Butler to the Bobcats

[reinko]

I believe I still have a shoe to eat if Jimmy gets drafted.

I love Jimmy Butler as much as the next guy, but if he gets drafted I'll eat my shoe.

[Bocephys]

I believe I still have a shoe to eat if Jimmy gets drafted.

I'd watch that on youtube.  Wait, is this you?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad52VmWVMx0

[GGGG]

Who would leuer guard in the

[GGGG]

Who would leuer guard in the NBA?  He is no where big enough to guard a 4 and not quick enough to guard a 3.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Who would leuer guard in the NBA?  He is no where big enough to guard a 4 and not quick enough to guard a 3.

They guard players in the NBA?

[Lennys Tap]

They guard players in the NBA?
[/quote

Better than they guard people anywhere else on the planet. If they didn't Steve Novak would be a star instead of an end of the bench often lookin' for a job guy.

[jmayer1]

They guard players in the NBA?

Not calling you out specifically, but I can't stand when people say this. It clearly shows that they don't ever watch an NBA game. I like college basketball a ton, obviously because of MU, but the NBA is such better basketball.

MCB:WNBA

NBA:MCB

[ChicosBailBonds]

I hate NBA basketball.  Find it attrocious basketball for the first 3+ periods and then they start to play basketball at the end of the game and in the playoffs.  I know some folks love to go ga-ga over that style but no thanks.  Sure, some guys play outstanding defense and give it their all, but way too many guys don't for what they are paid. 

Case in point, Carmelo Anthony.  I'm sure some of you differ, but there are a just away too many players that don't play much defense, nor do they have to because of the 24 second clock.  Way too much one on one basketball.  Brutal to watch....each to his own I guess.  Maybe that's why the teams in the NBA I do like, are defensive oriented but they are few and far between.  I'd also argue the defense today is not as good as it was in the 80's and 90's.

This sums up pretty well where I come from on the issue

http://triadsportsdaily.com/post/3426971707

[HoopsMalone]

I hate NBA basketball.  Find it attrocious basketball for the first 3+ periods and then they start to play basketball at the end of the game and in the playoffs.  I know some folks love to go ga-ga over that style but no thanks.  Sure, some guys play outstanding defense and give it their all, but way too many guys don't for what they are paid. 

Case in point, Carmelo Anthony.  I'm sure some of you differ, but there are a just away too many players that don't play much defense, nor do they have to because of the 24 second clock.  Way too much one on one basketball.  Brutal to watch....each to his own I guess.  Maybe that's why the teams in the NBA I do like, are defensive oriented but they are few and far between.  I'd also argue the defense today is not as good as it was in the 80's and 90's.

This sums up pretty well where I come from on the issue

http://triadsportsdaily.com/post/3426971707

+1

However, I think we are coming out of the McGrady, Iverson (we talkin' about practice), Jermaine O'Neal, Stephon Marbury era of players leading the league.  The Spurs and Lakers got almost all of the titles in that era because they played hard. 

The generation in their prime I think plays pretty hard.  James, Wade, Bosh, Paul, Williams, Amare are all competitive and play pretty hard.  However, I think that they are more focused on being celebrities than winning ultimately.  Anthony like you mention is the biggest example and really is not fun to watch.

The up-coming generation, I think, is a throw back to the 1990s and 1980s.  I see a different level of commitment and courage when I watch Durant, Rose, and Westbrook.  Even Blake Griffin had to be told to back off when he was hustling too much at the end of a game.  I think that this generation of players is making the game more interesting and could bring the NBA back.  The Bulls and Thunder are both a lot of fun to watch and hope that other teams will catch on to that formula.  Nothing but winners on those teams.

[Lennys Tap]

I hate NBA basketball.  Find it attrocious basketball for the first 3+ periods and then they start to play basketball at the end of the game and in the playoffs.  I know some folks love to go ga-ga over that style but no thanks.  Sure, some guys play outstanding defense and give it their all, but way too many guys don't for what they are paid. 

Case in point, Carmelo Anthony.  I'm sure some of you differ, but there are a just away too many players that don't play much defense, nor do they have to because of the 24 second clock.  Way too much one on one basketball.  Brutal to watch....each to his own I guess.  Maybe that's why the teams in the NBA I do like, are defensive oriented but they are few and far between.  I'd also argue the defense today is not as good as it was in the 80's and 90's.

This sums up pretty well where I come from on the issue

http://triadsportsdaily.com/post/3426971707

To each his own on preferences. If a Schaumburg Flyers baseball game is a more enjoyable experience for you than a Cubs or Sox game so be it. Rather watch a Northwestern football games than a Bears game? That's fine too. But don't insult the game. The best basketball, football, baseball, etc is played by the pros. That includes offense, defense, coaching  and anything else you can measure. And it's not close.

[ChicosBailBonds]

+1

However, I think we are coming out of the McGrady, Iverson (we talkin' about practice), Jermaine O'Neal, Stephon Marbury era of players leading the league.  The Spurs and Lakers got almost all of the titles in that era because they played hard. 

The generation in their prime I think plays pretty hard.  James, Wade, Bosh, Paul, Williams, Amare are all competitive and play pretty hard.  However, I think that they are more focused on being celebrities than winning ultimately.  Anthony like you mention is the biggest example and really is not fun to watch.

The up-coming generation, I think, is a throw back to the 1990s and 1980s.  I see a different level of commitment and courage when I watch Durant, Rose, and Westbrook.  Even Blake Griffin had to be told to back off when he was hustling too much at the end of a game.  I think that this generation of players is making the game more interesting and could bring the NBA back.  The Bulls and Thunder are both a lot of fun to watch and hope that other teams will catch on to that formula.  Nothing but winners on those teams.

I hope you are right.  I totally gave up on the league the last decade plus because it was such an abortion to watch.  There are some guys like Griffin, Wade, etc that are fun to watch because they give it their all.  Locally, the Lakers are a cast of misfits where some guys play hard and others are an enigma.  Maybe I'll watch a bit of the playoffs this year but it's going to take a lot to get me interested again in watch that league...the almost certain lockout will not help.

[MUBurrow]

Its interesting to me to compare the women's game to men's basketball generally, and contrast that with the college ball to pro ball comparison.

I don't watch the women's game because it bores the hell out of me. No threat of individual explosion and no "woah" factor. 

Yet on the other hand, I vastly prefer the college game to the NBA. My internal impulse after reading Lennys' response was to say that the best players are in the NBA, but the best team game is college. Clearly thats a bad analysis, because the players make the game, especially when each team only has 5 playing at one time. But that was my initial, striking reaction.
 
Its the same type of debate as to why we should appreciate the women's game. The teamwork, the fundamentals, etc. Yet I give an NBA like response for not being interested.  Then when the NBA comes up, I give the exact same types of arguments that should draw me to the women's game.  Why am I such a hypocrite?

[Lennys Tap]

Its interesting to me to compare the women's game to men's basketball generally, and contrast that with the college ball to pro ball comparison.

I don't watch the women's game because it bores the hell out of me. No threat of individual explosion and no "woah" factor. 

Yet on the other hand, I vastly prefer the college game to the NBA. My internal impulse after reading Lennys' response was to say that the best players are in the NBA, but the best team game is college. Clearly thats a bad analysis, because the players make the game, especially when each team only has 5 playing at one time. But that was my initial, striking reaction.
 
Its the same type of debate as to why we should appreciate the women's game. The teamwork, the fundamentals, etc. Yet I give an NBA like response for not being interested.  Then when the NBA comes up, I give the exact same types of arguments that should draw me to the women's game.  Why am I such a hypocrite?

Maybe the reason you prefer the men's college game is the same as mine - that's where your/my heart (Marquette) is. But let's not kid ourselves about the quality of basketball being played. Did anyone watch the NCAA championship game?  It made a Minnesota Timberwolves/LA Clippers game look like a piece of fine art.

[brewcity77]

Chicos, my advice is to watch the Bulls. Okay, maybe not Boozer, but the rest of the Bulls. Rose, Deng, Noah, Bogans, those guys kill it on the defensive end. And Noah is one of my favorite players to watch (though I fully understand non-Bulls fans hating him) because he gives everything he has on the court and doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks. As a collective unit, they simply live to win, and they understand the importance of playing defense in achieving that goal.

That's why I want Butler to sneak into the first round with one of Chicago's late picks. I think he's a really good fit as a bench player for Thibodeau.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Maybe the reason you prefer the men's college game is the same as mine - that's where your/my heart (Marquette) is. But let's not kid ourselves about the quality of basketball being played. Did anyone watch the NCAA championship game?  It made a Minnesota Timberwolves/LA Clippers game look like a piece of fine art.

Disagree....I prefer a college basketball game that Marquette is not playing in over just about any NBA game.

You like the NBA, a lot of people don't.  Some of it is the smug, arrogant attitude of the players, some of it is watching a guy take 4 steps and never get called for a travel, some of it is watching another player breathe on a star like Kobe and get called for a foul, etc, etc.  Congrats, you like the NBA....I think all of us appreciate how great the athletes are and how refined their skills are, but when you throw in the attitudes, the "star rules", the arrogance, etc....no thanks.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, my advice is to watch the Bulls. Okay, maybe not Boozer, but the rest of the Bulls. Rose, Deng, Noah, Bogans, those guys kill it on the defensive end. And Noah is one of my favorite players to watch (though I fully understand non-Bulls fans hating him) because he gives everything he has on the court and doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks. As a collective unit, they simply live to win, and they understand the importance of playing defense in achieving that goal.

That's why I want Butler to sneak into the first round with one of Chicago's late picks. I think he's a really good fit as a bench player for Thibodeau.

I stopped watching the Bull when Jordan would walk on the floor and his main defender had 4 fouls on him before the first jump ball.  The Jordan Rules (same with the Kobe Rules, etc, etc) make it impossible for me to watch without thinking it's 8 on 5 much of the time.  I get enough of that nonsense here with the Lakers and all the BS treatment they get from the league and refs over the years.  No thanks

[ChicosBailBonds]

To each his own on preferences. If a Schaumburg Flyers baseball game is a more enjoyable experience for you than a Cubs or Sox game so be it. Rather watch a Northwestern football games than a Bears game? That's fine too. But don't insult the game. The best basketball, football, baseball, etc is played by the pros. That includes offense, defense, coaching  and anything else you can measure. And it's not close.

No one said the best athletes and best players aren't in the pros, but don't insult people who prefer the game in a different format....nor throw out OPINION like "it's not even close" in terms of what is more enjoyable, etc.  The NBA game is DIFFERENT than the college game.  Many people don't like the NBA "version" and we can insult the "game" all we want, that doesn't mean we are insulting the ability of the players, coaches, etc.  It's the GAME we object to.

The Pros are Pros, they're supposed to be better individually...that doesn't mean it's more enjoyable to watch or that the "game" is better. It's an opinion.

Did you realize until last year, the last five years of NBA Finals ratings were lower than the NCAA Championship finals?  Seems there are a lot of people out there that prefer one game over another.  The Lakers defeating the Celtics last year got them over the hump but NBA finals ratings have been pretty mediocre.  From 2005 until 2009, the NBA Finals couldn't even get a 10 rating.

In fact, if you want to get into "not even close", you should compare the ratings of the two.  Almost double the tv ratings since 2001 to 2010 in the NCAA Championship vs the NBA Finals.

[brewcity77]

I stopped watching the Bull when Jordan would walk on the floor and his main defender had 4 fouls on him before the first jump ball.  The Jordan Rules (same with the Kobe Rules, etc, etc) make it impossible for me to watch without thinking it's 8 on 5 much of the time.  I get enough of that nonsense here with the Lakers and all the BS treatment they get from the league and refs over the years.  No thanks

You do realize Michael hasn't played for the Bulls in over a decade, right? I'm saying if you want to see the right brand of basketball, watch this current Bulls team. Rose may be getting some star treatment, but it's not to the level of Kobe or MJ or even close. Besides, we see star treatment in the NCAAs as well, so it's not like it's completely foreign regardless.

My guess is in 2-3 years, Rose will get the same calls that all the NBA all-time greats tend to get. They may still play defense, but probably won't have the scrappiness and passion about it that you see from that team today. I really think that this year, and maybe next, the Bulls will be that fun-to-watch lightning-in-a-bottle type team that doesn't come along in the NBA very often. Sort of how the Spurs were back in the day. I say enjoy it while it lasts, because once Miami gets a bench and a point guard, there won't be another hard-working championship team for quite a few years.

[PaintTouches]

Is it okay if I love both?

And I agree with Brew, the Bulls (and Thunder) play great team basketball. It's a different era than the 2000s already.

[🏀]

How is this thread even an argument?

The NBA is the best basketball being played. (Period)

You can enjoy the NCAA more, but you almost have to admit you are watching a inferior product and bad basketball.

I watch way more NCAA than NBA, and I realize there is a far better product being played on a different television station.

[Pakuni]

Maybe the reason you prefer the men's college game is the same as mine - that's where your/my heart (Marquette) is. But let's not kid ourselves about the quality of basketball being played. Did anyone watch the NCAA championship game?  It made a Minnesota Timberwolves/LA Clippers game look like a piece of fine art.

You're absolutely right, Lenny.
I'm not a huge fan of the pro game (too much repetitive pick-and-roll/pick-and-pop, too much time at the foul line), but the quality of the basketball is far superior to the college game. You almost never see the kind of dog games in the NBA playoffs as regularly occurs in the NCAA tournament, most notably this year's final.

And, yes, NBA players will occasionally dog it in the regular season. An 82-game schedule (plus 8 pre-season games) full of meaningless matchups will do that. But NBA playoff games are every bit as intense as any tournament game, and played at a much higher skill level.

If someone prefers the college game, for whatever reason, there's nothing wrong with that. But anyone who claims the college game is better basketball is either kidding themselves or outta their gourd.

[ChicosBailBonds]

How is this thread even an argument?

The NBA is the best basketball being played. (Period)

You can enjoy the NCAA more, but you almost have to admit you are watching a inferior product and bad basketball.

I watch way more NCAA than NBA, and I realize there is a far better product being played on a different television station.

YOUR OPINION

The people voting with their eyeballs (television ratings) are obviously saying something different

This stupid notion of comparing minor league baseball to major league baseball (Lenny's ploy a few posts ago) may have been a new absurdity here, which is saying something.  Minor league baseball and major league baseball are the SAME GAME. Same rules, same everything.  The difference is the talent level, but the bases are still 90 feet, the mound still 60' 6", there are 3 outs, 4 balls \ 3 strikes, 9 innings, etc.  The ball is the same, the bats are the same.

College basketball and NBA basketball are NOT THE SAME GAME so comparing that to baseball analogy is a whopper.  Different 3 point line distance, 24 second shot clock, 4 periods vs 2 halves, 40 minutes total game vs 48, 6 PF vs 5, restricted zone (semi circle) under hoop vs no restricted zone, 10 seconds vs 8 seconds to get across half court line, 16' lane vs 12' lane, jump balls vs non jump balls, and on and on and on.  They are different games.

That is the difference.  It's very easy to like both, or just like one, but rest assured you are choosing to like or dislike two different versions of the game and a lot of people don't care for one version or the other.  I can tell from the business that I'm in that people pay for college basketball subscriptions at a much higher rate than the NBA product.  I can also tell you from a ratings perspective the NCAA finals vs the NBA finals have the edge with the NCAA for most years.

[Pakuni]

I believe I still have a shoe to eat if Jimmy gets drafted.

Well, at least you'll be in good company.
Tulsa Warrior ate a part of his computer (and posted it on youtube) when he claimed he would do so if Dale Layer got the head coaching gig at Liberty.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're absolutely right, Lenny.
I'm not a huge fan of the pro game (too much repetitive pick-and-roll/pick-and-pop, too much time at the foul line), but the quality of the basketball is far superior to the college game. You almost never see the kind of dog games in the NBA playoffs as regularly occurs in the NCAA tournament, most notably this year's final.

And, yes, NBA players will occasionally dog it in the regular season. An 82-game schedule (plus 8 pre-season games) full of meaningless matchups will do that. But NBA playoff games are every bit as intense as any tournament game, and played at a much higher skill level.

If someone prefers the college game, for whatever reason, there's nothing wrong with that. But anyone who claims the college game is better basketball is either kidding themselves or outta their gourd.

On this we agree..NBA playoffs are exciting...makes you wonder why they wait until then to actually give a damn.   "Occassionally dog it?"  LOL

I guess a lot of people are out of their gourd...those actually watching the games or paying for subscriptions.  People vote with their wallets and viewing habits.  Most basketball fans enjoy the talents of Rose, Kobe, etc...no one denies that.  People don't like the BS during the year, the lolligagging on the court, the preferential rules, etc.  It's not a matter of who has the better athletes (the NBA) or who has better shooters (NBA)...it goes deeper than that. It's what you want to watch...what entertains you, what gets you excited about the sport, what is more pleasing to watch. 

Believe it or not, some people don't mind seeing a college team not make every shot and struggling to shoot 40% but busting their ass anyway to try and win.  There is something compelling about watching student athletes accomplish this that appeals to many folks rather than watching a multi-millionaire hit 6 three pointers in a row.

This just in, there are a huge number of college fans that hate the NBA and vice versa.  I have volumes of that information that we use to market sports to fans every year.  The cross over between the two fan bases is quite small....they are different fan bases.  The cross over between NFL and college football fans is very strong, but not with basketball.  Reams of data that supports this.

[🏀]

YOUR OPINION

The people voting with their eyeballs (television ratings) are obviously saying something different

This stupid notion of comparing minor league baseball to major league baseball (Lenny's ploy a few posts ago) may have been a new absurdity here, which is saying something.  Minor league baseball and major league baseball are the SAME GAME. Same rules, same everything.  The difference is the talent level, but the bases are still 90 feet, the mound still 60' 6", there are 3 outs, 4 balls \ 3 strikes, 9 innings, etc.  The ball is the same, the bats are the same.

College basketball and NBA basketball are NOT THE SAME GAME so comparing that to baseball analogy is a whopper.  Different 3 point line distance, 24 second shot clock, 4 periods vs 2 halves, 40 minutes total game vs 48, 6 PF vs 5, restricted zone (semi circle) under hoop vs no restricted zone, 10 seconds vs 8 seconds to get across half court line, 16' lane vs 12' lane, jump balls vs non jump balls, and on and on and on.  They are different games.

That is the difference.  It's very easy to like both, or just like one, but rest assured you are choosing to like or dislike two different versions of the game and a lot of people don't care for one version or the other.  I can tell from the business that I'm in that people pay for college basketball subscriptions at a much higher rate than the NBA product.  I can also tell you from a ratings perspective the NCAA finals vs the NBA finals have the edge with the NCAA for most years.

Chicos, get over yourself and ratings.

The best talent, players, coaches, mascots, cheerleaders, TV announcers, PA announcers, everything exist in the NBA. That is not opinion, but fact.

There are many different aspects that are going into NCAA ratings versus NBA ratings, and you know that. Stop comparing apples and oranges.