MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: jt92 on March 15, 2011, 07:49:36 PM
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before Friday's game if he is not committed to sticking around. Enough of this tip-toeing around the issue. It's a major distraction. MU pours more money into their basketball program than any in the Big East...that's what you call committment, if Buzz can't shut everyone up by saying that he is here for the long term then Mr. C. should pull the plug now. I am sick of this BS. What else do you want Buzz? One thing is for certain another coach wouldn't blow an 18 point lead with under 6 to play.
I am sorry...every year I get excited for the NCAA's only to have it tempered by a coach putting feelers out for his next job rather than getting his team ready to play.
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I don't think that two days before the tournament Buzz needs to comment one way or the other. As far as we know is it him that is putting this all out there? No, its Andy Katz and Doug Gotlieb and the such. Let them do what they're supposed to do which is what they're doing and let Buzz do what he needs to do which is getting his team ready for Friday. The fact that some fans feel like we deserve some kind of constant reassurance amazes me.
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Yeah got to love to hear buzz telling his players before the X game. Play hard for me so I can get more money thru an extention or new job. Win one for me fellas so I can leave ya.
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I am sorry...every year I get excited for the NCAA's only to have it tempered by a coach putting feelers out for his next job rather than getting his team ready to play.
Since you must know Buzz well enough to know that he's "putting feelers out for his next job" instead of focusing on getting his players ready to play Friday, why waste everyone's time with this post and just tell us what his plans are given all your inside knowledge.
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He LOVES his players, but he REALLY LOVES $$$.
People will panic, but we'll be better for it in the long run. Bring in a good bench coach this time please.
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Is this supposed to be in teal? Is Buzz in control of what every college basketball pundit says about his future? What a stupid thread.
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Remind me never to go hunting with jt92.....you got one itchy trigger finger.
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Is this supposed to be in teal? Is Buzz in control of what every college basketball pundit says about his future? What a stupid thread.
My post should be in a very dark teal for now, but then changed to black if he leaves.
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I think Cottingham should tell Buzz to take a hike...
...to your house and tell you to calm down! lol
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I don't need reassurance but the ones who do are potential recruits. They want stability... they want to know that the coach that recruited them is going to be around for their 4 years. Don't think for a second that Bo Cryan isn't going to pounce on this by telling recruits that Buzz isn't committed to MU. Fans who don't think coaching stability plays a role in recruiting is what amazes me.
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He LOVES his players, but he REALLY LOVES $$$.
People will panic, but we'll be better for it in the long run. Bring in a good bench coach this time please.
How would we be better? If you want to cement MU as a training ground, have at it. He leaves and it sucks for the program.
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And I think people worrying about this and clogging the forums with it should take a break until after the tournament. Focus on the game. It's the best time of year for college basketball fans
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If Cottingham finds out there is any truth to "feelers" being put out, I would have no problem with him firing Buzz Williams. And I like Buzz.
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All he has to do is say "I'm not going anywhere I am committed to MU." That's it. He dances around the question. This is all his doing. Don't blame the commentators, blame him. He can extinguish this but he refuses to do it. Becasue of that I think many of us who do care about the program have a right to be po'd right now.
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I don't need reassurance but the ones who do are potential recruits. They want stability... they want to know that the coach that recruited them is going to be around for their 4 years. Don't think for a second that Bo Cryan isn't going to pounce on this by telling recruits that Buzz isn't committed to MU. Fans who don't think coaching stability plays a role in recruiting is what amazes me.
And this post helps that effort how!?! ?-(
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If Cottingham finds out there is any truth to "feelers" being put out, I would have no problem with him firing Buzz Williams. And I like Buzz.
And I mean immediately. Before Friday.
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Yeah, I really want to see Scott Monarch coach these guys in the NCAA tourney.
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After reading the idiocy of this thread, I would more than understand if Buzz were to leave for one of those jobs next week.
And no, I didn't mean for that to be in teal.
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I read it as classic Buzz.... "I've been totally open and honest with your for 3 years, I've said I'm staying here as long as you want me, this is annoying as all hell to have to respond to year after year and I'm not going to say something just to satisfy all the message board coaches on MuScoop. The people that need to know (recruits, players, family), and those who trust me know I'm staying put because I've given them everything I have for 3 years showing I love it here."
That could be just the optimist in me and I reserve the right to change my view of what he said.
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If Cottingham finds out there is any truth to "feelers" being put out, I would have no problem with him firing Buzz Williams. And I like Buzz.
I agree. You can't have someone preaching truth and honesty and then playing these games after stating he'll be at MU as long as MU will have him. I don't have any use for that. If he doesn't mean that, then he shouldn't say it...especially with the way he promotes honesty, morals and ethics. Here's to hoping that he is honest, moral and ethical!
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I read it as classic Buzz.... "I've been totally open and honest with your for 3 years, I've said I'm staying here as long as you want me, this is annoying as all hell to have to respond to year after year and I'm not going to say something just to satisfy all the message board coaches on MuScoop. The people that need to know (recruits, players, family), and those who trust me know I'm staying put because I've given them everything I have for 3 years showing I love it here."
That could be just the optimist in me and I reserve the right to change my view of what he said.
I got that feeling early on in all of this as well...seemed like he was a bit annoyed with the lack of trust in him...hope it's true.
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Yeah, I really want to see Scott Monarch coach these guys in the NCAA tourney.
Well if history repeats and buzz leaves after the season cott will wait 72 hours and then hire whatever asst coach is left behind.
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I agree. You can't have someone preaching truth and honesty and then playing these games after stating he'll be at MU as long as MU will have him. I don't have any use for that. If he doesn't mean that, then he shouldn't say it...especially with the way he promotes honesty, morals and ethics. Here's to hoping that he is honest, moral and ethical!
This is a business. You guys take coaches too seriously, 95% of these guys sold their soul when they had to start recruiting. If he leaves for another job I won't think ill of him but then again I never put him up on a moral pedestal just because he claims morality and honesty. You guys need to stop viewing coaches like they're priests or something. Always just look at the actions. Words are cheap.
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before Friday's game if he is not committed to sticking around. Enough of this tip-toeing around the issue. It's a major distraction. MU pours more money into their basketball program than any in the Big East...that's what you call committment, if Buzz can't shut everyone up by saying that he is here for the long term then Mr. C. should pull the plug now. I am sick of this BS. What else do you want Buzz? One thing is for certain another coach wouldn't blow an 18 point lead with under 6 to play.
I am sorry...every year I get excited for the NCAA's only to have it tempered by a coach putting feelers out for his next job rather than getting his team ready to play.
Wow, what an awesome post... Do you throw out apples, because they eventually will become cores?
Have a little patience and let's see how this plays out... enjoy the ride of our 6th straight tourney appearance. If you think that this gossip and speculation is a distraction, imagine if MU was actually going to follow-through with your "shoot first" idea. Do you really think finding a new head coach the day before the tourney would help us?
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Well if history repeats and buzz leaves after the season cott will wait 72 hours and then hire whatever asst coach is left behind.
Buzz was a very hot commodity in the coaching business when C-ham hired him. He earned a lot of respect among knowledgeable basketball people, no the average stiff might not know what he was all about. I'd say Cottinham's hire has been rather successful to this point, so I'm not sure why you're taking shots at Cottingham. If anything he's proven he knows a hell of a lot more than you or me.
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Buzz was a very hot commodity in the coaching business when C-ham hired him. He earned a lot of respect among knowledgeable basketball people, no the average stiff might not know what he was all about. I'd say Cottinham's hire has been rather successful to this point, so I'm not sure why you're taking shots at Cottingham. If anything he's proven he knows a hell of a lot more than you or me.
He was a very hot commodity? Not as a head coach he wasn't. Asst Coach, yes, but not at that time as a head coach. If he didn't get the MU job he was off to Indiana to be an asst with Crean.
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Is it just me, or is it ridiculous how many people claim to know what Buzz is thinking.
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He was known by many a AD and the word about Buzz's work ethic and recruiting really impressed many people in the know. I had heard glowing things about Buzz way back when he was an assistant to Gillispie. His name was getting around a lot, just cause you fellas never heard of him doesn't mean respectable coaches like your boy Crean weren't eager to hire him, they were. Be it Crean or Gillispie. ...and Cottingham was eager to hire him too after viewing his work ethic and recruiting skills in person. It worked for Xavier with Sean Miller, Pitt with Jamie Dixon, if you've got a guy who you think is special as an assistant why not make that hire?
And what do you know he was right in who he wanted and you were wrong. Not really a surprise because he's much more in a position of knowledge than any of us are.
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Man, some of you here may as well hope for Marquette basketball to be extremely mediocre or even suck because regardless if Buzz ends up staying/going, odds are that whoever replaces him will also have other programs sniffing around him if that guy makes regular appearances to the NCAA Tournament along with not having off the court problems.
That guy likely would then give the same avoidance type of answers that both O'Neill and Crean gave when their names would pop up in the media over job openings linking them to, and now Buzz has.
If in turn our AD demanded an immediate promise to stay or else you're fired edict each time the media said other schools were interested in our coach, good luck trying to keep anyone here that actually wins games. May as well instead look to find the next Mike Dean who can be mediocre enough to sell tickets, but not be good enough to ever generate the interest from other schools looking for a new coach.
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This is a business. You guys take coaches too seriously, 95% of these guys sold their soul when they had to start recruiting. If he leaves for another job I won't think ill of him but then again I never put him up on a moral pedestal just because he claims morality and honesty. You guys need to stop viewing coaches like they're priests or something. Always just look at the actions. Words are cheap.
I know many ethical people in business that don't lie. I would never compare my position to Buzz's position, but when I get asked by my board if I'm staying, I certainly don't lie, and I've never said anything like "I'll stay as long as you'll have me" because I'd be full of $hit. I don't want to hear about Buzz's Sunday night life lessons if he's teaching kids that in "business" anything goes to make a $.
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Man, some of you here may as well hope for Marquette basketball to be extremely mediocre or even suck because regardless if Buzz ends up staying/going, odds are that whoever replaces him will also have other programs sniffing around him if that guy makes regular appearances to the NCAA Tournament along with not having off the court problems.
That guy likely would then give the same avoidance type of answers that both O'Neill and Crean gave when their names would pop up in the media over job openings linking them to, and now Buzz has.
If in turn our AD demanded an immediate promise to stay or else you're fired edict each time the media said other schools were interested in our coach, good luck trying to keep anyone here that actually wins games. May as well instead look to find the next Mike Dean who can be mediocre enough to sell tickets, but not be good enough to ever generate the interest from other schools looking for a new coach.
My thoughts exactly. If Buzz is getting looked at it is a good thing
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I read it as classic Buzz.... "I've been totally open and honest with your for 3 years, I've said I'm staying here as long as you want me, this is annoying as all hell to have to respond to year after year and I'm not going to say something just to satisfy all the message board coaches on MuScoop. The people that need to know (recruits, players, family), and those who trust me know I'm staying put because I've given them everything I have for 3 years showing I love it here."
That could be just the optimist in me and I reserve the right to change my view of what he said.
I don't recall, did the Administration demonstrate any reciprocity by responding, "Buzz, since you've stated this level of commitment to us, we will publicly state that we will retain you as head coach for as long as you want to be our head coach." No!?! So why are so many of you holding him to this statement so literally?
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Can someone coherently tell me why everyone is hitting the panic button.
There is a basketball game to focus on. We are playing in the NCAA's. Where would you want this program to be?
To hell is Katz Gottlieb and Parrish, they want you to read an article.
And why would Cottingham fire Buzz because people are interested in talking to him?
Relax
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Can someone coherently tell me why everyone is hitting the panic button.
There is a basketball game to focus on. We are playing in the NCAA's. Where would you want this program to be?
To hell with Katz, Gottlieb and Parrish, they want you to read an article.
And why would Cottingham fire Buzz because people are interested in talking to him?
Relax
+1, well said
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Can someone coherently tell me why everyone is hitting the panic button.
Honestly, I'm gone from here for a few hours, and I come back to this... Panic is the right word. People need to calm down here.
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He was known by many a AD and the word about Buzz's work ethic and recruiting really impressed many people in the know.
True dat. UCONN's AD, Jeffrey A. Hathaway, was Buzz's AD at CSU. Cot did his homework.
Money will not be an issue for MU. Opportunity will, including the family. Why would Buzz comment on jobs not even offered yet? If you listen to the gossip, it is these guys speculating. It is Tubby one hour, Anderson the next, Buzz the next. Throw in Pitino, Brey and a few others. Goldman is closest to Buzz and he qualifies his spec on Buzz.
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Can someone coherently tell me why everyone is hitting the panic button.
Not panicking, but I think it boils down to this.
Two of his friends in the national media are floating his name out there. He's sidestepping the issue, which is a distinct change in tone from "I'll be here as long as they'll have me." Throw in a dash of burned three years ago and that is what is causing it.
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http://www.youtube.com/v/5hfYJsQAhl0?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0
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True dat. UCONN's AD, Jeffrey A. Hathaway, was Buzz's AD at CSU. Cot did his homework.
Money will not be an issue for MU. Opportunity will, including the family. Why would Buzz comment on jobs not even offered yet? If you listen to the gossip, it is these guys speculating. It is Tubby one hour, Anderson the next, Buzz the next. Throw in Pitino, Brey and a few others. Goldman is closest to Buzz and he qualifies his spec on Buzz.
There's a difference between AD's knowing who he was and ready to hire him as the head coach that year. Some AD's, one of which is a dear friend of mine in Texas, were surprised to see Buzz hired at MU so quickly. Some even shocked. That doesn't mean they didn't respect him or think he could do the job, but they didn't think the timing would happen the way it did at a high major.
A number of elite basketball writers said the same thing. Let's not confuse knowing who a good recruiting asst coach was to handing over the keys to a major program. There's a reason Buzz started at UNO.
Take a trip down memory lane with articles by Seth Davis, Luke Winn, Mike DeCourcey, Andy Katz, etc on the hire. Almost universal agreement that it was a risky hire, even a "surprising" hire.
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Not panicking, but I think it boils down to this.
Two of his friends in the national media are floating his name out there. He's sidestepping the issue, which is a distinct change in tone from "I'll be here as long as they'll have me." Throw in a dash of burned three years ago and that is what is causing it.
yeah got to hand it to him. He has put himself in a pretty position even though his record has declined each year as he moves further away from the crean players and has to depend more and more on his own players. Well played.
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There's a difference between AD's knowing who he was and ready to hire him as the head coach that year. Some AD's, one of which is a dear friend of mine in Texas, were surprised to see Buzz hired at MU so quickly. Some even shocked. That doesn't mean they didn't respect him or think he could do the job, but they didn't think the timing would happen the way it did at a high major.
A number of elite basketball writers said the same thing. Let's not confuse knowing who a good recruiting asst coach was to handing over the keys to a major program. There's a reason Buzz started at UNO.
Take a trip down memory lane with articles by Seth Davis, Luke Winn, Mike DeCourcey, Andy Katz, etc on the hire. Almost universal agreement that it was a risky hire, even a "surprising" hire.
Maybe the AD who was his boss at CSU knew a little more about him than your friend at Houston...especially since Cottingham works with him in the BE? And many of those same hoops quipsters are hawking him three short seasons later. They are sure the ultimate insiders...what is their track record on all their internet gossip?
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before Friday's game if he is not committed to sticking around. Enough of this tip-toeing around the issue. It's a major distraction. MU pours more money into their basketball program than any in the Big East...that's what you call committment, if Buzz can't shut everyone up by saying that he is here for the long term then Mr. C. should pull the plug now. I am sick of this BS. What else do you want Buzz? One thing is for certain another coach wouldn't blow an 18 point lead with under 6 to play.
I am sorry...every year I get excited for the NCAA's only to have it tempered by a coach putting feelers out for his next job rather than getting his team ready to play.
Dumbest post! You should take a hike!!!
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Maybe the AD who was his boss at CSU knew a little more about him than your friend at Houston...especially since Cottingham works with him in the BE? And many of those same hoops quipsters are hawking him three short seasons later. They are sure the ultimate insiders...what is their track record on all their internet gossip?
One of those four is "hawking" him, but I wouldn't even say that if you read Katz's articles, he's hardly hawking anyone. The "hawkers" are those that are saying coach X would be perfect at destination Y.
There's a difference between reporting rumors and hawking someone for a job.
Again, I hope Buzz is here for a long time. Means stability for the program. If he leaves, well we'll know that "I'll be here for as long at MU will have me" is just crap and example number 10000 of coach speak by all these coaches.
I don't know if I would put a lot of stock in Jeff Hathaway, UCONN's AD....we're not talking about the cleanest program around. Their football coach, Edsall, recently left was not exactly endearing to Mr. Hathaway either.
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Maybe Buzz just wants to strengthen his contract extension negotiating position...
Can we get back to the game...I mean the basketball game!!!
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One of those four is "hawking" him, but I wouldn't even say that if you read Katz's articles, he's hardly hawking anyone. The "hawkers" are those that are saying coach X would be perfect at destination Y.
There's a difference between reporting rumors and hawking someone for a job.
Again, I hope Buzz is here for a long time. Means stability for the program. If he leaves, well we'll know that "I'll be here for as long at MU will have me" is just crap and example number 10000 of coach speak by all these coaches.
If you count your "etc.", three are hawking him. What is any of their track records on coaching gossip? I am guessing that Albert the Alley Cat had a better record predicting the weather.
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If you count your "etc.", three are hawking him. What is any of their track records on coaching gossip? I am guessing that Albert the Alley Cat had a better record predicting the weather.
I don't believe those other two that you are mentioning had anything to say about Buzz hiring 3 years ago.
I have no idea on what their track record is on the internet rumors. I'd rather read their viewpoints post coaching changes than chasing down the rumors, which is all this stuff is at this point.
Hope he stays.
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The only thing that puzzles me is WHY BUZZ?!? Love the guy but he hasn't done ANYTHING. There are plenty of mid major coaches that have more experience and have accomplished more. Not sure he won't be there some day but why are teams clawing from him now. What about Brey? Guy from Butler? Nova and Pitt? Honestly, I am pretty sure Buzz makes decent coin from MU. I can't imagine someone offering him more based on his resume. The only way I see him bouncing is for a dream job. And I think that's Texas.
Even if he left for dream job or money, I would have no issue with it. Just do it the right way. Keep your players and MU in the loop.
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http://www.youtube.com/v/5hfYJsQAhl0?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0
That is awesome
I wish i had known about that youtube clip last year when on this Packers forum i go to, a bunch of the posters half way through the season were trying to tell everyone else with a brain that the Packers needed to fire McCarthy if they ever wanted to get to the playoffs and win a Super Bowl.
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The only thing that puzzles me is WHY BUZZ?!? Love the guy but he hasn't done ANYTHING. There are plenty of mid major coaches that have more experience and have accomplished more. Not sure he won't be there some day but why are teams clawing from him now. What about Brey? Guy from Butler? Nova and Pitt? Honestly, I am pretty sure Buzz makes decent coin from MU. I can't imagine someone offering him more based on his resume. The only way I see him bouncing is for a dream job. And I think that's Texas.
Even if he left for dream job or money, I would have no issue with it. Just do it the right way. Keep your players and MU in the loop.
Buzz wont leave. He has built a family. However, he would be stupid to not leverage this for more money.
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I am not even going to read this topic because it is so idiotic.
He's currently the coach of the Marquette Warriors, if he isn't the coach next year so be it. I am pretty sure he is more focused on Xavier than phone calls from the south.
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The only thing that puzzles me is WHY BUZZ?!? Love the guy but he hasn't done ANYTHING. There are plenty of mid major coaches that have more experience and have accomplished more. Not sure he won't be there some day but why are teams clawing from him now. What about Brey? Guy from Butler? Nova and Pitt?
I'll throw out some answers which may or may not be true, but just my guesses.
1. Some of the guys you mentioned are coaches that these southern schools likely feel wouldn't be interested in their jobs. Why would a Brey, Wright, or Dixon leave good jobs they already have to move to a southern school where they aren't from and where they really wouldn't have many, if any recruiting contacts? Buzz on the other hand is from the south and has tons of recruiting contacts down there.
2. As for why Buzz over any number of mid-major coaches who become hot commodities after a good tournament run or two is that mid-major coaches can come with risk also. They have to build their teams by often recruiting from the 1-2-3 star pool and the ones that tend to fail once they get a major conference job are the guys who struggled to be able to recruit in the 3-4-5 star pool that is required generally to win in the major conferences. Buzz at least has shown that he can recruit as an assistant and now as a head coach, that's at least half the battle or more.
3. The top tier proven coaches are rarely available, much less for a job at a place like Texas Tech, Oklahoma, or Arkansas. I'm not implying that Arkansas or Oklahoma have no national appeal because they have some, but not to attract the top 10-20 proven coaches in the country in most cases unless their is a geographical tie.
So their likely options are guys like Mike Anderson or Buzz types at the big conference level or dip back into the mid-major ranks. I'm sure Arkansas would have multiple reasons to prefer Anderson, but if he said no, they could look at Buzz and say he's lead a non-elite program like Marquette to three straight NCAA Tournament bids while our coach couldn't do that at a state school which also is in a major conference like the SEC or Big 12. Mix in there have been no off the court issues at all and Buzz's strong recruiting ties in the south to the point he's been able to get multiple southern kids to come to a cold weather city in the midwest, they'd probably would hope/believe that Buzz could excel even more as a recruiter by coaching in that region of the country.
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He LOVES his players, but he REALLY LOVES $$$.
People will panic, but we'll be better for it in the long run. Bring in a good bench coach this time please.
Yeah..that's the solution..another Mike Deane who can't recruit to keep us competitive in a league like C-USA.
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The only thing that puzzles me is WHY BUZZ?!? Love the guy but he hasn't done ANYTHING. There are plenty of mid major coaches that have more experience and have accomplished more. Not sure he won't be there some day but why are teams clawing from him now. What about Brey? Guy from Butler? Nova and Pitt? Honestly, I am pretty sure Buzz makes decent coin from MU. I can't imagine someone offering him more based on his resume. The only way I see him bouncing is for a dream job. And I think that's Texas.
Even if he left for dream job or money, I would have no issue with it. Just do it the right way. Keep your players and MU in the loop.
WHY BUZZ?? Because most anyone in college basketball circles feels Buzz has done a remarkable job with the MU program, given the challenges faced in Year 2 and 3 in his tenure. Plus, he's shown an ability to recruit high level talent to a difficult place like MU. Plus his kids have been very well behaved, graduated, and Buzz has been a good ambassador of the university. He's done this in the Big East - the most challenging and difficult conference in the country...which has infinitely more value than a coach who has done well at an Old Dominion or Missouri State. He's shown he can get the job done at the highest level of CBB.
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The classic preemptive breakup strategy.
Cottingham: So, I am have to going to break up with you.
Buzz: You're breaking up with me?
Cottingham: I ... am breaking up with ... you.
Buzz: Wow.
Cottingham: Shocked?
Buzz: I really am.
Cottingham: Never expected this did you?
Buzz: I thought everything was fine.
Cottingham: Well, live and learn.
Buzz: I don't understand. You're breaking up with me. Didn't we have fun going to three straight NCAA tournaments?
Cottingham: Kind of.
Buzz: I'm very confused.
Cottingham: Well, I didn't mean to hurt you kid.
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This is all part of getting a new contract. It is to Buzz's advantage that MU has to worry about other teams wanting him. Has nothing to do with whether Buzz has any interest in going. He lose a big bargaining chip, if he said he flat out was not interested.
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I am a Buzz Williams fan. I think he's an excellent recruiter, an ever-improving game coach and an outstanding ambassador for Marquette University. He brings in players who are quality people, committed students and hard-working athletes. I hope he's still the coach at MU when my sons go there...in the fall of 2027 ;)
That being said, if he takes a job that he feels is better for himself and his family, I'd have no problem with it. If someone offered you a job for more money, better benefits and was closer to your home, wouldn't you take it? I know I would. Actually, I know I did. Many fans seem to take it personally when a coach leaves their team/school for a better offer, but rarely bat an eye when someone from their company does the same thing for the same reasons.
I felt like the problem so many people seem to have with Crean is not that he left, but the way he left. If TC had met with the administration and the team prior to them learning about his departure on TV, I felt like many fans would not have such animosity towards him...but after reading some recent posts in regards to Buzz (who is still MU's coach, by the way), I'm not so sure. Though I'm not a particularly big fan of Crean, it seems strange to me that there's such hatred for a coach who brought in MU's greatest player and went to the Final Four, but there's almost complete indifference to coaches like Dukiet and Deane who ran the program into anonymity. Aren't those the coaches we should be upset with?
I guess what I'm saying is that if Buzz feels like it's in his best interest to move on, I have no problem with it and I'd wish him the best...but I really hope that he stays at Marquette for a long, long time.
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+1,000,000
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Let's see, if he splits for another job, good for him. I think the Marquette gig is great. Some say it is a stepping stone. I guess for those folks they may be the stepping stones just projecting.
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It is only a stepping stone job because we hire relative unknowns. Hire a Tubby Smith or Steve Lavin and this is a destination job. We open ourselves up to guys leaving because of who we hire, not what we are. This is a job a guy could stay ten years very easily...just hire that type of guy.
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That guy may not want to come here, Goose. If Buzz leaves (I still don't think he does) the logical guy to put here long term is Wardle. MU ties. The question is whether or not he is ready or can coach at this level. Which is the exact same question we had with Buzz and Crean and Deane and ONeil and Dukiet and Majerus and Raymonds and Al. The two guys who had the best resumes when they arrived are Dukiet and Deane. Kennedy looked like a good hire at DePaul. Davis looked like a good hire for Providence. Pelphrey and Capel both looked like good hires at the time. Pretty clear we got the best of the 2008 shallow pool. This year, it is even more shallow. Heck, Buzz could go to OU and Pelphrey could be the best we can find. It is the best for everyone on this board if Buzz stays. Programs are built by coaches who stay. Unless of course your want Calipari.
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That guy may not want to come here, Goose. If Buzz leaves (I still don't think he does) the logical guy to put here long term is Wardle. MU ties. The question is whether or not he is ready or can coach at this level. Which is the exact same question we had with Buzz and Crean and Deane and ONeil and Dukiet and Majerus and Raymonds and Al. The two guys who had the best resumes when they arrived are Dukiet and Deane. Kennedy looked like a good hire at DePaul. Davis looked like a good hire for Providence. Pelphrey and Capel both looked like good hires at the time. Pretty clear we got the best of the 2008 shallow pool. This year, it is even more shallow. Heck, Buzz could go to OU and Pelphrey could be the best we can find. It is the best for everyone on this board if Buzz stays. Programs are built by coaches who stay. Unless of course your want Calipari.
To me the biggest question about Wardle or any other candidate is more of: can he recruit at this level?? That HAS to be priority Number 1 for MU. O'Neill, Crean and Buzz were all known as good recruiters - they all got the MU job based on their reps are recruiters. Talent wins games by and large...great coaching can probably steal you 2-4 wins over the course of a season. Great talent can win you 20-25 games.
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Brian Wardle----COME ON. We are BE team with long history. I am hoping people that suggest names like that are doing it to piss people off. Wardle makes Buzz look like Coach K.
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It's a shallow pool. That is why Buzz is so popular.
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Tower---That is not a pool that is an empty hole. I want to make new memories on MU ball and hiring wardle will not make that happen. Reach for the stars...never know what can happen.
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That guy may not want to come here, Goose. If Buzz leaves (I still don't think he does) the logical guy to put here long term is Wardle. MU ties.
Ugh...the worst thing we should do is over-inflate a candidate because they have "MU ties." No other BE program would even consider Wardle...so why should we? Because he went to school here?
That is why UNC hired Doherty...NCSU hired Lowe...
Don't get me wrong, hiring an alum *who is otherwise the best candidate* is a great thing. Williams at Maryland is an example.
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I have said this earlier but if Buzz leaves, how does Dino Gaudio sound as a replacement? I hope Buzz stays because I like what he has done at MU.
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If we are going the "ACC retread" route, which I don't think we should do, I would rather have Al Skinner.
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WHY BUZZ?? Because most anyone in college basketball circles feels Buzz has done a remarkable job with the MU program, given the challenges faced in Year 2 and 3 in his tenure. Plus, he's shown an ability to recruit high level talent to a difficult place like MU. Plus his kids have been very well behaved, graduated, and Buzz has been a good ambassador of the university. He's done this in the Big East - the most challenging and difficult conference in the country...which has infinitely more value than a coach who has done well at an Old Dominion or Missouri State. He's shown he can get the job done at the highest level of CBB.
I think he is doing a great job. But he hasn't accomplished anything. His only accomplish (to today) is that he hasn't sunk a ship. He has won no championships (regular season or tourney) and he has won one game in two years in the big dance. In five years (regardless of where he is), do I think it will be more impressive? Yes. Would I write a 8 figure check betting that it will? NO! There are plenty of other guys that are more proven. Love Buzz but I think any program would be stupid to poach Buzz at this stage.
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If we are going the "ACC retread" route, which I don't think we should do, I would rather have Al Skinner.
Al Skinner!?!?! Holy sh*t! Are you freaking out of your mind? He was a horrendous coach and an even worse recruiter. The dude didn't even try. If we even interviewed him I would relinquish my season tickets.
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I think he is doing a great job. But he hasn't accomplished anything. His only accomplish (to today) is that he hasn't sunk a ship. He has won no championships (regular season or tourney) and he has won one game in two years in the big dance. In five years (regardless of where he is), do I think it will be more impressive? Yes. Would I write a 8 figure check betting that it will? NO! There are plenty of other guys that are more proven. Love Buzz but I think any program would be stupid to poach Buzz at this stage.
We generally agree on a lot of points JDO - but greatly differ here. OU and Arkansas certainly don't think it is stupid to poach Buzz, nor do most respected college basketball writers and personalities. He is a hot commodity.
I disagree that there are "plenty of other guys that are more proved," that could be recruited away from their schools. MU has been a Top 25-35 program these last 2 REBUILDING YEARS. Buzz had exactly 4 players on the roster to start his 2nd year here - granted he couldn't retain Christopherson or Mbawke - which would have made it 6....but to expect a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 by this time is really, really, really, optimistic..or naive.
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If Cottingham finds out there is any truth to "feelers" being put out, I would have no problem with him firing Buzz Williams. And I like Buzz.
One of my other Alma Maters had a real man at the helm. When Bill Frieder took the ASU job before the Dance, and then expected to coach Blue through the Tourney, Bo took all of two seconds to straighten out Mr Frieder's incorrect assumption as to what was appropriate. Bo put it best: "A Michigan Man will coach Michigan." Steve Fischer then took Blue all the way to the top over the next three weeks. I recall reading that Frieder actually showed up at the Championship game and tried to speak with the players. He was told to take a hike.
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We generally agree on a lot of points JDO - but greatly differ here. OU and Arkansas certainly don't think it is stupid to poach Buzz, nor do most respected college basketball writers and personalities. He is a hot commodity.
I disagree that there are "plenty of other guys that are more proved," that could be recruited away from their schools. MU has been a Top 25-35 program these last 2 REBUILDING YEARS. Buzz had exactly 4 players on the roster to start his 2nd year here - granted he couldn't retain Christopherson or Mbawke - which would have made it 6....but to expect a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 by this time is really, really, really, optimistic..or naive.
Buzz is one of the highest paid coaches in college basketball. Sorry, but no one is going to pay more money than us at this stage. His resume just doesn't warrant it. Sorry, but it doesn't. We can agree to disagree on this one.
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Al Skinner!?!?! Holy sh*t! Are you freaking out of your mind? He was a horrendous coach and an even worse recruiter. The dude didn't even try. If we even interviewed him I would relinquish my season tickets.
I take it you disagree with me. ;-)
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Brian Wardle----COME ON. We are BE team with long history. I am hoping people that suggest names like that are doing it to piss people off. Wardle makes Buzz look like Coach K.
Profound man, simply profound. Wardle? WTF, I like my chances coaching MU vs. his.
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This is all part of getting a new contract. It is to Buzz's advantage that MU has to worry about other teams wanting him. Has nothing to do with whether Buzz has any interest in going. He lose a big bargaining chip, if he said he flat out was not interested.
Everyone here has pulled this card. Cant lose
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Al Skinner!?!?! Holy sh*t! Are you freaking out of your mind? He was a horrendous coach and an even worse recruiter. The dude didn't even try. If we even interviewed him I would relinquish my season tickets.
Agree...Al Skinner would be a putrid choice. Ugh.
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Brian Wardle----COME ON. We are BE team with long history. I am hoping people that suggest names like that are doing it to piss people off. Wardle makes Buzz look like Coach K.
Not wanting to start a big deal here, but your comparison of Buzz being far superior to Wardle is way off base.
Prior to his hire at MU, Buzz had 1 year experience as a head coach at New Orleans, Wardle has 1 year at UWGB.yes Buzz had more experience as an Assistant, but Wardle is an alumni and played the game. IMO, Wardle at this stage has as strong/weak credentials as Buzz when he was hired.
And guess what? Wardle would kick Buzz's ass in one on one, and has a hell of a lot better jump shot/FT shot.
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Not wanting to start a big deal here, but your comparison of Buzz being far superior to Wardle is way off base.
Prior to his hire at MU, Buzz had 1 year experience as a head coach at New Orleans, Wardle has 1 year at UWGB.yes Buzz had more experience as an Assistant, but Wardle is an alumni and played the game. IMO, Wardle at this stage has as strong/weak credentials as Buzz when he was hired.
And guess what? Wardle would kick Buzz's ass in one on one, and has a hell of a lot better jump shot/FT shot.
This is idiotic. Wardle isn't even qualified to be our top assistant.
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This is idiotic. Wardle isn't even qualified to be our top assistant.
Agreed, except I'd add asinine as a further qualifier to idiotic. And I like Wardle.
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Not wanting to start a big deal here, but your comparison of Buzz being far superior to Wardle is way off base.
Prior to his hire at MU, Buzz had 1 year experience as a head coach at New Orleans, Wardle has 1 year at UWGB.yes Buzz had more experience as an Assistant, but Wardle is an alumni and played the game. IMO, Wardle at this stage has as strong/weak credentials as Buzz when he was hired.
That is absolutely false. Williams was a top assistant and recruiter that brought talent into two programs that made the NCAA tournament. He was considered a solid up-and-comer by many in college basketball. So much so that TC won a battle against Gillespie to bring him here.
Being an alumnus is completely irrelevent. "Playing the game" is also irrelevent. Those don't somehow trump the lack of experience and ability.
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This is idiotic. Wardle isn't even qualified to be our top assistant.
Say what you want. Credentials at Buzz's time of hire are very much about the same. And Wardle played the game--Buzz did not.
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Say what you want. Credentials at Buzz's time of hire are very much about the same. And Wardle played the game--Buzz did not.
Willie - C'mon Man. Seriously?? After all the flak you've given Buzz the last 2 years...you really are suggesting Wardle as a replacement..or viable replacement candidate..because he went to MU, played ball at MU and has 1 year of coaching experience?
Buzz could wipe Wardle's ass with exposure to basketball strategy, as he could his contact network within recruiting circles. Think Wardle has any kind of reach nationally with regard to recruiting? I've posted this recently...a "great" coach can probably get you an additional 2-4 wins per year..great talent will get you 20-25 on its own.
MU absolutely has to have a coach that can recruit - it is the common theme of success among our coaches since Al: O'Neill, Crean and now Buzz. Pretty sure Wardle has a long way to go to develop a recruiting network that will be required to get top/required talent to MU to compete in the Big East.
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Congrats to everyone....your doing exactly what Buzz DIDN'T want...and that is focusing on him rather than the team and the players......let's just enjoy the tournament and see what happens after our run!
GO MU!
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Willie - C'mon Man. Seriously?? After all the flak you've given Buzz the last 2 years...you really are suggesting Wardle as a replacement..or viable replacement candidate..because he went to MU, played ball at MU and has 1 year of coaching experience?
Buzz could wipe Wardle's ass with exposure to basketball strategy, as he could his contact network within recruiting circles. Think Wardle has any kind of reach nationally with regard to recruiting? I've posted this recently...a "great" coach can probably get you an additional 2-4 wins per year..great talent will get you 20-25 on its own.
MU absolutely has to have a coach that can recruit - it is the common theme of success among our coaches since Al: O'Neill, Crean and now Buzz. Pretty sure Wardle has a long way to go to develop a recruiting network that will be required to get top/required talent to MU to compete in the Big East.
Man, you people do not let up, and get your shorts in a bind over nothing. No I am not suggesting Wardle as a replacement--there was a post made by somebody else deriding Wardle as a replacement. I only commented that Wardles's experience was similar to Buzz's prior to Buzz's hiring at MU. Unless I am enirely wrong:
1. Both had 1 year head coaching experience--Buzz then and Wardle now
2. Both had been Asst. Coaches--Wardle several years at UWGB, Buzz about 2 years at MU. I acknowledged that Buzz had more previous assistant experience at other schools. Right now, he is also a better recruiter.
3. Wardle is an alumni, and played at a high level both in HS and college at MU.
And of course people have said that because he is an alumni, that is irrevalent. I would tend to agree with that, but it does mean something to a lot of people. And I do believe that the fact that he played the game at a high level in both HS and College is part of what a potential candidate bring to the table as part of his resume.
My only point was to show that a guy like Wardle should not be dismissed out of hand. MU's current and last coach were no more qualified than a candidate with Wardle's background. Crean--I do not he ever played, and had no Head Coaching experience--he was an assistant at a great program--and had to learn on the job. Buzz--1 year of HC experience at a low level program.
By the way, Buzz is still head coach, so why all the speculation?
I never said hire Wardle--the point was to show a comparison of credentials and to not discount the guy. And since this is all speculation, we could argue all day long as to whether Wardle could recruit the Chicago and Wisconsin area better than Buzz if Wardle was the MU head coach. A definite case could be made for Wardle, as we do not seem to be focussing much on Chicago right now. You do not know how Wardle would recruit at MU. He is not the head coach. You are speculating on that. And since you are so sold on Buzz's recruiting skills, what top 50 recruit has he pulled out of Texas? He has done well at the JUCO level, but I believe that the only top 50 recruit from HS that Buzz has drawn in is Vander--and IMO he was way overrated.
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Won't Buzz get torched for allowing all these AK and OU rumors to persist and become a distraction for the team?
Why does Buzz think press about leaving is necessary now? Is he planning on losing this weekend so he can bolt next week? If so, leave now and let Benford coach tomorrow night. If he was really interested, can't it wait until we are officially done? Their will be plenty time later for glowing press if he wants to leave.
Buzz likes his guys and wants to to do well this week. How does this help? And, if he is totally selfless, doesn't a sweet sixteen or more only help his cause to leave? Getting blown out by X under these circumstances hurts his stature. And then to leave after all this press BEFORE the game is going to burn a bridge on his way out ... more-so then if this started after we lost and our season was over.
Lastly, does anyone put any credence in the idea that Buzz does not want to leave but he is happy with the attention as it raises his stature and might help him in recruiting? Maybe he is looking at some Texas guys and this helps get them to Milwaukee.
Other thoughts?
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I know he's from that part of the country, but why is OU a better job than MU? Crean to IU - makes sense, it is a blue blood college basketball program. But why leave a pretty darn good gig at MU for what is likely a lateral move at best? Plus some potential NCAA sanctions coming down on OU? I'm not buying it. I don't think Buzz leaves for either OU or Ark. I think that this board has itself in a tizzy due to a lack of information and speculation from ESPN/cbssports/SI talking heads who's job it is to stir the coaching pot this time of year. I'm so sick of every NCAA tournament being ruined w/ speculation that our coach is leaving.
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did this really require another thread considering this conversation is going on in 15 other places on the board?
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I know he's from that part of the country, but why is OU a better job than MU? Crean to IU - makes sense, it is a blue blood college basketball program. But why leave a pretty darn good gig at MU for what is likely a lateral move at best? Plus some potential NCAA sanctions coming down on OU? I'm not buying it. I don't think Buzz leaves for either OU or Ark. I think that this board has itself in a tizzy due to a lack of information and speculation from ESPN/cbssports/SI talking heads who's job it is to stir the coaching pot this time of year. I'm so sick of every NCAA tournament being ruined w/ speculation that our coach is leaving.
OU is not a better job than MU, and Buzz is making good coin at MU. Only reason might be that is closer to his old stomping grounds. MU is a better job. Better conference, better facilities, better BB fans, and a more loyal administration than OU. OU is a football school, and they shafted Capel.
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Won't Buzz get torched for allowing all these AK and OU rumors to persist and become a distraction for the team?
Why does Buzz think press about leaving is necessary now? Is he planning on losing this weekend so he can bolt next week? If so, leave now and let Benford coach tomorrow night. If he was really interested, can't it wait until we are officially done? Their will be plenty time later for glowing press if he wants to leave.
Buzz likes his guys and wants to to do well this week. How does this help? And, if he is totally selfless, doesn't a sweet sixteen or more only help his cause to leave? Getting blown out by X under these circumstances hurts his stature. And then to leave after all this press BEFORE the game is going to burn a bridge on his way out ... more-so then if this started after we lost and our season was over.
Lastly, does anyone put any credence in the idea that Buzz does not want to leave but he is happy with the attention as it raises his stature and might help him in recruiting? Maybe he is looking at some Texas guys and this helps get them to Milwaukee.
Other thoughts?
I think Buzz cannot control what Andy Katz, Jeff Goodman, Gary Parrish, etc., say about him.
I also think that any young, energetic coach who has some success at a school like Marquette (or Xavier or any other similar school) is going to become a popular name on the coaching carousel. It was true of O'Neill, it was true of Crean, it was true of Matta, it was true of Miller, it is true of Mack. Not much can be done about it.
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Again this is all Buzz's doing. His words created this distraction.
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I agree he could have squashed the rumors, but he either wants the Ok or Ark job or he wants a raise...
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I think Buzz cannot control what Andy Katz, Jeff Goodman, Gary Parrish, etc., say about him.
I would tend to agree with that. However, there were a lot of people on this board who didn't give our former coach the same benefit of the doubt.
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Again this is all Buzz's doing. His words created this distraction.
The rumors were out there long before Buzz addressed them (to your dissatisfaction) on Tuesday. In fact, the rumors were out there even before Arkansas fired Pelphrey.
And, as I think we all know, no statement Buzz makes is going to make the rumors go away, prevent other schools from coming after him, or even stop him from leaving.