Does Ewill's Transfer Mean Buzz MUST sign a player by May 18?

[Tugg Speedman]

correct me if I'm wrong ....

Ewill's transfer means we have 11 schollie players for next year.  We only have two "bigs" and Outle has missed big chunks of two seasons (one causing a redshirt).

Do you think it is a risk to only have 11 players next season?  The risk is injury makes us thin (especially when the conference season starts in January and the inevitable flu bug is going around).

The spring signing season ends May18.  Is it not critical that Buzz sign a player, or two, before this date?  Should it be another big body as an emergency backup (Juco)?

[mikem91288]

I think the answer is yes. Someone needs to be locked up by the 18th. Even if its a big man that's a project, hopefully not as green as Mbao.

Also, this begs the question - Does Singleton get a schollie now? I don't think the "absolutely not" argument for Dave holds anymore. It's got to be a conversation that's being had over at the Al in my opinion.

[jsglow]

We will replace EWill by mid May.  No disrespect intended; but another 6' 8" plus is necessary.

[Jay Bee]

correct me if I'm wrong ....

Outle has missed big chunks of two seasons (one causing a redshirt).

The spring signing season ends May18.  Is it not critical that Buzz sign a player, or two, before this date?

OK.  It's Otule and he has never redshirted.  Redshirting can occur under certain circumstances when you do not play at all.  Not the case with him.

Also, the spring signing has nothing to do with whether or not we can have a kid on scholarship next year.  That is strictly related to the National Letter of Intent program.  The May 18 date is mostly irrelevant at this point in time.  We can bring somebody in in August if we want.

[brewcity77]

I'll be curious to see how Buzz reacts to this. I was hoping for Olu Ashaolu, but it is sounding more likely that he will stay in the draft after the latest draft camp. Chris Bryant may be our best option, though he clearly will need to add 20-30 pounds of muscle before he can have a hope of defending in the post at this level.

Another option is Isaiah Philmore, who was originally a 2009 that Marquette offered. He's transferring from Towson after averaging 15 ppg and 7 rpg. The drawback is that he'd have to sit out a season. Philmore is a 6'8", 230-lb player that was a borderline 3-4 star when he came out. He'd be a nice option in lieu of guys like Murray and Ashaolu, but he won't help our depth problems in 2011-12.

We'll be fine if we stay healthy, but if we only have 11 scholarship players, we could very well be two injuries away from disaster.

[jsglow]

OK.  It's Otule and he has never redshirted.  Redshirting can occur under certain circumstances when you do not play at all.  Not the case with him.

Also, the spring signing has nothing to do with whether or not we can have a kid on scholarship next year.  That is strictly related to the National Letter of Intent program.  The May 18 date is mostly irrelevant at this point in time.  We can bring somebody in in August if we want.

While you are correct about summer signings, Chris did redshirt in 2009-10.  I believe it was a medical after his foot injury.  You'll recall that he played a handful of non-con games in November '09.

[brewcity77]

While you are correct about summer signings, Chris did redshirt in 2009-10.  I believe it was a medical after his foot injury.  You'll recall that he played a handful of non-con games in November '09.

Chris never redshirted. He was granted a medical hardship waiver. Similar end result, but not the same thing.

Speaking of which, does anyone know if maybe a redshirt year and a medical hardship waiver are the reason that Tim Abromaitis will be returning with eligibility for his 6th total year at Notre Dame?

[Jay Bee]

While you are correct about summer signings, Chris did redshirt in 2009-10.  I believe it was a medical after his foot injury.  You'll recall that he played a handful of non-con games in November '09.

You'll recall that I said, "Redshirting can occur under certain circumstances when you do not play at all." 

There is no such thing as a medical redshirt.  A redshirt means you didn't play. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

To answer the OP's question, I don't think there's a deadline for the last 2 scholarships. Pretty sure Wilson committed in June last year, but just didn't sign a LOI. It's not necessary to sign one to attend a university on athletic scholarship.

[Jay Bee]

Speaking of which, does anyone know if maybe a redshirt year and a medical hardship waiver are the reason that Tim Abromaitis will be returning with eligibility for his 6th total year at Notre Dame?

Say what?  His 6th year?  I think you've got bad information.

There are numerous examples, though, of "6 year guys"... but, just a redshirt year and a hardship waiver are not enough.  What you need is a Five-Year Rule Waiver.  

[4everwarriors]

Buzz has known about EWill's pending transfer for quite some time and subsequently is covering his ass. The spot will be filled this season, and not used by Singleton.

BeeJay, have you shipped my free samples yet?

[brewcity77]

Say what?  His 6th year?  I think you've got bad information.

There are numerous examples, though, of "6 year guys"... but, just a redshirt year and a hardship waiver are not enough.  What you need is a Five-Year Rule Waiver.  

I don't know the reason, but Abro has already been at ND for 5 years. Yet he'll be back next year (along with both Scott and Martin). He redshirted, played a year, sat out a year, then played 2 years. Looks like total BS, but they're saying he'll be back for aggregate year 6.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I don't know the reason, but Abro has already been at ND for 5 years. Yet he'll be back next year (along with both Scott and Martin). He redshirted, played a year, sat out a year, then played 2 years. Looks like total BS, but they're saying he'll be back for aggregate year 6.

I explained Abro here:  http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=26948.msg304197#msg304197

He did not sit out freshman year, only sophomore.  Five total but perhaps three degrees.  The Doogie Howser of college hoops.

[oldwarrior81]

did anyone catch Valpo's leading scorer and All-Horizon first team player, transfered to Michigan State?

He was a junior that redshirted one season and will be eligible immediately since he already graduated, has eligibility remaining and will enroll in grad school.

Just another of the little seen rules in transferring.
The most recent incident I can think of was a couple years back when the Oregon quarterback left for the SEC.

[Jay Bee]

I don't know the reason, but Abro has already been at ND for 5 years. Yet he'll be back next year (along with both Scott and Martin). He redshirted, played a year, sat out a year, then played 2 years. Looks like total BS, but they're saying he'll be back for aggregate year 6.

You've just got bad info.  He was a 2007 kid.  He didn't even (verbally) commit to ND until late October of 2006.

07-08
08-09
09-10
10-11...4 so far.
11-12...5 years after this coming season.

[NersEllenson]

I'm not sold that Buzz has to go out and sign somebody for the 2011 class.  We are in on a lot of highly regarded 2012 prospects, and the 2012 class has a lot to highly regarded bigs.  I'd personally rather see us sign two kids for 2012.

Last thought, is it not a little comical to be worried about the "depth" of this MU team?  When is the last time we had 2 serviceable big men?  In addition to them, we have 9 other high major type of players.  Having said that, however, I do feel losing E-Will was an overall negative to roster complexion - and felt he was poised to see 15-20 minutes per game next season.

[GGGG]

did anyone catch Valpo's leading scorer and All-Horizon first team player, transfered to Michigan State?

He was a junior that redshirted one season and will be eligible immediately since he already graduated, has eligibility remaining and will enroll in grad school.

Just another of the little seen rules in transferring.
The most recent incident I can think of was a couple years back when the Oregon quarterback left for the SEC.

Yeah, they have to earn their undergraduate degree, and enroll in a graduate program that their current school does not offer in order to get immediate play.  It was a rule put in place to benefit the non-money sports more than anything, but has been exploited more and more.  Greg Paulus playing a year of football after his basketball career at Duke fell under this too.

[monkeyman34]

The backup big for North Carolina, Justin Knox, had the same thing. He graduated from Alabama using only 3 years of eligibility, then played for UNC this past season without sitting out a year, and enrolled in a grad-school program they offered that Alabama didn't offer.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/72893

[wadesworld]

I'm not sold that Buzz has to go out and sign somebody for the 2011 class.  We are in on a lot of highly regarded 2012 prospects, and the 2012 class has a lot to highly regarded bigs.  I'd personally rather see us sign two kids for 2012.

Last thought, is it not a little comical to be worried about the "depth" of this MU team?  When is the last time we had 2 serviceable big men?  In addition to them, we have 9 other high major type of players.  Having said that, however, I do feel losing E-Will was an overall negative to roster complexion - and felt he was poised to see 15-20 minutes per game next season.

Could not disagree with this more.  What happens if, say, Gardner tears an ACL and misses next season?  We all know that O'Tule has trouble staying out of foul trouble.  Crowder, at 6'7", would be asked to play long stretches of center.  I get it, we've seen this in the past.  But where did it get us?  First round exits.  Not to mention, if anybody goes out with a serious injury, and anybody else gets sick for a time, gets a sprained ankle, etc., you are trying to practice with 9 scholarship guys and play with 9 scholarship guys.  Say 1 major contributor gets seriously hurt and another one has to miss a game due to illness.  Your'e down to 9 guys suiting up.  You might be asking your very last man on the team to play 15 minutes depending on foul trouble and matchups.  That would not be good.  You fill all of your scholarships.  Every year.  Transfers happen.  Injuries happen.  Don't leave anything open.

And who's to say that we're going to get any of the 2012 guys we're going after?  Yes, we're on a lot of their lists.  That's because it's still VERY early.  All of these "lists" are 12-20 long.  You cannot pass up on giving a guy a scholarship because we *might* get somebody better a year later.  No way you can say that for sure.  Not to mention, Williams won't be the last transfer, so if we sign 2 more for 2011, would you really be surprised if another 2012 scholarship opened up between now and then?

[94Warrior]

Wadesworld is exactly right.  You play to win in 2011.  Fill every schollie, if at all possible.

If you are always planning for next year, next year never comes.   

[brewcity77]

Could not disagree with this more.  What happens if, say, Gardner tears an ACL and misses next season?  We all know that O'Tule has trouble staying out of foul trouble.  Crowder, at 6'7", would be asked to play long stretches of center.  I get it, we've seen this in the past.  But where did it get us?  First round exits.  Not to mention, if anybody goes out with a serious injury, and anybody else gets sick for a time, gets a sprained ankle, etc., you are trying to practice with 9 scholarship guys and play with 9 scholarship guys.  Say 1 major contributor gets seriously hurt and another one has to miss a game due to illness.  Your'e down to 9 guys suiting up.  You might be asking your very last man on the team to play 15 minutes depending on foul trouble and matchups.  That would not be good.  You fill all of your scholarships.  Every year.  Transfers happen.  Injuries happen.  Don't leave anything open.

And who's to say that we're going to get any of the 2012 guys we're going after?  Yes, we're on a lot of their lists.  That's because it's still VERY early.  All of these "lists" are 12-20 long.  You cannot pass up on giving a guy a scholarship because we *might* get somebody better a year later.  No way you can say that for sure.  Not to mention, Williams won't be the last transfer, so if we sign 2 more for 2011, would you really be surprised if another 2012 scholarship opened up between now and then?

Agreed completely. And what if we bring in a guy who isn't up to snuff? Say we bring in Chris Bryant and he isn't any better than Mbao? Well, first you make it clear that they have to earn their scholarship every year (something I'm sure Mbao was told) and if they don't, they are given the option to transfer or stay as a walk-on.

People may not like that being the reality, but it is what it is. We're a better team with guys like Roseboro and Mbao gone and better replacements brought in. And there's no harm in bringing in another prospect to see if he pans out (like Butler and Gardner did) and having him move along if he doesn't (like Roseboro and Mbao did).

[MUcookie30]

If you are always planning for next year, next year never comes.   

+1

[Tulsa Warrior]

A reality of the times in college basketball is roster turnover.  It happens for a whole bunch of reasons.  The message college coaches have to give is "here's a college scholarship....you have to continue to earn it in the classroom and on the team."  I have no problem with what is happening at Marquette it's pretty average in D1 ball.  

The bottom line is players are making academic progress.  Those leaving are in good standing that way.  The players staying are graduating and the team is making the NCAA Tournament.

The only major curveball during Buzz's time as head coach was Mbakwe's departure.  (Mbakwe was a Crean legacy, a good player with major baggage.)  He F$#@! his fellow players, the coaching staff and the school.  That said stuff happens.  Every other transition at Marquetteallowed the players and Marquette to regroup quickly.

[NersEllenson]

Got to diasgree with you guys (Brew, 94, Wadesworld)

1) If MU gets in the game of telling players their scholarship is a one year renewable type of thing - that will not bode well for perception, nor reality in the recruiting game down the road.  People here have enough issues with the transfers - and the whole Newbill fiasco had virtually everyone up in the air.  But now we want to suggest we can practically cut a guy like Chris Bryant - if he doesn't perform from Day 1???

2) Signing a guy like Chris Bryant is NOT going to replace or make up for a Devante Gardner or Chris Otule going down with an ACL or whatever.  He would not assume those minutes...he's not an in the door ready to play type of prospect - but a player like Alex Poythress in 2012 class likely comes in ready to play almost from Day 1.

3) There is no prospect MU is currently in on to my knowledge that is considered anything more than a middle of the road 3-star for 2011.  Why bring in project type of player, when you are on the lists of about 20 Top 100 2012 kids?  

4) Buzz has more equity in the recruiting game for 2012 - as he can drill the fact he took last year's MU team to the Sweet 16 in just his 3rd year.  Most likely, he'll accomplish a similar result for next season's team  MU is only going to become a more attractive destination with the continued success (and Jimmy Butler probably gets drafted this summer)  This leads me to believe we will land 2 of the 20 Top 100 kids we are in on for 2012.

[SaveOD238]

We need to sign another player, but it doesn't have to be in May.  Buzz has had success with JUCOs who came out of nowhere in the past, so I have faith he will find someone.  Having only 11 scholarship players (plus singleton makes 12) can turn bad really quick.  A good example of how short rosters can hurt a team was the MU women's team this year.  Two transfers leaving (Jones and Pachko) and injuries (Mellen and Young) left Terri Mitchell with 9 healthy players which, as was mentioned with the 09-10 men, isn't enough to even practice 5 on 5.  If someone bolts right before the season (a la Mbakwe), doesn't pan out (a la Roseboro) or gets hurt the roster could get really short really quick.  One more signee would get us to 13 total players, which gives a 3 man cushion before we face a roster which cant even field a full 5 on 5 scrimmage in practice. 

Of course, both the 10-11 women and 09-10 men outperformed expectations with short rosters, so I might be entirely mistaken.