Let's see if MU can live up to Wisconsin's performance vs Belmont

[Tugg Speedman]

there is a distinct difference between those programs and wisconsin.

If they had won a national championship in the last 10 years with any of those teams i just mentioned then you can say that, but since they haven't you cannot compare them.

congrats they win a lot of games, but when it comes down to it how many championships do they have none... great teams take home the title so don't put them in the category of the supreme elite...

So UCLA and Kentucky are not elite teams because they have not won a NC in the last 10 years.

But Maryland and Florida are elite teams.

What you arguing is the the regular season is nothing but practice and everybody should only be judged by how they do in March on Neutral courts.

Regular season UW has done better than UNC.  That was the standard for making my statement.

[Doris Burkes Thong]

Kansas St. will beat UW. Watch, listen, and see. Belmont is garbage.

[[Mu]EngiNerd]

losers always wine about their best, winner go home and F*ck the prom queen.

It all about the titles.  Nothing less nothing more.

No one can tell you who the runner ups in any of these games are or how many games then won in the regular season.

Look at the patriots they won 18 striaght games and lost to the giants in the super bowl... people barely talk about that season, but they will never stop talking about the patriots 3 other championships....

[Tugg Speedman]

losers always wine about their best, winner go home and F*ck the prom queen.

It all about the titles.  Nothing less nothing more.

No one can tell you who the runner ups in any of these games are or how many games then won in the regular season.

Look at the patriots they won 18 striaght games and lost to the giants in the super bowl... people barely talk about that season, but they will never stop talking about the patriots 3 other championships....

Then say it ... Maryland and Florida are elite programs while UCLA and Kentucky are not.

[brewcity77]

Then say it ... Maryland and Florida are elite programs while UCLA and Kentucky are not.

Maryland is not elite any more. They were at the turn of the century, but I guarantee you any Bucky fan would giddily swap their tournament history over the past decade with Maryland's. Honestly, they'd probably swap their tournament history over the past 50 years with Maryland's past decade.

UCLA, Kentucky, and Florida are all elite and in a class above Wisconsin.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

willie wampum:  making willie warrior look positive since 2/15/11.

[MerrittsMustache]

Maryland is not elite any more. They were at the turn of the century, but I guarantee you any Bucky fan would giddily swap their tournament history over the past decade with Maryland's. Honestly, they'd probably swap their tournament history over the past 50 years with Maryland's past decade.

UCLA, Kentucky, and Florida are all elite and in a class above Wisconsin.

If you look at the last 50 years, Wisconsin doesn't have much of a tournament history.

[[Mu]EngiNerd]

Am I confused or did I make a mistake thinking

teams played the season to get a national championship or make a deep run in the NCAA tourney

or

consistently get him pomroy ratings every year...

[El Duderino]

I might get flamed for this, but since i'm not a Marquette alum, i'm actually a fan of Wisconsin sports, including their basketball, football, and hockey programs. I just like MU basketball a bit more because i live here in Milwaukee. So except for when the two teams play, i cheer for Wisconsin to win, just as i do for all the sports teams in the state.

When i look at the two basketball programs, Bo Ryan definitely has had more success since he took over compared to Marquette, but i don't think the gap is as sizable as the numbers indicate.

Except for the last few years as the Big Ten improved with the addition of quality coaches in Matta at OSU and Painter at Purdue, the Big East has been a better conference and for the first 4-5 years of Ryan's tenure, the Big East was significantly better. I highly doubt that any of Ryan's Big Ten conference winning teams could have won a Big East title. Maybe Ryan's Elite 8 team with Tucker and Harris could have. Maybe. For a number of years, all of Purdue, OSU, Michigan, and Minnesota were down as programs until coaching changes have gotten them better of late.

It's also easier to finish top 3-5 in that conference compared to the Big East given that in most years, the Big Ten has had fewer quality teams. The 3rd or 4th place team in the Big Ten during many of Ryan's years at UW may have finished 5th or 6th in the Big East, especially early in his tenure.

Many won't agree, but for me at least as a fan of both programs, unless either one wins the conference title, i don't care that much if say UW finishes 3rd or 5th and if MU finishes 5th or 8th so long as they make the big dance. Sure it can make the NCAA Tournament chances easier with a better seed, but once you get past the first round, no games are easy. Just get there at least and Marquette has made it 6 straight years, that's far from easy to do given how many programs haven't.

[Tugg Speedman]

Am I confused or did I make a mistake thinking
teams played the season to get a national championship or make a deep run in the NCAA tourney
or
consistently get him pomroy ratings every year...

Looking only at NCAA results is a fine way, then you come to the conclusion that Florida is an elite team.  You agree with this?

[[Mu]EngiNerd]

Yes Flordia has been an elite team in the past 10 years...

Since 2000

2 national championships
1 final 4 appearance
3 conference championships
3 regular season championships...

that is elite

[brewcity77]

Looking only at NCAA results is a fine way, then you come to the conclusion that Florida is an elite team.  You agree with this?

I think that elite is just as much about impression as it is results. UCLA, North Carolina, Duke, Kansas, those are schools that capture the eye as well as the scoreline. They're the type of programs that kids around the country dream of playing for. Florida is that type of program. They have had a top 25 recruiting class in each of the past 4 years according to ESPN. By comparison, UW has had zero top 25 recruiting classes in that time.

Bo gets results, but he doesn't leave a lasting impression. He's not nearly as good a coach in March as he is in January and February. My guess is that he's figured out the Big Ten. Kudos to him, but if he ever wants Wisconsin to be elite (and I'm not convinced he cares) he has to figure out how to do it at this time of year. Being able to play in a manner that convinces the computers is nice and all, but at the end of the year, to be elite, you need results that catch the attention of the nation. Wisconsin hasn't done that once in the past decade. A single Elite 8 does not even remotely make them elite, especially when you consider how they got that Elite 8.

They are consistently good, I'll give you that. And for some, that's enough. Personally, I'd rather shoot for the stars and have a hope of reaching them than simply know you can safely catch a flight to Columbus and call it a season.

[MerrittsMustache]

I think that elite is just as much about impression as it is results. UCLA, North Carolina, Duke, Kansas, those are schools that capture the eye as well as the scoreline. They're the type of programs that kids around the country dream of playing for. Florida is that type of program. They have had a top 25 recruiting class in each of the past 4 years according to ESPN. By comparison, UW has had zero top 25 recruiting classes in that time.

Bo gets results, but he doesn't leave a lasting impression. He's not nearly as good a coach in March as he is in January and February. My guess is that he's figured out the Big Ten. Kudos to him, but if he ever wants Wisconsin to be elite (and I'm not convinced he cares) he has to figure out how to do it at this time of year. Being able to play in a manner that convinces the computers is nice and all, but at the end of the year, to be elite, you need results that catch the attention of the nation. Wisconsin hasn't done that once in the past decade. A single Elite 8 does not even remotely make them elite, especially when you consider how they got that Elite 8.

They are consistently good, I'll give you that. And for some, that's enough. Personally, I'd rather shoot for the stars and have a hope of reaching them than simply know you can safely catch a flight to Columbus and call it a season.

Wisconsin is a perfect place for Bo Ryan. It has become a football-first school and the basketball team had been so bad for so long, that there is not tremendous pressure to win, particularly in March. As long as UW is competitive in the Big Ten then fans, boosters and alums are content. Wisconsin's goal is seemingly to win the Big Ten. The goal of the elite programs is to win the National Championship.

[Mu2323]

I dont mean to stir the pot about wisconsin because this thread is seemingly pointless. High tempo vs low tempo. But Wisconsin probably loses in the championship game 4 years ago if not wins it had brian butch not got injured.

[[Mu]EngiNerd]

elite teams have the depth and injury isn't an excuse...

[Mu2323]

dominic james?

[brewcity77]

dominic james?

Where did anyone say we were elite? Did James' injury cost us a potential run at the Final Four? Sure, I'll agree to that. But we haven't gotten back to elite yet. We were elite in the 70s. Maybe even early 80s, with the hangover of Al. But one Final Four with Wade didn't make us elite. It got us back into the conversation of being a good team, but we're not elite either.

I'm not saying whether Marquette or Wisconsin is better. They have more overall success in the past decade, no doubt, but calling them elite is just silly. And frankly, even though I would say UW has been better than us, we're a lot closer to elite than they are. Bo's system simply won't afford them that status ever.

[Tugg Speedman]

Yes Flordia has been an elite team in the past 10 years...

Since 2000

2 national championships
1 final 4 appearance
3 conference championships
3 regular season championships...

that is elite

So the SEC only has one elite team ... Florida.  Kentucky is not elite?

[leever]

There are too many willies posting on this board.

Any games tonight?

[MUMac]

Where did anyone say we were elite? Did James' injury cost us a potential run at the Final Four? Sure, I'll agree to that. But we haven't gotten back to elite yet. We were elite in the 70s. Maybe even early 80s, with the hangover of Al. But one Final Four with Wade didn't make us elite. It got us back into the conversation of being a good team, but we're not elite either.

I'm not saying whether Marquette or Wisconsin is better. They have more overall success in the past decade, no doubt, but calling them elite is just silly. And frankly, even though I would say UW has been better than us, we're a lot closer to elite than they are. Bo's system simply won't afford them that status ever.

The comment he was responding to said "elite teams have the depth and injury isn't an excuse... "

It depends upon your definition of teams/programs.  Elite teams can be viewed as one season, versus elite programs. 

[brewcity77]

So the SEC only has one elite team ... Florida.  Kentucky is not elite?

Seriously, Another, what are you on about? You're usually pretty rational, but trying to defend UW as an elite program has you trying to dissect every post in here and trying to find ways to put UW over. Where did he say Kentucky wasn't elite? Why are you putting words in people's mouths?

Wisconsin is good. I'd even say very good. But they are not elite. They do not have a national profile befitting an elite basketball school. They do not recruit at an elite level. Why do you feel it is so necessary that they people think they are elite?

[slingkong]

Except for the last few years as the Big Ten improved with the addition of quality coaches in Matta at OSU and Painter at Purdue, the Big East has been a better conference and for the first 4-5 years of Ryan's tenure, the Big East was significantly better.

The Big East has been better since its expansion, is better now, and will continue to be a better basketball conference than is the Big Tweleven. The bottom of the Big East drags down the entire conference, which closes the gap between the Big East and every other conference or results in the Big East being ranked lower than another conference.

(Not saying to trim the fat in the Big East.)

[ringout]

There is no way Wisconsin can be an elite team.  Their NCAA record under Bo Ryan is dismal. 

Early in any coaches career, you can be excited by conference championships, but you need deep runs in the tourny, especially when you continually receive higher seeds.

[Tugg Speedman]

Seriously, Another, what are you on about? You're usually pretty rational, but trying to defend UW as an elite program has you trying to dissect every post in here and trying to find ways to put UW over. Where did he say Kentucky wasn't elite? Why are you putting words in people's mouths?

Ok, let me try this ...

Willie (echoing Chicos and others) like to take shots at MU by saying we are behind UW.  The implication is UW is some non-descript middling kind of basketball program and if MU is worse than that, we are in deep trouble.

What I originally posted was, according to KenPom, UW has been top 10 5 of the last 8 years.  Even UNC has not been top 10 5 of the last 8 years.  So, BY THIS MEASURE, UW has been better than UNC.

UW has been to the NCAA 12 straight years.  Only Kansas (22), Duke (16) and Michigan State (14) have longer streaks.

So, to take a shot at MU that UW is better fails to appreciate how good they have been in recent years.  By these measures not many programs have been better.

For MU to have been better than UW in recent years, we would have to been an elite program.

[GGGG]

Wisconsin is a perfect place for Bo Ryan. It has become a football-first school and the basketball team had been so bad for so long, that there is not tremendous pressure to win, particularly in March. As long as UW is competitive in the Big Ten then fans, boosters and alums are content. Wisconsin's goal is seemingly to win the Big Ten. The goal of the elite programs is to win the National Championship.

I by and large agree with this, but I have heard more rumblings the past couple of years.  Losing to Cornell stung.  If they lose to KSU by being "out-athleted," there are going to be even more grumblings.  If you read the boards after they lost out on JPT, there was a great deal of hand-wringing that for as good as a coach as Bo is, they have basically topped out because Bo can't get enough talent to Wisconsin.

I tell you though, Bo's teams do all the little things right.  Dude can coach.