Arkansas job officially open

[AlienWarrior]

Let's just get Bobby Knight and get this over with

[crice04]

Whats up guys, Arkansas fan here! I am not here to flame but just give you the scoop on what I am hearing over here.

I am just going to state a few things about our program and fans, etc...

-Most fans want Mike Anderson, Turgeon , Tubby Smith then Buzz. Most have seen that his record has slipped each year and are skeptical if they want another coaching hire to be a flop again.
- Our AD says "he will pick the coach." When in reality, the top boosters of our program basically pushed their weight around.
- Arkansas believe it or not has very deep pockets. We were paying Pelphrey 1.3m a year and he didn't do ANYTHING. If we get Anderson he will be making Bill Self type money. The Walton's and Tyson's aren't messing around this time. Obviously the salary depends on the coach, but I've heard we might throw the sink at Self to see if he bites or not given his past interest in coaching at Arkansas.

That's all I have right now. I really would like for us to get a Big East coach of some kind. I mean, it is the "SEC of basketball" BY FAR. You guys would want a SEC football coach to come there right? I have a feeling your coach is safe if the guys before him on the list take what they are offered by us. By the way, do you guys like Buzz? Is he a really good coach? Could he lead you guys to some conference titles or elite 8's? The expectations here are really high so the pressure is on for that home run hire or as close to it as possible.

Thanks guys!

[NersEllenson]

Whats up guys, Arkansas fan here! I am not here to flame but just give you the scoop on what I am hearing over here.

I am just going to state a few things about our program and fans, etc...

-Most fans want Mike Anderson, Turgeon , Tubby Smith then Buzz. Most have seen that his record has slipped each year and are skeptical if they want another coaching hire to be a flop again.
- Our AD says "he will pick the coach." When in reality, the top boosters of our program basically pushed their weight around.
- Arkansas believe it or not has very deep pockets. We were paying Pelphrey 1.3m a year and he didn't do ANYTHING. If we get Anderson he will be making Bill Self type money. The Walton's and Tyson's aren't messing around this time. Obviously the salary depends on the coach, but I've heard we might throw the sink at Self to see if he bites or not given his past interest in coaching at Arkansas.

That's all I have right now. I really would like for us to get a Big East coach of some kind. I mean, it is the "SEC of basketball" BY FAR. You guys would want a SEC football coach to come there right? I have a feeling your coach is safe if the guys before him on the list take what they are offered by us. By the way, do you guys like Buzz? Is he a really good coach? Could he lead you guys to some conference titles or elite 8's? The expectations here are really high so the pressure is on for that home run hire or as close to it as possible.

Thanks guys!

95% of our fanbase is thrilled with Buzz.  5% are not.  His record only declined in each of his 3 seasons due to the coaching change, subsequent transfeers..and some empty recruiting classes under Tom Crean in 2006-2007.  He walked in to a great sitation at MU his first year...but after that..he basically had 4 returning players in Year 2...2 of which averaged less than 4ppg as juniors.  The fact MU has NOT missed an NCAA due to Tom Crean leaving..and what Buzz was left with in Year 2....he's done a hell of a job.

[Hards Alumni]

95% of our fanbase is thrilled with Buzz.  5% are not.  His record only declined in each of his 3 seasons due to the coaching change, subsequent transfeers..and some empty recruiting classes under Tom Crean in 2006-2007.  He walked in to a great sitation at MU his first year...but after that..he basically had 4 returning players in Year 2...2 of which averaged less than 4ppg as juniors.  The fact MU has NOT missed an NCAA due to Tom Crean leaving..and what Buzz was left with in Year 2....he's done a hell of a job.

Says the resident Buzz Williams fan boi.  No offense, Ners.  And you don't have any data to back up that 95% claim, and you know it.

Pros
- Buzz says all the right things
- Recruits well (nationally, not just locally)
- Plays a fast paced game with lots of offense
- Wins games

Cons
- High profile transfers of players
- Trouble with consistency/defense
- Still learning how to be an in-game coach.

Now, I'm not going to say that this is how everyone feels, but I think it is a somewhat general summary of things I have read on this message board.  I like Buzz as a coach, but no one is perfect.  I honestly doubt that Buzz would leave for Arkansas; and I don't mean that as a slight to Arkansas (Buzzism!).  Then again, I wouldn't be totally shocked if he did.

[77ncaachamps]

That's all I have right now. I really would like for us to get a Big East coach of some kind. I mean, it is the "SEC of basketball" BY FAR. You guys would want a SEC football coach to come there right? I have a feeling your coach is safe if the guys before him on the list take what they are offered by us. By the way, do you guys like Buzz? Is he a really good coach? Could he lead you guys to some conference titles or elite 8's? The expectations here are really high so the pressure is on for that home run hire or as close to it as possible.

Thanks guys!

I hear Keno is available.

You should try luring St. Mary's Bennett or Butler's coach.

[TedBaxter]

So there is going to be the Bud Walton family from Arkansas bidding for Mike Anderson against the Kroncke family from Missouri, which is another Walton family?  This one will be interesting and then you get the chickens involved.

[NersEllenson]

Says the resident Buzz Williams fan boi.  No offense, Ners.  And you don't have any data to back up that 95% claim, and you know it.

Pros
- Buzz says all the right things
- Recruits well (nationally, not just locally)
- Plays a fast paced game with lots of offense
- Wins games

Cons
- High profile transfers of players
- Trouble with consistency/defense
- Still learning how to be an in-game coach.

Now, I'm not going to say that this is how everyone feels, but I think it is a somewhat general summary of things I have read on this message board.  I like Buzz as a coach, but no one is perfect.  I honestly doubt that Buzz would leave for Arkansas; and I don't mean that as a slight to Arkansas (Buzzism!).  Then again, I wouldn't be totally shocked if he did.

No doubt I am the resident Buzz Williams fan boy..and have no shame in having that title.  But, the 95% number came from a poll that was conducted in the last month...pertaining to Buzz's performance/or should Buzz be fired?  I'll try to dig it up.

But again Hards..we've had a few battles in the past...regarding you being a wrestler by trade...are you really qualified to asses if Buzz is "still learning how to be an in game coach?"

[GGGG]

Talk about misusing statistics.  You said 95% are "thrilled" with what he is doing - and you base that on 95% not wanting him fired?  I don't want Buzz fired, but I am not exactly "thrilled" with what he is doing.  I would say I am more "satisfied."

[NersEllenson]

Talk about misusing statistics.  You said 95% are "thrilled" with what he is doing - and you base that on 95% not wanting him fired?  I don't want Buzz fired, but I am not exactly "thrilled" with what he is doing.  I would say I am more "satisfied."

Semantics...but yes..a critical difference between "thrilled" and "satisfied."

For disucssion purposes, would you outline what you are not thrilled about with regard to Buzz's tenure thus far?

[Blackhat]

Whats up guys, Arkansas fan here! I am not here to flame but just give you the scoop on what I am hearing over here.

I am just going to state a few things about our program and fans, etc...

-Most fans want Mike Anderson, Turgeon , Tubby Smith then Buzz. Most have seen that his record has slipped each year and are skeptical if they want another coaching hire to be a flop again.
- Our AD says "he will pick the coach." When in reality, the top boosters of our program basically pushed their weight around.
- Arkansas believe it or not has very deep pockets. We were paying Pelphrey 1.3m a year and he didn't do ANYTHING. If we get Anderson he will be making Bill Self type money. The Walton's and Tyson's aren't messing around this time. Obviously the salary depends on the coach, but I've heard we might throw the sink at Self to see if he bites or not given his past interest in coaching at Arkansas.

That's all I have right now. I really would like for us to get a Big East coach of some kind. I mean, it is the "SEC of basketball" BY FAR. You guys would want a SEC football coach to come there right? I have a feeling your coach is safe if the guys before him on the list take what they are offered by us. By the way, do you guys like Buzz? Is he a really good coach? Could he lead you guys to some conference titles or elite 8's? The expectations here are really high so the pressure is on for that home run hire or as close to it as possible.

Thanks guys!

Welcome.  Buzz has proven to be a solid coach with some question marks still in year 3.   I think he would recruit very well at Arkansas as he has recruited very well at Marquette in unfamiliar recruiting territory up in the midwest.  The top 100 big man has eluded him here.    Is an excellent offensive coach, imo.   He has produced efficient offense at MU, MU protects the ball very well considering the whole body of work.   Defense is where he struggles.  MU's defense has regressed each year and getting beat on the ball and  help d and rotation has hurt us all year we do play spurts of good d though.   Buzz doesn't have ideal length at the 4 and 5 position consistently though.  He's a quirky character who I'm sure you guys would gobble up down there.    D would have to improve to get consistent winning for a conference title.   He's only 39, so much potential for growth with Buzz....hope he stays, I'd like to see where he can move this program, good or bad.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Semantics...but yes..a critical difference between "thrilled" and "satisfied."

For disucssion purposes, would you outline what you are not thrilled about with regard to Buzz's tenure thus far?

And tell me who else you would have hired and would have taken the job at MU?

And provide me your qualifications for being able to critique college hoops. Wrestlers need not apply.

Edited your post Ners to save you some time because this is where we're headed right?

[NersEllenson]

Edited your post Ners to save you some time because this is where we're headed right?

Not sure what your point is 2002....but no..I wasn't going down the road of "if not Buzz, then who."  With regard to the wrestler comment...Hards and I battled a few times..he called me out..I called him out...no hard feelings....but...if you are being objective...is a wrestler by trade really able to assess if a basketball coach is improving as an in game coach?

Hell..every single coach could be critiqued and stated they needed to improve.  Until a coach wins 100% of their games, there will always be fans who rip the coach.  I tend to look at the macro level, instead of dissecting to the micro level.  Some fans live and die on every game and the outcome of each game determines the goodness or badness of their team's coach.  Some knee jerk, others take a big picture view.  Many here felt there was no way this team makes the NCAA...but where are we?  In the NCAA.

Big picture view...how many objective MU fans would have thought after the Big 3 graduated...and the relatively thin recruiting classes behind them - that MU wouldn't miss a beat and go the the NCAA each of the following 2 years?

[GGGG]

For disucssion purposes, would you outline what you are not thrilled about with regard to Buzz's tenure thus far?

Sure, but we have discussed them here repeatedly.  I do not like the transfer issues like Maymon and Smith, but that isn't entirely his fault.  However, the Newbill issue was terrible.  That should have never occured.

As for bench coaching, I think the defensive issues that we have had since he has been our coach are ridiculous and need to be corrected.

However, I like the guy, he obviously is a very good recruiter, and seems to be learning on the job.  Therefore that is why I am "satisfied" but not "thrilled."

And you can counter this all you want, but I am not really going to engage in discussion around these items because I have discussed them all repeatedly in other threads and don't need to rehash them again.

[willie warrior]

Let's just get Bobby Knight and get this over with

Good idea--I'd take Knight in a heartbeat--even if he is about 70.

[Pakuni]

Cons
- High profile transfers of players

Curious as to what you consider a "high profile" transfer versus, I suppose, a "low profile" transfer.
Was Maymon any more "high profile" than ODB?
Was Roseboro more "high profile" than Dameon Mason?
Was Reggie Smith more high profile than Shannon Smith? Or Alton Mason?

Just trying to figure out what makes MU's more recent transfers especially high profile.

[MUfan12]

I'm not sure if "high-profile" is more about the players, or the timing.

Having mid-year transfers raises more eyebrows than ones in the summer, when they usually occur.

[tower912]

Was Newbill more high profile than Saunders?       Don't forget Amo, Mort, Bell, Matthews, Christian, Menard, Howard.  Those must have been 'traditional' transfers.  I don't blame Christopherson or Mbakwe on either coach.  Coaching transition transfers don't really count to me.        Reggie Smith is not all that high profile.    Jeronne.....just an unfortunate situation all around.     This should be an interesting coaching opening.    If Buzz says after the tourney is over that he has no interest and repeats his line about staying at MU as long as they will have them, then I think that the only ones we will need to worry about are A&M and Texas.  

[Pakuni]

I'm not sure if "high-profile" is more about the players, or the timing.

Having mid-year transfers raises more eyebrows than ones in the summer, when they usually occur.

OK.
So did the transfers of Alton Mason, Brandon Bell, James Mathews and Niv Berkowitz also raise eyebrows more than others?

If someone were to complain that MU's had too many transfers under Buzz, I could understand the gripe. Not sure I'd be as equally concerned, but at least I could understand. But for the life of me I can't figure out how anyone would consider Maymon, Smith, Roseboro, etc. as any more "high profile" than ODB, Mason, Amo, etc.

[Aughnanure]

Was Newbill more high profile than Saunders?       Don't forget Amo, Mort, Bell, Matthews, Christian, Menard, Howard.  Those must have been 'traditional' transfers.  I don't blame Christopherson or Mbakwe on either coach.  Coaching transition transfers don't really count to me.        Reggie Smith is not all that high profile.    Jeronne.....just an unfortunate situation all around.     This should be an interesting coaching opening.    If Buzz says after the tourney is over that he has no interest and repeats his line about staying at MU as long as they will have them, then I think that the only ones we will need to worry about are A&M and Texas.  

I'd add Oklahoma to that list as well, along with the 5 schools that can steal every coach (Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, North Carolina)

[NersEllenson]

Sure, but we have discussed them here repeatedly.  I do not like the transfer issues like Maymon and Smith, but that isn't entirely his fault.  However, the Newbill issue was terrible.  That should have never occured.

As for bench coaching, I think the defensive issues that we have had since he has been our coach are ridiculous and need to be corrected.

However, I like the guy, he obviously is a very good recruiter, and seems to be learning on the job.  Therefore that is why I am "satisfied" but not "thrilled."

And you can counter this all you want, but I am not really going to engage in discussion around these items because I have discussed them all repeatedly in other threads and don't need to rehash them again.

Solid points.  I've also indicated I didn't like the whole Newbill fiasco - though I do believe there was a side agreement..that went bad.  Regardless, the moral of that is to not engage in side deal recruiting practices.

Agree our defense hasn't been great and has room for improvement.  Beyond that, I don't have many complaints, and I'm personally thrilled with the job Buzz has done.  Think the needle is pointing up talent-wise..and the next couple of years we stand a very good chance of returning to an upper echelon Big East team..potential Sweet 16/Elite 8 qualifier.

[Marquette84]

OK.
So did the transfers of Alton Mason, Brandon Bell, James Mathews and Niv Berkowitz also raise eyebrows more than others?

If someone were to complain that MU's had too many transfers under Buzz, I could understand the gripe. Not sure I'd be as equally concerned, but at least I could understand. But for the life of me I can't figure out how anyone would consider Maymon, Smith, Roseboro, etc. as any more "high profile" than ODB, Mason, Amo, etc.

Maymon was one of the highest ranked players we've seen transfer, certainly the highest-rated in-state player to transfer.  I'm not sure, but I don't think Wisconsin has seen a player ranked as high as Maymon ever transfer.  Maymon came from a school in the backyard of our biggest in-state rival, and news of his recruitment and subsequent transfer thus generated significantly more news in both the Milwaukee and Madison markets than, say, Kevin Menard or Neil Plank leaving their respective teams.  

Does that help you figure out why at least one of those players had a higher profile?

[jmayer1]

Maymon was the highest ranked player we've seen transfer, certainly the highest-rated in-state player to transfer.  I'm not sure, but I don't think Wisconsin has seen a player ranked as high as Maymon ever transfer.  Maymon came from a school in the backyard of our biggest in-state rival, and news of his recruitment and subsequent transfer thus generated significantly more news in both the Milwaukee and Madison markets than, say, Kevin Menard or Neil Plank leaving their respective teams.  

Does that help you figure out why at least one of those players had a higher profile?

Sam Okey?

[Marquette84]

Sam Okey?

Maybe--I though Maymon was ranked higher, but it might be Okey.

Still--his transfer was higher profile than Neil Plank as well--and for obvious reasons.

[DrDestiny911]

Call me stupid but why would Buzz even consider leaving even if he was offered the job. I'm fairly sure MU is way more basketball royalty than Arkansas and its in the premiere basketball conference. I got Crean peacing out for Indiana, Indiana has more basketball prestige and its Big Ten which is almost Big East level.

The SEC is a dropoff from BE, B10, ACC and B12 at least thats my impression. Then would it be solely the cash? I feel like we could match whatever offer Arkansas puts forth no? I dunno I'm very skeptical that Buzz would wanna leave a team on its way up with a team that still needs some work and there is a lot of pressure. For now all Buzz has to do at MU is keep us dancing and he'll be off the hot seat.

[Pakuni]

Maymon was the highest ranked player we've seen transfer, certainly the highest-rated in-state player to transfer.  I'm not sure, but I don't think Wisconsin has seen a player ranked as high as Maymon ever transfer.  Maymon came from a school in the backyard of our biggest in-state rival, and news of his recruitment and subsequent transfer thus generated significantly more news in both the Milwaukee and Madison markets than, say, Kevin Menard or Neil Plank leaving their respective teams.  

Does that help you figure out why at least one of those players had a higher profile?

Judging the significance, or even the high-profile nature, of a transfer by where the kid was ranked coming out of high school is silly. Especially compared to games played, games started, points scored, etc.
But even then, you're still wrong.
Dameon Mason was higher rated out of high school than Maymon, and certainly more well regarded nationally (pretty sure that was him I saw playing alongside LeBron James in the Roundball Classic).
Add to that fact that Mason had started 44 games at MU when he transferred - 35 more than Maymon played -  and there's really no comparison.  Likewise with ODB. He may not have been as high in the all important high school rankings, but he was a returning starter from a 26-7 team that had legit (obviously) aspirations of a deep tourney run.
The chicken littles around here may have tried to make a bigger deal of Maymon, but Mason and ODB were by far more significant - and higher profile - transfers.

And given that Maymon wasn't even recruited by UW, I don't see the whole rivalry angle you're trying to pitch.

But you're right, it was a bigger deal than Kevin Menard. Can't argue with that outstanding point.