[Rosiak's Blog] Details released on Blue assault case

[jesmu84]

2 thoughts:

1. How does a Marquette student not know who Vander is? Does he not follow the basketball team at all? Sorry for the assumption, but I feel like you absolutely know who is on the basketball team if you go to school at Marquette

2. Most importantly, anyone know what they ordered? Maybe Vander was just pointing out how much of a nancy the guy was for ordering the burrito bowl... man up, get the regular burrito with the tortilla and burn off the extra calories at the gym!

[NersEllenson]

At what point does IamEagle not realize that he's outnumbered about 30-2 in this thread??  You sir, need to retire your argument on this debate/thread...

[NYWarrior]

At what point does IamEagle not realize that he's outnumbered about 30-2 in this thread??  You sir, need to retire your argument on this debate/thread...

[HouWarrior]

At what point does IamEagle not realize that he's outnumbered about 30-2 in this thread??  You sir, need to retire your argument on this debate/thread...

The black knight never gives up, even after losing both arms and legs--its just a flesh wound--Monty Python
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4&feature=related

[Windyplayer]

concept of mutual combatants

Is that a legal term? Because I'm pretty sure that in this situation it's assault or battery one way or another.

[Pakuni]

Is that a legal term? Because I'm pretty sure that in this situation it's assault or battery one way or another.

Yes, it's a legal concept that essentially says that if two people agree to engage in a fight one should not be held criminally or civilly liable ... at least so long as the fight continues voluntarily. If one guys cries "uncle" and the other continues to fight, then it's an assault/battery.

[Rubie Q]

Yes, it's a legal concept that essentially says that if two people agree to engage in a fight one should not be held criminally or civilly liable ... at least so long as the fight continues voluntarily. If one guys cries "uncle" and the other continues to fight, then it's an assault/battery.

Pakuni's right. One of the elements of a battery is that the victim didn't consent to the contact. If you agree to fight, you've consented to the contact.

[MUBurrow]

Yes, it's a legal concept that essentially says that if two people agree to engage in a fight one should not be held criminally or civilly liable ... at least so long as the fight continues voluntarily. If one guys cries "uncle" and the other continues to fight, then it's an assault/battery.

sounds like hockey, like when the ref skates in once a player hits the ground

[SaintPaulWarrior]

They are the linesman and for the most part are huge, the tiny refs very rarely get involved.  You are right though....they do wait till they hit the ground.  Must be in their contract or something.

[sgurgs]

The "mutual combatants defense" probably explains why the DA offered to lower the charge to disorderly conduct.  You still can't fight whoever and wherever you want just because you both agree to it.   

Since this is the thread of speculation, I'll speculate on Boyle's strategy here.  In some ways, regardless of the outcome of the trial, wouldn't it have just been better to accept the disorderly conduct offer and get this thing out of the media?  To me, the real damage here isn't the charge (a citation, which seems harmless enough), but the constant juxtaposition of a Marquette basketball player with some sort of misconduct.  As was mentioned earlier, it's hard to "just talk about basketball" with this sort of cloud hanging over Blue and the program, a cloud that will hang there at least until June.

[ChicosBailBonds]

One thing is for sure, the chants of

VANDER ORANGE

are going to echo at the Kohl Center next year and a number of other venues. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

You can conclude whatever you want based on my post number and tone. I'm comfortable formulating an opinion on you judging by "I am probably smarter than you" and "I am a better fan than you". Has there been a more obvious case of douche-baggary?

Gotta agree with eagle here. I've never seen a bigger loser post that "lancesOtherNut" claiming he's smarter than eagle. What a total boob

[mugrad99]

One thing is for sure, the chants of

VANDER ORANGE

are going to echo at the Kohl Center next year and a number of other venues. 

The kid should have been punched just for coming up with such a lame insult. What did Vander say back?....."It's Vander Blue, and you are going to be Black and Blue"

[TheDOC816]

Vander is just a tool.  Every time I've interacted with him on campus he think's he is God's gift to earth, can do whatever he wants and if you don't like it then he's gonna let you know.  The lie about the racial slur just make things look like him trying to worm out of something he did by saying he was provoked.

[Tugg Speedman]

* Yesterday WISN did a live Stand-up in front of the Quoba where Vander's incident took place.  
* Roisak's blog has three separate threads about Vander's incident just yesterday.
* We have hundreds of posts about this here in the last few days.

It seems like most people learned about Vander's charges yesterday.

My take is the only reason this is such a big deal is because it is coming in the wake of the sexual harassment and assault allegations as Humphrey.  Without these allegation the Vander story is a non-story.

I first knew about this before Christmas.  Vander's Milwaukee Court post has been online since November.  Many others here knew about it. No one said anything or posted anything (including me).

I think we were all trying to protect Vander which is why their was zero discussion of this until a few weeks ago.  No one wanted to post it, ask Rosiak, Buzz or Gerry Boyle about it.  He was the star recruit and we wanted to just go away.  

In hindsight was this a big mistake?  Should we have had our three hundred posts and hand-wringing about this last November, before the season started, instead of now?  It would have been better for Vander as now his charges always seen to be mentioned in the same breath as what happened at Humphrey, as if he was involved in all these incidents.  

Would have it been better for Buzz as no one can see any punishment that was handed out.  If you want to say that Buzz was afraid to punish the star, right now it is hard to say that is an incorrect perception.  If it was a story last fall, Buzz would have been asked that question and forced to give a response.

Maybe the best thing we can do in the future is not sit on stories like this for months.  If its public record, it is going to become known to everyone.  So get it out ASAP and let the post fly, the hyperbole be said and misunderstands get made.  Then it quietly goes away.  Then, months later, we he goes to court, we don't act like act like it is the "third incident in a month."

Hopefully I'm getting my point across.

Thoughts?

[bilsu]

Since the other participant apparently never threw a punch, did he really agree to fight. Assuming he wants to carry this through, why would he not testify that he thought it was a joke and he did not really think there would be a fight. It would be his word against Vander's and right now Vander's word is not worth much. The thing that turned me off on this is Vander saying he did not throw a punch his arm just came out when he was pushing him. (Sounds like the stuff they say to refs, when an altercation occurs on the basketball court)Come on' Pushing him into a window is just as bad or not worse. He attacked him plain and simple. He should of taken the plea bargain and it would of been over with and soon forgotten. Not taking the plea bargain smells of arrogance and stupidity. I doubt that Boyle advised him to turn the plea bargain down, but Boyle will defend him no matter what and certainly will not publically state that Blue should of taken the plea bargain.

[Hards Alumni]

Since the other participant apparently never threw a punch, did he really agree to fight. Assuming he wants to carry this through, why would he not testify that he thought it was a joke and he did not really think there would be a fight. It would be his word against Vander's and right now Vander's word is not worth much. The thing that turned me off on this is Vander saying he did not throw a punch his arm just came out when he was pushing him. (Sounds like the stuff they say to refs, when an altercation occurs on the basketball court)Come on' Pushing him into a window is just as bad or not worse. He attacked him plain and simple. He should of taken the plea bargain and it would of been over with and soon forgotten. Not taking the plea bargain smells of arrogance and stupidity. I doubt that Boyle advised him to turn the plea bargain down, but Boyle will defend him no matter what and certainly will not publically state that Blue should of taken the plea bargain.

He would have to be a total fool to take a plea bargain on something as frivolous as this.

[Skatastrophy]

He would have to be a total fool to take a plea bargain on something as frivolous as this.

Why's that?  I always take the plea so that I don't have to spend any more time in court.

Having a disturbing the peace on your record is no biggie.

[Hards Alumni]

Why's that?  I always take the plea so that I don't have to spend any more time in court.

Having a disturbing the peace on your record is no biggie.

Maybe not, but if you didn't do what you are being charged with, you would just take the plea?

Clearly the kid wanted to step outside, and then got his ass popped.

and now he is crying like a pansy to the cops.

boo hoo... cry me a god damn river.

Once he agreed to step outside, and then STEPPED OUTSIDE he became a mutual combatant.

He lost the little scuffle and now he is all butt hurt about it.

[Skatastrophy]

Maybe not, but if you didn't do what you are being charged with, you would just take the plea?

I usually do.  The less I have to deal with the court system the better.  Especially over a couple hundred dollars and some he-said-he-said.

Clearly the kid wanted to step outside, and then got his ass popped.

and now he is crying like a pansy to the cops.

boo hoo... cry me a god damn river.

Once he agreed to step outside, and then STEPPED OUTSIDE he became a mutual combatant.

He lost the little scuffle and now he is all butt hurt about it.

+1

[JWags85]

Vander is just a tool.  Every time I've interacted with him on campus he think's he is God's gift to earth, can do whatever he wants and if you don't like it then he's gonna let you know.  The lie about the racial slur just make things look like him trying to worm out of something he did by saying he was provoked.

I take it you've never met another athlete before, much less one who was told he was the greatest thing ever in HS.  Not saying its right, but Vander is hardly alone and when people complain about this (happened all the time with football players I went to college with), they just come off as bitter and jealous.

[MUMac]

Since the other participant apparently never threw a punch, did he really agree to fight. Assuming he wants to carry this through, why would he not testify that he thought it was a joke and he did not really think there would be a fight. It would be his word against Vander's and right now Vander's word is not worth much. The thing that turned me off on this is Vander saying he did not throw a punch his arm just came out when he was pushing him. (Sounds like the stuff they say to refs, when an altercation occurs on the basketball court)Come on' Pushing him into a window is just as bad or not worse. He attacked him plain and simple. He should of taken the plea bargain and it would of been over with and soon forgotten. Not taking the plea bargain smells of arrogance and stupidity. I doubt that Boyle advised him to turn the plea bargain down, but Boyle will defend him no matter what and certainly will not publically state that Blue should of taken the plea bargain.

So it is bad for Vander to "distort" the intent but you think it is only appropriate for the other guy?   

[Litehouse]

* Yesterday WISN did a live Stand-up in front of the Quoba where Vander's incident took place.  
* Roisak's blog has three separate threads about Vander's incident just yesterday.
* We have hundreds of posts about this here in the last few days.

This is why I think it's a mistake to go to trial and not take the disorderly plea.  Now we'll have another round of TV reports outside the courthouse, Qdoba, Humphrey Hall, and the AL talking about Vander being on trial for Assault and Battery.  They won't mention it's a municipal citation and not criminal charges and the general public won't care, and all the reports will mention the onging sexual assault investigations.  There will be multiple newspaper articles, and hundreds more message board posts and blog entries beyond just the MU boards.  I think paying the $175 fine for disorderly conduct would be money well spent to avoid bringing all this continued negative attention to Marquette.

[GGGG]

I take it you've never met another athlete before, much less one who was told he was the greatest thing ever in HS.  Not saying its right, but Vander is hardly alone and when people complain about this (happened all the time with football players I went to college with), they just come off as bitter and jealous.

If today's bball players are like the ones when I was MU, they generally have a bit of a "I am big time" attitude, but are by and large good guys trying to live life under a microscope.

This group is undoubtedly better at basketball than the group I went to school with though.

[Rubie Q]

This is why I think it's a mistake to go to trial and not take the disorderly plea.  Now we'll have another round of TV reports outside the courthouse, Qdoba, Humphrey Hall, and the AL talking about Vander being on trial for Assault and Battery.  They won't mention it's a municipal citation and not criminal charges and the general public won't care, and all the reports will mention the onging sexual assault investigations.  There will be multiple newspaper articles, and hundreds more message board posts and blog entries beyond just the MU boards.  I think paying the $175 fine for disorderly conduct would be money well spent to avoid bringing all this continued negative attention to Marquette.

Eh.  It's a horse a piece, I think: the people who are looking to trash Vander and/or Marquette would continue to bring this up (and fail to mention it was just a municipal citation) even if he took the plea for the DC ticket.  Hell, I think that will be the case even if the complaining witness doesn't show up for the trial and the City has to dismiss it.