ESPN article on Indiana Elite and IU...."...yeah the whole thing stinks"

[texaswarrior74]

Very interesting article by Mike Fish....can't help but think that the NCAA won't be looking a little harder at this.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=6587668

[77ncaachamps]

Already in the SuperBar...

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27090.0

[Tulsa Warrior]

There's a strong odor surrounding all this.  It appears to be bent and broken rules.  What ethical price should you pay to build a winning program.  I predict an ESPN documentary, 60 Minutes segment and a movie.  This story makes Strike Lee's basketball movie look like child's play.

[ChicosBailBonds]

There's a strong odor surrounding all this.  It appears to be bent and broken rules.  What ethical price should you pay to build a winning program.  I predict an ESPN documentary, 60 Minutes segment and a movie.  This story makes Strike Lee's basketball movie look like child's play.

I'm curious who is breaking the rules in your mind?  The AAU team or Duke (using Indiana Elite players), Purdue (using Indiana Elite players), Butler (using Indiana Elite players), Indiana (using Indiana Elite players), North Carolina (using Indiana Elite players), etc?

If you read the article, sure as hell looks like ESPN is saying the schools did nothing wrong and anything controversial is on the side of A-Hope and the AAU program.

[brewcity77]

I'm curious who is breaking the rules in your mind?  The AAU team or Duke (using Indiana Elite players), Purdue (using Indiana Elite players), Butler (using Indiana Elite players), Indiana (using Indiana Elite players), North Carolina (using Indiana Elite players), etc?

If you read the article, sure as hell looks like ESPN is saying the schools did nothing wrong and anything controversial is on the side of A-Hope and the AAU program.

Is that why they point out the hiring of the son right before the rule was changed? ESPN painted A-HOPE, Indiana Elite, and their connection to IU as being fishy. You can't possibly tell me you actually read the article and didn't see that.

I don't know that any rules were broken, my guess is that anything close to infractions were technicalities in which the rules were changed after the fact, so IU will almost certainly get away with it. But it's certainly a bit hinky, and anyone who actually read the article would have to see that they're alleging that.

And the reason it's questionable with IU and not the others is because the other schools you mention didn't hire the son of the guy running Indiana Elite. They also paint Tennessee and New Mexico as being possibly shady in this due to the same connection. Do you really not see that?

Chicos, I know you defend Indiana, and I don't necessarily think that they did anything that they would be sanctioned or reprimanded for, but there's no way you can look at this article and not see that they are connecting some dodgy dots to Bloomington.

[Pakuni]

I'm curious who is breaking the rules in your mind?  The AAU team or Duke (using Indiana Elite players), Purdue (using Indiana Elite players), Butler (using Indiana Elite players), Indiana (using Indiana Elite players), North Carolina (using Indiana Elite players), etc?

Which one of these schools hired the AAU coach's son to gain access and favor with the program?

[79Warrior]

I'm curious who is breaking the rules in your mind?  The AAU team or Duke (using Indiana Elite players), Purdue (using Indiana Elite players), Butler (using Indiana Elite players), Indiana (using Indiana Elite players), North Carolina (using Indiana Elite players), etc?

If you read the article, sure as hell looks like ESPN is saying the schools did nothing wrong and anything controversial is on the side of A-Hope and the AAU program.

hiring the guy's son is a little suspect to say the least.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Which one of these schools hired the AAU coach's son to gain access and favor with the program?

Gain favor with a program that you have ties to for 30+ years and earned commitments from in those 30 years?  Interesting.  Well, since that AAU coach's son is gone now, I guess IU will never get another player from that AAU program since apparently the "Favor" is gone now.      It's interesting how you keep ignoring the 30+ year relationship as if it never existed. Equally interesting the number of recruits that IU signed from Elite before Adams was ever employed.  But hey, who's stopping you from telling the whole story...not me...you keep on going.

[brewcity77]

Gain favor with a program that you have ties to for 30+ years and earned commitments from in those 30 years?  Interesting.  Well, since that AAU coach's son is gone now, I guess IU will never get another player from that AAU program since apparently the "Favor" is gone now.      It's interesting how you keep ignoring the 30+ year relationship as if it never existed. Equally interesting the number of recruits that IU signed from Elite before Adams was ever employed.  But hey, who's stopping you from telling the whole story...not me...you keep on going.

1) Someone posted the stat, 3 recruits in 3 years before Adams, 8 recruits in 12 months after his hiring. Do you really think that's coincidence?

2) I explained the "Favor" you spoke of. Adams left for UNM on good terms seemingly, unlike how he left Tennessee. No reason the pipeline will dry up.

3) No one is saying Adams is the only factor, but it seems like all of their best players suddenly headed to Indiana right after he was hired. Again, do you really think that's coincidence?

[mviale]

Crean cant win at Indy without cheating.  Its OK - why do we care?

[NersEllenson]

Gain favor with a program that you have ties to for 30+ years and earned commitments from in those 30 years?  Interesting.  Well, since that AAU coach's son is gone now, I guess IU will never get another player from that AAU program since apparently the "Favor" is gone now.      It's interesting how you keep ignoring the 30+ year relationship as if it never existed. Equally interesting the number of recruits that IU signed from Elite before Adams was ever employed.  But hey, who's stopping you from telling the whole story...not me...you keep on going.

Pretty sure that the Bloomington Red and Indiana Elite are 2 different programs.  THere has not been a 30 year history between IU and the Indiana Elite

[NersEllenson]

1) Someone posted the stat, 3 recruits in 3 years before Adams, 8 recruits in 12 months after his hiring. Do you really think that's coincidence?

2) I explained the "Favor" you spoke of. Adams left for UNM on good terms seemingly, unlike how he left Tennessee. No reason the pipeline will dry up.

3) No one is saying Adams is the only factor, but it seems like all of their best players suddenly headed to Indiana right after he was hired. Again, do you really think that's coincidence?

The fact we are even trying to pacify the ridiculous arguments of CBB is ludicrous.  The Adams family housed Jurkin and Parea in their home.  They provided shelter and food for God's sakes.  Think they held any influence where either kid went to school??!!

The fact our resident Crean lover and Buzz basher is trying to excuse the behavior of TC - when the same poster gets up in arms over the squirmy tactics Buzz Williams allegedly uses in recruiting is comedy. 

[m2162650]

Pretty sure that the Bloomington Red and Indiana Elite are 2 different programs.  THere has not been a 30 year history between IU and the Indiana Elite

Actually, Indiana Elite and Bloomington Red are the same program ran by the same people.....plus or minus a person or two.  JR Holmes from Bloomington South has some power over this....this program has been affiliated with IU for awhile.  Brad Stevens and Matt Painter played for Bloomington Red.......

Again, this was a shot at AHOPE...most likely from Baylor.  They sent out letters to the mass media to "investigate" AHOPE around 5 months ago when they threatened deportation to Perea.  On Indianapolis radio today, Adams stated that the NCAA seemed ok with the travel, computers and cell phones......A lot of the AHOPE kids have the option to fly home to visit.  This only could potentially make Perea pay back the cell phone charges and the computer and he may have to sit out a game.  But, the reporter was wrong about a lot of things and did not tell the whole story.  The email (16 pages long) that was sent to the ESPN reporter was blessed by the Indiana compliance office with the NCAA listening in.....Indiana is not hiding much here....

[Hoopaloop]

Is that why they point out the hiring of the son right before the rule was changed? ESPN painted A-HOPE, Indiana Elite, and their connection to IU as being fishy. You can't possibly tell me you actually read the article and didn't see that.

I don't know that any rules were broken, my guess is that anything close to infractions were technicalities in which the rules were changed after the fact, so IU will almost certainly get away with it. But it's certainly a bit hinky, and anyone who actually read the article would have to see that they're alleging that.

And the reason it's questionable with IU and not the others is because the other schools you mention didn't hire the son of the guy running Indiana Elite. They also paint Tennessee and New Mexico as being possibly shady in this due to the same connection. Do you really not see that?

Chicos, I know you defend Indiana, and I don't necessarily think that they did anything that they would be sanctioned or reprimanded for, but there's no way you can look at this article and not see that they are connecting some dodgy dots to Bloomington.

Purdue grad here (MU as well).  Think you guys are making something out of nothing.  No implication of Indiana at all that I see and I would love to see IU get tattooed.  I have yet to read anything that suggests anything IU or Crean did was illegal.  Besides, if Crean is fired IU will get Brad Stevens which is no good (though give Crean credit as he has recruited the hell out of the state).


Here is some other information (in the links) that has come out that honestly probably should have been included in the ESPN report.  ESPN loves to do this kind of stuff and they are not much on the bastions of completeness.

http://blogs.indystar.com/recruitingcentral/2011/05/27/father-of-former-indiana-elite-player-said-adams-never-talked-about-iu/

http://www.hoosier-cafe.com/2011/05/espns-motto-page-hits-check-facts.html


http://www.insidethehall.com/2011/05/26/a-deeper-look-at-espns-a-hope-investigation/

http://blogs.indystar.com/hoosiersinsider/2011/05/27/was-iu-basketball-damaged-by-espn-com-article/

I see one of these players being reprimanded for receiving extra benefits from A-Hope.  That would not surprise me.  It also has nothing to do with Indiana or their coaching staff.  Espn's follow up article today essentially admits this.  http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/31404/prized-iu-recruit-may-have-received-benefits


People should probably wait until all the facts come in before hanging Crean from the cross, especially when even ESPN's story admits Crean and Indiana did nothing wrong.  One has to wonder if Buzz Williams was the coach and we had this insane 4 decade relationsihp with one of the top AAU programs in the land if we would act differently.  I have my vote.  We would hunker down.  

Pretty sloppy job by Fish and ESPN.  At the very least, they didn't track down the other side of the story which leads me to believe they wanted to make a splash and journalism part was rather secondary.

[Marquette84]

The fact we are even trying to pacify the ridiculous arguments of CBB is ludicrous.  The Adams family housed Jurkin and Parea in their home.  They provided shelter and food for God's sakes.  Think they held any influence where either kid went to school??!!

Duke hired Chris Duhon's mother.  Kansas hired Carlos Boozer's father.  Iowa State hired Dalonte Hill to land Michael Beasley.  Hell, even Buzz Williams hired Jimmy Butler's JUCO assistant coach.

So the question becomes if you KNEW for 100% fact that Drew Adams could bring eight elite-level recruits with him--and you knew for 100% fact that there was no NCAA rule against it--why would you NOT hire him?

Yes, the rule has since changed.  Crean couldn't hire Adams and still have landed those players.  And Buzz couldn't have taken both Butler and Monarch.

But at the time, both moves were legal.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I once saw someone say that the scandal isn't what is illegal, it is what is legal. I'm not sure I've read any illegalities, but boy does it make a person squirm to see how dirty college basketball can be.

Crean's line about not apologizing for working hard is precious.

Remind anyone of Nixon and not apologizing for the dog, circa the 1952 presidential race?

[Pakuni]

Duke hired Chris Duhon's mother.

Not true. But she did land a job at a private company in Durham.

Kansas hired Carlos Boozer's father.

And yet he went to Duke. Ingrate.
Mario Chalmers, perhaps?

Iowa State hired Dalonte Hill to land Michael Beasley.

Kansas State, maybe?
Was Dalonte Hill the unqualified son of Beasley's high school or AAU coach? Did he have any familial relationship with Beasley? No and no. He was an assistant at a respectable mid-major program. Terrible comparison.

Hell, even Buzz Williams hired Jimmy Butler's JUCO assistant coach.

Yeah, Scott Monarch, a guy Buzz had known for 15 years before Jimmy Butler was ever on MU's radar.
Nice try, sport.

Yes, the rule has since changed.  Crean couldn't hire Adams and still have landed those players.  And Buzz couldn't have taken both Butler and Monarch.

Not true.
Jimmy Butler signed with MU in April 2008.
Monarch joined MU's staff in June 2008.
Even under today's rule, it would've been OK.
Again, nice try.

[HouWarrior]

The Adams family housed Jurkin and Parea in their home.  They provided shelter and food for God's sakes.  Think they held any influence where either kid went to school??!!

Of course, the Adams family had influence...some would say they even cast a spell over those coming to their house....I have always been suspicious, and fearful of anyone associated with the Adams Family....summed up in  this song:

cue the harpsichord
...da da dum, snap snap...


They're creepy and they're kooky,
Mysterious and spooky,
They're all together ooky,
The Adams Family.

Their house is a museum
Where people come to see 'em
They really are a scream
The Adams Family.

(Neat)
(Sweet)
(Petite)

So get a witches shawl on
A broomstick you can crawl on
We're gonna pay a call on
The Adams Family.

After his numerous home visits with the Adams Family, Tom Crean is recruiting Lurch to play C, on his IU squad, this fall--lol

[Hoopaloop]

The Adams family.  That was great Houston!!

[Marquette84]

Yeah, Scott Monarch, a guy Buzz had known for 15 years before Jimmy Butler was ever on MU's radar.

And Drew Adams was a guy IU assistant Tim Buckley had known for two years before Crean was even hired by Indiana.

Not true.
Jimmy Butler signed with MU in April 2008.
Monarch joined MU's staff in June 2008.

Actually, you're wrong.

On April 18th, Monarch was already reported as being part of Buzz's staff.

http://www.tylerpaper.com/article/20080418/SPORTS06/804180320
"TJC assistant coach Scott Monarch will be joining the Golden Eagles staff under new head coach Buzz Williams."

You made the mistake of looking at the date MU finally got around to announcing the news--it was well known long before then--even published in the Tyler, Tx. news.

And Butler himself said at the time he signed his LOI: "I know that coach Monarch's going to take care of me when I get up there."  

You can interpret that any way you want--I think the phrasing makes it obvious that Jimmy knew that Monarch was going to be in Milwaukee before he made his commitment to MU.

Even under today's rule, it would've been OK.
Again, nice try.

Wrong again.  The NCAA now prohibits hiring an AAU or JUCO coach for a non-coaching role for two years before or after a recruit from the same JUCO or AAU program.
http://recruitlook.com/blog/id_184-ncaa-prohibits-hiring-coaches-linked-to-recuirts.html

Given that Monarch was hired for a non-coaching role at MU, hiring him and recruiting Butler would now be against the new rule.

--------

I'm not saying that Buzz did anything wrong--what he did was perfectly legal under NCAA rules at the time.  So was IU's hiring Adams.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Given that Monarch was hired for a non-coaching role at MU, hiring him and recruiting Butler would now be against the new rule.

--------

I'm not saying that Buzz did anything wrong--what he did was perfectly legal under NCAA rules at the time.  So was IU's hiring Adams.

The other irony is that Buzz Williams is against this rule...the very rule that some folks here are all bent out of shape on.  LOL


http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=jn-juco072310

[m2162650]

The ESPN article butchered that all these commits were caused because of Adams as well.  They did a horrible job researching this stuff. 

1) Austin Etherington - Offered when he played for Spiece and accepted before suiting up for Indiana Elite
2) Cody Zeller - His parents do not let anyone near their kid.  The Adams had ZERO influence on this recruitment
3) Yogi Ferrell - the day that Cody Zeller committed to IU ended his recruitment.  He went as far to say so on twitter....when he announced to IU two weeks after Cody Zeller did everyone knew it was IU.
4) Perea - He was brought over by Baylor.  He never visited Baylor.  Adams had influence here...so we have 1.  One of the kids Adams is the legal guardian of.
5) Jurkin - He could have been influenced by Adams being an AHOPE kid...so we have 2.
6) Ron Patterson - He has never played for Adams.  Him and Adams do not get along.  He went as far to quit the AAU team that he joined that was coached by Adams.  He is still a strong IU commit even though he does not play for Adams anymore.  His main mentor is an IU grad though.
7) Jeremy Hollowell - He committed to IU when he played for EG10 (Eric Gordon's AAU team).  He changed teams to Indiana Elite to play with the other Indiana kids. Same mentor as Patterson is Hollowell's.
8) Colin Hartman - Committed while playing with Indiana Elite.  He is no longer playing for Indiana Elite.  He plays for EG10 instead with Devin Davis, the other Indiana commitment for the 2013 class.

The ESPN article mentioned that Indiana had commitments from Indiana Elite until 2014...this is wrong as well.  They have commitments from EG10 and Spiece for the 2013 and 2014 classes...Spiece is where Dominic James came from.

It is kind of hard not to hit one of the main 3 AAU teams while coaching in Indiana....those being Indiana Elite, EG10 and Spiece.  These kids will always have the top talent in the state.

Duke hired Chris Duhon's mother.  Kansas hired Carlos Boozer's father.  Iowa State hired Dalonte Hill to land Michael Beasley.  Hell, even Buzz Williams hired Jimmy Butler's JUCO assistant coach.

So the question becomes if you KNEW for 100% fact that Drew Adams could bring eight elite-level recruits with him--and you knew for 100% fact that there was no NCAA rule against it--why would you NOT hire him?

Yes, the rule has since changed.  Crean couldn't hire Adams and still have landed those players.  And Buzz couldn't have taken both Butler and Monarch.

But at the time, both moves were legal.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Crean's line about not apologizing for working hard is precious.

This is typical Crean. He constantly talks about how hard he works. The reality is, it doesn't take "hard work" to sign 8 players from a single AAU program. Just as it doesn't take "hard work" to have a roster with McNeal, his pal Acker (did Crean "work" to get Mo?) then Burke and his teammate Cubillan from the exact same high school. "Work" does not entail just throwing scholarships at players from the same school. Furthermore, on that same team we had Blackledge who was signed because his teammate Stemler turned us down. Nobody was offering that kid. This is the same a-hole who signed Berkowitz, having never seen him play. I pointed this out as it was happenning, by the way.

The only thing Crean works hard at is selling himself, gleeming anecdotes from "leadership books" and quoting them back to you and writing "fan letters" to B list celebrities then showing up at their place of work (Ben Sheets, Tony LaRussa, Scott Merritt) in the hopes of appearing to be important. He's a horse's ass in every sense of the word and anybody...I mean anybody...who thinks Crean is a superior coach, harder worker or, most importantly, a better person than Buzz Williams is a horrendous judge of character.
 

[wildbillsb]

Don't hold back, compadre.  Please let us know how you feel.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is typical Crean. He constantly talks about how hard he works. The reality is, it doesn't take "hard work" to sign 8 players from a single AAU program. Just as it doesn't take "hard work" to have a roster with McNeal, his pal Acker (did Crean "work" to get Mo?) then Burke and his teammate Cubillan from the exact same high school. "Work" does not entail just throwing scholarships at players from the same school. Furthermore, on that same team we had Blackledge who was signed because his teammate Stemler turned us down. Nobody was offering that kid. This is the same a-hole who signed Berkowitz, having never seen him play. I pointed this out as it was happenning, by the way.

They've been recruiting those kids for three years...I fail to see how that is easy.  Three years effort is three years effort and it's not as if these are the only kids they've been recruiting, either.  You fail to mention when stating "single AAU" team that many of them have come and gone from that AAU team.  You also fail to mention that historically this AAU team has put kids in top programs all over the country, why on EARTH WOULDN'T YOU RECRUIT KIDS FROM A TOP AAU PROGRAM?  DUH. 

For every Berkowitz there is a Roseboro.  For every Blackledge, there is a Mbao.  Etc, Etc, etc.


We get it, you hate him and everything he does.  There is a lot not to like about him...most would agree, but to suggest their recruiting hasn't been hard is rather comical and defies what just about every recruiting expert in the country has said about them the last few years.  It's funny, so many here screaming about their recruiting when they were on probation and struggling, now they finally get the players and immediately it's cheating or lazy work.  WOW.  Nowhere do I see here that these kids, MOST FROM THE STATE OF INDIANA, might want to...wait for it....play for the flagship school in Indiana that has 5 national titles....nah, that couldn't be it.   

You guys are funny.  I knew this would happen eventually.  The piling on and piling on when they sucked would be a group circle jerk here, then when they started to land players it would be accusations of cheating, next on the 10 stages of grief will be dealing with their success.  It's going to be pretty funny to watch some of you.....let me start off the quotes for some of you "it's about time, should have happened years ago".....