Futbol Talk

[ChicosBailBonds]

Did anyone here actually say we could win the whole thing? or that anyone expected that?

Nope, but plenty of people said Klinsmann was negative and a pessimist.  Some reporters called for his firing.  Personally, I loved his refreshing response. Too many sunshine pumpers in life and way way way too many people that come down on those that bring the truth when they would rather have the sunshine.

I'll take it straight, keep the sunshine.   Somewhere schools stopped teaching the difference between pessimism and realism.  I'd blame common core, but it hasn't been around long enough.  One can still believe and support in a result, but also be realistic on what is likely.  To some, that is negative.  Perhaps too nuanced for them.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Of course not. But, as with everything, it has to be about positioning themselves against the majority whether logically or not.

I also said no, no one said it.  That wasn't the point.  Not sure I understand your answer at all.  How is anything I said illogical or against the majority, whatever that means?  Can you clarify?

[Henry Sugar]

Actually what bugs me is people's daily incorrect understanding of the difference between reality, pessimism and opportunism.  Look a lot of people called Klinsmann negative, a lot of people were wrong.  Like you in this case.  

I never called Klinsmann negative. Klinsmann gets the right to be realistic. He's the technical director for US Soccer, the Head Coach for the USMNT, and he's won a World Cup. Also, Klinsmann is German.

You had a negative opinion about our chances and then congratulated yourself for being right. Hope you feel good about that.



Finally, I'm done talking about Chicos in this thread. This thread is about soccer.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I never called Klinsmann negative. Klinsmann gets the right to be realistic. He's the technical director for US Soccer, the Head Coach for the USMNT, and he's won a World Cup. Also, Klinsmann is German.

You had a negative opinion about our chances and then congratulated yourself for being right. Hope you feel good about that.

Again, fundamental lack of understanding.  I did not have a negative opinion about our chances, I had a REALISTIC opinion about our chances.  Your understanding is lacking here.

I never said you called Klinsmann negative, that's not the point.  Klinsmann knew what we had, so did others.  He was being realistic, as were others.

After you told me how I was wrong in this thread, sure I was glad to be right, but not glad at the result.  Surely you can understand this difference.  I cheered wildly for the US to win, believed we could win, but realistically thought we wouldn't. All are possible, in fact that's exactly what happened.

You're a smart guy, one that normally bases his posts on logic so I'm not sure why you have so much emotion in this one that you can't discern the difference.  It's truly not that hard.  

[Henry Sugar]

There's an obvious disclaimer that it's way too early, but there were a lot of names with which I was unfamiliar.

http://thebiglead.com/2014/07/02/2018-us-world-cup-roster-projecting-the-23-man-squad/

Also, one of the names listed (Andrija Novakovich) was a MU Soccer commit that turned down the scholie to go play professionally.

[jesmu84]

http://www.espnfc.us/team/united-states/660/blog/post/1929404/us-world-cup-player-rankings

Thoughts?

Feels about right to me. Some of the subs (Brooks, Green) may be a bit high.

Still wonder how much different the Belgium game would have been if we'd kept Becks in the starting lineup and added Mix in the second half

[ChicosBailBonds]

I love Ray Ratto's take on the whole thing.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/earthquakes/what-does-mean-soccer-america-who-gives-damn

I'd say he hit a homerun with that article.

[77ncaachamps]

You knew it was coming:

http://www.pandawill.com/cool-luis-alberto-suarez-bottle-opener-in-world-cup-with-vivid-bite-image-p90700.html

[Golden Avalanche]

http://www.espnfc.us/team/united-states/660/blog/post/1929404/us-world-cup-player-rankings

Thoughts?

Feels about right to me. Some of the subs (Brooks, Green) may be a bit high.

Still wonder how much different the Belgium game would have been if we'd kept Becks in the starting lineup and added Mix in the second half

Green too high. The cameo is stuff of legend but really just prologue to his emergence in Russia.

Davis far too high. Thought his time against Germany was utterly forgettable.

Hard on Bedoya. One of the best tacklers of the Cup. Thought he provided underrated cover for our midfield.

I like Gonzo but fifth is too high. Weak clearance led to De Bruyne goal and he failed to mark Mert giving him a free header in the box which lead to Mueller's goal.

Wondo should be #23. In a "real" soccer country, he'd be getting death threats for such a terrible miss. Debate whether that's a positive or not.

[Henry Sugar]

More on predictions for the 2018 roster. Plenty of GIFs and youtuble clips.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/worldcup/2014/news/article/2014/07/03/world-cup-predicting-2018-usmnt-roster-armchair-analyst

Nice to see Harry Shipp pop up on the list.

[MUfan12]

A lot of people sleeping on Marc Pelosi. Liverpool was very high on him before his injury in 2013. Could be valuable as he can play wide, and centrally in the midfield.

[mu03eng]

Two names I don't see that while I'm not surprised aren't on the lists should be....Brek Shea and Stuart Holden.  I know Holden has pissed off the ACL gods but if he is healthy he could be special.  Brek has had a couple of tough breaks but if he matures a little he could be our best option at wing in 2018.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Klinsmann...."a lot of work ahead"

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_26078833/world-cup-klinsmann-says-u-s-soccer-has


I especially like the comment about the fact American players don't face the condemnation from the community when they play poorly.  Someone here asked how you know when we take the next step....that's a big part of it.  When we don't make excuses, when we expect to win, when we aren't just happy we give another country a good game and when we aren't that team nobody wants to play (it implies we are gritty, won't give up, hustle our butts off but also implies we don't have the talent).  That's when we have arrived.

A lot of work ahead, still quite a long way to go.

[Henry Sugar]

Somewhat trite, but I enjoyed it regardless.

http://babb.telegraph.co.uk/2014/07/33-reasons-why-we-love-the-us-mens-soccer-team/

[JWags85]

Two names I don't see that while I'm not surprised aren't on the lists should be....Brek Shea and Stuart Holden.  I know Holden has pissed off the ACL gods but if he is healthy he could be special.  Brek has had a couple of tough breaks but if he matures a little he could be our best option at wing in 2018.

Love Stu Holden, one of my favorite USMNT players in a long time, but he's a month away from 29.  At this point, I would just be happy if he could carve out a few successful seasons for Championship or EPL sides.  I can't see him in the National Team picture at all going forward.

Shea is going to keep falling down the lists of preferred wingers as more talent comes up and he keeps mucking up opportunities.  I like his energy and creativity on the ball, but he was terrible at Stoke and then did himself no favors on loan at Barnsley.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Somewhat trite, but I enjoyed it regardless.

http://babb.telegraph.co.uk/2014/07/33-reasons-why-we-love-the-us-mens-soccer-team/

This photo, unfortunately, doesn't tell a good story in my view.  It's great that people are in Cowboys stadium watching on the big screen, but also shows rather coldly how an average Cowboys team packs 100K a game in there and many empty seats for arguably the biggest soccer game for the US in decades, maybe ever.  I know Soldier Field had 25K, which is nice I guess.




It will be interesting to see where things go.  My sense is this is more of an every 4 year thing for the most part from American sports fans, but you will see some slight upticks this year with MLS, etc.  The quality of that league will make it tough to keep people watching for the long haul, however.  You may see some spikes again with the major tournaments.  Hope to be wrong, but we are a nation of what is hot.

[jesmu84]

Couple good articles:

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2014/7/3/5864221/potential-usmnt-players-to-watch-during-the-2018-world-cup-cycle

http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/07/klinsmann-planning-movement.html

Oh. And this one. Tough to tell when he's being realistic: http://www.espnfc.us/united-states/story/1929437/jurgen-klinsmann-says-united-states-now-in-position-to-win-a-world-cup

[jesmu84]

Sour grapes or insight? http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/07/donovan-tactical-world.html

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sour grapes or insight? http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/07/donovan-tactical-world.html

Honestly, I don't think Klinsmann had much choice.  Agree with Donovan that we didn't necessarily set ourselves up for success, but it was risk vs reward.  We went with a defensive posture, prayed we could keep them out of the back of the net and perhaps we get lucky.  It almost happened.  If we went for the attack, I have visions of a 3 or 4 to zero game.  We will never know, perhaps he is right.  Maybe we would have worn them out or potentially exposed their backs.

[brandx]

This photo, unfortunately, doesn't tell a good story in my view.  It's great that people are in Cowboys stadium watching on the big screen, but also shows rather coldly how an average Cowboys team packs 100K a game in there and many empty seats for arguably the biggest soccer game for the US in decades, maybe ever.  I know Soldier Field had 25K, which is nice I guess.

It will be interesting to see where things go.  My sense is this is more of an every 4 year thing for the most part from American sports fans, but you will see some slight upticks this year with MLS, etc.  The quality of that league will make it tough to keep people watching for the long haul, however.  You may see some spikes again with the major tournaments.  Hope to be wrong, but we are a nation of what is hot.

Most of us who are not soccer fans find it stunningly boring. Way, way too many teams with no offense whatsoever. Teams not even trying to score and putting their entire hopes in a shootout.

And watching the US play isn't going to bring new fans to the game in this country. Even a very casual fan who is not into the game at all (like me) could see how hopelessly outclassed the US was in their last two games. Only the historic play of Howard kept the last game from being a monumental thrashing.

[reinko]

This photo, unfortunately, doesn't tell a good story in my view.  It's great that people are in Cowboys stadium watching on the big screen, but also shows rather coldly how an average Cowboys team packs 100K a game in there and many empty seats for arguably the biggest soccer game for the US in decades, maybe ever.  I know Soldier Field had 25K, which is nice I guess.




It will be interesting to see where things go.  My sense is this is more of an every 4 year thing for the most part from American sports fans, but you will see some slight upticks this year with MLS, etc.  The quality of that league will make it tough to keep people watching for the long haul, however.  You may see some spikes again with the major tournaments.  Hope to be wrong, but we are a nation of what is hot.

Cmon man,  I know you are better than this.   These stadium watches had 2-3 days notice,  with both of the stadiums you mentioned with a 3pm start,  requiring people to take the whole day off to get there,  and watch.  I know here in Boston,  bars were packed,  people left work early,  companies streamed it for their employees,  it was different this year,  just admit it,  it was.
 

[ttheisen]

This photo, unfortunately, doesn't tell a good story in my view.  It's great that people are in Cowboys stadium watching on the big screen, but also shows rather coldly how an average Cowboys team packs 100K a game in there and many empty seats for arguably the biggest soccer game for the US in decades, maybe ever.  I know Soldier Field had 25K, which is nice I guess.

This is so silly.  If the US - Belgium match was live at the Cowboy stadium, it would be sold out.  If this was a Cowboys Super Bowl watch party, there would be like 5k people there.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Cmon man,  I know you are better than this.   These stadium watches had 2-3 days notice,  with both of the stadiums you mentioned with a 3pm start,  requiring people to take the whole day off to get there,  and watch.  I know here in Boston,  bars were packed,  people left work early,  companies streamed it for their employees,  it was different this year,  just admit it,  it was.

Reinko, I get it.  At the same time, to become "big time" or to take that next step it has to be bigger than that.  This only happens once every 4 years, the excitement SHOULD be there.

The bars thing, sure.  I was at one for one of the games as well.  It was fun, but I'm not going to go overboard on it.  That's a destination for the passionate and motivated.  For the passionate, its big time.  For some of the casual fans, certainly fun.  For many folks, like Brandx, not much.  We had it on every tv in the building.  There were folks very into it, and many that watched not one second of it.

Honest question, because it is asked EVERY time the WC takes place and the predictions that soccer will explode in this country....what are your expectations in terms of viewership, attendance, euphoria over the next 3 years, especially after the next 6 months when the halo effect disappears.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is so silly.  If the US - Belgium match was live at the Cowboy stadium, it would be sold out.  If this was a Cowboys Super Bowl watch party, there would be like 5k people there.

Actually if it was a Super Bowl watch party involving the Cowboys, it would be sold out, but I get your  point.  Certainly that type of game would draw well and likely sell out at Cowboys stadium if Belgium and the US played.  I've been to my share of US games at the Rose Bowl, including playing Mexico where the US fans are actually in the minority..sad to see, so that's not the issue in my view.  We have to get it to a point of being something more than just the soccer diehards.

People will go to a baseball, football, basketball game even if they don't like the sport.  Tomorrow going to the Angels game with the family, not everyone is a baseball fan but it's something to do.  No way in hell I could get the family to go to the Galaxy game tomorrow night as an example.  Too many casual sports fans that get into this every 4 years, but that's as good as it gets.

[77ncaachamps]

How much were they charging in Dallas for the viewing party?

ZILCH.
It was free.
http://soccerblog.dallasnews.com/2014/06/cowboys-att-stadium-to-host-free-u-s-belgium-world-cup-watching-party-tuesday.html/


So why was it empty?

- Bars are more intimate.
- You can watch it at home...in A/C.
- The Beer and Food are MUCH cheaper outside the stadium.
- High school football teams were scrimmaging that day.