MU identity crisis

[Goose]

MUMark---Our regional has UNC, UK and OSU. Do not think any of their fans think it is successful season being there. They are there because the school/fans expect and demand it.

It does not happen by luck that Duke plays big games. They are bred to play big games. We have everything in place to do the same.

[Earl Tatum]

I totally agree with "Goose". I bleed MU Basketball. I still blame administration. MU has great facilities, except the weather at times. We had it going after Al (Raymonds and Majerus) then then that administration came up with duds like Dukiet and Deane. O'Neill and Crean weren't so hot either at MU. A maybe to Crean. Keep Buzz. There are more MU fans up here now, but I still get crap from UW and it sickens my stomach.

[Tugg Speedman]

Goose - You seem to think college basketball is made up of Duke, UNC and 343 variations of losers.

What I read you as saying is either we are Duke or we are a bunch of losers and should then go into the A-10 (or the Midwest version, the Horizon league).

Two years ago, MU was top 10 before DJ broke his foot.  This year we are sweet sixteen.  We have more top 100 guys than ever.  We play int he toughest league, the BE.

I can see you now ... either we have a banner from the BC or we are Centenary.  No difference.

[TJ]

Why are people acting like we've already lost our coach?  We're still playing and Buzz isn't going anywhere for at least another week (and I don't see it happening then either).  All this bitching about losing another coach shouldn't really happen until we actually lose another coach.  We don't need to worry about 100% vetting another coach and making it his program - we have a perfectly good coach in Buzz, so how about you treat it as Buzz's program?

[Goose]

AnotherMU--We were Top 10 three years ago and in Sweet 16 this year. Unfortunately we might be googling our third coach in that same time frame. All I want is a return on investment. We spend money like UNC and Duke, I have heard that we out spend all BE teams with exception of Louisville, yet we are possibly losing another coach.

I will admit I must be an idiot because not one other poster finds that to be troubling? Maybe that is part of the proble,

Just sayin

[TJ]

AnotherMU--We were Top 10 three years ago and in Sweet 16 this year. Unfortunately we might be googling our third coach in that same time frame. All I want is a return on investment. We spend money like UNC and Duke, I have heard that we out spend all BE teams with exception of Louisville, yet we are possibly losing another coach.

I will admit I must be an idiot because not one other poster finds that to be troubling? Maybe that is part of the proble,

Just sayin

Why are you so sure we're losing a coach?  Buzz will be here next year.

[Tugg Speedman]

Goose - what will you say in two weeks if Buzz does not leave?

[Goose]

TJ---I am not so sure but can say this, I am an adult and do know people take jobs for various reasons. More money and closer to home usually are solid reasons.

My starting the topic has nothing to do with Buzz leaving, it has to do with overall program. Would love to see Buzz stay here for ten years. Unfortunately I am not the guy trying to keep him. IMO we better be able to sell Buzz on why to stay better than the guy trying to get him to leave.

[dw3dw3dw3]

I agree that advertising has diminishing returns, however we have multiple factors going against us now:
1. Our current coach doesn't care about marketing for the most part. I'm fine with this, but I agree, someone has to be responsible for pitching the product full time.
2. The 2/3 year players are hard for the public to get attached to. Jimmy Butler just became the face of the program, but he's gone within the next two weeks.  I love that we've stayed competitive with 2/3 year players, but they aren't going to be someone who casual fans (not people on message boards) can get behind. My son just started talking non-stop about Jimmy Butler and he will be gone. While getting behind a program is one thing, I just don't see it with our alumni base (enough to pack the Bradley center), the players are the ones kids identify with.

I would actually be happy with going to games that had the excitement level of the 3 amigos era, whether or not the attendance figures show it, actual attendance seems down at least 10-15% from a few years ago.

[Goose]

AnotherMU---If Buzz stays I would be happy as hell. Still think overall identity needs to be addressed but we could add established coach to our positive list. Being elite program is EVERYDAY job.

[Tugg Speedman]

AnotherMU---If Buzz stays I would be happy as hell. Still think overall identity needs to be addressed but we could add established coach to our positive list. Being elite program is EVERYDAY job.

I still don't know what you mean by "Identity"  I think you mean we have to be Duke or forget basketball altogether.  In other words, if we are not the best of 345 D1 programs, then we are wasting our time.

[Blackhat]

It's good to have goals. The athletic program should have goals established, short term and long term.   I would hope they have ambitious goals for the long term and strive to accomplish them.  The more specific the goal the better. 

[Goose]

AnotherMU--Do you think most NCAA fans think MU is peer to:

UConn
Kentucky
UW
DePaul
Xavier

My gut feeling is more non MU fans would group us with DePaul or Xavier than the top three. We spend more on ball than all put UK in that group but not thought of that way nationally.

To me it is like the idiots that call their school's the Harvard of the Midwest. I don't want to be the Kentucky of Wisconsin, I want to be Kentucky.

[uncle zeffy]

Sultan---Hire a basketball mided AD. Make the business of basketball a 365 day business.

I love MU basketball as much as the next guy but this is a bad idea. JUST this year Steve Cottingham helped strengthen our position in the Big East by adding Mens and Womens Lacrosse, as well as hiring an up and coming head coach from Hostra to coach the men.

You may not intend going to any of these games, but this is a growing sport that is slowly gaining more and more media attention. And to the best of my knowledge makes MU the furthest west team with D1 Men & Womens Lacrosse.

As many have mentioned the BE is looking to expand its football members. I see us in a position that is less likely to get pushed out SOLELY based on this addition of LAX.

MU Basketball is better in the Big East then getting pushed out to a Non-BCS conference like the A-10, thank the guy who wasn't 100% focused on MUBB for that.

[TJ]

AnotherMU--Do you think most NCAA fans think MU is peer to:

UConn
Kentucky
UW
DePaul
Xavier

My gut feeling is more non MU fans would group us with DePaul or Xavier than the top three. We spend more on ball than all put UK in that group but not thought of that way nationally.

To me it is like the idiots that call their school's the Harvard of the Midwest. I don't want to be the Kentucky of Wisconsin, I want to be Kentucky.

That takes winning, and especially winning in the tournament, more than anything else.  Like it or not the 3 amigos + Hayward underperformed mightily over the course of 5 years in the tournament.  Getting to the tournament was great, but that's not the goal of Kentucky.  MU has succeeded/done its job this year and hopefully future teams can repeat this success in years to come.  Nothing is going to change any perceptions out there better than tournament success.  Keep the bid-streak alive.  Win a game almost every year.  Multiple Sweet 16 appearances.  Get the recent tourney record above .500.  Make it further a few times.  That's how you become like Kentucky.  Our perception is a direct result of this being just our third Sweet 16 appearance in 20+ years.

[Pakuni]

IMO Mu takes basketball for granted and the other schools we compete with do not. The AD position is very important.

Once again, MU spends more on basketball than 14 of the other 15 Big East programs with which we compete.
On what basis do you consider this "taking basketball for granted?"

[Goose]

TJ---Exactly my point. But we spend money like an Elite program. That is my question...WHY DO WE OUTSPEND ALMOST EVERYONE AND GROUPED WITH XAVIER? We beat Xavier 907 straight times prior to 1995 and now they are our equals. They do not play in NBA joint, have $31 million practice facility, out spend most schools in coach and are small Jesuit school, with small urban campus, with marginal winter weather and next to rednecks. Yet they are equally or more respected on national level.

Am I the only one that finds that troubling?

[Litehouse]

This thread started out OK with a good idea, strive for greatness, but I feel it went off track.  We're on the right path doing the right things.  The biggest thing we can do is to make sure we keep Buzz to maintain stability, and even that is somewhat out of our control.  If Buzz stays, the future looks bright with our roster for next year and we can continue this positivie momentum.

[TJ]

TJ---Exactly my point. But we spend money like an Elite program. That is my question...WHY DO WE OUTSPEND ALMOST EVERYONE AND GROUPED WITH XAVIER? We beat Xavier 907 straight times prior to 1995 and now they are our equals. They do not play in NBA joint, have $31 million practice facility, out spend most schools in coach and are small Jesuit school, with small urban campus, with marginal winter weather and next to rednecks. Yet they are equally or more respected on national level.

Am I the only one that finds that troubling?

They got 3 Sweet 16 appearances in a row.  That's most of it.

[Goose]

Pakuni---We out spend 14 out 15 BE schools and are one hire away from being DePaul. That is taking the program for granted. Being great does not happen only because you spend money. It is a 365 day a year process.

[GGGG]

I think you care more about what others think than most of the rest of us do.

The fact that we are in the BE while Xavier is in the A10 means they are not our equal.

[Litehouse]

TJ---Exactly my point. But we spend money like an Elite program. That is my question...WHY DO WE OUTSPEND ALMOST EVERYONE AND GROUPED WITH XAVIER? We beat Xavier 907 straight times prior to 1995 and now they are our equals. They do not play in NBA joint, have $31 million practice facility, out spend most schools in coach and are small Jesuit school, with small urban campus, with marginal winter weather and next to rednecks. Yet they are equally or more respected on national level.

Am I the only one that finds that troubling?

Those numbers aren't exactly comparing apples to apples, schools account for different things in different ways.  I also don't think people consider us equals with Xavier.  I certainly wouldn't trade places with them, even with their recent tournament success.  I'd much rather go see my team play Big East teams during the season than A-10 teams.

[Pakuni]

Pakuni---We out spend 14 out 15 BE schools and are one hire away from being DePaul. That is taking the program for granted. Being great does not happen only because you spend money. It is a 365 day a year process.

And MU is spending money only 243 days a year?
Seriously, I'm still waiting to hear what exactly the university must do, or isn't doing, to show the commitment you're seeking.

[El Duderino]

Some of the issues MU faces we can do little if anything about.

1. Small, Jesuit School not for everybody
2. Small, downtown urban campus
3. Milwaukee. works for some people, not for others.
4. Weather

5. Top basketball recruits are increasingly from the south and the west, making recruiting more difficult.
6. Relatively small fan base and the lack of PR that goes with that.

MU has done an outstanding job under Fr. Wild with this program. Just look at other Catholic schools and see just how hard it is. Can you say DePaul, Creighton, SLU, SH etc?

Amen.  Frankly I am not sure MU could have done any better with their basketball program as they have over the past 12 years.  Two very good coaches, better facilities, admittance into the BE, success on the court, spending $$ off of it...  What else can MU do?

I was going to post something, but this nails it.

The program is and has been in good shape for a decade plus, especially considering the things is has to overcome and those things won't go away.

If Buzz stays and i think he will, i see lots more continued success for the program.

[uncle zeffy]

Being great does not happen only because you spend money. It is a 365 day a year process.

Let me see if I am understanding you here.

being great does not happen only because you spend money.

But you want to make it a 365 day process buy HIRING a guy to do this?