfair to the accused athlete.  A prompt and thorough investigation might have cleared him.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

GGGG

Quote from: tower912 on June 22, 2011, 09:53:54 AM
I know what my initial reaction was when I read the young woman's account.     I know I can be an insensitive jerk, so I decided to solicit the opinion of some of the women in my life. I have since chatted about this with my wife, a trusted female co-worker, and my 16 year old daughter, without expressing my opinion.     Of that small sample size, none consider this a crime.    


Well, it actually IS a crime if her story is true.  So the women in your life are wrong.

Not to mention, people who are taking either side continue to miss the point.  MU violated state law.  A law that they should have known about.  And it makes the University look bad, because even if nothing happened, it makes it *look* like a cover up.  Almost exactly like the ND case in that regard.

Henry Sugar

Also, when searching for the article online, I noticed that this is just part of a broader reporting arc at the Tribune.

An article talking about this issue across the midwest from June 16
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/education/ct-met-campus-sexual-assaults-0617-20110616,0,769086,full.story

Follow up on how the reporters worked the story
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/tribnation/chi-how-we-reported-on-campus-sexual-assaults-20110617,0,4560837.story
A warrior is an empowered and compassionate protector of others.

Clam Crowder

Quote from: Benny B on June 22, 2011, 10:24:59 AM
I don't care whose side you want to take on the matter, the Trib piece is full of slant, posturing, and complete BS.  This isn't to say that it's entirely false, but the only conclusion that can be drawn based upon this article is that it's clearly being driven by a plaintiff's attorney and a lawsuit should be coming very soon.

I highly doubt that Marquette did not cover its bases enough to have a solid case ready if and when this becomes a lawsuit. I am sure one of their primary arguments will be that the police could have easily been contacted by this girl...it has yet to be addressed by her why she did not do this. She also says absolutely nothing that implies MU told her to not go to the police.

I keep seeing people here talking about the reporting and violation of state law by Marquette, and once again I just want to point out that for 10 years this went unnoticed, and then an athlete(s) were accused and it becomes an issue. I highly doubt the police were ignorant to this. I wont address how I feel about the players, or the accuser. I will say that it is baffling that for 10 years this went unnoticed, and that even though we did this for 10 years the D.A has addressed no punishment. I think that that fact says alot.

mu03eng

The way I see it, there is no way you can void MU of some sort of error on this issue.  I'm not a lawyer nor have I played one on tv, but I do know stop means stop, and if you don't that is a crime.  So based on that, the university has a duty to report that alleged crime as reported to them to MPD.  They failed to do so in this case which is illegal.  Does anyone dispute that contention?  I am in no way basing anything on the merit's of the woman's case, merely what MU has acknowledge as fact, that points to a stunning lack of common sense and sensitivity.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

Pakuni

Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 22, 2011, 10:35:58 AM
I'm not saying that the decision to not prosecute is entirely Marquette's fault.  I honestly don't know.  But when it came time to make the decision, it appears that all they had was  "a medical report and multiple statements from the woman."  That's really not a lot to go on, especially in light if the fact that the accuser admitted that she went there to have consensual sex, and began doing so, but later changed her mind.  Would you agree that it's at least possible that a prompt investigation might have come up with additional evidence that a crime was committed?  Or, perhaps, that no crime was committed?

It's possible, but in this case extremely unlikely.
The only circumstance I can imagine in which it may have made a difference is if investigators had been able to speak with the accused sooner and he were to confess to some criminal act in the heat of the moment, as opposed to when they finally spoke with him and he obviously did not make any admissions.
With both sides stating there was consensual sex, at least initially, any physical evidence obtained right away wouldn't have been probative. It merely would have proved whether sex occurred, which both parties already agree was the case.

This isn't to defend MU's wrongdoing here ... just pointing out that it almost certainly didn't make a difference in whether there was a prosecution in this particular case.

QuoteAs I said in an earlier post, Marquette's failure to report this is also unfair to the accused athlete.  A prompt and thorough investigation might have cleared him.

Again, probably not. Unless the parties' versions would have been different two months earlier, the timing is mostly irrelevant.
Again, not defending MU, just pointing out that their poor decisions didn't make a difference here.


tower912

I will tell my wife, the legal secretary, that she needs to do a better job of understanding the law. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

bilsu

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 22, 2011, 09:52:51 AM
If you want to do legal definitions, OJ was acquitted, not found not guilty.
I am not a lawyer. However, every show or movie I watch where there is a trail, the jury either finds the defendent guilty or not guilty.

GGGG

Being a legal secretary doesn't mean you understand criminal law.  

Pakuni

Quote from: bilsu on June 22, 2011, 11:09:54 AM
I am not a lawyer. However, every show or movie I watch where there is a trail, the jury either finds the defendent guilty or not guilty.

Yes, jury verdicts are guilty or not guilty.
An acquittal is the legal certification of that verdict, just as a conviction is the certification of a guilty verdict.

tower912

#87
True.    But other than my wife's taste in men, I trust her judgement.    And the crux of my point is this, if things happened EXACTLY as the young lady claims, it would be exceedingly difficult to get a conviction.   I'm not saying the guy didn't behave badly, I will even go so far as to admit that in my youth I was able to stop in the middle when asked, so I know it is possible.   But it would be extremely difficult to get a conviction and even IF the university had handled it as they should have and even IF MPD was in it from the beginning, I would be stunned if charges were even brought.   But of course, since that didn't happen, we will never know.    
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

bilsu

Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on June 22, 2011, 10:01:24 AM
Thoughts:

- I'm not surprised the University has flouted rules for the last 10 years. I'm surprised they went so public with that knowledge in this story.

Looks bad, but It looks better than letting people think it was just this year to protect an athelete.





- Finally, on the 27th of February the Warriors dismantled PC. Any thoughts whether the player (if basketball) was on a high and played well or on a down and played poorly?
Providence was an afternoon game and problably before the situation. MU lost to Cincy and Seton hall after that and got back on track after Buzz held a close door meeting after the Seton hall loss. Therefore, I think it did have an effect on the team.

MUMBA

Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 22, 2011, 10:04:38 AM
I have no idea whether a "Marquette athlete" raped this girl, and I'm not going to assume either way.  The allegation is troubling, but that's it.  What I do know, however, is that Marquette's illegal failure to report the allegation may have precluded an appropriate investigation.  And that pisses me off.  When there is a cover up (or the appearance of one), even if not by the accused, a lot of people are going to assume the worst (or "jump off the deep end" as you call it).  Marquette's failure in this regard isn't fair to the accuser or to the accused.

Well said.  Thanks for splicing through the all of the complexities we've contemplated in this thread (legal, race, bias in media, school loyalty, etc) and re-framing this debacle in simple terms.  The he said/she said debate is futile at this point.  As is the debate over legal distinctions.  The facts are too obsured.  

I agree with StillAWarrior in that I am upset with Marquette for their part in the mess.  My critique of Marquette in this case doesn't mean I love the school any less.  Tough love is love just the same.  

ChicosBailBonds

Quote from: KC2016 on June 21, 2011, 10:46:15 PM
This is a little over the top.

You think getting put on the front page of the Chicago Tribune (one of the largest papers in the country and a place where we recruit a large number of students to our university) for our lack of action for 10 years isn't Blowing It Big Time?  Not just front page, but headline banner story.  Makes you wonder what the crack staff at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel is doing.



mu03eng

Quote from: tower912 on June 22, 2011, 11:21:13 AM
True.    But other than my wife's taste in men, I trust her judgement.    And the crux of my point is this, if things happened EXACTLY as the young lady claims, it would be exceedingly difficult to get a conviction.   I'm not saying the guy didn't behave badly, I will even go so far as to admit that in my youth I was able to stop in the middle when asked, so I know it is possible.   But it would be extremely difficult to get a conviction and even IF the university had handled it as they should have and even IF MPD was in it from the beginning, I would be stunned if charges were even brought.   But of course, since that didn't happen, we will never know.    

Tower that is ultimately my disappointment with MU, they prevented that from happening which leads to the rampant conjecture which prevents both the woman and the athlete from seeing true justice and in combination with everything else paints MU in a bad light.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

ChicosBailBonds

Quote from: Benny B on June 22, 2011, 10:24:59 AM
I don't care whose side you want to take on the matter, the Trib piece is full of slant, posturing, and complete BS.  This isn't to say that it's entirely false, but the only conclusion that can be drawn based upon this article is that it's clearly being driven by a plaintiff's attorney and a lawsuit should be coming very soon.

A lawsuit for what?  Exactly what leg does any legal challenge have to stand on in this case?  NONE.  It would get thrown out of court so fast it would make your head spin.  The university has ADMITTED screwing up for 10 years and not being in compliance with STATE LAW.  If there is a lawsuit, it should be against the university.

tower912

Chico, Duke LaCrosse survived, even before the charges were dismissed.   Syracuse survived Devendorf and Fab Melo.  UNLV survived Tark.   MU survived Pops Sims, the Copa car accident, Mortenson, James Matthews etc. As long as the players weren't trading signed MU paraphernalia for tats, pot, cars, women, booze, MU will survive this, too.     
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

2TimeWarrior

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 22, 2011, 11:36:11 AM
A lawsuit for what?  Exactly what leg does any legal challenge have to stand on in this case?  NONE.  It would get thrown out of court so fast it would make your head spin.  The university has ADMITTED screwing up for 10 years and not being in compliance with STATE LAW.  If there is a lawsuit, it should be against the university.
I think that was his point, hence the "plaintiff's attorney" language.


Rubie Q

Quote from: Pakuni on June 22, 2011, 11:01:52 AM
It's possible, but in this case extremely unlikely.
The only circumstance I can imagine in which it may have made a difference is if investigators had been able to speak with the accused sooner and he were to confess to some criminal act in the heat of the moment, as opposed to when they finally spoke with him and he obviously did not make any admissions.
With both sides stating there was consensual sex, at least initially, any physical evidence obtained right away wouldn't have been probative. It merely would have proved whether sex occurred, which both parties already agree was the case.

This isn't to defend MU's wrongdoing here ... just pointing out that it almost certainly didn't make a difference in whether there was a prosecution in this particular case.

I agree with Pakuni. In terms of evidence in an alleged sexual assault case, the medical examination plus statements from both of the parties involved is about as much as you can ask for.  The delay in the reporting of the allegation didn't hinder the DA's ability to issue charges.

Pakuni

Other than the additional notoriety of the Trib story, there's nothing new here.
We've known for weeks that MU had a bad policy that did not adhere to state law. Many of us have already said this repeatedly over the past several weeks. The university has admitted to this and changed its procedures for the better.

Also, though some will surely try to make it so to further their personal agendas, this is a Marquette University issue, not a Marquette basketball/athletics issue. The student-athlete's involvement is practically irrelevant, though it's safe to say this issue wouldn't be getting nearly as much attention if this involved a regular student.

Tom Crean's Tanning Bed

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 22, 2011, 11:31:33 AM
You think getting put on the front page of the Chicago Tribune (one of the largest papers in the country and a place where we recruit a large number of students to our university) for our lack of action for 10 years isn't Blowing It Big Time?  Not just front page, but headline banner story.  Makes you wonder what the crack staff at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel is doing.



Chicos, the lead reporter on this story is Ryan Haggarty, a former Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reporter that joined the Tribune in February or March I believe.  I'm sure he knew from his experience with the MJS that they won't report anything unless it falls in their laps and used all his contacts in Milwaukee to build this report.
The General has taken on a new command.

StillAWarrior

Quote from: Pakuni on June 22, 2011, 11:01:52 AM
It's possible, but in this case extremely unlikely.
The only circumstance I can imagine in which it may have made a difference is if investigators had been able to speak with the accused sooner and he were to confess to some criminal act in the heat of the moment, as opposed to when they finally spoke with him and he obviously did not make any admissions.
With both sides stating there was consensual sex, at least initially, any physical evidence obtained right away wouldn't have been probative. It merely would have proved whether sex occurred, which both parties already agree was the case.

This isn't to defend MU's wrongdoing here ... just pointing out that it almost certainly didn't make a difference in whether there was a prosecution in this particular case.

How about inspecting the apartment?  Any sign of a struggle?  How about talking to neighbors?  Did you hear/see anything?  What was her demeanor when she left?  Etc.  Those are all things that a month later might be pretty hard to get at.  This is particularly true in light of the fact that there had been a previous relationship.  A month later you might not remember any specifics from any particular night ("yeah, I saw her there a few times, but I don't specifically remember the night in question" versus, "yeah, I saw her last night when she left...she didn't seem upset at all and kissed him goodbye outside the door.")  Incidentally, those are also things that might well have exonerated the athlete.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

Previous topic - Next topic