Worst coached team in the conference. Period.

[rocky_warrior]

Seriously?  People are still ticked about about how quickly Buzz was hired?  Good grief people - learn to move on with life!

[ZiggysFryBoy]

What MU should have done was posted the job externally for 2 weeks, then brought the candidates in for an HR interview, waited a week, then did call backs to meet the hiring manager, waited another week, brought the candidates in to meet all of the bosses and then after gathering input from all of the stakeholders, made a decision and extend an offer, including the benefits package.

[NersEllenson]

Ners you keep moving the goalposts. You said they have accomplished significantly less. We aren't debating which program is best.

It really is pointless to debate with you on this issue - because it is you who keeps moving the goalposts.  When you make a statement - about how much worse off those programs were (Prov, Virginia, Arizona, Alabama), then I shift the debate to the program.  Initially, you tried to argue that Buzz's results haven't been significantly better than Miller, Davis, Grant and Bennett -  but since they ARE better - and significantly better - you then brought up the "state of those programs."  Now, you complain that I am debating which program is best?  I'm pretty much mindf'd at this point!!

LOL....**YOU** brought them up!!!  I didn't...

That's what I figured your argument would be.  I am excluding Davis, but the other three all started at places that were in much worse shape than MU was when Buzz took over.  You don't seem to take that into consideration.  Anything to make Buzz look good in your eyes...

[groove]

Seriously?  People are still ticked about about how quickly Buzz was hired?  Good grief people - learn to move on with life!

Yes, lets beat Seton Hall and turn the tide around. It would be nice to jump out to a fast start and have someone shoot lights out. Get some confidence flowing and relax at the line.

[willie warrior]

Quite the thread we have here. Chico's said we hired Williams in 72 hours. Was it really that quick? I do remember that the search did not last too long. If it was in 72 hours, then we could not have reached out to all the guys that supposedly nixed us from the above posts.

And by the way, 3 days is simply not long enough to do a sufficient search.

[CTWarrior]

I truly believe that those people made those assertions based on who brought them in and not based on their ability.  I remember reading absolutely ridiculous commentary last year that not only weren't they high major DI, but not DI players at all, which was insanity.

I for one didn't think Acker and Cubillan were High D1 players because going into their senior years (with the exception of one of Cubi's seasons, freshman I think) they hadn't played very well for us at all.  I was glad to be wrong.

[groove]

Quite the thread we have here. Chico's said we hired Williams in 72 hours. Was it really that quick? I do remember that the search did not last too long. If it was in 72 hours, then we could not have reached out to all the guys that supposedly nixed us from the above posts.

And by the way, 3 days is simply not long enough to do a sufficient search.

from an earlier post from chicos : "Depends when you start the clock.  Search process started April 2nd, Buzz was announced April 8th but the decision to hire him was prior to the 8th with first leak that he was the guy on April 6th.  Since Buzz wasn't option A or B, some will argue the clock doesn't start until after Miller and Bennett said no (Bennett on April 3rd and Miller on April 4th). "

[GGGG]

It really is pointless to debate with you on this issue - because it is you who keeps moving the goalposts.  When you make a statement - about how much worse off those programs were (Prov, Virginia, Arizona, Alabama), then I shift the debate to the program.  Initially, you tried to argue that Buzz's results haven't been significantly better than Miller, Davis, Grant and Bennett -  but since they ARE better - and significantly better - you then brought up the "state of those programs."  Now, you complain that I am debating which program is best?  I'm pretty much mindf'd at this point!!

Whoa we have now entered "imaginary MUScoop" where Ners gets to make up what other people say!!!  

I never once said "state of the programs" or anything of the sort.  I said that those coaches took over basketball teams in worse shape which is why Buzz has accomplished "significantly more" in terms of won/loss.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Quite the thread we have here. Chico's said we hired Williams in 72 hours. Was it really that quick? I do remember that the search did not last too long. If it was in 72 hours, then we could not have reached out to all the guys that supposedly nixed us from the above posts.

And by the way, 3 days is simply not long enough to do a sufficient search.

Some will say 6 days...search started the 2nd, announcement was the 8th but it was leaked on the 6th it was Buzz's job. 

IMO, doesn't much matter.  Water under the bridge at this point, but that doesn't mean it should be ignored, either.  I'll disagree with Rocky and Z' on that one.  Buzz is our guy and he's done a good job in 2.5 years.  What will be critical to watch is how he does the next 2.5 years as he's further and further away from previous regime.  That's how he will make his claim one way or the other. 

I don't think this year's run is over.  4 of the final 5 are winnable games.  It's up to Buzz and the guys to go get those wins.

[NersEllenson]

Whoa we have now entered "imaginary MUScoop" where Ners gets to make up what other people say!!!  

I never once said "state of the programs" or anything of the sort. I said that those coaches took over basketball teams in worse shape which is why Buzz has accomplished "significantly more" in terms of won/loss.

???  You aruged this morning that Buzz hasn't accomplished significantly more than Davis, Miller, Grant and Bennett - now above you say Buzz has??  It really is pointless to debate with you on this topic.  What is the difference between "state of the programs," and "basketball teams in worse shape?"  Amazingly, though - you never even said "basketball teams in worse shape" in your original post, your wrote "places" (to me places sounds geographical/state of the program-ish??:

I am excluding Davis, but the other three all started at places that were in much worse shape than MU was when Buzz took over.  You don't seem to take that into consideration.  Anything to make Buzz look good in your eyes...
[/quote]

[NersEllenson]

You sure about this?  In terms of win/loss percentage probably, but Buzz also inherited a team with a great deal of talent.  Bennett is a national coach of the year recipient.  Grant has turned Alabama around from nothing in his second year.  Sean Miller has Arizona on the top of the Pac Ten.  (If you mean Keno Davis by Davis, I don't think MU ever looked at him and he is a notch below the rest.)

I really doubt that if those three were in Buzz's shoes that the results would have been any worse.  So to say he has done "significantly" better is a little misleading.

??

[Dr. Blackheart]

So....with 4 bona fide HOF coaches already in or as a lock (Calhoun, Boeheim, Huggins and Pitino), two of the youngest and winningest coaches in Dixon (tied for most wins ever in first 7 seasons) and Wright (best offensive mind), Brey a Duke disciple (300+ career wins), four with successful coaching fathers if not HOF (Thompson, Willard, Davis, Rice), Heath who was an Izzo disciple has been a head coach at three schools, Purnell who has successively rebuilt multiple programs, and now Lavin is very accomplished and a great recruiter with Dunlop and HOF Keady on the bench.  Multiple national champions, coaches of the year, NBA players, high NCAA finishes, NIT...

And you want to compare them to Buzz's chops?  I think Buzz is holding his own on most days...he has a lot of growing to go but is open about it and makes adjustments game to game.  Frustrating as a fan but also he is very creative and innovative--especially on offense..and these coaches fear playing MU.  But, is it any wonder that these other guys ran for the hills when MU came a-knocking?  Buzz is self-made and will get us there--mainly by trying to outwork everyone else.  

[4everwarriors]

Ners----Bob Huggins went to Manhattan, KS, Lavin would have come to MU. Unfortunately Cottingham listened to TC and Doc Rivers and the rest is history.

I stick with my premise that MU and too many fans set a low bar for us. Hear all the time "he would not" or "why would He come here?" from posters on here. Money talks and we walk.

Don't forget Crean got into Strong's head also and Dickie had a very "strong" say in the process.

[GGGG]

Ners...please stop misrepresenting what I have said. YOU are the one that said he accomplished significantly more. I have disputed your assertion from the beginning.

[marquette99]

Disagree - I thought the really bad performance was offense today.  The scored 80 points because our offense gave up a ridiculous 13 steals.  When was the last time that happened?

Defense was above average on the defensive boards and fg percentage.

I think trashing the defense today is like trashing a defense in a game with several pick sixes.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So....with 4 bona fide HOF coaches already in or as a lock (Calhoun, Boeheim, Huggins and Pitino), two of the youngest and winningest coaches in Dixon (tied for most wins ever in first 7 seasons) and Wright (best offensive mind), Brey a Duke disciple (300+ career wins), four with successful coaching fathers if not HOF (Thompson, Willard, Davis, Rice), Heath who was an Izzo disciple has been a head coach at three schools, Purnell who has successively rebuilt multiple programs, and now Lavin is very accomplished and a great recruiter with Dunlop and HOF Keady on the bench.  Multiple national champions, coaches of the year, NBA players, high NCAA finishes, NIT...

And you want to compare them to Buzz's chops?  I think Buzz is holding his own on most days...he has a lot of growing to go but is open about it and makes adjustments game to game.  Frustrating as a fan but also he is very creative and innovative--especially on offense..and these coaches fear playing MU.  But, is it any wonder that these other guys ran for the hills when MU came a-knocking?  Buzz is self-made and will get us there--mainly by trying to outwork everyone else.  

Just last year people here were saying Buzz was 10X the coach of Brey.  The way people bagged on Purnell and Lavin, you would be surprised those two knew the ball was round. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Just last year people here were saying Buzz was 10X the coach of Brey.  The way people bagged on Purnell and Lavin, you would be surprised those two knew the ball was round. 

Is Brey a great recruiter? No--relies on transfers-in but has been adequate...has always been a great game and prep coach. It took Goody to get hurt for him to change his philosophy for the better I must say. Brey was in trouble last year for off-the-court stuff. 

As you know, Lavin always has been a great recruiter...and he has shored up his weaknesses on the chairs next to him.  Being an analyst may have made him wiser. Was already in a pressure cooker so knows the BE grind. 

Purnell hire stunned me...will be into his 60's if he can turn it around.  Chicago AAU and CPS scene is tempting but is a tempest in a teapot. Still think this is a mis-fit long-term. Solid hire but the AD and school support is pathetic. 

[berndie90]

I still think that the best coach is about 90% recruiter, 9% teacher and 1% strategist.  Buzz is probably the best recruiter since Al.

And what exactly qualifies Buzz as the best recruiter since Al McGuire?  His teams haven't made it past the second round in the tournament, they make dumb mistakes (yes - if you don't want to put it on his coaching, then you can put it on his recruiting).

As a college coach, not only do you set the offense, call the plays, and train your players, but you PICK them as well.  I can understand if you are a Junior College and have guys who simply can't make shots, but Buzz has gone after a rag-tag bunch of players that play poor defense (no, running over to help your fellow player and leaving someone wide open for a three is NOT good defense) and now he's getting blamed for it - as he should!

He runs this team 100%, and he needs to take what's coming to him.  The original poster made a great point when they said that he did his best when the rest of Crean's crop was still here.  The more players we lose from Crean's era, the worse we become, and Buzz's "best" recruiting skills since Al are not improving the team.  We've gotten worse each year since Buzz started.  Yes, we've lost some good players.  But that's Buzz's job - fill the holes with new, great players.

Sorry dude, but you gotta go.

[BUzz Willliams 4 Mayor]

Buzz is the man...Love his hi-tops!

[Marquette84]

The performance of Davis PALES in comparison to Buzz Williams.  Bennett, Grant and Miller haven't done jack the past 2 seasons.  So Sean Miller has Arizona at the top of the Pac 10 this year?  How did he fare last year?  Was Arizona not a Top 5-10 program under Lute Olson?  Pretty strong legacy of success at Arizona. 

And FYI - the point I made was in response to the poster inquiring as to who we might have been able to land if not Buzz at the time of his hire.  Those who are frustrated with the Buzz hire, mention we didn't wait long enough to see who else was available - based on who shot us down - hard to believe and established, accomplished, successful veteran coach would have accepted the MU gig.

I think you're wrong in your statement that 4 coaches shot us down.  I think the right number was 2--Bennett and Miller.  The others announced that they weren't interested in the job after they knew that they weren't going to be considered--at least not until after MU looked at their 3rd choice--Buzz Williams.  

The names of the experienced, successful coaches that many thought we should have considered include Southern Illinois' Chris Lowery, Vandy's Kevin Stallings, Wright State's Brad Brownell, Bradley's Jim Les, Creighton's Dana Altman.

Its hard to believe that all of those coaches would have turned us down.  

[NersEllenson]

I think you're wrong in your statement that 4 coaches shot us down.  I think the right number was 2--Bennett and Miller.  The others announced that they weren't interested in the job after they knew that they weren't going to be considered--at least not until after MU looked at their 3rd choice--Buzz Williams.  

The names of the experienced, successful coaches that many thought we should have considered include Southern Illinois' Chris Lowery, Vandy's Kevin Stallings, Wright State's Brad Brownell, Bradley's Jim Les, Creighton's Dana Altman.

Its hard to believe that all of those coaches would have turned us down.  

It is also highly suspect to think MVC/Horizon coaches could recruit at a Big East required level.  Would we really be happy with bringing in coaches like Brownell and Les??  What have they accomplished? Why would Stallings leave Vandy for MU?  What upside does MU offer that Vandy does not?

[groove]

It is also highly suspect to think MVC/Horizon coaches could recruit at a Big East required level.  Would we really be happy with bringing in coaches like Brownell and Les??  What have they accomplished? Why would Stallings leave Vandy for MU?  What upside does MU offer that Vandy does not?

at least as good as a coach from the Sun Belt conference

[NersEllenson]

And what exactly qualifies Buzz as the best recruiter since Al McGuire?  His teams haven't made it past the second round in the tournament, they make dumb mistakes (yes - if you don't want to put it on his coaching, then you can put it on his recruiting).

As a college coach, not only do you set the offense, call the plays, and train your players, but you PICK them as well.  I can understand if you are a Junior College and have guys who simply can't make shots, but Buzz has gone after a rag-tag bunch of players that play poor defense (no, running over to help your fellow player and leaving someone wide open for a three is NOT good defense) and now he's getting blamed for it - as he should!

He runs this team 100%, and he needs to take what's coming to him.  The original poster made a great point when they said that he did his best when the rest of Crean's crop was still here.  The more players we lose from Crean's era, the worse we become, and Buzz's "best" recruiting skills since Al are not improving the team.  We've gotten worse each year since Buzz started.  Yes, we've lost some good players.  But that's Buzz's job - fill the holes with new, great players.

Sorry dude, but you gotta go.

Sorry dude - but if you think coaches at a school like MU hand select the Top 100 recruits they land...well...sorry dude..but you gotta go.

Would you care to tell us how Crean did after the Final Four team -pretty sure there were 2 terrible recruiting classes that followed, and 2 subsequent NIT appearances.  did Crean all of a sudden lose the knack for "picking"his players he brought into MU?  NO..you win some and lose some in recruiting.  This isn't pro ball where you have a draft - I assume you know the difference, right?

[NersEllenson]

at least as good as a coach from the Sun Belt conference

It is idiots like you that are the reason I post topics such as "I hope Buzz Williams leaves MU after this season." 

[groove]

It is idiots like you that are the reason I post topics such as "I hope Buzz Williams leaves MU after this season."  

So  what is the difference between Buzz being in the Sun Belt and the others being in MVC or Horizon? Buzz came from the Sun Belt and is recruiting at his current level. Why would those qualified coaches from the MVC or Horizon not be able to recruit at that level