Futbol Talk

[JWags85]

I was thinking about this too. On the other hand, I do think it's infinitely better in it's current state than it was a few years ago. In a few years I'm hopeful we'll get to the point where it's pretty seamless and useful like it is in tennis.

I think its gotten better due to technology being more precise, but the issue that makes it unwatchable, and I don't think can be fixed without specific rule changes around it, is the "judgement call" aspect.  Offsides reviews could be seamless and useful quickly.  But when they allow either the ref or the video assistant to track back as far as they deem relevant, it gets cumbersome and stupid.

I watched a random match on Peacock in December, can't recall which.  Counter attack, really nice passing, great goal.  VAR pops up.  Commentators couldn't figure out why, all attackers were aside by a mile, acres of space on the attack with no challenges.  Turns out there was a "foul" on the change of possession, but not just on the change...the LB tackled an attacker, ball went to another attacking midfielder, who moved to the center for a dribble or two and then got stripped, which ignited the counter attack.  But that LB tackle, that the ref didn't even look twice at, was suddenly deemed beyond the pale in super slow-mo ruling out a goal almost a minute later. 

[Pakuni]

I think its gotten better due to technology being more precise, but the issue that makes it unwatchable, and I don't think can be fixed without specific rule changes around it, is the "judgement call" aspect.  Offsides reviews could be seamless and useful quickly.  But when they allow either the ref or the video assistant to track back as far as they deem relevant, it gets cumbersome and stupid.

I watched a random match on Peacock in December, can't recall which.  Counter attack, really nice passing, great goal.  VAR pops up.  Commentators couldn't figure out why, all attackers were aside by a mile, acres of space on the attack with no challenges.  Turns out there was a "foul" on the change of possession, but not just on the change...the LB tackled an attacker, ball went to another attacking midfielder, who moved to the center for a dribble or two and then got stripped, which ignited the counter attack.  But that LB tackle, that the ref didn't even look twice at, was suddenly deemed beyond the pale in super slow-mo ruling out a goal almost a minute later. 

Yep.
It's akin to overturning a touchdown because an offensive tackle got away with holding five players earlier on the drive.

[Its DJOver]

Was known to be coming but the HEX is officially dead. 

New format looks stupid too, you can qualify without even playing Mexico or Canada. Have to finish top 2 in a 4 team group made up of (in theory) the top 24 teams from CONCACAF to make it to the final stage where you again have to finish top 2 in a 4 team group made up of (in theory) the top 12 teams from CONCACAF.

[Its DJOver]

Who do Spurs even target?

[Pakuni]

Who do Spurs even target?

Roberto De Zerbi parted ways with Marseilles today. Probably not a coincidence.

[JWags85]

Roberto De Zerbi parted ways with Marseilles today. Probably not a coincidence.

Bingo.  Cause you don't sack a manager who finished 2nd last year and currently sits in 4th just because the Champions League performance was disappointing...at a club that hasn't reached the knockout stage in 15 years.

Be interesting to see Thomas Frank's progression from here.  I don't recall his salary at Brentford, but I'm sure the $8MM he was getting from Spurs was at least triple what he was making.  So that, plus the payout he'll now get makes it worth it always.

Reputationally, he should be fine, as top level football manager roles are very mercurial and its totally a fit thing.  But you'd hope he doesn't go the way of Graham Potter whose career imploded after he failed at Chelsea (great at Brighton, bad at Chelsea, terrible at West Ham, not good now for Sweden) or even more apt, the complete derailing of Big Ange's career.

[JWags85]

In today's edition of Champions League VAR losing the spirit of the game, Olympiakos scores a beautiful free kick goal via a flicked header.  But wait, VAR can't let that stand.  They determine another while another Olympiakos attacker ducked out of the way, the ball brushed his shirt, super slow mo replay shows it flutter...NO GOAL!! Thanks VAR for improving the game!

[The Sultan]

In today's edition of Champions League VAR losing the spirit of the game, Olympiakos scores a beautiful free kick goal via a flicked header.  But wait, VAR can't let that stand.  They determine another while another Olympiakos attacker ducked out of the way, the ball brushed his shirt, super slow mo replay shows it flutter...NO GOAL!! Thanks VAR for improving the game!

So what's the alternative? You either have no VAR, which isn't great, or you disallow VAR to review certain things that can be clearly seen on replay.

[Its DJOver]

Yea, VAR has it's flaws, but that was a pretty easy call. One replay, even at full speed and you can see the touch from an offsides position. Just look at the sh!t show the FA cup was last weekend without VAR, or how VAR couldn't intervene to save Kalulu against Inter last weekend. 

[BM1090]

Yeah, I'm good with this intervention. It's the ones where they go back in play to 30-60 seconds before the goal to find an off-ball foul in the buildup that have to go.

[The Sultan]

Yeah, I'm good with this intervention. It's the ones where they go back in play to 30-60 seconds before the goal to find an off-ball foul in the buildup that have to go.

Yeah, I can agree with that as well. I think the fuzzy "in the build up" is something that can we can do without.

[JWags85]

So what's the alternative? You either have no VAR, which isn't great, or you disallow VAR to review certain things that can be clearly seen on replay.

I'm all for direct VAR intervention...goal scorer offsides, handballs/fouls in the box, etc...  Obviously the review of fouls in build up is stupid and egregious, but I think the scrutinizing every aspect of the goal scoring moment, including teammate involvements, can be a bit much.

Yea, VAR has it's flaws, but that was a pretty easy call. One replay, even at full speed and you can see the touch from an offsides position. Just look at the sh!t show the FA cup was last weekend without VAR, or how VAR couldn't intervene to save Kalulu against Inter last weekend. 

That's sort of what I meant with this incident.  I mean, to be fair, my issue with the Olympiakos call is more that I HATE that particular application of offsides.  If its called in the moment, fine, but going back to review an minute unintentional touching by a non-scoring player, I just don't care for it.  It wasn't called in the moment initially by the referee or the linesman

It's like a glancing handball in the box by a defender, arms basically at their side.  Nothing thought of it. Then its reviewed and they microanalyze how far their arm was from their side and determine "natural arm position" in a subjective manner.  Is it technically the correct call?  Sure, but its just over legislating the game with VAR.

[Its DJOver]

That Champions League Draw certainly is something.  The winners of the competition the last 10 years all on one side.  At least we didn't get any domestic repeats, a Bayern v Bayer or Newcastle v Chelsea would have been boring.

[JWags85]

That Champions League Draw certainly is something.  The winners of the competition the last 10 years all on one side.  At least we didn't get any domestic repeats, a Bayern v Bayer or Newcastle v Chelsea would have been boring.

Yea its wild.  But agreed its some decent stuff.  But as an Arsenal hater, more their insufferable fanbase more than anything (I also have the misfortune of knowing a bunch of Indian/SE Asian/American Arsenal fans, most of whom weren't even aware of Arsenal around the time of the Invincibles, yet have this bizarre arrogance), I'm sick at their cakewalk to the semis.

[Hards Alumni]

Crazy to be an Arsenal hater since they haven't won the EPL in over 20 years.

Unless you're a Spurs fan, to which I have to just laugh at your continued misfortune.

[Billy Hoyle]

who isn't a superfan of Bodo/Glimt the rest of the way? A fan base that carries giant yellow toothbrushes to matches deserves worldwide support

[Its DJOver]

Yea its wild.  But agreed its some decent stuff.  But as an Arsenal hater, more their insufferable fanbase more than anything (I also have the misfortune of knowing a bunch of Indian/SE Asian/American Arsenal fans, most of whom weren't even aware of Arsenal around the time of the Invincibles, yet have this bizarre arrogance), I'm sick at their cakewalk to the semis.

This so much.  You have to be a special kind of arrogant to get the rest of the league to collectively root for City.

[JWags85]

Crazy to be an Arsenal hater since they haven't won the EPL in over 20 years.

Unless you're a Spurs fan, to which I have to just laugh at your continued misfortune.

I'm not an Arsenal hater nor am I a Spurs fan.  Have little to no animosity for the club itself.  But the collective arrogance of the Gooner faithful, who haven't won a EPL in 20 years or a modern European cup ever, is easily hateable.  Easily the most hateable EPL fan collective on social media and one that I've found matched in person.  Its just wild.

And Spurs may have continued misfortune but they have as many EPL titles in the last 20 years as Arsenal but they won a Europa Cup and got a Champions League runner up in that time, neither of which Arsenal have.  But I'm aware that apparently Arsenal supporters weight FA Cup titles more than any of those things.

[Hards Alumni]

I'm not an Arsenal hater nor am I a Spurs fan.  Have little to no animosity for the club itself.  But the collective arrogance of the Gooner faithful, who haven't won a EPL in 20 years or a modern European cup ever, is easily hateable.  Easily the most hateable EPL fan collective on social media and one that I've found matched in person.  Its just wild.

And Spurs may have continued misfortune but they have as many EPL titles in the last 20 years as Arsenal but they won a Europa Cup and got a Champions League runner up in that time, neither of which Arsenal have.  But I'm aware that apparently Arsenal supporters weight FA Cup titles more than any of those things.

Wait until you meet some Eagles fans.

[Its DJOver]

The amount of times I've heard "They'd trade all their Premier League and Champions League trophies for a gold one" is sickening. Great team, great year, but I could also name half a dozen Premier League era teams that were better.

[JWags85]

The amount of times I've heard "They'd trade all their Premier League and Champions League trophies for a gold one" is sickening. Great team, great year, but I could also name half a dozen Premier League era teams that were better.

My wife isn't a football fan at all.  All she really knows of the EPL is whatever Ive shared about Liverpool and the Liverpool shop which she's well acquainted with for both me and my son.  But even she can't stand Arsenal supporters after our London trips.  First trip to London, we went to Selhurst Park for Liverpool/Palace.  Late afternoon match, went to a pub on the way down, I think in Brixton, to watch earlier matches.  Chatting with the mix of people in the pub, people were super cool, had great banter with Palace fans who thought it was awesome her first match would be at Selhurst, "real proper ground". 

Yet there was a group of Arsenal supporters who kept calling me a plastic and insisting all American fans were glory hunters and jokes.  Some middle aged dude in a skin tight late 90s JVC kit kept trying to quiz me on mid 80s Liverpool players and proving I wasn't an actual fan like I was pretending to be a Scouser.  We were laughing about what douches they were later at the match with Palace supporters during the joking around after when we scolded by stewards for having Liverpool scarves in the Palace home section.

2 years later, walking around Camden, found really cool coasters from aged concrete that were painted with the road signs from the big grounds around the country.  Grabbed the Anfield Road one and an employee from the neighboring booth started crowing about what c**ts Liverpool supporters are and the only reason "my friend here" sells those is cause Yank Reds are easy marks.  Checking out, the booth owner apologized, said his mate is a bitter Arsenal supporter, and chatted with me for 4-5 min about the 98 World Cup and Michael Owen (the reason a 13 year old JWags became a Liverpool fan).

So yea, no love lost for the Gooner faithful in my household.  So much so that a new coworker joined her team in NYC who was from London and she found out he was an Arsenal fan (literally grew up in Islington and Finsbury Park) she cringed.  But he's actually a great guy and found the stories to be hilarious and got my son a Liverpool jibbit for his crocs for his birthday this year.   Obviously plenty of great Arsenal fans but its a reputation that isn't built off a random outlier or two.

[JWags85]

who isn't a superfan of Bodo/Glimt the rest of the way? A fan base that carries giant yellow toothbrushes to matches deserves worldwide support

The more you read into Bodo/Glimt, the more absolutely astounding it is.  The Eliteserien isn't great (top 15 league at best, but historically more around the 20th best league in Europe), but even lesser leagues have a great team that supercedes historically (Celtic in Scotland, Shaktar in Ukraine, Crvena Zvezda in Serbia, etc...) but Bodo isn't historically good in Norway, that would be Rosenborg or Molde. Bodo had been bouncing around for awhile between the top flight and 1st division in Norway when they got promoted again in 2018, hadn't finished better than 10th in the Eliteserien for 15 years.  Then a year after promotion they finish second, then 2 years after promotion they win a title and win 4 of the next 5 (finishing second the 1 year they didn't win).  Last year they finished 2nd by a point largely due to balancing a deep CL/EL schedule with the domestic slate.

Add to that they are in Bodo, an 8 hour drive from any decent sized city, so far north they HAVE to play on turf, and due to the Norwegian season playing from March to November, they've played their last 3 group games, even before the knockouts against Inter, in the offseason with no meaningful games to keep them sharp. 

And unlike someone like Celtic or Shaktar who are filled with foreign mercenaries, their roster is 80% Norwegian (most of the rest are Danish  ) with a Norwegian manager.  And not just Norwegian, they aren't even stacked with Norwegian capped nationals.  Their captain, Berg, is a mainstay in the midfield for the national team, but they only have 1 other defender with a decent amount of regular caps and another midfielder who got a cluster of caps when he was playing for AC Milan and Frankfurt, but only has 2 recently.  So its really just a true team of homegrown guys knocking down giants against literally every disadvantage comparatively.  The performance at home against Inter was awesome, but then they went to San Siro and didn't just camp and hold on for dear life, they settled in during the first half and then came out and immediately punched Inter in the mouth to set the tone in the second half.  Now they have a VERY winnable matchup against a surprising Sporting