Futbol Talk

[brewcity77]

Possession is uncorrelated with results. It is mostly an indicator of style.

Despite losing on overall shots, the US put 83% of their shots on target, as opposed to 33% for Honduras. And they finished 40% of their shots, compared to 33% for Honduras. 

(I've been playing around with soccer analytics lately)

Meaningful possession I'd have to imagine is, however. Those numbers weren't just Honduras sitting back, it was then coming forward and creating chances in our half. They flat out took the game to us in the opening 30, yet somehow we had a 1-0 lead. I agree of the possession is holding the ball for the sake of holding it. That wasn't what we saw last night, though.

As far as Howard, he's taking a year away from the national team.

[mu03eng]

I think it was a middling performance, but I do think there were things to like, just not quite as many as not to like

Like
-Didn't think it would but Yedlin at right wing was very positive, made a lot of great runs and had a lot of great pace.  You could tell he's a converted back though because he didn't have quite the killer instinct in the area you'd want but that will come with time.
-Gyasi will be a very good player and I thought he tracked back really well defensively.  I wonder if he isn't an eventual replacement for Beckerman and let Mix play the left side winger
-Bradley and Dempsey continue to be a great combination going forward.
-Brooks looks like he is there to stay as center back and I think that's great
-Fabian Johnson should be the starting LB for quite a while

Didn't Like
-They have got to find someone to pair with Dempsey up front.  Altidore is just not the answer and I saw that as someone who was a huge fan. Wondo definitely isn't the answer either.
-Chandler is just not the RB of choice.  If Yedlin continues to be the answer at right wing, we're going to have to figure something else out
-Guzan has got to get his back line organized, far too many mistakes from them(I know its a new center back pairing but thats not an excuse).  Honduras had all(or mostly all) of their opportunities because of US mistakes
-Beckerman, and I'm a fan, is just not going to get it done as DCM, need to find a different answer there
-The whole team looked 2 steps behind on the 50/50 balls.  IMHO, we should never get out hustled or out paced.  Possession isn't a big deal for me but losing 50/50 balls drives me nuts.

We'll see how the next couple of games go

[GGGG]

Didn't Like
-They have got to find someone to pair with Dempsey up front.  Altidore is just not the answer and I saw that as someone who was a huge fan. Wondo definitely isn't the answer either.

Aron Johannsson?

[JWags85]

The lead official allowing Honduras to get away with their classic brutal, hack a leg defensive style allowed a couple of their dangerous runs.  I forgot how much I disliked that national team.  They have some quality individual talent, but I hate watching them constantly chop other teams down.  Multiple times near center field a US player was clearly fouled, the ref swallowed his whistle and they sprinted down the other way.  Hell,  Najar's strong run and dangerous shot in the first was capped off by him two-handed shoving Yedlin into the ground.

Fabian Johnson is fantastic.  He was in the WC, and he's continued.  His overlapping runs are fantastic and he's confident with the ball.  Really liked Brooks as well.

Chandler was active...and then you realized its cause he was out of position and spraying balls all over the place.

Altidore was...Altidore.  I mean, I'm glad it turned out favorably cause Deuce and his head were well positioned, but Altidore's shot that caused the rebound was pretty damn pedestrian.

Also wondering why we don't see Johansson more...

But 3 pts is 3 pts

[mu03eng]

Aron Johannsson?

That is my hope right now....despite his torrid start, I don't think its Jordan Morris

[brewcity77]

I would like Zardes up top with Clint. The guy just isn't a winger. His best moves are the close possession moves, the kind that get you past the last man and into position to score. He was such a non factor going forward until the late chance he created when he drove into the box and laid off a cut back pass. It was the same type of play that he created a goal against Guatemala with. It's also a play that is far more effective for a striker who is playing centrally in the box than a wing player. Zardes makes us worse on the wing (would rather Bedoya) and can't play to his own strengths out there.

[jesmu84]

I think it was a middling performance, but I do think there were things to like, just not quite as many as not to like

Like
-Didn't think it would but Yedlin at right wing was very positive, made a lot of great runs and had a lot of great pace.  You could tell he's a converted back though because he didn't have quite the killer instinct in the area you'd want but that will come with time.
-Gyasi will be a very good player and I thought he tracked back really well defensively.  I wonder if he isn't an eventual replacement for Beckerman and let Mix play the left side winger
-Bradley and Dempsey continue to be a great combination going forward.
-Brooks looks like he is there to stay as center back and I think that's great
-Fabian Johnson should be the starting LB for quite a while

Didn't Like
-They have got to find someone to pair with Dempsey up front.  Altidore is just not the answer and I saw that as someone who was a huge fan. Wondo definitely isn't the answer either.
-Chandler is just not the RB of choice.  If Yedlin continues to be the answer at right wing, we're going to have to figure something else out
-Guzan has got to get his back line organized, far too many mistakes from them(I know its a new center back pairing but thats not an excuse).  Honduras had all(or mostly all) of their opportunities because of US mistakes
-Beckerman, and I'm a fan, is just not going to get it done as DCM, need to find a different answer there
-The whole team looked 2 steps behind on the 50/50 balls.  IMHO, we should never get out hustled or out paced.  Possession isn't a big deal for me but losing 50/50 balls drives me nuts.

We'll see how the next couple of games go

Beckerman is one of the best technical players in the US pool. If not for age, he'd be in a top European league.

Gyasi is a forward, not a winger or CM.

The problem with Fabian is that he's our best option at LB, RB and LM. And he probably is most effective at LM, personally. So lots to think about there.

Yedlin has been playing wing over seas, so hoping that helps his development.

I have no clue why aron doesn't play more.

It amazes me how we can play with the likes of Italy, Netherlands, Germany and then struggle to put away Honduras.

[MUfan12]

It amazes me how we can play with the likes of Italy, Netherlands, Germany and then struggle to put away Honduras.

Like I said earlier, I don't think this team is built for the cynical, cagey play that comes with CONCACAF. Some of those late, high challenges had them pulling out of tackles, like mu03eng mentioned.

[brewcity77]

Here's my thoughts by position:

Goalkeeper: We're okay here. Howard is still good, and Guzan is a great deputy. Lots of young names coming through to watch.

Right back: Chandler is terrible. The problem is we need the best option (Johnson) on the left where our other options are even worse, and Yedlin is clearly being groomed for a more offensive role. Honestly, I'd rather see them just keep Yedlin back. Chandler is a poor defender and not strong enough. Couldn't stay with Najar to save his life. Evans is also better. Wouldn't mind Cameron in that role either, though he's aging.

Center backs: Brooks looks like the bedrock of our defense for the next decade. After him, lots of questions. Alvarado is making a lot of mistakes. Maybe that will improve with time. Ream and Gonzalez also have issues. Could use Besler back in there. Probably my first choice to pair with Brooks right now. Either that or start blooding some young kids.

Left back: Johnson is clearly first choice. Beasley is ancient, Garza is okay but not great, Shea is a work in progress. One of the few positions that seems locked down.

Defensive mids: Where is Danny Williams? He is our best defensive mid. Better than Beckerman, who has declined massively in the past 12 months. Well, actually this should be Bradley's position, but JK is set on him being the #10. Like to see more of Kitchen, Trapp, and Hyndmann to see if any are worth a ticket to Russia in 2018.

Right mid: So...Yedlin then Zusi, I guess. Yedlin is our best weapon currently being deployed on the wing. I'd like to see him at the back, but then who takes that spot? Zusi I've never really liked, though at least he tracks back well. Need to see more options there.

Central/Attacking mids: Bradley is miscast here. Diskerud is a better choice, yet more often he's playing in front of the defense. Who else could play here? Nguyen? Corona? JK never wants to give anyone else a chance.

Left mid: Zardes is terrible over there. Horribly misused. Bedoya should start. Johnson is next best. Need to see more options.

Forwards: Personally, I think Dempsey and Zardes should start. Altidore just doesn't impress. He has a couple good moments per game but that's it. He's not a constant threat. Johannsson deserves a spot on the bench as well with Altidore. Wondo I'm ready to see the back of. With youngsters like Green, Wood, Morris, and Rubin, I'd rather see someone that had some pace for the late sub than a guy who's just kind of there.

[WarriorInNYC]

Defensive mids: Where is Danny Williams? He is our best defensive mid. Better than Beckerman, who has declined massively in the past 12 months. Well, actually this should be Bradley's position, but JK is set on him being the #10. Like to see more of Kitchen, Trapp, and Hyndmann to see if any are worth a ticket to Russia in 2018.

Right mid: So...Yedlin then Zusi, I guess. Yedlin is our best weapon currently being deployed on the wing. I'd like to see him at the back, but then who takes that spot? Zusi I've never really liked, though at least he tracks back well. Need to see more options there.

Central/Attacking mids: Bradley is miscast here. Diskerud is a better choice, yet more often he's playing in front of the defense. Who else could play here? Nguyen? Corona? JK never wants to give anyone else a chance.

Left mid: Zardes is terrible over there. Horribly misused. Bedoya should start. Johnson is next best. Need to see more options.

You mention Mix as an attacking mid here, but I think he has a bit more flexibility than just this role.  See the Guatemala game for example.  He's been playing alot on the right of the diamond at NYCFC and will continue to see minutes there as the season rolls on.  He may also be an option at LM, though haven't seen him play much out there.

[jesmu84]

Rebuttle:

Here's my thoughts by position:

Goalkeeper: We're okay here. Howard is still good, and Guzan is a great deputy. Lots of young names coming through to watch.

Agree

Right back: Chandler is terrible. The problem is we need the best option (Johnson) on the left where our other options are even worse, and Yedlin is clearly being groomed for a more offensive role. Honestly, I'd rather see them just keep Yedlin back. Chandler is a poor defender and not strong enough. Couldn't stay with Najar to save his life. Evans is also better. Wouldn't mind Cameron in that role either, though he's aging.

I think Yedlin is best used as a winger. He'll play there in Europe, which I think will help develop those skills more. I'm not sure who will play RB though for 2018. Chandler is the most likely. The other option is to play Fabian here as he and Yedlin would make a dynamic right side with both able to play back and attack.

Center backs: Brooks looks like the bedrock of our defense for the next decade. After him, lots of questions. Alvarado is making a lot of mistakes. Maybe that will improve with time. Ream and Gonzalez also have issues. Could use Besler back in there. Probably my first choice to pair with Brooks right now. Either that or start blooding some young kids.

I think there's a lot of youth here to be explored before 2018. As of now, Gonzalez, Brooks, Besler are the top 3. Gonzalez seems to still be recovering a bit from injury. Alvardo is a distant 4.

Left back: Johnson is clearly first choice. Beasley is ancient, Garza is okay but not great, Shea is a work in progress. One of the few positions that seems locked down.

I prefer Fabian at RB. So, who at Left? Good question. Garza seems to be #1 with FJ on the right. Shea is a work in progress, but it seems like Orlando has given up on him here. Youth or Garza for 2018.

Note: I actually prefer the US in a 4-3-3 for 2018. But i'll address your formation. If a 4-3-3, the middle 3 would be Mix - Bradley - Yedlin, the front 3 would be some combo of Gyasi/Wood/Morris/Bedoya/Dempsey/Altidore/Aron/Green

Defensive mids: Where is Danny Williams? He is our best defensive mid. Better than Beckerman, who has declined massively in the past 12 months. Well, actually this should be Bradley's position, but JK is set on him being the #10. Like to see more of Kitchen, Trapp, and Hyndmann to see if any are worth a ticket to Russia in 2018.

Danny Williams would be my pick here. Slowly work in Trapp or Hyndmann. Beckerman has seen better days and I think Kitchen has maxed out.

Right mid: So...Yedlin then Zusi, I guess. Yedlin is our best weapon currently being deployed on the wing. I'd like to see him at the back, but then who takes that spot? Zusi I've never really liked, though at least he tracks back well. Need to see more options there.

Yedlin here. Could also use Green

Central/Attacking mids: Bradley is miscast here. Diskerud is a better choice, yet more often he's playing in front of the defense. Who else could play here? Nguyen? Corona? JK never wants to give anyone else a chance.

Bradley here. But not pushed up, he plays more even with the outside mids.

Left mid: Zardes is terrible over there. Horribly misused. Bedoya should start. Johnson is next best. Need to see more options.

Bedoya here. Could also use Green

Forwards: Personally, I think Dempsey and Zardes should start. Altidore just doesn't impress. He has a couple good moments per game but that's it. He's not a constant threat. Johannsson deserves a spot on the bench as well with Altidore. Wondo I'm ready to see the back of. With youngsters like Green, Wood, Morris, and Rubin, I'd rather see someone that had some pace for the late sub than a guy who's just kind of there.

Some combo of Dempsey, Zardes, Aron, Wood, Morris, Rubin, Altidore. If looking at 2018, go less with Dempsey.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Beckerman is one of the best technical players in the US pool. If not for age, he'd be in a top European league.

Gyasi is a forward, not a winger or CM.

The problem with Fabian is that he's our best option at LB, RB and LM. And he probably is most effective at LM, personally. So lots to think about there.

Yedlin has been playing wing over seas, so hoping that helps his development.

I have no clue why aron doesn't play more.

It amazes me how we can play with the likes of Italy, Netherlands, Germany and then struggle to put away Honduras.

Those were friendlies, which in my mind is a huge difference.  Or another way to put it, we were up big for those games, but I doubt they were up big for us.  Versus Honduras, we played down while Honduras played up to the competition.  Role reversal.

[Golden Avalanche]

Beckerman is one of the best technical players in the US pool. If not for age, he'd be in a top European league.

Gyasi is a forward, not a winger or CM.

The problem with Fabian is that he's our best option at LB, RB and LM. And he probably is most effective at LM, personally. So lots to think about there.

Yedlin has been playing wing over seas, so hoping that helps his development.

I have no clue why aron doesn't play more.

It amazes me how we can play with the likes of Italy, Netherlands, Germany and then struggle to put away Honduras.

Your post history research of my anti-Americanism has been awfully quiet. I was looking forward to it.

[jesmu84]

Your post history research of my anti-Americanism has been awfully quiet. I was looking forward to it.

Considering chitown said it was him and you said it wasn't you, led me to decide I didn't need to search.

[Golden Avalanche]

Considering chitown said it was him and you said it wasn't you, led me to decide I didn't need to search.

Cool. I'll just wait until you forget again who writes what on this forum.

[jesmu84]

Cool. I'll just wait until you forget again who writes what on this forum.

Meh. Probably won't have to wait too long. This isn't my singular focus in life.

[Golden Avalanche]

Meh. Probably won't have to wait too long. This isn't my singular focus in life.

That was clear from your dunce act last week. I hope you at least enjoy an adult beverage when you lurk on Scoop at 02.19 AM.

[jesmu84]

That was clear from your dunce act last week. I hope you at least enjoy an adult beverage when you lurk on Scoop at 02.19 AM.

Not sure where you're getting that. My post in reference to you was at 8:02PM. My follow-up was at 11:04AM.

[brewcity77]

Okay...back on topic

Really hoping for an emphatic win tonight. The Haiti/Panama draw put us in great shape that if we win tonight we are guaranteed to go through in first or second. If we win and Honduras/Panama draw, we win the group. Haiti was brave against Panama, but they're clearly the whipping boy of the group. Need to lay some wood on them. Hoping for 4+ goals in a win.

Would like to see some changes from Jurgen, but I don't expect them. I'd either like to see Evans start for Chandler, or Yedlin slide back to RB and start Zusi on the wing. Also like to see Zardes either pushed inside (by Bedoya) or come off the bench. I have no illusions that Jozy won't start. Also like to see someone else for Beckerman, ideally Mix with Bradley playing a little deeper. But again, this is JK, so Bradley will still be the #10. Also wouldn't mind Alvarado sitting. Ream, Gonzalez, matters not, just give someone else a chance.

[brewcity77]

Two poor performances and we still won the group. Go figure.

JK changed the entire backline and not surprisingly they weren't in sync. Put Zusi and Altidore on the wings and they produced little. I have no idea what the plan was but I sure hope it failed. The one goal was created, not surprisingly, when again miscast winger Gyasi Zardes cut inside to a central forward role and found Dempsey with a cut back.

Here's the formation I think makes sense:

Guzan
Evans --- Gonzalez --- Brooks --- Garza
Bradley
Yedlin --- Johnson
Diskerud
Dempsey --- Zardes

Our backline is a shambles regardless, so get our best attackers on the wings, put Bradley and Diskerud in natural positions, and let our best creator and scorer do their job in the box.

[Golden Avalanche]

My short anti-American thoughts:

 -- Haiti showed that team speed and desire is nearly all you need to win

 -- USMNT is clearly following the USWNT plan of being poor in the group only for the sake of fooling everyone and then gain momentum in the late rounds

 -- If the US was in Mexico's position last night and didn't put away a shorthanded opponent, there would be a communal conniption fit in the US Soccer punditry class

[WarriorInNYC]

Two poor performances and we still won the group. Go figure.

JK changed the entire backline and not surprisingly they weren't in sync. Put Zusi and Altidore on the wings and they produced little. I have no idea what the plan was but I sure hope it failed. The one goal was created, not surprisingly, when again miscast winger Gyasi Zardes cut inside to a central forward role and found Dempsey with a cut back.

Here's the formation I think makes sense:

Guzan
Evans --- Gonzalez --- Brooks --- Garza
Bradley
Yedlin --- Johnson
Diskerud
Dempsey --- Zardes

Our backline is a shambles regardless, so get our best attackers on the wings, put Bradley and Diskerud in natural positions, and let our best creator and scorer do their job in the box.

Made the drive from NY out to Foxboro for the game.  Great crowd and was a ton of fun.  Was really hoping for us to score many goals, but I'll take 3 points.

I like your suggested formation here, though I think Bradley and Diskerud switch CAM and CDM.  Bradley has been playing well at the top of the diamond over the last couple of months and Diskerud can be a force defensively.

[WarriorInNYC]

-- USMNT is clearly following the USWNT plan of being poor in the group only for the sake of fooling everyone and then gain momentum in the late rounds

I think this comment was made as sort of tounge-in-cheek, but I do think this is worth realizing. 

These first two games were poor performances for the USMNT, but that doesn't mean this team can't flip the switch.

[brewcity77]

I think this comment was made as sort of tounge-in-cheek, but I do think this is worth realizing. 

These first two games were poor performances for the USMNT, but that doesn't mean this team can't flip the switch.

I'm sincerely hoping that's the case. Honestly, the advantage we have is CONCACAF is pretty poor. As it stands, we are guaranteed a third place team from Group B or C, El Salvador or Guatemala most likely in the quarters. In the semis, likely Honduras or Jamaica. All of those are very winnable, and set up to only have to face one of Costa Rica or Mexico to win the tournament. We can sputter through this and still make the final without playing our best.

[jesmu84]

1st half analysis: Puke