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Author Topic: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...  (Read 23891 times)

El Duderino

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2011, 11:59:47 PM »
The only thing that puzzles me is WHY BUZZ?!?  Love the guy but he hasn't done ANYTHING.  There are plenty of mid major coaches that have more experience and have accomplished more.  Not sure he won't be there some day but why are teams clawing from him now.  What about Brey?  Guy from Butler?  Nova and Pitt?

I'll throw out some answers which may or may not be true, but just my guesses.

1. Some of the guys you mentioned are coaches that these southern schools likely feel wouldn't be interested in their jobs. Why would a Brey, Wright, or Dixon leave good jobs they already have to move to a southern school where they aren't from and where they really wouldn't have many, if any recruiting contacts? Buzz on the other hand is from the south and has tons of recruiting contacts down there.

2. As for why Buzz over any number of mid-major coaches who become hot commodities after a good tournament run or two is that mid-major coaches can come with risk also. They have to build their teams by often recruiting from the 1-2-3 star pool and the ones that tend to fail once they get a major conference job are the guys who struggled to be able to recruit in the 3-4-5 star pool that is required generally to win in the major conferences. Buzz at least has shown that he can recruit as an assistant and now as a head coach, that's at least half the battle or more.

3. The top tier proven coaches are rarely available, much less for a job at a place like Texas Tech, Oklahoma, or Arkansas. I'm not implying that Arkansas or Oklahoma have no national appeal because they have some, but not to attract the top 10-20 proven coaches in the country in most cases unless their is a geographical tie.

So their likely options are guys like Mike Anderson or Buzz types at the big conference level or dip back into the mid-major ranks. I'm sure Arkansas would have multiple reasons to prefer Anderson, but if he said no, they could look at Buzz and say he's lead a non-elite program like Marquette to three straight NCAA Tournament bids while our coach couldn't do that at a state school which also is in a major conference like the SEC or Big 12. Mix in there have been no off the court issues at all and Buzz's strong recruiting ties in the south to the point he's been able to get multiple southern kids to come to a cold weather city in the midwest, they'd probably would hope/believe that Buzz could excel even more as a recruiter by coaching in that region of the country.

NersEllenson

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2011, 08:42:46 AM »
He LOVES his players, but he REALLY LOVES $$$.

People will panic, but we'll be better for it in the long run.  Bring in a good bench coach this time please.

Yeah..that's the solution..another Mike Deane who can't recruit to keep us competitive in a league like C-USA.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

NersEllenson

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2011, 08:52:49 AM »
The only thing that puzzles me is WHY BUZZ?!?  Love the guy but he hasn't done ANYTHING.  There are plenty of mid major coaches that have more experience and have accomplished more.  Not sure he won't be there some day but why are teams clawing from him now.  What about Brey?  Guy from Butler?  Nova and Pitt?  Honestly, I am pretty sure Buzz makes decent coin from MU.  I can't imagine someone offering him more based on his resume.  The only way I see him bouncing is for a dream job.  And I think that's Texas. 

Even if he left for dream job or money, I would have no issue with it.  Just do it the right way.  Keep your players and MU in the loop.

WHY BUZZ??  Because most anyone in college basketball circles feels Buzz has done a remarkable job with the MU program, given the challenges faced in Year 2 and 3 in his tenure.  Plus, he's shown an ability to recruit high level talent to a difficult place like MU.  Plus his kids have been very well behaved, graduated, and Buzz has been a good ambassador of the university.  He's done this in the Big East - the most challenging and difficult conference in the country...which has infinitely more value than a coach who has done well at an Old Dominion or Missouri State.  He's shown he can get the job done at the highest level of CBB.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

Pakuni

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2011, 09:34:21 AM »
The classic preemptive breakup strategy.

Cottingham: So, I am have to going to break up with you.

Buzz: You're breaking up with me?

Cottingham: I ... am breaking up with ... you.

Buzz: Wow.

Cottingham: Shocked?

Buzz: I really am.

Cottingham: Never expected this did you?

Buzz: I thought everything was fine.

Cottingham: Well, live and learn.

Buzz: I don't understand. You're breaking up with me. Didn't we have fun going to three straight NCAA tournaments?

Cottingham: Kind of.

Buzz: I'm very confused.

Cottingham: Well, I didn't mean to hurt you kid.


bilsu

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2011, 10:05:29 AM »
This is all part of getting a new contract. It is to Buzz's advantage that MU has to worry about other teams wanting him. Has nothing to do with whether Buzz has any interest in going. He lose a big bargaining chip, if he said he flat out was not interested.

MerrittsMustache

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2011, 10:35:16 AM »
I am a Buzz Williams fan. I think he's an excellent recruiter, an ever-improving game coach and an outstanding ambassador for Marquette University. He brings in players who are quality people, committed students and hard-working athletes. I hope he's still the coach at MU when my sons go there...in the fall of 2027  ;)

That being said, if he takes a job that he feels is better for himself and his family, I'd have no problem with it. If someone offered you a job for more money, better benefits and was closer to your home, wouldn't you take it? I know I would. Actually, I know I did. Many fans seem to take it personally when a coach leaves their team/school for a better offer, but rarely bat an eye when someone from their company does the same thing for the same reasons.

I felt like the problem so many people seem to have with Crean is not that he left, but the way he left. If TC had met with the administration and the team prior to them learning about his departure on TV, I felt like many fans would not have such animosity towards him...but after reading some recent posts in regards to Buzz (who is still MU's coach, by the way), I'm not so sure. Though I'm not a particularly big fan of Crean, it seems strange to me that there's such hatred for a coach who brought in MU's greatest player and went to the Final Four, but there's almost complete indifference to coaches like Dukiet and Deane who ran the program into anonymity. Aren't those the coaches we should be upset with?

I guess what I'm saying is that if Buzz feels like it's in his best interest to move on, I have no problem with it and I'd wish him the best...but I really hope that he stays at Marquette for a long, long time.

Niv Berkowitz

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2011, 11:30:51 AM »
+1,000,000

NCMUFan

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2011, 11:35:48 AM »
Let's see, if he splits for another job, good for him.  I think the Marquette gig is great.  Some say it is a stepping stone.  I guess for those folks they may be the stepping stones just projecting.

Goose

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2011, 11:39:30 AM »
It is only a stepping stone job because we hire relative unknowns. Hire a Tubby Smith or Steve Lavin and this is a destination job. We open ourselves up to guys leaving because of who we hire, not what we are. This is a job a guy could stay ten years very easily...just hire that type of guy.


tower912

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2011, 11:46:14 AM »
That guy may not want to come here, Goose.   If Buzz leaves (I still don't think he does) the logical guy to put here long term is Wardle.   MU ties.   The question is whether or not he is ready or can coach at this level.   Which is the exact same question we had with Buzz and Crean and Deane and ONeil and Dukiet and Majerus and Raymonds and Al.   The two guys who had the best resumes when they arrived are Dukiet and Deane.   Kennedy looked like a good hire at DePaul.    Davis looked like a good hire for Providence.   Pelphrey and Capel both looked like good hires at the time.    Pretty clear we got the best of the 2008 shallow pool.    This year, it is even more shallow.   Heck, Buzz could go to OU and Pelphrey could be the best we can find.     It is the best for everyone on this board if Buzz stays.   Programs are built by coaches who stay.   Unless of course your want Calipari.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 11:50:16 AM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

NersEllenson

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2011, 11:57:56 AM »
That guy may not want to come here, Goose.   If Buzz leaves (I still don't think he does) the logical guy to put here long term is Wardle.   MU ties.   The question is whether or not he is ready or can coach at this level.   Which is the exact same question we had with Buzz and Crean and Deane and ONeil and Dukiet and Majerus and Raymonds and Al.   The two guys who had the best resumes when they arrived are Dukiet and Deane.   Kennedy looked like a good hire at DePaul.    Davis looked like a good hire for Providence.   Pelphrey and Capel both looked like good hires at the time.    Pretty clear we got the best of the 2008 shallow pool.    This year, it is even more shallow.   Heck, Buzz could go to OU and Pelphrey could be the best we can find.     It is the best for everyone on this board if Buzz stays.   Programs are built by coaches who stay.   Unless of course your want Calipari.

To me the biggest question about Wardle or any other candidate is more of:  can he recruit at this level??  That HAS to be priority Number 1 for MU.  O'Neill, Crean and Buzz were all known as good recruiters - they all got the MU job based on their reps are recruiters.  Talent wins games by and large...great coaching can probably steal you 2-4 wins over the course of a season.  Great talent can win you 20-25 games.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

Goose

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2011, 12:23:31 PM »
Brian Wardle----COME ON. We are BE team with long history. I am hoping people that suggest names like that are doing it to piss people off. Wardle makes Buzz look like Coach K.

tower912

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2011, 12:29:21 PM »
It's a shallow pool.   That is why Buzz is so popular.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Goose

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #63 on: March 16, 2011, 12:42:06 PM »
Tower---That is not a pool that is an empty hole. I want to make new memories on MU ball and hiring wardle will not make that happen. Reach for the stars...never know what can happen.

GGGG

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #64 on: March 16, 2011, 12:53:26 PM »
That guy may not want to come here, Goose.   If Buzz leaves (I still don't think he does) the logical guy to put here long term is Wardle.   MU ties.   


Ugh...the worst thing we should do is over-inflate a candidate because they have "MU ties."  No other BE program would even consider Wardle...so why should we?  Because he went to school here? 

That is why UNC hired Doherty...NCSU hired Lowe...

Don't get me wrong, hiring an alum *who is otherwise the best candidate* is a great thing.  Williams at Maryland is an example.

TheFarEastMovement

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #65 on: March 16, 2011, 12:59:36 PM »
I have said this earlier but if Buzz leaves, how does Dino Gaudio sound as a replacement? I hope Buzz stays because I like what he has done at MU.

GGGG

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2011, 01:04:01 PM »
If we are going the "ACC retread" route, which I don't think we should do, I would rather have Al Skinner.

ErickJD08

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #67 on: March 16, 2011, 01:26:23 PM »
WHY BUZZ??  Because most anyone in college basketball circles feels Buzz has done a remarkable job with the MU program, given the challenges faced in Year 2 and 3 in his tenure.  Plus, he's shown an ability to recruit high level talent to a difficult place like MU.  Plus his kids have been very well behaved, graduated, and Buzz has been a good ambassador of the university.  He's done this in the Big East - the most challenging and difficult conference in the country...which has infinitely more value than a coach who has done well at an Old Dominion or Missouri State.  He's shown he can get the job done at the highest level of CBB.

I think he is doing a great job.  But he hasn't accomplished anything.  His only accomplish (to today) is that he hasn't sunk a ship.  He has won no championships (regular season or tourney) and he has won one game in two years in the big dance.  In five years (regardless of where he is), do I think it will be more impressive?  Yes.  Would I write a 8 figure check betting that it will?  NO!  There are plenty of other guys that are more proven.  Love Buzz but I think any program would be stupid to poach Buzz at this stage.
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PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2011, 01:39:00 PM »
If we are going the "ACC retread" route, which I don't think we should do, I would rather have Al Skinner.
Al Skinner!?!?! Holy sh*t! Are you freaking out of your mind? He was a horrendous coach and an even worse recruiter. The dude didn't even try. If we even interviewed him I would relinquish my season tickets.

NersEllenson

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #69 on: March 16, 2011, 01:57:15 PM »
I think he is doing a great job.  But he hasn't accomplished anything.  His only accomplish (to today) is that he hasn't sunk a ship.  He has won no championships (regular season or tourney) and he has won one game in two years in the big dance.  In five years (regardless of where he is), do I think it will be more impressive?  Yes.  Would I write a 8 figure check betting that it will?  NO!  There are plenty of other guys that are more proven.  Love Buzz but I think any program would be stupid to poach Buzz at this stage.

We generally agree on a lot of points JDO - but greatly differ here.  OU and Arkansas certainly don't think it is stupid to poach Buzz, nor do most respected college basketball writers and personalities.  He is a hot commodity.

I disagree that there are "plenty of other guys that are more proved," that could be recruited away from their schools.  MU has been a Top 25-35 program these last 2 REBUILDING YEARS.  Buzz had exactly 4 players on the roster to start his 2nd year here - granted he couldn't retain Christopherson or Mbawke - which would have made it 6....but to expect a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 by this time is really, really, really, optimistic..or naive.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

warthog-driver

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #70 on: March 16, 2011, 02:21:53 PM »
If Cottingham finds out there is any truth to "feelers" being put out, I would have no problem with him firing Buzz Williams. And I like Buzz.

One of my other Alma Maters had a real man at the helm. When Bill Frieder took the ASU job before the Dance, and then expected to coach Blue through the Tourney, Bo took all of two seconds to straighten out Mr Frieder's incorrect assumption as to what was appropriate. Bo put it best: "A Michigan Man will coach Michigan." Steve Fischer then took Blue all the way to the top over the next three weeks. I recall reading that Frieder actually showed up at the Championship game and tried to speak with the players. He was told to take a hike. 

ErickJD08

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2011, 02:38:32 PM »
We generally agree on a lot of points JDO - but greatly differ here.  OU and Arkansas certainly don't think it is stupid to poach Buzz, nor do most respected college basketball writers and personalities.  He is a hot commodity.

I disagree that there are "plenty of other guys that are more proved," that could be recruited away from their schools.  MU has been a Top 25-35 program these last 2 REBUILDING YEARS.  Buzz had exactly 4 players on the roster to start his 2nd year here - granted he couldn't retain Christopherson or Mbawke - which would have made it 6....but to expect a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 by this time is really, really, really, optimistic..or naive.

Buzz is one of the highest paid coaches in college basketball.  Sorry, but no one is going to pay more money than us at this stage.  His resume just doesn't warrant it.  Sorry, but it doesn't.  We can agree to disagree on this one.
Wanna learn how to say "@#(@# (@*" in a dozen languages... go to Professor Crass www.professorcrass.com

GGGG

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2011, 03:01:54 PM »
Al Skinner!?!?! Holy sh*t! Are you freaking out of your mind? He was a horrendous coach and an even worse recruiter. The dude didn't even try. If we even interviewed him I would relinquish my season tickets.


I take it you disagree with me.  ;-)

4everwarriors

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2011, 03:04:10 PM »
Brian Wardle----COME ON. We are BE team with long history. I am hoping people that suggest names like that are doing it to piss people off. Wardle makes Buzz look like Coach K.


Profound man, simply profound. Wardle? WTF, I like my chances coaching MU vs. his.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 03:06:06 PM by 4everwarriors »
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mviale

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Re: I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2011, 06:40:09 PM »
This is all part of getting a new contract. It is to Buzz's advantage that MU has to worry about other teams wanting him. Has nothing to do with whether Buzz has any interest in going. He lose a big bargaining chip, if he said he flat out was not interested.
Everyone here has pulled this card.  Cant lose
You heard it here first. Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year.
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