Vander's Play

[BCHoopster]

Vander is growing up on the court and you can see it.  Defensively he is long, can jump and keeps
his man in front of him.  Looks like he is having fun again, during the year he was totally out of sync.
Offensively, it is going to take him a couple more years.  Next year he will get 6 to 8, but with DJO
gone after next year, he is going to have to carry some of the load.  As Al stated, the best thing
about freshman, is they become sophomores.  Butch Lee his freshman year was not very good either.
He was pretty good at the end, MVP of NCAA tournament.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Vander is a hustler, I'll give him that. I think he can become a great player...a role player...as he gets older. But he's never going to be a great offensive player. Bookmark this if you'd like.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Vander is growing up on the court and you can see it.  Defensively he is long, can jump and keeps
his man in front of him.  Looks like he is having fun again, during the year he was totally out of sync.
Offensively, it is going to take him a couple more years.  Next year he will get 6 to 8, but with DJO
gone after next year, he is going to have to carry some of the load.  As Al stated, the best thing
about freshman, is they become sophomores.  Butch Lee his freshman year was not very good either.
He was pretty good at the end, MVP of NCAA tournament.

THANK YOU!

What don't people get about the fact that he's a freshman?  And a YOUNG freshman at that?  He could still be a senior in high school, he doesn't turn 19 until the summer.  But let's blast him because he's not all-conference yet.  God, our fans can be so short-sighted, negative and dumb.  He will be a COMPLETELY different player next year.  Bookmark this if you like.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I thought Vander had a couple of key rebounds tonight.  He's still going to need to rebuild his entire game in the offseason, but tonight was a positive step forward.

[ErickJD08]

I thought Vander had a couple of key rebounds tonight.  He's still going to need to rebuild his entire game in the offseason, but tonight was a positive step forward.

He also got screwed out of a steal... Even Jay thought so.

[Doc]

Vander is a hustler, I'll give him that. I think he can become a great player...a role player...as he gets older. But he's never going to be a great offensive player. Bookmark this if you'd like.

I think we need to wait a little longer to make such a definitive statement. Vander has struggled with his shot this season and lost confidence, which is a key element in any sport you play. Let's see how he comes back next year after having an offseason to work on his shot. If he can gain confidence in his shot after a summer of work, it's possible he can be a great offensive player.

I remember watching Vander in the state tournament when he was a junior in high school. I tuned in to see Jeronne Maymon. After watching a little bit of the game, I was thinking we signed the wrong guy -- Vander was very impressive. Going from Wisconsin HS basketball to the Big East, however, is a pretty big jump... let's give him some time.

Lazar's freshman year wasn't awesome. Stats don't always tell the true story, but Lazar's FG% as a freshman was less than two percentage points better than Vander. Lazar averaged 6.6 points/game, while Vander's at 5.6/game. Jimmer Fredette from BYU only averaged 7 pts/game as a freshman and his FG% was actually a little lower than Vander's. This year, Fredette's averaging 28 pts/game.

You may end up being right. All I'm saying is it's too early to tell for sure.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He also got screwed out of a steal... Even Jay thought so.

You mean the one around half court where he stepped out of bounds?  I agree..that was a foul.

[Les Nessman]

THANK YOU!

What don't people get about the fact that he's a freshman?  And a YOUNG freshman at that?  He could still be a senior in high school, he doesn't turn 19 until the summer.  But let's blast him because he's not all-conference yet.  God, our fans can be so short-sighted, negative and dumb.  He will be a COMPLETELY different player next year.  Bookmark this if you like.

+1

[DaCoach]

Get all the digs in now because you  won't have Mr. Blue to pick on after this year. A little birdie told me he's going to be a first round NBA draft choice.

Will he go ahead of or behind Maymon?

[Mutaman]

God, I hate it when our anonymous "fans" go after an 18 year old kid. Gutless, cowardly children.

Hey Lenny, just so we don't upset you again in the future, why don't you give us a set of guidelines for those we can "go after" that you won't consider "cowardly" or "gutlesss". Is 19 the limit? 20? Are all college players exempt? Its the internet- I want to go after people. But I want to show guts too. Come on Lenny, set some guidelines.

[GGGG]

I don't see any reason with work in the off season, that Vander couldn't develop the offensive game that would allow him to be a consistent 12-15 ppg performer by the time he's a senior.  He has the physical tools.  He's instictive and smart on the defensive end.

[radome]

MU up 14-8 and Blue comes in for Butler.
WVU scores 9 straight, 17-14, Vander sits.

MU up 28-24 and Blue comes in for Butler.
WVU scores 10 straight, 34-28, Vander sits.

Butler is our best defender, he is always given the toughest assignment. This should be more about the value of JB than about Blue. He is a Freshman, most don't even see the floor. He is contributing now and will get better. Additionally, Buzz doesn't give away time in Big East games. He sees something in Blue that isn't obvious to us amateurs although many on here see his potential. He has quickness, you can't teach that.

[MerrittsMustache]

MU up 14-8 and Blue comes in for Butler.
WVU scores 9 straight, 17-14, Vander sits.

MU up 28-24 and Blue comes in for Butler.
WVU scores 10 straight, 34-28, Vander sits.

Vander finished with a +/- of -3, although he was +10 in the second half. In case you were wondering, DJO was -4 and Otule was -7 for the game. Where are the threads ripping them?

I still think that Vander has potential to be a similar player to Terrence Williams from L'ville or Brad Wanamaker from Pitt. He's not going to be a 20ppg guy, but he's really going to fill up the stat sheet. Unfortunately, I feel like many fans are going to only pay attention to his points and label him a bust.

[CTWarrior]

The one thing I thought Vander did last night well was rebound.  I think his defense is solid, not tremendous.  I think he will get better and better at this aspect of his game and become a real defensive stopper over time.  He's just not strong with the ball.  But he's playing with more confidence overall and is progressing.  I don't see any offensive talent there (other than quickness) whatsoever.  He's got a shaky handle, shaky hands, no shooting touch and little court vision/awareness.  I suppose a lot of that is fixable.

Of course I am far from an expert on potential.  If you told me yesterday afternoon that Junior Cadougan was capable of playing like he did in the second half last night I'd have said never.

[downtown85]

He's still going to need to rebuild his entire game in the offseason, but tonight was a positive step forward.

+1  He definitely has raw talent. He needs to improve his shooting (free throws and jump shooting) and general decision-making.  He needs to spend a lot of time in the gym for sure.  He still can be a special player based on this inate talent, but HE needs to bring it out.

[PBRme]

Vander finished with a +/- of -3, although he was +10 in the second half. In case you were wondering, DJO was -4 and Otule was -7 for the game. Where are the threads ripping them?

I still think that Vander has potential to be a similar player to Terrence Williams from L'ville or Brad Wanamaker from Pitt. He's not going to be a 20ppg guy, but he's really going to fill up the stat sheet. Unfortunately, I feel like many fans are going to only pay attention to his points and label him a bust.

Thank you for injecting reason to go with the "data"

[ringout]

But, But, But...Vander is a great defender.

Couldn't take your shot on the other thread, so you take a shot at Vander.  You're pathetic.

[21Jumpstreet]

I have been and will continue to be a Vander supporter.  He hustled, rebounded very well, and played nice D.  When he was in he was active, vocal, demonstrative, and kept the energy high.  He made smart passes, did not take bad shots, and is earning his time.  Without the bench, including Vander, we lose.

[esotericmindguy]

God, I hate it when our anonymous "fans" go after an 18 year old kid. Gutless, cowardly children.

You know what Lenny, if he can't take it don't come play high level DI basketball and accept a $200,000 scholarship. The guy needs to step it up big time, it's painful to watch right now.

[MUBurrow]

theres a reason +/- stats are taken with a grain of salt.

And has been hinted at but never explicitly said in this thread, there's huge different between saying that we get into trouble when JFB is out as opposed to when Vander is in. Its kind of reminiscent of a WAR stat in baseball.  JFB's WAR stat would be through the roof, and at this stage I'm guessing VB would probably break about even. Not a knock, just that its not how little we gain thats the problem, its what we lose.

[NersEllenson]

You know what Lenny, if he can't take it don't come play high level DI basketball and accept a $200,000 scholarship. The guy needs to step it up big time, it's painful to watch right now.

Tragic.

[lurch91]

You mean the one around half court where he stepped out of bounds?  I agree..that was a foul.

Totally agree.  It was like the kid for WVa thought it was the NFL and pushed Vander so he'd land out of bounds.

[uncle zeffy]

The people down on Vander are the same ones who were down on Junior 3 months ago. Give the kid some time to develop his game at this level, he may end up surprising you.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Thought Vander played well - great energy, great defense, great hustle, excellent rebounding, ball hawking; the only problem is that Vander needs to go to "shooting school" to correct his mechanics.  His shooting form is way off, but, it is correctable.  Suggest he work with a coach specializing in shooting mechanics during the off season to improve his shooting.  Vander will be an outstanding Warrior!  Keep playing hard and close out on your drives.

[MUMac]

I don't see any reason with work in the off season, that Vander couldn't develop the offensive game that would allow him to be a consistent 12-15 ppg performer by the time he's a senior.  He has the physical tools.  He's instictive and smart on the defensive end.

+1

Go back to when Vander was a Sophomore in HS.  He had a very nice and smooth shot from 3 range.  He was hurt as a Junior and may have developed some bad fundamentals on his shot.  It needs to be broken and rebuilt.  That is what the offseason will do.  It can be done.  Should have been done in High School, but his coach was Steve Collins, so that would never have happenned ...