A new sexual assault allegation on campus

[TheGym]

It's a nonsensical "rebuke," at that.
At any point during this process the players were free to discuss their situation with one another, their coach, school officials, an attorney or anyone else of their choosing. If charged, a judge could as a condition of bond restrict them from discussing the case among themselves or certain others, but until that point, there's nothing inappropriate or unethical about it.
The school and/or public safety could have advised (not required) them not to talk about it with anyone, but at that point it seems the players weren't even aware of a complaint/investigation. The rebuke essentially says the players shouldn't have been allowed to discuss with one another or their coach an investigation of which they were unaware.
Hmmm.

I agree, the players can talk to whomever they want relating to the incident.  But Chishom was not talking about any the players.  He was talking about Marquette.  The University should have reported the alledge assault to the police so MPD could begin their investigation.  Marquette evidently agreed with Chisholm because they changes their procedures to comply with the "rebuke".

[Pakuni]

I agree, the players can talk to whomever they want relating to the incident.  But Chishom was not talking about any the players.  He was talking about Marquette.  The University should have reported the alledge assault to the police so MPD could begin their investigation.  Marquette evidently agreed with Chisholm because they changes their procedures to comply with the "rebuke".

Having read the full statement (http://media.jsonline.com/documents/Chisholm_Marquette_letter.pdf), not just what was highlighted by the JS, you're partially correct. He does say MU should have reported the incident to police, regardless of the accuser's wishes. But he also was critical, as the JS reported, that the students discussed the incident among themselves and the coach.

Notably, one of the accused athletes said that the athletes and coaching staff met and discussed an alleged October incident before any law enforcement officer was able to interview the suspects, Chisholm said in a statement released Thursday. One of the athletes texted the accuser during that meeting, asking whether she had reported any incident to Marquette's public safety officials.
"There is no evidence that the coaching staff intended to interfere with the investigation," Chisholm said. "It highlights, however, that when proper procedure is not followed, it prevents an untainted interview with and provides an opportunity for the individuals allegedly involved as suspects or witnesses to compare recollections regarding the circumstances of the alleged conduct."

What really bothers me about the statement, though, is that it never actually addresses the evidence or lack thereof other than to say "unfortunately" there wasn't evidence to support a prosecution. What's unfortunate about that?
I understand that it's pretty much SOP for a prosecutor not to say anything that might disparage an accuser, especially in a sex case, but to say it's "unfortunate" there's no evidence of a crime seems to carry that a bit far.

[TheGym]

[What really bothers me about the statement, though, is that it never actually addresses the evidence or lack thereof other than to say "unfortunately" there wasn't evidence to support a prosecution. What's unfortunate about that?
I understand that it's pretty much SOP for a prosecutor not to say anything that might disparage an accuser, especially in a sex case, but to say it's "unfortunate" there's no evidence of a crime seems to carry that a bit far.
[/quote]

I find that statement "unfortunate" as well.  It is as if it was a foregone conclusion that the evidence would have been there but for the actions of Marquette and the accued.  What if an assualt never occurred?

[Golden Avalanche]

So most of you are still refusing to even think that all of the athletes are innocent? It is just a cover up? I originally would've said the opposite, but over the duration of this investigation I am unsure what to think.

You pretty strongly wrote two months ago that this could be very damaging to the future prospects of the program and that you were unnerved about what was going on and scared of what would happen. Paraphrasing, of course.

What changed your mind?

[2TimeWarrior]

He does say MU should have reported the incident to police, regardless of the accuser's wishes.

I don't quite get where MU would be obligated to report an alleged crime against an alleged victim's wishes.  It seems to me that the decision should ultimately rest with the allged victim.

[Brewtown Andy]

What really bothers me about the statement, though, is that it never actually addresses the evidence or lack thereof other than to say "unfortunately" there wasn't evidence to support a prosecution. What's unfortunate about that?
I understand that it's pretty much SOP for a prosecutor not to say anything that might disparage an accuser, especially in a sex case, but to say it's "unfortunate" there's no evidence of a crime seems to carry that a bit far.

There's no evidence either way apparently, because if there was evidence to support nothing having happened, then the statement with this tone wouldn't even be issued.  I can see a DA being forced to admit that he has nothing useful either way calling that "unfortunate."

[314warrior]

I agree that the "unfortunately" quote from the paper is very biased and unprofessional from the DA.  "Unfortunately, there wasn't enough evidence for me to convict these guys and score a big case."  

Send the DA an email and let him know you didn't like his tone.  da.milwaukee@da.wi.gov

Also, I always thought (although I had no inside knowledge) that MPD and PS had a good working relationship.  Does MPD really want to respond to all the stuff that goes on at Marquette?  They don't have the budget for it.  It seemed like they were plenty happy just getting referrals for tickets with fake IDs and coming in after something major happened.  PS acts as a filter for MPD, and it saves MPD a lot of money.  Demonizing Marquette for these practices seems a bit much.  As long as students are always given the option to contact MPD (which was always the case the couple of times if had a run in with PS), I think it sounds like the system was working just fine.

[GGGG]

I don't quite get where MU would be obligated to report an alleged crime against an alleged victim's wishes.  It seems to me that the decision should ultimately rest with the allged victim.

If the victim has taken the step to contact Public Safety, PS has a reponsibility to move it up the chain to MPD.

[Pakuni]

There's no evidence either way apparently, because if there was evidence to support nothing having happened, then the statement with this tone wouldn't even be issued.  I can see a DA being forced to admit that he has nothing useful either way calling that "unfortunate."

First, let's work off the almost certainly accurate presumption that this was a thought-out, well-prepared statement in which the words were chosen carefully.
 That being the case, had Chisholm meant what you're suggesting and he were lamenting that he had nothing "either way" he probably would have said that, or words to the effect of "unfortunately, the available evidence offers no clear picture of what occurred."
That's not what he chose to say, however. What he intentionally chose to express was disappointment that he could find no evidence with which to prosecute. I've been around prosecutors long enough to know that that's what they love to do - prosecute cases. They'll work much harder to find a reason to file charge than they will seeking reasons not to. So I understand the mindset. Still, they have an ethical obligation not to prosecute when the evidence doesn't allow it. Chisholm seems to have done that here, and that's probably to his credit. But what's not to his credit is his public grumbling over it.

Then again, maybe I'm reading way too much into his choice of words.

[NersEllenson]

Anyone else find it interesting that the player acutal had the alleged victim's cell number, to where he could text her and ask if she had reported the incident to Public Safety?  Clearly the parties involved were previously acquainted....and the fact the player felt comfortable enough texting the girl to ask if she told Public Safety - tells me there was a pre-existing relationship of some variety.

Regardless, unfortunate that the guys even got themselves in this position...but there are some pretty crazy girls out there too...so fault/guilt can very likely lie on both sides of this type of equation/case.

[Pakuni]

If the victim has taken the step to contact Public Safety, PS has a reponsibility to move it up the chain to MPD.

Not exactly.
The law states Public Safety has a responsibility to notify MPD if it has "reasonable grounds to believe that a crime is being committed or has been committed." It appears DPS did not believe a crime has been committed.
That said, it's probably better if they err on the side of caution and report it. And it seems the new policy requires just that which, IMO, is a good thing. Still, there's no legal obligation they do so under every circumstance.

[2TimeWarrior]

If the victim has taken the step to contact Public Safety, PS has a reponsibility to move it up the chain to MPD.

On what basis?  To what chain are you speaking of?  DPS doesn't report to MPD.  Where is the line drawn?  Does DPS have the responsibility to report every reported crime to MPD?  If a bar fight happens between two students at 16th and Wells (which it does every weekend) does DPS have some responsibility to contact MPD even if neither party wants them involved? 

[2TimeWarrior]

The law states Public Safety has a responsibility to notify MPD if it has "reasonable grounds to believe that a crime is being committed or has been committed."

What law is this?

[GGGG]

Not exactly.
The law states Public Safety has a responsibility to notify MPD if it has "reasonable grounds to believe that a crime is being committed or has been committed." It appears DPS did not believe a crime has been committed.
That said, it's probably better if they err on the side of caution and report it. And it seems the new policy requires just that which, IMO, is a good thing. Still, there's no legal obligation they do so under every circumstance.

I didn't say they had a *legal* obligation to do so.

On what basis?  To what chain are you speaking of?  DPS doesn't report to MPD.  Where is the line drawn?  Does DPS have the responsibility to report every reported crime to MPD?  If a bar fight happens between two students at 16th and Wells (which it does every weekend) does DPS have some responsibility to contact MPD even if neither party wants them involved? 

"Up the chain" was a poor use of words on my part.  I think any potential serious crime that involves and investigation of some sort should be referred to MPD.  All Public Safety is is a private security force - they shouldn't be investigating potential felonies.

[2TimeWarrior]

I didn't say they had a *legal* obligation to do so.

I thought I read your post to say that "the law states...."  I must have been mistaken?

Regardless, I agree that DPS should turn over its more significant investigations to MPD, and I assume they typically do.  I still struggle with whether they have an obligation (or even the right) to contact MPD against a victim's wishes.  Doesn't the victim have some rights to privacy?  Isn't it possible that some victims would prefer that things be handled within the University so that it doesn't impact him/her or the alleged actor down the road? 

I also think that students have a trust in DPS that they don't always have with MPD.  If students know that DPS is going to run to MPD regardless of their wishes, there is a real possibility that the choice would be to make no report at all.

[Pakuni]

What law is this?

The state law that governs private security operations, such as Marquette Public Safety.

See state code Chapter 940.34(2)(b)

http://law.justia.com/codes/wisconsin/2010/940/940.34.html

[2TimeWarrior]

The state law that governs private security operations, such as Marquette Public Safety.

See state code Chapter 940.34(2)(b)

http://law.justia.com/codes/wisconsin/2010/940/940.34.html

Interesting.  Although it would not work from a practical standpoint, I think you're right if you look at it view it by the book.

If DPS reported every crime that was reported to them to MPD, MPD would need another 10 full time officers assigned to the MU area.

[Hards Alumni]

Anyone else find it interesting that the player acutal had the alleged victim's cell number, to where he could text her and ask if she had reported the incident to Public Safety?  Clearly the parties involved were previously acquainted....and the fact the player felt comfortable enough texting the girl to ask if she told Public Safety - tells me there was a pre-existing relationship of some variety.

Regardless, unfortunate that the guys even got themselves in this position...but there are some pretty crazy girls out there too...so fault/guilt can very likely lie on both sides of this type of equation/case.

To be fair, most sexual assaults happen between parties that know each other well.

[MerrittsMustache]

Interesting.  Although it would not work from a practical standpoint, I think you're right if you look at it view it by the book.

If DPS reported every crime that was reported to them to MPD, MPD would need another 10 full time officers assigned to the MU area.

I could very well be wrong but in this type of case, I believe it's up to the accuser as to whether or not she would like to have the police contacted.

[GGGG]

Regardless, I agree that DPS should turn over its more significant investigations to MPD, and I assume they typically do.  I still struggle with whether they have an obligation (or even the right) to contact MPD against a victim's wishes.  Doesn't the victim have some rights to privacy?  Isn't it possible that some victims would prefer that things be handled within the University so that it doesn't impact him/her or the alleged actor down the road?  

Well, I think that the victim gives away some of that right when they go to DPS in the first place.  Also, there is an obligation beyond the victim.  Crimes like these are not just crimes against one victim, but crimes against the State of Wisconsin.

I think it is a delicate balance, but I think they can handle that.  I think every party learned from this incident and will work better in the future.

[brewcity77]

I still struggle with whether they have an obligation (or even the right) to contact MPD against a victim's wishes.  Doesn't the victim have some rights to privacy?  Isn't it possible that some victims would prefer that things be handled within the University so that it doesn't impact him/her or the alleged actor down the road?

A few times I've seen cases that could have been a domestic abuse or sexual assault, but we had no evidence and no accusation. If the victim doesn't want to report it, that's their choice. We'll call the cops or an ambulance if they want, they can also refuse services and unless it's a minor or invalid where we feel their interests aren't being addressed by the guardians, we most likely won't call the cops unless the boss sees an imminent need (such as clear and present danger). I imagine DPS is in a similar situation. All they can really do is make the avenue of going to the police available. As long as they did that, and all indications are that they did, I don't really see what more they could have done.

[2TimeWarrior]

A few times I've seen cases that could have been a domestic abuse or sexual assault, but we had no evidence and no accusation. If the victim doesn't want to report it, that's their choice. We'll call the cops or an ambulance if they want, they can also refuse services and unless it's a minor or invalid where we feel their interests aren't being addressed by the guardians, we most likely won't call the cops unless the boss sees an imminent need (such as clear and present danger). I imagine DPS is in a similar situation. All they can really do is make the avenue of going to the police available. As long as they did that, and all indications are that they did, I don't really see what more they could have done.

Well said, Brew.  I think DPS is getting a bit too much criticism on how they handled this.