Garry Parrish says Buzz will take either OU or Ark job

[MUfan12]

Have you ever coached a youth basketball team and seen a kid throw up a ridiculous shot that went in.  You find yourself yelling, "no, no, no, YES!"

I believe that is referred to as a "Jerel."

[MakeItRain11]

Very true, but I rarely find myself with the opportunity to pull one of the Marquette players aside and say, "I'm glad you made the shot, but never, ever take that shot again."

touché

[GGGG]

79Warrior--If my post is ignorant I would notknow how to classify your post. any leader of an organization has to have backup plans in place in case the need arises. Of course it was common knowledge for quite some time that TC would leave at some point. It was responsibility of current and new AD to be fully prepared for that moment. Cottingham and whomever were caught their pants down.

Do you have some insider knowledge to suggest this was the case?  Because if you are basing this soley on the fact that they hired Buzz, and that you find him to be unqualified, it is a pretty huge leap to suggest that they were "caught with their pants down."  

As mentioned above, Buzz very well could have been considered a viable candidate by the administration.  Unless you have evidence that doesn't suggest this to be the case, you are making too many assumptions.

[Goose]

MU84---It is unreasonable to put Buzz high on a list if you have no experience in selecting a coach. Buzz was unknown to most MU fans until a week before hiring. Unknowns are picked by people with credibility in the marketplace. Buzz has turned out OK but it was a helluva of a roll of the dice.

It really is so unreasonable that people on here cannot believe he is high on AU, TT or OU list. He now actually has a body of work to evaluate.

[Goose]

Sultan---Let's say that I did have some insider information you can be assured that I would either be mocked or backed into a corner on a source. I will stick by my comments that sufficient foundation was not in place in case TC jumped ship. If it were a departing coach's recommendation would either not be solicited or wanted. We saw how KO's leaving town gift worked out with Deane. Why would anyone take that risk again?

[NersEllenson]

Interesting to see some people's fascination with the hiring "process."  Do we not get WAY TOO carried away with "process" in business?  Let's get results, and have a results oriented focus.  We have people here saying the athletic department was left with their pants down??  Why??

Do people really think every school has a list of high profile candidates who are ready, willing and able to come to their school in the event their coach bolts?  Ludicrous.  It is highly competitive to land a good, proven coach to come to a program.

We know we were turned down by Sean Miller, Tony Bennett, and Anthony Grant.  Why on earth anyone thinks we can land someone like Kevin Stallings or some other proven high major coach is beyond me.  The admin saw Buzz for 1 year.  Crean highly recommended him.  Doc Rivers liked him.  Dick Strong liked him.  So what??  He was not an unknown quantity by any means..and the athletic department absolutely nailed it in hiring Buzz.  And we are obsessing over the "process?"  Unreal.

[Goose]

Ners--Without a process you are taking major gamble. Do you think Berkshire has a plan in place in case Buffet dies today? Apple stock goes down because Jobs is out sick and people fear his replacement will not measure up. MU ball is a business, they spend and collect money. They are a profit motivated organization and live off making the right decisions. Top high school programs have a process in place why would we not expect a top level university to do the same?

[GGGG]

Sultan---Let's say that I did have some insider information you can be assured that I would either be mocked or backed into a corner on a source. I will stick by my comments that sufficient foundation was not in place in case TC jumped ship. If it were a departing coach's recommendation would either not be solicited or wanted. We saw how KO's leaving town gift worked out with Deane. Why would anyone take that risk again?

I guess I don't understand what you are saying here.  If you have "insider" information, I would be much more willing to take you at your word that they were caught unprepared.  But if your only reason is "well, they hired an unproven guy," that isn't enough for me.  People take risks and hire unproven guys all of the time...that doesn't mean they were unprepared.

[NersEllenson]

Ners--Without a process you are taking major gamble. Do you think Berkshire has a plan in place in case Buffet dies today? Apple stock goes down because Jobs is out sick and people fear his replacement will not measure up. MU ball is a business, they spend and collect money. They are a profit motivated organization and live off making the right decisions. Top high school programs have a process in place why would we not expect a top level university to do the same?

Business world succession planning and college basketball succession planning are two different animals.  But...I do not understand why you don't feel there was a process involved?  MU contacted the most highly thought of up and coming established coaches - Miller, Bennett, Grant.  They were re-buffed.  The admin had the LUXURY of being around Buzz for 1 year and seeing how he worked, treated people, connected with the players, etc.  It was a very informed decision.  To suggest it was similar to O'Neill recommending Mike Deane is inaccurate.  The athletic department never had a chance to be around MIke Deane for 1 year prior to his hire...

At the end of the day..the athletic department nailed it with Buzz.  He's performed better than virtually any coach hired in the 2008 spring....Cottingham got it right.  Period.

[Goose]

Ners--You seem to be so blinded by love of MU to look things objectively. The Buzz hire did work out well and I am happy for that. You missed my point in earlier post. The AD should have known that Bennett and Co had no interest from the start. Why call a guy with no interest, other than take a chance. All of these coaches has a posse that gets information out to other posse's.

Again, I HOPE BUZZ STAYS AT MU. If not, I hope MU posse is burning up the phone lines to get a pulse of what is out there. Hopefully all of the threads on here were not needed. But, just in case I would rather a short lists of possible guys rather than calling guys with fingers crossed.

You and I disagree on who can and cannot be had. I believe money talks and it seems you believe MU is stepping stone job. It is funny because in spite of your love affair I hold the program/school in higher regard. This does NOT have to be stepping stone job.

[NersEllenson]

Ners--You seem to be so blinded by love of MU to look things objectively. The Buzz hire did work out well and I am happy for that. You missed my point in earlier post. The AD should have known that Bennett and Co had no interest from the start. Why call a guy with no interest, other than take a chance. All of these coaches has a posse that gets information out to other posse's.

Again, I HOPE BUZZ STAYS AT MU. If not, I hope MU posse is burning up the phone lines to get a pulse of what is out there. Hopefully all of the threads on here were not needed. But, just in case I would rather a short lists of possible guys rather than calling guys with fingers crossed.

You and I disagree on who can and cannot be had. I believe money talks and it seems you believe MU is stepping stone job. It is funny because in spite of your love affair I hold the program/school in higher regard. This does NOT have to be stepping stone job.

Goose - I HOPE you are right..that in the event Buzz leaves....that MU can land an accomplished, high major coach.  I just don't think paying the most money is necessarily a guarantee you get an elite guy.  Furthermore..if that is the game you want to play..it is only a matter of time before that coach leaves MU for a more lucrative offer (assuming he gets very good reesults at MU).  As much as we like to think MU has deep pockets...there are many programs/universities with deeper pockets.

Last thought - Never in our previous history have we ever been seriously considered by a high major/big name coach - why do we think we would now?  Just because of the Al and Big East inclusion??  Lots of programs can boast similar selling points...and those schools also have BCS football programs - which is what really drives the bus with regard to conference realignment/affiliation.

[ChicosBailBonds]

At the end of the day..the athletic department nailed it with Buzz.  He's performed better than virtually any coach hired in the 2008 spring....Cottingham got it right.  Period.

Several questions for you ners

1)  In your opinion, could only one hire have nailed it?  In other words, if someone else was brought it, could they have nailed it as you define it?

2)  If Buzz leaves next week and we have to do this all over again, would you still consider it as "nailed"?  I ask this because one of my arguments 3 years ago was that if Buzz worked out, he wouldn't be here long and we go right back into the stepping stone situation again. I'm just curious how you feel about that.

As for performing better than any coach hired in 2008...you're basing this on what?  Were all situations the same?  If Miller came to MU would we be a top 25 team right now or the 9th place Big East team?   All situations are different so I have trouble with your statement. 

[Goose]

I think if Buzz leaves it is because Ners man crush on him has him freaked out.

[NersEllenson]

Several questions for you ners

1)  In your opinion, could only one hire have nailed it?  In other words, if someone else was brought it, could they have nailed it as you define it?

2)  If Buzz leaves next week and we have to do this all over again, would you still consider it as "nailed"?  I ask this because one of my arguments 3 years ago was that if Buzz worked out, he wouldn't be here long and we go right back into the stepping stone situation again. I'm just curious how you feel about that.

As for performing better than any coach hired in 2008...you're basing this on what?  Were all situations the same?  If Miller came to MU would we be a top 25 team right now or the 9th place Big East team?   All situations are different so I have trouble with your statement. 

Of course no two situations are identical...but...Buzz (I believe) has the best record of any high major coach hired in 2008.  Not sure if Miller could have competed at as high of level in the Big East, as the Pac 10 which was really down the last 2 years.  Not sure Miller could have done as well getting JUCO's who were ready to play from Day 1..to offset the transfers and broken LOI's due to the coaching change to Buzz.  Not sure recruiting to sunny Arizona, land of the gorgeous girls would be easier for Buzz, than MKE?

But...my intuition tells me..Buzz has done better than Miller would have done, or any other coach for that matter.  Believe the win/loss record says as much...as do some of the above variables/differences of situation.  Regardless...why do we care if someone could have equaled Buzz's accomplishments?

I certainly HOPE Buzz doesn't leave after 3 years...but its been a good 3 years if he does.  There is no guarantee if we'd hired someone else that they too wouldn't leave after 3 years.  Granted a guy with Midwest roots would be less likely...but Tom Crean had those, and he too chose to leave.  No guarantees in any of this..so my take:  It's been a good 3 years, and I hope it contiinues with Buzz.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Fair enough....I believe Miller over the long haul is going to have the better career....he walked into a tougher short term situation but a better long term situation.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Cottingham got it right.  Period.

Got it right? If Buzz does, indeed, leave after this year the Buzz Williams hire will go down as one of the worst Marquette has ever made. On par with Bob Dukiet and a potential program damager. You don't hire a coach and expect him to stay three freaking years. It makes Marquette look horrendous.

[79Warrior]

Ners--You seem to be so blinded by love of MU to look things objectively. The Buzz hire did work out well and I am happy for that. You missed my point in earlier post. The AD should have known that Bennett and Co had no interest from the start. Why call a guy with no interest, other than take a chance. All of these coaches has a posse that gets information out to other posse's.

Again, I HOPE BUZZ STAYS AT MU. If not, I hope MU posse is burning up the phone lines to get a pulse of what is out there. Hopefully all of the threads on here were not needed. But, just in case I would rather a short lists of possible guys rather than calling guys with fingers crossed.

You and I disagree on who can and cannot be had. I believe money talks and it seems you believe MU is stepping stone job. It is funny because in spite of your love affair I hold the program/school in higher regard. This does NOT have to be stepping stone job.

Completely disagree with you on the coaching hire. Money does talk and we have offered it. TC left and he was very highly paid. Buzz may leave and he will be offered a nice raise by MU.

MU is likely a gig that will continue to lose coaches to other programs It is not a money issue at all, MU pays and pays well. Like it or not, if Buzz goes we are likely to be considered the stepping stone type position you do not want us to be.

MU has the BE working for and against it. It gives great exposure to the University. It is a killer for coaches. Any coach who comes here will ask himself can MU realistically win this conference? of course you will say yes. Plenty of people will say no. While we have competed very well in the BE, the traditional BE powers still dominate. This is a brutal conference filled with HOF coaches. We are a tough sell for an established coach.

Other than the widely disliked TC, just about every coach has spent about 5 years at MU before moving on or being moved on. And that goes back to 1977.

[NersEllenson]

Fair enough....I believe Miller over the long haul is going to have the better career....he walked into a tougher short term situation but a better long term situation.

I disagree (surprise).  I believe Buzz will have a better coaching career than Miller.  His chances only improve if he does leave MU to go to a Texas/A&M, or OU.

I don't know the degree to which the Arizona program was in tatters before Miller arrived  -but to my recollection Arizona had been a darn good program for 25 years under Lute..and probably made the NCAA in 2007 with Budinger?? 

[Marquette84]

MU84---It is unreasonable to put Buzz high on a list if you have no experience in selecting a coach. Buzz was unknown to most MU fans until a week before hiring. Unknowns are picked by people with credibility in the marketplace. Buzz has turned out OK but it was a helluva of a roll of the dice.

It really is so unreasonable that people on here cannot believe he is high on AU, TT or OU list. He now actually has a body of work to evaluate.

It was only a roll of the dice to YOU.   

While Buzz was unknown to most MU fans, he worked for MU for almost a year before he was hired.  Is it really so unreasonable that people here cannot believe that Cottingham might have known enough about Buzz that he became comfortable making him the 4th best option?

So I'll ask again, where do you get off making statements like Cottingham got "caught with his pants down?"

[ChicosBailBonds]

MU has the BE working for and against it. It gives great exposure to the University. It is a killer for coaches. Any coach who comes here will ask himself can MU realistically win this conference? of course you will say yes. Plenty of people will say no. While we have competed very well in the BE, the traditional BE powers still dominate. This is a brutal conference filled with HOF coaches. We are a tough sell for an established coach.

Other than the widely disliked TC, just about every coach has spent about 5 years at MU before moving on or being moved on. And that goes back to 1977.

Correct.  Supposedly the "gauntlet" in the Big East was one of the reasons why Bennett and Miller said no thanks.  MU is really good, but in a conference with GREATS, it becomes difficult. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I disagree (surprise).  I believe Buzz will have a better coaching career than Miller.  His chances only improve if he does leave MU to go to a Texas/A&M, or OU.

I don't know the degree to which the Arizona program was in tatters before Miller arrived  -but to my recollection Arizona had been a darn good program for 25 years under Lute..and probably made the NCAA in 2007 with Budinger?? 

Didn't say they were in tatters...I said short term the team Buzz walked into was golden compared to the team Miller inherited...thus long term vs short term.

I agree that Buzz would probably do better longer term at a place other than MU...which begs the question why take a gamble on someone that A) if they don't work out sets you back or B) if they do well, will leave early to an "easier' job back home.  This was one of my arguments several years ago if you recall. 

That's why I'd rather get an experienced guy that is a Midwest guy that is here for the long haul, if we have to go down this path.  Hopefully Buzz stays and we don't have the turnover.  If we do, I'd be willing to trade a few NIT type years now and then with someone that lasts a decade than take a guy that is 3 and out.

[brewcity77]

I agree that Buzz would probably do better longer term at a place other than MU...which begs the question why take a gamble on someone that A) if they don't work out sets you back or B) if they do well, will leave early to an "easier' job back home.  This was one of my arguments several years ago if you recall.

This is one reason why I think Buzz stays here right now. At Marquette, he knows he can recruit, he knows he can get paid, he knows he can have continued success. It may not be a Texas, Kansas, UNC, or other true "destination" job, but he's got all the security he needs. If he goes to Oklahoma, he has to pretty much start from scratch. Arkansas simply isn't that level of job. It's bigger than Marquette, but it's a far cry from the true upper-echelon jobs. Same goes for Missouri, Tennessee, or Texas Tech. I think until one of the true blue-bloods comes calling, or Texas because I'd imagine it's his dream job, I don't see him leaving. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but he's far from being in danger here and I have to imagine things are looking up as his recruits go from being underclassmen to upperclassmen.

[Goose]

Brewcity--A couple of weeks I posted Buzz could leave because of job security. He has ZERO chance of getting fired here for now, but I think another year like this year in BE he could start feeling heat. If he leaves now he is going to have big contract with 5 year deal.

If Buzz would stay and ultimately get fired 2-3 years down the road he will never be a big program coach again. If I was advising him I would say take the money and security now because it might not be there next year. He might, and I say might, be looking at one real chance for a score. Most of us dream of scores and he is looking at one.

[brewcity77]

Brewcity--A couple of weeks I posted Buzz could leave because of job security. He has ZERO chance of getting fired here for now, but I think another year like this year in BE he could start feeling heat. If he leaves now he is going to have big contract with 5 year deal.

If Buzz would stay and ultimately get fired 2-3 years down the road he will never be a big program coach again. If I was advising him I would say take the money and security now because it might not be there next year. He might, and I say might, be looking at one real chance for a score. Most of us dream of scores and he is looking at one.

While it's not guaranteed that he gets renewed here, I have to think that he's exceeded expectations so far and is on course for renewal. We expected the team to be good his first year, we had four starting seniors and Lazar. But when we lost virtually all our recruits as well as a few players already on the team, I have to think most of us were expecting at least 2-3 years where the NIT was our best case scenario, and that we'd only get back to being competitive once Buzz's new recruits started to age a bit.

Honestly, if you had told me that after his first year, Buzz would have Marquette back in the Big Dance within 3 years, I would have been happy with that. Another year like this year will accomplish that. Who'd have expected he would have two NCAAs in the middle of that stretch as well?

[MerrittsMustache]

Brewcity--A couple of weeks I posted Buzz could leave because of job security. He has ZERO chance of getting fired here for now, but I think another year like this year in BE he could start feeling heat. If he leaves now he is going to have big contract with 5 year deal.

If Buzz would stay and ultimately get fired 2-3 years down the road he will never be a big program coach again. If I was advising him I would say take the money and security now because it might not be there next year. He might, and I say might, be looking at one real chance for a score. Most of us dream of scores and he is looking at one.

He'll feel the heat if he has another year like this? You think MU is the type of school who's going to pressure a coach who finishes .500 or better in the conference, goes to the NCAA Tournament and graduates his players? Get a clue! Crean's seat was barely warm as the team crashed and burned in the NIT. This isn't Bama football we're talking about.