Vander's Play

[Lennys Tap]

You know what Lenny, if he can't take it don't come play high level DI basketball and accept a $200,000 scholarship. The guy needs to step it up big time, it's painful to watch right now.

Can't take it? He's an 18 year old kid dealing with more pressures and expectations than most of us ever will. He lives under a microscope and has to answer to his teachers, his teamates, his family, his coaches and himself on a daily basis. That's a lot of "it" he's taken, and in spite of his struggles he appears to be handling things pretty well. The (sh)it he didn't sign up for is your "I'm payin' his salary (scholarship) and I can rip him whenever and however I see fit" attitude. I recall this board (correctly) criticizing UW fans who went after Vander after his decommittment. Now that he's "ours" I guess some think he's fair game and he owes us something. I think he and all our players deserve better than that.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Can't take it? He's an 18 year old kid dealing with more pressures and expectations than most of us ever will. He lives under a microscope and has to answer to his teachers, his teamates, his family, his coaches and himself on a daily basis. That's a lot of "it" he's taken, and in spite of his struggles he appears to be handling things pretty well. The (sh)it he didn't sign up for is your "I'm payin' his salary (scholarship) and I can rip him whenever and however I see fit" attitude. I recall this board (correctly) criticizing UW fans who went after Vander after his decommittment. Now that he's "ours" I guess some think he's fair game and he owes us something. I think he and all our players deserve better than that.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[MUMac]

Can't take it? He's an 18 year old kid dealing with more pressures and expectations than most of us ever will. He lives under a microscope and has to answer to his teachers, his teamates, his family, his coaches and himself on a daily basis. That's a lot of "it" he's taken, and in spite of his struggles he appears to be handling things pretty well. The (sh)it he didn't sign up for is your "I'm payin' his salary (scholarship) and I can rip him whenever and however I see fit" attitude. I recall this board (correctly) criticizing UW fans who went after Vander after his decommittment. Now that he's "ours" I guess some think he's fair game and he owes us something. I think he and all our players deserve better than that.

+10000000000000

[willie wampum]

+1

Go back to when Vander was a Sophomore in HS.  He had a very nice and smooth shot from 3 range.  He was hurt as a Junior and may have developed some bad fundamentals on his shot.  It needs to be broken and rebuilt.  That is what the offseason will do.  It can be done.  Should have been done in High School, but his coach was Steve Collins, so that would never have happenned ...

If his shot can be rebuilt in an off-season, why wasn't it fixed after his Senior season of high school?

I agree with the opinion that he's destined to be the "high energy role player" who can't score but might get a key rebound (which he had a few of last night) or steal.

[MUMac]

If his shot can be rebuilt in an off-season, why wasn't it fixed after his Senior season of high school?

I agree with the opinion that he's destined to be the "high energy role player" who can't score but might get a key rebound (which he had a few of last night) or steal.

Don't know the answer for certain, but sometimes the player must also know it's broken to be fixed.  I think that step has occurred.

I had heard a comment attributed to a well known coach who was critical of Vander's HS coach due to his poor fundamentals and felt MU would need to break him down and rebuild him.  That takes time and commitment.  A lot more time from April to October than there is from July to October.

[MerrittsMustache]

If his shot can be rebuilt in an off-season, why wasn't it fixed after his Senior season of high school?

I agree with the opinion that he's destined to be the "high energy role player" who can't score but might get a key rebound (which he had a few of last night) or steal.

His outside shot has gotten worse as the season has gone on. In all likelihood there was work being done about his shot in the offseason but he has regressed or gone back to/picked up some bad habits. When he takes an outside shot, he looks like he's thinking too much which is a classic problem for players who are re-tooling their shots.

[GGGG]

Vander's HS coach is much more of a recruiter than a coach.  Same with his AAU coach.  I'm not surprised that he has work to do, but he is far from the only player in college today that needs work done.  And he isn't the first to bristle under a tough coach when asked to do the work.  It seems that Vander has turned the corner though and has bought in completely.

And I think Vander *was* working on his shot last summer but the college game is so much faster that it is hard to make it "natural."

[MUFC9295]

You know what Lenny, if he can't take it don't come play high level DI basketball and accept a $200,000 scholarship. The guy needs to step it up big time, it's painful to watch right now.

Vander might not play to his potential, but he certainly doesn't owe anything to the fans.  And the "he can't take it" posts are just irresponsible.  But if one feels that way, I suggest these fans ask Vander for some of that cash back.  See how it works out.

Enjoy our team win or lose.  You don't have to like players or their performances, but you are only entitled to wearing the colors and your opinion.

[MerrittsMustache]

theres a reason +/- stats are taken with a grain of salt.

And has been hinted at but never explicitly said in this thread, there's huge different between saying that we get into trouble when JFB is out as opposed to when Vander is in. Its kind of reminiscent of a WAR stat in baseball.  JFB's WAR stat would be through the roof, and at this stage I'm guessing VB would probably break about even. Not a knock, just that its not how little we gain thats the problem, its what we lose.

Instead of starting a thread ripping Vander, it could have been spun into a "Butler's Value" thread. In 36 minutes of play, Jimmy was +13 last night. In the 4 minutes he was out, MU was -7. A line of 9 points, 2 reb, 2 asts, 2 TO might not look all that impressive but Jimmy came to play. Perhaps there is some senior leadship on this team after all.

[Mutaman]

Can't take it? He's an 18 year old kid dealing with more pressures and expectations than most of us ever will.

Bunk! I don't know what you do for a living but when my alarm goes off at 6:00 AM every day I know the actions I take and the decisions I make are going to effect the lives of a lot of people. Running around in short pants and dribbling a basketball doesn't compare.

[MerrittsMustache]

Bunk! I don't know what you do for a living but when my alarm goes off at 6:00 AM every day I know the actions I take and the decisions I make are going to effect the lives of a lot of people. Running around in short pants and dribbling a basketball doesn't compare.

Are there 19,000 people watching you do your job in person? Do these people boo and yell terrible things at you when you make a mistake? After a bad day or even an average day at work, do people go on message boards and complain about how terrible you are at your job and how you don't belong at the company? When you took the job, did people from other companies harass you and your family and say that you only took that job because you were too dumb to take a job at their company? Do you go to class 12-18 hours a week on top of doing your job? Do you spend nights studying for exams?

Yes, I'm sure that there's pressure at your job but if you did that "job" in the public eye, I'm sure you'd notice an entirely different type of pressure.

[LON]

Bunk! I don't know what you do for a living but when my alarm goes off at 6:00 AM every day I know the actions I take and the decisions I make are going to effect the lives of a lot of people. Running around in short pants and dribbling a basketball doesn't compare.

What's your name?  Where do you work?  Can I come and yell crap at you when you're making these "decisions"?

The "anonymity crutch" used on this board is disappointing...regarding Vander doing something that "doesn't compare" to your almighty daily actions obviously affects you enough to come onto a message board and comment and take shots at him...

I'm all for opinions and discourse, but crap like this and what esotericmindguy posted are just pointless.

Is it jealousy?

[MUBurrow]

Bunk! I don't know what you do for a living but when my alarm goes off at 6:00 AM every day I know the actions I take and the decisions I make are going to effect the lives of a lot of people. Running around in short pants and dribbling a basketball doesn't compare.

How are people so proud of themselves for something that literally everyone on the planet does?

[Mutaman]

What's your name?  Where do you work?  Can I come and yell crap at you when you're making these "decisions"?

I'm starting a trial in Manhattan Supreme,  Monday. 9:30 sharp. A few million and some folks  futures riding on how I perform. Come on down.  When the Judge and my adversary are finished yelling crap at me, you can take your turn.  Welcome to the real world. Poor Vander.

[LON]

I'm starting a trial in Manhattan Supreme,  Monday. 9:30 sharp. A few million and some folks  futures riding on how I perform. Come on down.  When the Judge and my adversary are finished yelling crap at me, you can take your turn.  Welcome to the real world. Poor Vander.

I'll start now.  You're a classless dick that boosts his own self esteem by tearing down others.  Congrats.

Wouldn't your clients futures be better served without you wasting time chastising an 18 year old anonymously on the internet?

I mean, I'm no lawyer and don't get to make "decisions" that affect "millions"...but that's just me.

[MerrittsMustache]

I'm starting a trial in Manhattan Supreme,  Monday. 9:30 sharp. A few million and some folks  futures riding on how I perform. Come on down.  When the Judge and my adversary are finished yelling crap at me, you can take your turn.  Welcome to the real world. Poor Vander.

You forgot the teal.

[Mutaman]

Wouldn't your clients futures be better served without you wasting time chastising an 18 year old anonymously on the internet?

Just taking a quick break.

Where Have I chastised him? I'm just saying we have a right to chastise him if we want to.

Now hurry along son, you don't want to miss your Phy Ed class.

[LON]

Just taking a quick break.

Where Have I chastised him? I'm just saying we have a right to chastise him if we want to.

Now hurry along son, you don't want to miss your Phy Ed class.

I don't have class, I'm Chicos' auditor 

[Mutaman]

I don't have class, I'm Chicos' auditor 

That's a good one.
Nothing personal buddy, we're all Warrior fans. And i hope Vander has a triple double tonight.

[esotericmindguy]

Can't take it? He's an 18 year old kid dealing with more pressures and expectations than most of us ever will. He lives under a microscope and has to answer to his teachers, his teamates, his family, his coaches and himself on a daily basis. That's a lot of "it" he's taken, and in spite of his struggles he appears to be handling things pretty well. The (sh)it he didn't sign up for is your "I'm payin' his salary (scholarship) and I can rip him whenever and however I see fit" attitude. I recall this board (correctly) criticizing UW fans who went after Vander after his decommittment. Now that he's "ours" I guess some think he's fair game and he owes us something. I think he and all our players deserve better than that.

You're assuming quite a bit from my two sentences and missed the point. I don't "pay his salary" or care that he gets a free ride. But when you commit to playing major DI basketball you also accept the pressure and expectations that come with it. You act like 18/19 is so young, these guys aren't you when you were 18, they've been dealing with these expectations since they were 16, sometimes younger. People are allowed to criticize the kid if they feel fit, playing hard is something that should be assumed as far as I'm concerned...he needs to improve his game.

As far as pressure, what's more pressure performing on a freakin basketball court or having family depend on your work performance? Come on, it's a cute little game involving putting a ball through a hoop.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Vander has the talent to become a great player.  He's a freshman playing in the Big East and already he's a contributor to the team's success.  He needs to improve his shooting mechanics; perhaps work with a coach specializing in shooting mechanics.  His defense and rebounding skills are excellent.  I look forward to watch Vander play the next three years.  He will be a leader and go to guy for Marquette.  Meanwhile, ring out ahoya!  Let's win tonight!!!

[mosarsour]

Hey Lenny, just so we don't upset you again in the future, why don't you give us a set of guidelines for those we can "go after" that you won't consider "cowardly" or "gutlesss". Is 19 the limit? 20? Are all college players exempt? Its the internet- I want to go after people. But I want to show guts too. Come on Lenny, set some guidelines.

Nothing better than an "internet tough guy". 

[Lennys Tap]

As far as pressure, what's more pressure performing on a freakin basketball court or having family depend on your work performance? Come on, it's a cute little game involving putting a ball through a hoop.

Anyone who has ever played anything close to big time sports couldn't have written this post.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I'm starting a trial in Manhattan Supreme,  Monday. 9:30 sharp. A few million and some folks  futures riding on how I perform. Come on down.  When the Judge and my adversary are finished yelling crap at me, you can take your turn.  Welcome to the real world. Poor Vander.

Gee whiz!! You're in New York City? You must be some kind of big shot!

Impressive!!