Big Accomplishment for Buzz

[mufvr]

When you reflect back on the job Buzz has done since taking over the program it's pretty impressive.  His first year he inherited the Three Amigos and Lazar with no depth behind them since TC took a couple of years off recruiting wise.  To balance the classes he brought in Jucos and got the most out of them.  I hope he continues to focus on bringing in HS players and developing them so that they can start to produce by the latter end of their freshman years.  Gardner & Junior are examples of this while I am considering this Junior's 1st year given his injury and limited season last year.  Buzz has proven he can develop players and I suspect this year's freshmen and sophs will be much better players during the next two years.  With that said, Buzz still needs to land the highly touted and elusive PF and C to bring the program to the elite level.  I am confident he will get it done.

[ChicosBailBonds]

When you reflect back on the job Buzz has done since taking over the program it's pretty impressive.  His first year he inherited the Three Amigos and Lazar with no depth behind them since TC took a couple of years off recruiting wise.  

Actually this couldn't be more inaccurate.  He most certainly didn't take a few years off recruiting wise...the problem is they never enrolled.  Tyshawn Taylor (Kansas), Nick Williams (Ole Miss), and what was almost certain to be Maurice Creek (IU) didn't come because he was no longer here. Then you had some of his players like Mbakwe (Minnesota, All Big Ten), Christopherson (Iowa State, ALL Big 12), etc, transfer out. Please, for once I wish some folks here would use some facts.  

Buzz has done a nice job keeping the program going.  This season was a bizarre one.  Our most losses since Deane's last season, yet also only our third Sweet 16 in 25+ years.  It was that type of year.  Looking forward to a more consistent season next year.

[TallTitan34]

+1 mufvr

Awesome job by Buzz not only keeping us in the tournament while rebuilding but making it to the Sweet Sixteen as well.

[Goose]

Chico's--You know your stuff well. I can see why fans get pissed but you but 99% of your comments are correct. Please keep posting and lets make this program Kansas. You get the game and the business of the game well. Thanks for posting!!

[77fan88warrior]

Actually this couldn't be more inaccurate.  He most certainly didn't take a few years off recruiting wise...the problem is they never enrolled.  Tyshawn Taylor (Kansas), Nick Williams (Ole Miss), and what was almost certain to be Maurice Creek (IU) didn't come because he was no longer here. Then you had some of his players like Mbakwe (Minnesota, All Big Ten), Christopherson (Iowa State, ALL Big 12), etc, transfer out. Please, for once I wish some folks here would use some facts.  

Buzz has done a nice job keeping the program going.  This season was a bizarre one.  Our most losses since Deane's last season, yet also only our third Sweet 16 in 25+ years.  It was that type of year.  Looking forward to a more consistent season next year.

Taylor(Hurley pushed away and has had troubles at Kansas),Nick Williams(transferred or pushed out of IU), Christopherson(honorable mention with 12 players on first 3 teams and couldn't find role at MU), MBAKWE(trouble at MU? and more in Miami?), and Maurice Creek(never committed to MU) all sound great but Dukiet also had some woulda, shoulda, and might haves.
We also played our toughest schedule since?
Please don't patronize our former coach that left us in a lurch as our current coach maintained some former recruits that are current players such as Jimmy Butler?
The problem is that schools are always knocking on the next hot coach's door and Buzz is one of those now. He managed to fill in yearly needs while our former coach stole recruits like Nick Williams and Maurice Creek if you insist he was ours!

[Silkk the Shaka]

Typical Chicos. Defend Bo Ryan and Tom Crean at the drop of a hat but take every chance to slight Buzz possible.

[burger]

Sweet 16 in his 3rd year with the mess Crean left.....

Very very good.....

The Amigo's never made the Sweet 16......

You can say we got lucky.....But we got to play......

Now we know what the standard is.....

Next time.....We will not go down as easy......

[ChicosBailBonds]

Taylor(Hurley pushed away and has had troubles at Kansas),Nick Williams(transferred or pushed out of IU), Christopherson(honorable mention with 12 players on first 3 teams and couldn't find role at MU), MBAKWE(trouble at MU? and more in Miami?), and Maurice Creek(never committed to MU) all sound great but Dukiet also had some woulda, shoulda, and might haves.
We also played our toughest schedule since?
Please don't patronize our former coach that left us in a lurch as our current coach maintained some former recruits that are current players such as Jimmy Butler?
The problem is that schools are always knocking on the next hot coach's door and Buzz is one of those now. He managed to fill in yearly needs while our former coach stole recruits like Nick Williams and Maurice Creek if you insist he was ours!

You obviously didn't read what I said or the original statement that was made.  The charge was that the previous administration had stopped recruiting, or to use his words..."took a couple of years off recruiting wise".

I simply answered with the facts that this is not true.  I'm sorry you and Jamilman don't like those facts, but that's the way it goes.  Otule, Fulce, Taylor, Williams, (Creek was going wherever Crean was....all you have to do is listen to what Creek said...take his word, not mine if you wish), etc. all signed with Crean. To suggest a couple of years of recruiting were taken off is beyond absurd.

The statement the OP made was wrong, I corrected it.  Why is the truth such a problem with some of you?

[MUCam]

Why is the truth such a problem with some of you?

The truth is Maurice Creek never committed to Marquette while Crean was here.

But, in typical fashion, the truth doesn't mean anything when we are talking about you pushing your viewpoint, does it?

You may speculate that Creek would've come to Marquette, but you cannot confirm that. However, I hope you don't engage in speculation, given that just a few weeks ago you were present on this board playing task-master again, cautioning people against speculation. But, hey...on that day, in that argument, if fit with what you were saying. Now it doesn't, so speculate away.

You want to correct the board and say Crean's recruiting hadn't fallen off? Do it. But, when you make ridiculous statements to back your proposition like insinuating Creek was all but Marquette's you lose credibility. Unfortunately, for you, this happens time and time again.

[Avenue Commons]

Actually this couldn't be more inaccurate.  He most certainly didn't take a few years off recruiting wise...the problem is they never enrolled.  Tyshawn Taylor (Kansas), Nick Williams (Ole Miss), and what was almost certain to be Maurice Creek (IU) didn't come because he was no longer here. Then you had some of his players like Mbakwe (Minnesota, All Big Ten), Christopherson (Iowa State, ALL Big 12), etc, transfer out. Please, for once I wish some folks here would use some facts.  

Buzz has done a nice job keeping the program going.  This season was a bizarre one.  Our most losses since Deane's last season, yet also only our third Sweet 16 in 25+ years.  It was that type of year.  Looking forward to a more consistent season next year.

TC made  gross miscalculation when he left. Ironically, TC has not been able to get those kinds of kids at IU. Tyshawn Taylor is a special player. Every time I see him play I think "what if."

[texaswarrior74]

Chicos

Keep posting....some people here can't remove their blue and gold glasses long enough to see the facts/truth.

I got vilified by a few last week for trying to get some people to realize that the UNC team we were facing last night was not only a very good team but a very different team that started the season and that we would have to bring out best game to beat them.......I'm sorry if my heart said MU but head said UNC....

Buzz is certainly not without warts...he's still learning....personally I think he was so amped-up in game preparation that he had the team too tight ...I've never seen them look like that....and it took them too long to settle down....also he waited too long to quit trying to match them man-to-man......if he truly had seen their previous games, he would have gone to the zone much earlier-it has been their nemesis all year.

We'll miss JFB's leadership but have a great core returning, we add Jamil (which no one should take lightly) and have some good freshman coming in.....but remember what AL said .....the best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores....hopefully this new group understands what it takes to survive and prosper in Buzz's system. If we can add more size depth it would really round out the team. Hopefully some kid/prospect watching that game realized how he could help this team.

This board would be much better without all the bickering and condemnation of fellow posters.....look at some other boards gang....none I have ever seen bickers and rags on other posters like this one.

just my $0.02

[ChicosBailBonds]

The truth is Maurice Creek never committed to Marquette while Crean was here.

But, in typical fashion, the truth doesn't mean anything when we are talking about you pushing your viewpoint, does it?

You may speculate that Creek would've come to Marquette, but you cannot confirm that. However, I hope you don't engage in speculation, given that just a few weeks ago you were present on this board playing task-master again, cautioning people against speculation. But, hey...on that day, in that argument, if fit with what you were saying. Now it doesn't, so speculate away.

You want to correct the board and say Crean's recruiting hadn't fallen off? Do it. But, when you make ridiculous statements to back your proposition like insinuating Creek was all but Marquette's you lose credibility. Unfortunately, for you, this happens time and time again.

Correct....and the truth is I never said the kid did commit, did I? (I said almost certain).  The complaint was that recruiting had stopped...that's absurd.  So thanks, but I didn't say anything that was incorrect.

As I said...why don't you just listen to the young man's own words?  Don't take my word for it, take Creek's.  Why is this so hard for you to do?

So that's quite a write up you have of complaints, which have now been debunked because I never said he committed.  I'm sure the apology will come any second now.   

[StillWarriors]

TC made  gross miscalculation when he left. Ironically, TC has not been able to get those kinds of kids at IU. Tyshawn Taylor is a special player. Every time I see him play I think "what if."

I'm not a Crean fan, but have you seen his next two classes? He left with the hope of being able to draw that kind of talent to IU. It took a while, and he better win with them, but he has loads of talent coming.

[ChicosBailBonds]

TC made  gross miscalculation when he left. Ironically, TC has not been able to get those kinds of kids at IU. Tyshawn Taylor is a special player. Every time I see him play I think "what if."

I don't know, he landed another stud just three days ago.  Kid picked IU over Ohio State, Purdue and Cincinnati (Hollowell from Indianapolis)

I lost count, but I think he has committed next year and the two years beyond that (assuming they sign, which as we all know is when a school is TRULY chosen) is something like 8 or 9 players that are 4 or 5 star kids.  He left MU because he probably didn't think he could get that many players that consistently.  Indiana is fertile ground.

[Jay Bee]

I don't know, he landed another stud just three days ago.  Kid picked IU over Ohio State, Purdue and Cincinnati (Hollowell from Indianapolis)

I lost count, but I think he has committed next year and the two years beyond that (assuming they sign, which as we all know is when a school is TRULY chosen) is something like 8 or 9 players that are 4 or 5 star kids.  He left MU because he probably didn't think he could get that many players that consistently.  Indiana is fertile ground.

Indiana Elite is fertile ground.

You said that kids can't commit until they sign.  You were adamant in this definition.  How in the world does Crean have kids committed so far into the future?  Do you want to take back what you argued a few days ago?  Which words do you want to eat?  Today's or the other day's?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos

Keep posting....some people here can't remove their blue and gold glasses long enough to see the facts/truth.

Totally agree, but a number of folks here not only don't like facts/truth, but they especially don't like who is presenting them (that's the real issue...facts be damned because it's all about who is presenting them).

Buzz is certainly not without warts...he's still learning....personally I think he was so amped-up in game preparation that he had the team too tight ...I've never seen them look like that....and it took them too long to settle down....also he waited too long to quit trying to match them man-to-man......if he truly had seen their previous games, he would have gone to the zone much earlier-it has been their nemesis all year.

Agree...we looked so out of it.  Totally agree on the man to man thing.  UNC is not a great shooting team, so why wouldn't we zone them?  Beyond head scratching.

This board would be much better without all the bickering and condemnation of fellow posters.....look at some other boards gang....none I have ever seen bickers and rags on other posters like this one.

just my $0.02

Again, it's not what is posted, it's WHO posts it.  That is what it's all about here.  I could post the identical stuff using a different username, and the vitriol would come down 50% if not more.  The very same guys that scream how "wrong" the point of view is would say "good points".  It would be an interesting psychology project.

[bilsu]

I am not worrying about Crean/Indiana until they win one more game than Buzz/MU in a season.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Indiana Elite is fertile ground.

You said that kids can't commit until they sign.  You were adamant in this definition.  How in the world does Crean have kids committed so far into the future?  Do you want to take back what you argued a few days ago?  Which words do you want to eat?  Today's or the other day's?

Perhaps you should read the very part you bolded again.     Let me help you and put in blue for you, in case when you bolded it you didn't understand what you were bolding:

"(assuming they sign, which as we all know is when a school is TRULY chosen)"


Thank you for proving my point I made in the last post...well done.  Perfect timing.  You make a great Robin.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am not worrying about Crean/Indiana until they win one more game than Buzz/MU in a season.

With Buzz's win totals lowering each year and Crean's going up, those two are converging

Buzz 25, 22, 22

Crean 6, 10, 12

Should happen in about another 4 years     Just kidding.  In all seriousness, the Big Ten loses a lot this year and suddenly IU goes from one of the youngest teams to one of the more veteran teams.  Pressure starts this coming season for him.  MU, should have a top 25 team next year

[Pakuni]

Neither side of this neverending argument is telling the whole truth.

Fact: Had Crean stayed, he had a solid freshman class coming in, as well as some solid players who would have been sophomores (assuming they would have remained). In that sense, the cupard was not bare. Crean bashers seem unwilling to admit this.

Fact: As a result of Crean's departure, kids who had committed to him asked out of their LOIs and transferred through no fault of the next coach. This left Buzz Williams with a pretty significant rebuilding job after the upper classmen he inherited left. He accomplished that rebuild admirably, assembling a team of his own players that went further in the tourney than any in the previous seven seasons. The Crean loyalists seem equally unwilling to admit how big and successful the rebuild has been.
And anyone who calls Otule or Fulce a Crean player deserves a kick in the cubes.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Neither side of this neverending argument is telling the whole truth.

Fact: Had Crean stayed, he had a solid freshman class coming in, as well as some solid players who would have been sophomores (assuming they would have remained). In that sense, the cupboard was not bare. Crean bashers seem unwilling to admit this.

And as far at this thread goes, and the original OP, that's exactly what I was saying.  This idea that recruiting stopped or was put on hold is myth of epic proportions.  I appreciate your honesty on this.  And yes, I also agree that when he left, so did a lot of other talent...which is why I don't want Buzz to leave.  It disrupts everything.

[ChicosBailBonds]

  while our former coach stole recruits like Nick Williams and Maurice Creek if you insist he was ours!

I assume you realize that Joe Fulce had signed with New Orleans and this guy named Buzz Williams then "stole" him and brought him to Marquette.   

I assume you realize that Ron Curry signed with Arizona and played one year but this guy named Kevin O'Neil then "stole" him and brought him to Marquette   

If Buzz leaves to take another job, do you think he may not consider taking some recruits with him?  Based on the past, I'd suggest he would. 

[Pakuni]

I assume you realize that Joe Fulce had signed with New Orleans and this guy named Buzz Williams then "stole" him and brought him to Marquette.   

Very different situation than that of Nick Williams, which I suspect you know.
Fulce was let out of his New Orleans letter of intent and on his way to JUCO months before committing in any form to Marquette.
Williams, on the other hand, was still committed to Marquette under a valid LOI when Crean (and Bennie Seltzer) began recruiting him to I4 about 15 minutes after he took the job.

Not the best of analogies.

[Rollout-the-Barrel]

Thanks for breaking it down Pakuni. Sounds about right to me. Some day maybe everyone will understand. Doubt it though.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Very different situation than that of Nick Williams, which I suspect you know.
Fulce was let out of his New Orleans letter of intent and on his way to JUCO months before committing in any form to Marquette.
Williams, on the other hand, was still committed to Marquette under a valid LOI when Crean (and Bennie Seltzer) began recruiting him to I4 about 15 minutes after he took the job.

Not the best of analogies.

As I'm sure you also know, Nick Williams was also left out of LOI and Williams told MU immediately upon Crean's departure he was not coming to MU....that's who the person implied was "stolen".  In fact, Buzz said he didn't want him and made no attempt to save him.  Seems like a fair analogy to me.

It's an ugly situation when coaches change.  I don't like what Crean did but I have few doubts that Buzz would likely do the same thing, just as KO did and coaches have done for years.  It's ugly but the nature of the dirty side of college hoops.