Butler to the Bobcats

[ChicosBailBonds]

College football also has minor rules differences from the pro game. Nitpicking instead of admitting that the games are still essentially the same is silly.

Ah, that's the key...MINOR rule differences.  The college football game and the pro football game are very close and just got even closer with the rules changes announced on Thursday.

The rules different in college and pro basketball are not minor at all.  I couldn't have said it better myself, thanks for the assist....not nitpicking at all.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You seem to be both disputing and validating Chico's point. If players can't go all-out every minute of every game, then by definition they aren't relentless.

I think you're completely accurate and make a fair point that players can't go all out for every minute of every game over the course of an 82 to 100+ game season.

But the result of those players pacing themselves is that is that many games wind up being exactly as Chicos described--"attrocious basketball for the first 3+ periods and then they start to play basketball at the end of the game and in the playoffs."

Exactly...you see, it's "Relentless" when they decide to play it.  LOL.  It's RELENTLESS in the playoffs and in the 4th quarter of games, but as Sultan, Pakuni and others have stated....it would be crazy for them to play like that all the time.  Which is exactly what I'm saying, they lolligag so much in their "pacing" and NON RELENTLESS play that it's a major turnoff.

[Lennys Tap]

Ah, that's the key...MINOR rule differences.  The college football game and the pro football game are very close and just got even closer with the rules changes announced on Thursday.

The rules different in college and pro basketball are not minor at all.  I couldn't have said it better myself, thanks for the assist....not nitpicking at all.

Sorry, but you missed the point. Both have minor differences, but essentially football is football and basketball is basketball. If you're really arguing that college basketball is somehow "better" because of, say, a 10 second violation rather than an 8 second one (and other such nitpicking) is beyond silly.

[brewcity77]

This'll be shut in no time 

So, to try to get this back on topic...I personally think Butler would fit in great in Chicago. They have a vast need at the 2, somewhere Butler could play and excel at as a defender. They don't need points there, lord knows they don't get any from Bogans, so if he could just chip in 5-7 ppg and defend well he'd be good.

Any other thoughts on ideal fits? I think much of Wes' success came as much from his tenacity as it did the ideal situation in Utah. What other teams could help springboard Butler to similar success at the next level?

[Hoopaloop]

I hope Butler goes in the NBA draft, but it would not be surprising to have him on the outside looking in from a draft perspective.  Not the worst thing in the world either, as he can pick a team that makes the most sense for his capabilities and a player needs.

Agree with Chico that the NBA game is mostly cruise fest until the 4th quarter.  We don't even bother watching until the 4th quarter as the rest is silly.  For hockey, the entire game the players are pushing hard, checking hard, and putting it all on the line.  Football the same.  You don't see that in the NBA, but you do in college hoops.

Count me as one that enjoys college basketball and the NBA, but finds the NBA game lacking until the playoffs or when they turn it up a notch at the end of a game.  Completely agree with that perspective.

[Hoopaloop]

This'll be shut in no time 

So, to try to get this back on topic...I personally think Butler would fit in great in Chicago. They have a vast need at the 2, somewhere Butler could play and excel at as a defender. They don't need points there, lord knows they don't get any from Bogans, so if he could just chip in 5-7 ppg and defend well he'd be good.

Any other thoughts on ideal fits? I think much of Wes' success came as much from his tenacity as it did the ideal situation in Utah. What other teams could help springboard Butler to similar success at the next level?

Cleveland Cavs, Washington Wizards, Knicks, any number of teams that need bodies and players that care.  Too many guys out there in the NBA going through the motions.

[NersEllenson]

I hope Butler goes in the NBA draft, but it would not be surprising to have him on the outside looking in from a draft perspective.  Not the worst thing in the world either, as he can pick a team that makes the most sense for his capabilities and a player needs.

Agree with Chico that the NBA game is mostly cruise fest until the 4th quarter.  We don't even bother watching until the 4th quarter as the rest is silly.  For hockey, the entire game the players are pushing hard, checking hard, and putting it all on the line.  Football the same.  You don't see that in the NBA, but you do in college hoops.

Count me as one that enjoys college basketball and the NBA, but finds the NBA game lacking until the playoffs or when they turn it up a notch at the end of a game.  Completely agree with that perspective.

Butler will get drafted - I'd put that at a 98% probability.  Think he could be a late first, at worst mid-2nd round pick.  He's too versatile, too good of defender, too efficent, and has too good of character/work ethic to not make it.  Jimmy compares very favorably to Wes.  Buzz will tell pro scouts as much.  Teams won't snoozxe on Jimmy.

As far as NBA ball - yes they may not go all out every minute of every game - but the physicality of the NBA is far beyond college ball.  Go to an NBA game, sit up close/courtside - and I think you'd see they play harder than a casual fan might think.  I prefer college ball, but I've gone to some NBA games this year and sat within the first 4 rows - and it blew my mind how physical and hard they play..and it just gets stepped up in the 4th quarter of games..

[ChicosBailBonds]

So I took the advice of some of you guys and watch the Lakers game today...pathetic.

I think ESPN's writeup was perfect..."Kobe Bryant scored 34 points for the Lakers, who opened the postseason with the same halfhearted effort that comprised much of their regular season after three straight exhausting trips to the NBA finals."

Maybe they didn't realize it was the playoffs, but that same lolligagging nonsense that I've seen way too much apparently ESPN saw as well.  Go figure.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nothing infuriates you more? Really? Seriously? I don't think this would even register a minor blip on most people's "infuriation meter".

Yeah, probably having an assistant video coordinator hired from a team that has been associated with the college program for close to 40 years would be higher for some folks here on the infuriation meter...I missed that one. 

[Lennys Tap]

Yeah, probably having an assistant video coordinator hired from a team that has been associated with the college program for close to 40 years would be higher for some folks here on the infuriation meter...I missed that one. 

Actually, Indiana U bribing an AAU basketball coach or director doesn't even make my top 200 list of most infurating things in the world. Paying $75 to watch NBA players mail it in doesn't make my top 10,000. Curious that such a trivial thing could cause you such outrage. Did world hunger at least finish second?

[🏀]

So I took the advice of some of you guys and watch the Lakers game today...pathetic.

I think ESPN's writeup was perfect..."Kobe Bryant scored 34 points for the Lakers, who opened the postseason with the same halfhearted effort that comprised much of their regular season after three straight exhausting trips to the NBA finals."

Maybe they didn't realize it was the playoffs, but that same lolligagging nonsense that I've seen way too much apparently ESPN saw as well.  Go figure.

Best part was Kobe's 'halfhearted effort' was still better than any NCAA player will accomplish in the NBA. Even better part is that Kobe's 'halfhearted effort' was so good, he didn't have to bother with playing in the NCAA.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Best part was Kobe's 'halfhearted effort' was still better than any NCAA player will accomplish in the NBA. Even better part is that Kobe's 'halfhearted effort' was so good, he didn't have to bother with playing in the NCAA.

Kobe didn't have a halfhearted effort, you might want to re-read the story.  The Lakers did, not Kobe.  That's what the comma is for after the "Lakers" in the sentence.

Secondly, you continue to make the same mistake others are making, but don't let me stop you.  No one has said NCAA players are better than NBA...NO ONE, yet you and others keep going down this path as if that's the argument.  Please, continue to have that argument with yourself because no one else is playing in that sandbox.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually, Indiana U bribing an AAU basketball coach or director doesn't even make my top 200 list of most infuriating things in the world. Paying $75 to watch NBA players mail it in doesn't make my top 10,000. Curious that such a trivial thing could cause you such outrage. Did world hunger at least finish second?

Bernie Madoff's options fixing scheme ranks very high on the infuriation list for me.  As does a lot of the BS that's played on Wall Street with derivatives, etc, that have put much of our economy on the brink.  Care to weigh in on that discussion?

[Pakuni]

nm

[jtrash37]

Par for the course...another Chicos vs. the world thread.   

[reinko]

Turn on the Celtics v. Knicks and tell me the same thing CBB.  Also, take in a few minutes of the OKC/Nugs game.  Might change your mind.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Turn on the Celtics v. Knicks and tell me the same thing CBB.  Also, take in a few minutes of the OKC/Nugs game.  Might change your mind.

Of course, it's the playoffs, this is "trying time"   

But I also saw the World Champion Lakers play today and ESPN came up with the same viewpoint I did..."half hearted".  As did the LA Times already in their afternoon blog.

I'm sure the NBA is wonderful, I have no doubt there are people tossing their salads over it.  No thanks, I'll stick to the NHL where they try EVERY GAME all season long in EVERY period, not just the playoffs.  I prefer college hoops as well.  Let me know who wins the dramatic NBA title...I wonder who the NBA scripts as the winner this year from the office of David Stern.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I don't hate the NBA, but I'm with Chicos. I'd take College Basketball any day of the week. By the way, I watched the Celtics/Knicks game. If you ask me, both teams suck. If they win the series, Boston's going to get worked by Miami. I think whoever wins the 2nd round matchup between the Bulls and (I still think) Magic is going to the Finals.

Also, Kobe had 34 and it's likely it was  large reason they lost. His teammates can't stand playing with the horse's ass. Even his coach can't stand him. He has no concept of team basketball. The fact that he was named Finals MVP last year should seriously be investigated after the horrible series he had.

[Lennys Tap]

Bernie Madoff's options fixing scheme ranks very high on the infuriation list for me.  As does a lot of the BS that's played on Wall Street with derivatives, etc, that have put much of our economy on the brink.  Care to weigh in on that discussion?

Sure. First, what do you mean by "Bernie Madoff's options fixing scheme"? Madoff ran your basic Ponzi scheme, reporting fictitious profits from fictitious trades. What that has to do with the trading options or fixing them escapes me. Second, the reason derivatives were able to play a part in the economic meltdown was because they were traded in back rooms, solely by and for the benefit of  "big banks" (Goldman, Morgan, etc). With no transparent market to to reasonably assess, price and absorb the risks, the greedy and stupid banks were toast when the real estate market tanked.

This is not the first time you've asked me to "weigh in" on this subject, always with a smug and accusatory tone. You seem to want to suggest that because I spent years openly and honestly trading listed stock and index options on the CBOE  that I'm somehow tainted by a thief like Madoff or the backroom machinations of a firm like Goldman Sachs. That would be as ignorant and bigoted as it is false.

[SoCalwarrior]

There, he weighed in for you Chicos. Now, if you want to respond, do so with a PM and not on a thread about Butler's NBA draft prospects.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I would bet my house, my cars, my 401K, etc, etc that the Lakers win their next game and the free throw differential will be GIGANTIC.  It will be 8 on 5 like you've never seen before.  Any takers?

It might be a close game, but the NBA will make damn sure the Lakers will win.   You don't see that in the NCAA....the refs aren't saying, we better make sure #1 Pitt gets by Butler, but we all know damn well there is NO WAY the Lakers lose on Wednesday night. Not going to happen.  The breathing fouls on the Hornets will be funny to watch.

I hope I'm dead wrong, it would go a long way to winning back a fan of the NBA from decades ago, but I suspect it will be the same old NBA who will continue to make sure the right teams advance.  Conspiracy?  Yeah, probably.  Is it real?  Don't know, maybe Tim Donaghy, Steve Javie, Joey Crawford and the boys can comment.

http://deadspin.com/#!5392067/excerpts-from-the-book-the-nba-doesnt-want-you-to-read

[MerrittsMustache]

Also, Kobe had 34 and it's likely it was  large reason they lost. His teammates can't stand playing with the horse's ass. Even his coach can't stand him. He has no concept of team basketball. The fact that he was named Finals MVP last year should seriously be investigated after the horrible series he had.

+100

Kobe is tremendously talented but has no idea how to actually play basketball. It kills me when people use him as an example of a guy who didn't need to play college basketball. As good as he is, he'd be even better having spent a year learning the game from Coach K.

[jmayer1]

Ah, that's the key...MINOR rule differences.  The college football game and the pro football game are very close and just got even closer with the rules changes announced on Thursday.

The rules different in college and pro basketball are not minor at all.  I couldn't have said it better myself, thanks for the assist....not nitpicking at all.

Haha, this is a laughable statement. Here are a few of the "minor" rule differences between the NFL and NCAA football:

-Possession (1 ft vs 2 feet)
-Player downed (no contact vs contact)
-Different ball placement (hash marks)
-Different overtime rules
-Different penalties (most notably pass interference)
-Different timing (25 sec play clock vs 40 second, wait for ball to be "ready to play" vs no wait)
-PAT placement (3 yd line vs 2 yd line)
-Defensive PAT scoring (legal in college vs none in NFL)
-Different instant replay rules
-NCAA footballs have 2 white stripes
-College has no 2 minute warning

[Pakuni]

Haha, this is a laughable statement. Here are a few of the "minor" rule differences between the NFL and NCAA football:

-Possession (1 ft vs 2 feet)
-Player downed (no contact vs contact)
-Different ball placement (hash marks)
-Different overtime rules
-Different penalties (most notably pass interference)
-Different timing (25 sec play clock vs 40 second, wait for ball to be "ready to play" vs no wait)
-PAT placement (3 yd line vs 2 yd line)
-Defensive PAT scoring (legal in college vs none in NFL)
-Different instant replay rules
-NCAA footballs have 2 white stripes
-College has no 2 minute warning

Also:

- Pass interference is a spot-of-foul penalty in the NFL, a maximum of 15 yards in NCAA
- clock stopped in NCAA after first down, continues to run in the NFL
- turnover on missed FG spotted at spot of kick in NFL, line of scrimmage in college
- College defenses can return a blocked PAT/failed two-point attempt for two points. In the NFL, the ball is ruled dead after a failed PTA/two-point attempt.

Most of these differences are relatively minor, but then again, so are the differences between NCAA basketball and the NBA.
Basketball is basketball and football is football.

[Lennys Tap]

And pro football has a playoff system rather than a computer determining "championship" game participants.

But anyone who claims to like pro football better because there's a 2 minute warning or college basketball better because of a 35 second clock instead of a 24 second one is full of it. Most people's preferences come down to how much they have invested in a team.

The part of me that loves basketball acknowledges that the NBA is the superior product. It has the best players, the best coaches, the best officials - hands down. But I love Marquette way more than I love basketball and Marquette basketball is the face of Marquette University. I'd watch MU vs Centenary over Chicago vs Miami or Duke vs N Carolina. So by default I prefer (and follow) college basketball because it's where Marquette plays. It's not the best basketball. It's not even the best college basketball. I don't care.