Indiana at Wisconsin tonight ESPN

[Pakuni]

By the way, I believe all schedules are not created equal as well.  Ken Pom has data going back the last 8 years (not counting this year).

Not only does UW have a better record than MU over that time period, they also played a tougher schedule than MU in 6 of those 8 years.  They are on pace to play a tougher schedule then we do this year as well.

Lip service...I tell ya, lip service.  

Yes, and that's almost entirely the result of MU's cupcakes being weaker than UW's cupcakes.
I daresay that since 2005, MU has played a much tougher conference schedule and I'd certainly match up our top non-conference games this year (Duke, Vandy, Gonzaga) over theirs (UNLV, Boston College, Notre Dame).

Edit: Well, I guess I'm to blame here for taking certain statements at face value. What Chico's didn't tell us here is that in several of the "tougher schedule" years for UW, the difference between the two teams' SOS is so negligible that it renders the comparison moot. We're talking thousandths of a percentage point under the Pomeroy rating system. For example, in '07 UW's schedule was given a .767 rating to MU's .761. In '08 it was .782 to .779. Another year was .770 to .733. These are hardly significant differences.
Lesson learned.

As for pros, if you only found seven former Bo players who've gotten paid to play, you sure didn't look very hard. It took me all of five minutes to find 16 of them (Tucker, Penney, Harris, Butch, Krabbenhoft, Bohannon, Wilkinson, Flowers, Stiemsma, Landry, Tayor, Nixon, Owens, Helgmik, Morely, Hughes).

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is why I mentioned "weird" agenda - as you celebrate Tom Crean's 200th win (or at least have knowledge of such an obscure fact - which leads one to believe you clearly follow the man's career QUITE closely - for NOT being a fan?), but then as you suggest here - you argue UW has been a better program than MU from 2000-2010 under which Tom Crean presided for 8 years - and to quote YOU:  "It's not even close."  Yet, you fail to provide any counterpoints to Pakuni's analysis between MU and UW's results over the last decade," nor do you speak to his point that UW has had MORE players in trouble with the LAW than has MU in the past 10 years, and it has graduated LESS of its players than has MU - which as everyone here knows - you constantly obsess about our programs image, graduation rate, etc...Again..it is just weird the lack of consistency in your arguments.

LOL.  Do you know why I knew of the 200th win?  Certainly not because of some love affair. I went to game recap from the other day and it stated it in the article.  Otherwise I had no idea.  It was right in the headline of the article.  I had to do a little research because I knew Pakuni's comments that a player missed THAT GAME due to academics wasn't the complete story...which of course it wasn't, he had missed 12 games.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gamecenter/recap/NCAAB_20091208_IN@PITT/indiana-downs-pittsburgh-at-msg-gives-crean-200th-victory



What inconsistency?  The facts are there and I've laid them out thoroughly.  Pakuni is the one that decided professional meant only NBA.  Pakuni is the one that decided comparing wins and losses straight up without looking at the schedule strengths was some how....ahem..."consistent".

No weird inconsistency at all.  You will note that TIME and TIME and TIME again I have bashed UW-madison for their multiple NCAA probations and noted we have none.  The problem is, that none of them are in basketball so they've have their successful runs without cheating on the basketball court.  Issues with the law?  Yes, they've had their share, so have we...some which never hit the press.  Unlike their football program where an arrest gets you a gatorade bath and a suspended practice, their basketball program has kicked those players to the curb.  That seems to be the right thing to do, don't you think?

[MerrittsMustache]

No weird inconsistency at all.  You will note that TIME and TIME and TIME again I have bashed UW-madison for their multiple NCAA probations and noted we have none.  The problem is, that none of them are in basketball so they've have their successful runs without cheating on the basketball court.  Issues with the law?  Yes, they've had their share, so have we...some which never hit the press.  Unlike their football program where an arrest gets you a gatorade bath and a suspended practice, their basketball program has kicked those players to the curb.  That seems to be the right thing to do, don't you think?

(whispering from the bushes) There's the bait into the next topic that Chicos would like to "debate."  I can only assume that he's attempting to bring up some "inside info" that he can't share with the rest of the board. Let's watch and see how this plays out...

[ATL MU Warrior]

(whispering from the bushes) There's the bait into the next topic that Chicos would like to "debate."  I can only assume that he's attempting to bring up some "inside info" that he can't share with the rest of the board. Let's watch and see how this plays out...

I think we all know how this plays out....ad nauseum.   

[NersEllenson]

(whispering from the bushes) There's the bait into the next topic that Chicos would like to "debate."  I can only assume that he's attempting to bring up some "inside info" that he can't share with the rest of the board. Let's watch and see how this plays out...

+1

[mviale]

Can Indy beat Iowa?

[warthog-driver]

Can Indy beat Iowa?

No

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, and that's almost entirely the result of MU's cupcakes being weaker than UW's cupcakes.
I daresay that since 2005, MU has played a much tougher conference schedule and I'd certainly match up our top non-conference games this year (Duke, Vandy, Gonzaga) over theirs (UNLV, Boston College, Notre Dame).

Edit: Well, I guess I'm to blame here for taking certain statements at face value. What Chico's didn't tell us here is that in several of the "tougher schedule" years for UW, the difference between the two teams' SOS is so negligible that it renders the comparison moot. We're talking thousandths of a percentage point under the Pomeroy rating system. For example, in '07 UW's schedule was given a .767 rating to MU's .761. In '08 it was .782 to .779. Another year was .770 to .733. These are hardly significant differences.
Lesson learned.

As for pros, if you only found seven former Bo players who've gotten paid to play, you sure didn't look very hard. It took me all of five minutes to find 16 of them (Tucker, Penney, Harris, Butch, Krabbenhoft, Bohannon, Wilkinson, Flowers, Stiemsma, Landry, Tayor, Nixon, Owens, Helgmik, Morely, Hughes).

Let's try again Pakuni.  Yes or no, did Wisconsin play tougher schedules than MU in 6 of the last 8 years?  What is factually incorrect about what I said?  I await your answer.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Can Indy beat Iowa?

Yes.  Will they, who knows.  Can MU blow another double digit lead in the second half in one week's time?  Yes. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Yes.  Will they, who knows.  Can MU blow another double digit lead in the second half in one week's time?  Yes. 

What does MU have to do with a Indiana-Wisconsin thread?

[Lennys Tap]

What does MU have to do with a Indiana-Wisconsin thread?

If it gives CBB an opportunity to kick our players, coaches and fans in the b*lls, everything.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If it gives CBB an opportunity to kick our players, coaches and fans in the b*lls, everything.

Nah, our play on the court and the lack of in game adjustments does that just fine on it's own.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What does MU have to do with a Indiana-Wisconsin thread?

Funny, I don't remember you chiming in on the other 5 or 6 tangents in this thread that had nothing to do with the IU-Wisconsin thread....hmmm.

[MerrittsMustache]

Funny, I don't remember you chiming in on the other 5 or 6 tangents in this thread that had nothing to do with the IU-Wisconsin thread....hmmm.

I didn't read this whole thread. I just checked in to see what direction it had gone in (though I had a pretty good idea). I'd gladly eat crow if you could bring up other examples from this thread where posters went out of their way to take shots at MU's current team.

[MU B2002]

Technically... Wasn't our largest lead in the 2nd 9pts?  Still single digits. ;-)


I was wrong.

[OnWisconsin]

157-11 at the Kohl

I would venture to say that no team in the last 50 years has been that dominant at home and NOT won any postseason tournament or even threatened to do so.  What conclusion can we draw from that???

You can come to the conclusion that we are the best team in the state, and have been for quite a while now. Some would argue that an Elite Eight and multiple Sweet Sixteens would count as threatening, but not in your book I'm sure. While I'm greedy and would prefer deeper tournament runs, we still have a real good thing going in Madison.

[MerrittsMustache]

You can come to the conclusion that we are the best team in the state, and have been for quite a while now. Some would argue that an Elite Eight and multiple Sweet Sixteens would count as threatening, but not in your book I'm sure. While I'm greedy and would prefer deeper tournament runs, we still have a real good thing going in Madison.

What exactly does the title of "Best Team in the State" get you? Do the players get rings for that? Do teams hang banners in their arenas and have victory parades? 

[warthog-driver]

What exactly does the title of "Best Team in the State" get you? Do the players get rings for that? Do teams hang banners in their arenas and have victory parades? 

I understand the truly elite basketball programs take great pride in hanging banners from pre-season tournaments.

If Marquette still has those stupid things hanging in either the BC or The Al we should beseech Buzz to have them removed. Immediately. How embarassing.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What exactly does the title of "Best Team in the State" get you? Do the players get rings for that? Do teams hang banners in their arenas and have victory parades? 

I'd bet it helps to get in state recruits

[Lennys Tap]

I'd bet it helps to get in state recruits

Actually Wisconsin has always fared better with in state recruits, even when we were a national powerhouse and they were terrible.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually Wisconsin has always fared better with in state recruits, even when we were a national powerhouse and they were terrible.

Always, never, vast majority.




You know that is selective on your part.  KO went in and got Damon Key, Robb Logterman, and Jim MacIlvaine in the same class...all from Wisconsin. 

Crean got Novak, Diener, Sanders, Merritt

It has swung back and forth and has not ALWAYS been in Wisconsin's favor.

[Lennys Tap]

Always, never, vast majority.




You know that is selective on your part.  KO went in and got Damon Key, Robb Logterman, and Jim MacIlvaine in the same class...all from Wisconsin. 

Crean got Novak, Diener, Sanders, Merritt

It has swung back and forth and has not ALWAYS been in Wisconsin's favor.

My mistake, I should have said that Wisconsin has "tradionally" fared better, even when we were a national powerhouse and they were putrid. A class or a player here and there doesn't change that. The fact remains that most of their recruits are local (Wisconsin, Minnesota, some Iowa and Illinois) while ours tend to be more national. They're "done" if they can't recruit the upper midwest.

[MerrittsMustache]

I'd bet it helps to get in state recruits

Who cares? In the last 4-5 years, what in-state player has gone to Wisconsin who was also recruited heavily by MU? For the most part, the programs are looking for different types of players due to their vastly different playing styles.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Who cares? In the last 4-5 years, what in-state player has gone to Wisconsin who was also recruited heavily by MU? For the most part, the programs are looking for different types of players due to their vastly different playing styles.

Nankivil, Gavinski, etc.

We're both going after Tokoto.

[MerrittsMustache]

Nankivil, Gavinski, etc.

We're both going after Tokoto.

Two guys who fit much better into Wisconsin's system plus and "etc." Wow. MU really needs to step up their in-state recruiting!