Will we beat Wisconsin next season?

[wildbill sb]

Nothing wrong with your cautious approach, CBB.  Nothing wrong with you as a person either.

God Bless you back 'atcha! 

[NersEllenson]

Some people here have been banned recently for personal insults.  I'm trying to take the high road of late, but I don't always succeed.

I'll lay this out as clearly as I can.  I appreciate Crean for what he did, putting us into a spot that made it attractive for a Buzz Williams to quit his gig after one year and come work for MU.  Having a Dwyane Wade represent the university, now potentially playing for another NBA title, going to the Final Four, graduating nearly everyone, etc, etc.   Crean may be a poser, of course you consistently have said you had no issues with him but seems character is now revealed...finally.

I like Buzz, always have and probably always will.  Good guy, definitely not a poser.  I have been consistent from day one that I will wait to see what happens with his guys, that typically takes 4 or 5 years. So far so good.  I'll stick to it....you fall in love easier than I do....I like to kick the tires, take her for a few test drives before getting down on one knee.  I've seen way too many Bruiser Flints, Steve Lavin at UCLA, etc, etc to not be cautious. 

God Bless and have a wonderful Friday the 13th.

Thanks Chicos.  I'll also appreciate it when the day comes that you go to the same lengths to defend and support our CURRENT coach as you do our former coach.  I'll appreciate it when Buzz doesn't make you squeamish, and you can forgive him for recruiting so many JUCO's.  I'll also appreciate it when you decide not to call our team a bunch of choking dogs who pee themselves.

Last thought just because I think Tom Crean is a poser, doesn't mean I don't appreciate what he did in his time at MU.  You don't have to like someone, but you can like their results - albeit 1 NCAA tourney win without D-Wade over a decade isn't that great of track record, but Crean did rfescue us from the disaster that was Mike Deane.

Enjoy your Friday the 13th.

[Lennys Tap]

I like Buzz, always have and probably always will.  Good guy, definitely not a poser.  I have been consistent from day one that I will wait to see what happens with his guys, that typically takes 4 or 5 years. So far so good.  I'll stick to it....you fall in love easier than I do....I like to kick the tires, take her for a few test drives before getting down on one knee.  I've seen way too many Bruiser Flints, Steve Lavin at UCLA, etc, etc to not be cautious.  

God Bless and have a wonderful Friday the 13th.

Caution gets you Chris Lowery or Bob McKillop. Bold gets you Buzz Williams.

The ADs at Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas A+M, etc. are bold. They've seen enough in Buzz Williams in 3 years to risk their reputations on him. Given the college basketball landscape today, caution gets you bupkus.

[Goose]

Win or lose I predict Elite 8 next season. That is more important to me. I hate UW, but not like I used to.

[MarquetteDano]

One reason why I like our chances next year and the year's after at the Kohl Center is Buzz's defense. Though porous at times, it definitely limits fouling.  Fouling plays right into the Badgers hands in terms of tempo of the game and their solid FT shooting.  I would give us a 50-50 chance of winning next year, which is damn good.

By not fouling as much (and most importantly, not appearing to foul as much) we take much more of the game away from the natural home referee bias.

It will be interesting to see the analysis of this game come early December as we will have much better information on both teams by then.

[Hards Alumni]

Win or lose I predict Elite 8 next season. That is more important to me. I hate UW, but not like I used to.

Its comments like this that make me feel like I am reading the Badger boards.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Caution gets you Chris Lowery or Bob McKillop. Bold gets you Buzz Williams.

The ADs at Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas A+M, etc. are bold. They've seen enough in Buzz Williams in 3 years to risk their reputations on him. Given the college basketball landscape today, caution gets you bupkus.

LOL.  Didn't a lot of AD's say that about another coach we had yet he's a terrible coach according to you.  I love it when you try to have it both ways. 

Have a wonderful weekend.

PS  Bob McKillop has been at Davidson for 20+ years, is their all-time winningest coach, etc, etc.  One would think you could come up with a better example....apparently caution gets you the all-time winningest coach in school history, too.  LOL.  Beautifully played....beautifully played.  LOL

[ChicosBailBonds]

Thanks Chicos.  I'll also appreciate it when the day comes that you go to the same lengths to defend and support our CURRENT coach as you do our former coach.  I'll appreciate it when Buzz doesn't make you squeamish, and you can forgive him for recruiting so many JUCO's.  I'll also appreciate it when you decide not to call our team a bunch of choking dogs who pee themselves.

Last thought just because I think Tom Crean is a poser, doesn't mean I don't appreciate what he did in his time at MU.  You don't have to like someone, but you can like their results - albeit 1 NCAA tourney win without D-Wade over a decade isn't that great of track record, but Crean did rfescue us from the disaster that was Mike Deane.

Enjoy your Friday the 13th.

I do as well....when the current guy accomplishes what the previous ones have, then I can't wait to do that....since the current guy is a better coach and better recruiter, it really shouldn't be that much longer until we're back in the 4th through 6th position in the Big East and a Final Four.    

[Jay Bee]

I have been consistent from day one that I will wait to see what happens with his guys, that typically takes 4 or 5 years.

5 years, at a minimum, will be your rule for your favorite dude, right?  Year 4 ain't gonna be pretty. 

[brewcity77]

5 years, at a minimum, will be your rule for your favorite dude, right?  Year 4 ain't gonna be pretty.

I'm assuming you're talking about I4. If year 4 ain't gonna be pretty, why did Lunardi have Indiana in the his first NCAA bracket for 2011? Granted, as a 12-seed, but considering where they've been turning up the past 3 years, I think even being a bubble team would be a fairly nice accomplishment.

[Pakuni]

I'm assuming you're talking about I4. If year 4 ain't gonna be pretty, why did Lunardi have Indiana in the his first NCAA bracket for 2011? Granted, as a 12-seed, but considering where they've been turning up the past 3 years, I think even being a bubble team would be a fairly nice accomplishment.

I have no idea where I4 will end up next season, but I'm not sure being a 12 seed in Lunardi's early May bracket counts for anything or should be used as evidence that they will or won't have a good season.
Getting into the tourney would be a big accomplishment, but folks down in Bloomington might not want to make travel plans just yet based on Bracketology.

[brewcity77]

I have no idea where I4 will end up next season, but I'm not sure being a 12 seed in Lunardi's early May bracket counts for anything or should be used as evidence that they will or won't have a good season.
Getting into the tourney would be a big accomplishment, but folks down in Bloomington might not want to make travel plans just yet based on Bracketology.

No, but I'd say the pieces are falling into place for them to make a postseason tournament next year, which is progress. When Sampson left them in ruins, I think they expected a long rebuilding process. Return to the postseason next year, even just the NIT, and then capitalize on the 7 five-star recruits that have either signed or given verbal commitments over the next 4 years and Indiana should be right back on track.

Love or hate Crean, he has been able to recruit the level of players he never got at Marquette. However Buzz is showing promise in being able to recruit those types of players to Marquette, so I'm satisfied with that

[Hoopaloop]

Caution gets you Chris Lowery or Bob McKillop. Bold gets you Buzz Williams.

The ADs at Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas A+M, etc. are bold. They've seen enough in Buzz Williams in 3 years to risk their reputations on him. Given the college basketball landscape today, caution gets you bupkus.

Did you not just validate cautious concerns with your examples?  MU elevated an assistant, Buzz Williams to the head coaching spot.  UCLA did the same thing with Steve Lavin and was run out of town.  UMASS did the same thing with Bruiser Flint, who was run out of town.  Were UCLA and UMASS bold?

Your McKillop reference is odd as well.  Are you someone that can see the future and understands how McKillop would have done?  All we know is McKillop has been exceptional at Davidson as stayed there.

Both you and Chico are right on this, that's the funny part.  It was a risky hire (Chico) and it was also bold (Lenny).  Though to be fair, my suspicions are that you also think it was a risky hire and Chico also believes it was bold.  The fact of the matter is that you will be able to perp walk coaches that have made it under your bold scenario and he will equally be able to trump out those that didn't.

The JUCO stuff bothers me as well.  Must make me a bad person.    

[Hoopaloop]

Indiana will be fine.  Anyone not paying attention to what they have coming in and claiming otherwise simply hates Tom Crean has not one rational bone in their body. Unfortunately, there are many of you that fit that bill here.

[Jay Bee]

I'm assuming you're talking about I4. If year 4 ain't gonna be pretty, why did Lunardi have Indiana in the his first NCAA bracket for 2011?

Some dork put them in a bracket 10 months before a bracket will be decided on?  Big deal.

They don't have much coming in - if you check my post from two weeks ago, I went over my thoughts on the 2012, which is the first one that could make a difference on day 1 of their arrival.  Cody as a freshman isn't enough in 2011.  BTW, shortly after the post below, Scout released an update to their 2012 rankings.. and got sorted things more appropriately (in my view... consistent with what I was saying below).

Anyway, if folks want to put their money where their mouth is, I'm game for some "Indiana will/will not make the tourney in 2011-12" action (although even sneaking into the tourney in year 4 doesn't seem all that impressive for I4).

2012 through 2014 is where it looks good.  This year is just a couple of traditional players in Zeller (will be very good eventually) and Etherington (tall traditional that can shoot from distance).  The recent commit for 2011 (Abell) quit on Bradley recently.  Nothing too exciting though.

Their 2012 class is impressive:
Peter Jurkin is a 7-footer.  Not great, but tall and a good name.
Ferrell - Sometimes he looks very good.. but he's a little guy.. well under 6 feet.. point guard... I don't think he'll be that amazing on day 1, although many think of him as a '5-star' kid.  Not I.
Patterson is good, not great.   Could turn into a very good player.  Settles a lot, although he's not close to an elite shooter.  Can do multiple things though.. solid overall, not great.  Could be pretty good, but I'm not sold.
Hollowell... good size at about 6'6".. I was about 15 feet away from him when he busted open his chin (actually it wasn't THAT bad.. just a little gash) and hurt his wrist at a tourney.. that was ugly.. sometimes doesn't do a lot.. then all of a sudden he'll come on and it can get amazing.  Can get to the hole and can also knock it down from deep.  First couple of times I saw him in person I was unimpressed.. he just wasn't doing jack and missing some shots, looked a little disinterested.. but since those first couple of times, I've seen him do some amazing things.  If he puts it all together, look out.
Hanner Perea... I'm sold.  He's a man.  He'll continue to get better at rebounding and the offense will come around.. but, he's already a specimen... mean dude out on the court, physical, athletic, can erase shots.. looking forward to Dawson and him going up for the same ball off the glass in Big Ten play. "

[ChicosBailBonds]

5 years, at a minimum, will be your rule for your favorite dude, right?  Year 4 ain't gonna be pretty. 

Won't be 5 years and year 4 should be rather decent if they can finally get a year without major injuries to their players.  We'll see what happens.  Big Ten loses a lot this year.  I expect them to finish in the top 7 or 8.  Top 7 probably gets them a NCAA berth.  8th is probably a NIT.  Of course I can't predict injuries and that's been a big bugaboo for the.

I'm sure you realize he took over a program with one player that logged a total of 27 minutes...that's a bit different than stepping into a situation with three guys that would play in the NBA on the squad. 

[mviale]

No, but I'd say the pieces are falling into place for them to make a postseason tournament next year, which is progress. When Sampson left them in ruins, I think they expected a long rebuilding process. Return to the postseason next year, even just the NIT, and then capitalize on the 7 five-star recruits that have either signed or given verbal commitments over the next 4 years and Indiana should be right back on track.

Love or hate Crean, he has been able to recruit the level of players he never got at Marquette. However Buzz is showing promise in being able to recruit those types of players to Marquette, so I'm satisfied with that

I believe Crean could have recruited better at MU, but everyone knew he was looking at MU as a stepping stone.  This is why we were constantly out recruited by lower tier schools.

[tower912]

I believe that Crean recruited to the absolute best of his abilities at Marquette, as he is at IU.  IU has greater name cache (thank you, Bobby Knight) and one huge advantage.   The difference is that Indiana high schools produce a lot more high level recruits than Wisconsin high schools.    Crean is doing a good job of keeping the kids home, which, realistically, (if he can coach them) is all he really needs to do to get that team near the top of the Big 1?.

[Pakuni]

No, but I'd say the pieces are falling into place for them to make a postseason tournament next year, which is progress.

Yes, it's progress. But almost anything would have qualified as progress. 10th place next year would be progress. Four conference wins would be progress.
But I think if you took Mr. Peabody's Wayback Machine back to the spring of 2008 and polled the Indiana faithful whether they'd be satisfied with that kind of progress - or even an NIT bid - in year four of Tom Crean's tenure, I suspect most would say no. Other elite programs who've been hit with similar or even worse NCAA sanctions - i.e. Kentucky, post-Sutton, Kansas, post-Brown -  rebounded much more quickly. Whether that's a reflection of Crean, the unique circumstances at Indiana or something else, I don't know. I4 isn't the first top program to be nailed with heavy sanctions (and really, there weren't all that bad compared to some others) but their recovery seems to be taking longer than most.

Anyhow, it wasn't my intent to turn this into a debate of how well or how poorly TC is performing at I4. I just meant to point out that nobody should gauge a team's 2011-12 prospects by where Lunardi has them in early May. That's reasonable, don't you think?

[Jay Bee]

The difference is that Indiana Elite AAU high schools produces a lot more high level recruits than Wisconsin high schools.    Crean is doing a good job of getting keeping the Indiana Elite kids home, which, realistically, (if he can coach them) is all he really needs to do to get that team near the top of the Big 1?.

Yes, if it gets to the end of 2013 and the kids who have verbally indicated they will attend I4 actually do, I doubt as many people will continue cheering for their coach if they finish in the bottom half of the Big 10/11/12.

[Goose]

I think TC is far better suited to recruit kids to IU than MU. Buzz sells himself and TC sells a program, IU. I have little doubt that he ultimately will take IU to elite status again. Their are horses for courses and in mind TC needs a perfect fit. Buzz would recruit well if he was MU or any school he worked at.

[brewcity77]

I just meant to point out that nobody should gauge a team's 2011-12 prospects by where Lunardi has them in early May. That's reasonable, don't you think?

I was all ready to discuss, but yeah...not really the topic. That's reasonable. I feel they've made progress, not sure the faithful would be happy, but that doesn't mean management isn't. Regardless, if they're patient, they should get there, but it's still a long road to hoe.