MU identity crisis

[Goose]

It always puzzles me with the uncertainty of our basketball program. The following are known:
1. The Al is great practice facility.
2. BE is top conference
3. Kids love to play in NBA arena.
4. Pay coaches like we are a perennial Elite 8 program
5. Very good school

With these facts why do we always have a level of uncertainty in our program on regular basis? I believe it has to do completely with the administration not having a firm basketball agenda. I call it the "Al McGuire curse". Because we caught lightning in a bottle once we assume it will happen again. IMO that is a pretty big gamble for a school that depends on revenues from ball to pay for all sports and then some.

I want MU to utilize our great resources and take it to the next level. The ball is in the school's court and they need to deliver.

[Norm]

What do you suggest they do?

[Pakuni]

It always puzzles me with the uncertainty of our basketball program. The following are known:
1. The Al is great practice facility.
2. BE is top conference
3. Kids love to play in NBA arena.
4. Pay coaches like we are a perennial Elite 8 program
5. Very good school

With these facts why do we always have a level of uncertainty in our program on regular basis? I believe it has to do completely with the administration not having a firm basketball agenda. I call it the "Al McGuire curse". Because we caught lightning in a bottle once we assume it will happen again. IMO that is a pretty big gamble for a school that depends on revenues from ball to pay for all sports and then some.

I want MU to utilize our great resources and take it to the next level. The ball is in the school's court and they need to deliver.

It puzzles me how a seemingly reasonable person can say the administration doesn't have "a firm basketball agenda." MU spends more on its program than every other Big East school except Louisville, keeps its coaches among the highest paid in the nation  (at one point paid Buzz over $400,000 as an assistant) and is less than a decade removed from building a $31 million basketball facility?

[Niv Berkowitz]

If the perception among the public and the media is that MU is a small, private school that is a stepping stone for a bigger job, guess what? There's nothing MU can do about it! That perception is reality. All MU can do is pay its coach fair market value, continue to perform, and hope the coach sticks around long enough so that his word is trusted.

In all honesty, if Buzz does NOT leave this year, and he gets a long-term extension and raise, and says 'no' to these so-called big jobs in the south, I think it will make off-seasons in years to come much easier. Why? Because everyone will know that Buzz ain't going anywhere, at least not for a parallel move. You don't see Jay Wright's name pop up for any of these jobs, and that's because the perception is that 'Nova is some shrine to the BEast.

That is, unfortunately, the reality we live in today. Like I said, Buzz stays, signs an extension, says "this is where I am to stay", I think this all dies down a lot more next year. Sure, his name will come up, but us fans won't look like boyfriends who's seen their girlfriend's ex move in next door every effing spring.

[Goose]

They should run the basketball team like a business. We have all the tools of the trade and yet more often than not we are scrambling. We built The Al to get kids like J.P. Tokoto, not the women's team.

I would find a guy, do 100% vetting and do whatever it takes to make him want to be here. I mentioned our positives and yet we still lose guys. No other school in similar situation is on the outside looking in more than MU is.

[Goose]

Pakuni--We pay our coaches market or above market pay and still lose them. Obviously we are not doing something right. What causes a business with great resources to lose key people? IMO it stems from a misconception that because we spend money and have toys guys will come. Those days are over with.

[tower912]

I would say, Goose, that perhaps part of the problem is influential alumni/donors with whom no one not named Al McGuire will ever be good enough.   You see that writ small here.
  Every coach through Crean commented about the difficulty of following a legend.   Crean, to his credit, embraced it.      And while we all (OK, most of us) love MU, it has its limitations.    We are a small basketball school in a state that doesn't turn out much D1 talent and much of that goes to a state school.    We are a private school hated by a large portion of the area/state surrounding it.   Our campus is not beautiful.  We are at the mercy of a huge conference that is looking to grow its football base.    Our rivals are a plane flight away, mostly in another time zone.   Our students boo our team when it isn't playing to their expectations.   Fans stay away on weeknights.    And our message boards, like most, have a vocal minority who are never happy and make enough noise that their numbers seem larger than they are.    

[Jam Chowder]

Goose--Why do you hate Marquette so much? Why expend the energy on this board when you clearly hope for this program's demise?

[Litehouse]

I think Buzz sticking around would go a long way toward dispelling these perceptions, especially after how heavily he's been mentioned with Oklahoma and Arkansas.

The lack of a football team and the associated conference stability that provides is also a factor.  Villanova and Georgetown are at least in a position where they could at least upgrade their existing programs if they had to.  We're still the new kids in the Big East also, which puts us a notch below Nova and G-town.  I think we're clearly ahead of DePaul and Providence, and at least even with St. Johns after they hired Lavin.

[Pakuni]

Pakuni--We pay our coaches market or above market pay and still lose them. Obviously we are not doing something right. What causes a business with great resources to lose key people? IMO it stems from a misconception that because we spend money and have toys guys will come. Those days are over with.

First, I think you're overstating MU's conundrum. We've lost two coaches in 17 years. One left when MU was in a much lesser place  - in terms of money, conference affiliation and facilities - than it is today. so all the current advantages you speak of are irrelevant to that.
The second left to take over on of the 5-10 most storied programs in the nation for a ridiculous amount of money. No amount of "firm basketball agenda" could compete with that.

Regardless, other than some platitudes about "supporting the program" and "firm basketball agenda," please give us some specifics on what more the administration must do.

[79Warrior]

They should run the basketball team like a business. We have all the tools of the trade and yet more often than not we are scrambling. We built The Al to get kids like J.P. Tokoto, not the women's team.

I would find a guy, do 100% vetting and do whatever it takes to make him want to be here. I mentioned our positives and yet we still lose guys. No other school in similar situation is on the outside looking in more than MU is.

Goose, respectfully, it is run like a business. You must be fairly young because this is the way it is. MU has done everything in its power to maintain a top notch program. By all accounts, it is run like a top notch program.

Some of the issues MU faces we can do little if anything about.

1. Small, Jesuit School not for everybody
2. Small, downtown urban campus
3. Milwaukee. works for some people, not for others.
4. Weather

Nothing MU can do about any of that. MU was very fortunate Al and Hank liked Milwaukee and remained their in retirement. there are just some issues MU has no control over.

100% vetting means what? You don't think individual circumstances change over the years?There is NO WAY to guarantee anyone stays for a long time.

MU has done an outstanding job under Fr. Wild with this program. Just look at other Catholic schools and see just how hard it is. Can you say DePaul, Creighton, SLU, SH etc?

[Wareagle]

Seriously?  Roy Williams left Kansas, Bill Self left Illinois, Calipari left Memphis and Pitino left UK for the NBA just off the top of my head.  Schools with equal or greater resources face the same problems we do, it's not a "Marquette" thing.

[Goose]

Tower---I agree with you and believe many of things can change. The issues we have are not ones that cannot be overcome. We have so much to offer and at times I feel like we waste an opportunity. I love Al and I love MU but it is 2011.

It is time for the school and fans to take advantage of the many positives we have here. We need to embrace a coach and make it his program. We need to go to crappy games and cheer or we will go backwards quickly.

We have the tools to make this an elite program.

[Goose]

79Warriors---I am 47 years old and have supported the program since my Dad got tickets in 1968. Our family name is on The AL wall and another building on campus. Every major event in my life, funeral or wedding, a MU coach, player, former player or coach has been in attendance. I am not a 22y casual fan of the program.

The game has changed and MU has ton of correct things. But to me it seems excuses are always made. Your points/negatives are valid. But is Louisville better? We are too good of a place with many resources to lose coaches prematurely.

[Goose]

Jam---I love MU so much I am not afraid to admit weakness or faults. I will love MU if they decide to go to A-10 or discontinue basketball. Because I believe we have a ton of great resources and they are not used to the fullest make me a hater? Give me a break.

[GGGG]

Some of the issues MU faces we can do little if anything about.

1. Small, Jesuit School not for everybody
2. Small, downtown urban campus
3. Milwaukee. works for some people, not for others.
4. Weather

5. Top basketball recruits are increasingly from the south and the west, making recruiting more difficult.
6. Relatively small fan base and the lack of PR that goes with that.

MU has done an outstanding job under Fr. Wild with this program. Just look at other Catholic schools and see just how hard it is. Can you say DePaul, Creighton, SLU, SH etc?

Amen.  Frankly I am not sure MU could have done any better with their basketball program as they have over the past 12 years.  Two very good coaches, better facilities, admittance into the BE, success on the court, spending $$ off of it...  What else can MU do?

[drewm88]

It is time for the school and fans to take advantage of the many positives we have here. We need to embrace a coach and make it his program. We need to go to crappy games and cheer or we will go backwards quickly.

You originally said the problem was completely with administration. This sounds like it's on the fans. Regardless, what should be done? Our facilities and salaries are top-notch. Basketball is king at the university.

Getting fans to show up to all the games is relative. We still have elite attendance numbers. I don't think it's reasonable to expect sellouts every game when the school is small relative to the BC. I think sellouts for all BE games is the absolute ceiling for attendance.

So what are your ideas to increase attendance, and what are your other ideas to bolster the program? I'd love to have somebody like K or Izzo that will be here forever, but there's only 2 of them to go around.

[Goose]

Sultan---Hire a basketball mided AD. Make the business of basketball a 365 day business. Promote the program throughout the state. It seems to me that we are great at doing things after the fact. It is great we built The Al, not lets use it for our advantage.

IMO Mu takes basketball for granted and the other schools we compete with do not. The AD position is very important.

[Goose]

All I can say it is like the line in Rounders when Matt Damon says "why do you think the same five guys make it to the final table every year? Are they the luckiest guys in Vegas?"

We have the tools to be special, real special.

[dw3dw3dw3]

I would like to agree with the Goose. However, I would add the caveat that there is only so much MU can do unless they want to take another step.  The city for the most part at this point does not identify with MU (e.g. Bucks crowd vs MU crowd). Could that change, yes, but not without making it a priority by MU (and taking heat for it by the talking heads and influential alumni). I don't think trying to motivate the alumni base to go to a South East West Arkansas State game is ever going to work, however there is a metro of about 1 million people that haven't had a basketball winner in sometime to cheer for. The prices are half or less the cost of Bucks games.

Filling the Bradley Center, making a MU game the thing to do, can't be just put on the alumni. I'm not saying it worked because I haven't been going to games, but Northwestern (another school not many city people identify with) has been making a huge push through advertising throughout the city. Chicago doesn't identify with any college, but it has been done before with Depaul. The numbers are there in Milwaukee to make it a special place to see games. This year was dreadful as far as building energy goes and I thought last year was just a down year.

I get you Goose, but I just don't see it happening unless a coach (hopefully Buzz) is the facilitator it making it the biggest thing in Milwaukee.

[Goose]

dw3---Thanks!!

[Litehouse]

If Buzz stays, Cotttingham looks like a genius.  If Buzz leaves, it might be time to bring in a new AD and let Cottingham go back to the GC's office.

[GGGG]

I think you are understating what MU is doing now in many regards.  Could they put more effort into marketing?  Probably...but you will likely get diminishing returns over time.  (Chicos could address this better than I could.)  Things are different than they were 30 years ago.  The biggest difference being that UW-Madison's program is not only off life support, but one of the better programs in the country.  Al never had to deal with that.

But the AD thing isn't much of an issue with me.  Most schools have gone the route of having a business-minded AD like Cottingham.  Increasingly, that role isn't just a figurehead former coach, but someone smart and savy to make decisions in an ever-changing landscape.  Cottingham certainly seems to have done OK so far...the decision to add lacrosse for instance was a stroke of genious.  

[Goose]

Tower---Again I agree with many of your points but I have a question. Why spend $31 million on The Al with all the negatives? Why not have marquee times and play at MECCA? Xavier has done pretty well with all the bells and whistles.

Again, this is were identity crisis come in? Are we Xavier (I would have no problem with that) or are we big time? Gotta have a identity and a plan.

[MuMark]

"why do you think the same five guys make it to the final table every year"

Not even remotely true but still a good line.........great movie.