Should Buzz be fired?

[tower912]

I haven't read every post over the past 2-3 days.  Could you link to a post where someone is suggesting Buzz be fired? 

I guess I've read a lot about people blaming the coach for this epic choke-job, but I never read anyone saying anything close to "he should be fired."   .. So if you could point that out, it'd be appreciated.

Just running it up the flagpole to see who salutes. 

[avid1010]

We probably need to sit together like one party is proposing for the State of The Union so we may sing kumbaya together.

Good analogy.  Throughout the history of the USA you would be the party that is not in charge, but demands perfect results from the opposing party, while clearly not understanding the topics at hand, let alone offering any ideas on how to solve the issues at hand.  You do this to the point that one questions whether or not you can truly care about your country (team), or just care about your own agenda, and when that concern is raised you jump up and down and wonder how anyone can make such an accusation.  Are you Nancy or Newt?

[mu_hilltopper]

Just running it up the flagpole to see who salutes. 

I hate that kind of gross exaggeration.  So, in short, no one made those statements, yet you've posted a thread suggesting they have.  That's really not helpful.   

[brewcity77]

Buzz shouldn't be fired, but he should start learning from incidents like this. We've seen this tale play itself out three times now. Huge second-half leads evaporate into a crushing loss, each time with something on the line (Old Spice tourney title, NCAA second round, and it's freaking Louisville). Not to mention giving away other games that seemed to have been won (West Virginia, Notre Dame, Vandy).

My honest assessment of this team is that they should be 16-2 right now. Due to various lapses, we're 12-6. I think for the most part that's on our head coach. He's brought in a great roster. He motivates them and gets them going for every game. But he doesn't get them to finish it out.

We need to start finishing those games this year, but more importantly, we need to start finishing those games next year in November. This team has decent experience, but Buzz needs to make sure that guys like Blue, DJO, Crowder, Wilson, Cadougan, and the rest of the guys that will be around next fall are learning from what's going wrong with this team. I don't mind mistakes. I may hate seeing a loss snatched from the jaws of victory like we have done far too often, but I can live with it as long as we learn from it. In the past two years, we've seen it blatantly happen at least 6 times I'd say. The first year, I'll call it chance. The second year, we can call it coincidence. I just don't want to see throwing away wins become something that Marquette considers a trend.

[warriors1991]

It's silly to talk about Buzz being fired. I'm a fan of Buzz, he's a very good recruiter, and I think he's learning to coach. Still things to learn of course, we can continue to hope he learns them.

My question, as I can't read every post on here and immediately ignore threads that devolve into Buzz vs. I4, is this:

Has Buzz come out and taken any responsibility for the loss? It would make me feel MUCH better about the future of his coaching progress if I were to hear him say "Yeah, in retrospect it was probably way to early to start trying to slow the game down. We were walking all over them with 5+ minutes left, had them on their heels and were beating them silly on both sides of the ball, and then we backed off. We'll learn, or at least I will learn, in the future, that when you get a good opponent down that far, you need to step on their necks and put them out of their misery rather than back off and give them a little life. By the time I tried get our boys to just start playing again, Knowles had gotten hot and the cat was out of the bag. Won't happen again."

A fella can dream.........

[Rubie Q]

My question, as I can't read every post on here and immediately ignore threads that devolve into Buzz vs. I4, is this:

Has Buzz come out and taken any responsibility for the loss? It would make me feel MUCH better about the future of his coaching progress if I were to hear him say "Yeah, in retrospect it was probably way to early to start trying to slow the game down. We were walking all over them with 5+ minutes left, had them on their heels and were beating them silly on both sides of the ball, and then we backed off. We'll learn, or at least I will learn, in the future, that when you get a good opponent down that far, you need to step on their necks and put them out of their misery rather than back off and give them a little life. By the time I tried get our boys to just start playing again, Knowles had gotten hot and the cat was out of the bag. Won't happen again."

He said about a quarter of what you did, but he did take the blame:

"We did not finish the game with poise," Marquette coach Buzz Williams said. "We did not play with the same sort of mentality that we had played with up until that point. That is my fault more than it is anybody else's."

[tower912]

I hate that kind of gross exaggeration.  So, in short, no one made those statements, yet you've posted a thread suggesting they have.  That's really not helpful.   

Actually, I was trying to defuse the board by putting a straightforward question out there so we could have a discussion about it.   Please note that no one has come out and said they want him fired and only one has even insinuated mildly in that direction.   

[Marquette84]

A Crean line up would not have this much depth

What depth?

We only have 7 players averaging more than 10 mpg on the season.  In conference we're relying even more on the top 7--even in a blowout.

In the 21 point win over ND, we actually had our top 7 account for 188 of 200 minutes.  That's 94% of available minutes.  Against Rutgers our top 7 only had 183 minutes, and against Pitt our top 7 had 181.  And these are the games we went deep into the bench.

Against Louisville, our top 7 played 192 of 200 minutes.  Against WVU our top 7 played  193 of the 200 minutes.  

I think the "we have the deepest team in years" argument has been way overplayed.   

[tower912]

Yeah, but Murf is thrilled because we used way too many guys in the preseason.   

[willie warrior]

Good analogy.  Throughout the history of the USA you would be the party that is not in charge, but demands perfect results from the opposing party, while clearly not understanding the topics at hand, let alone offering any ideas on how to solve the issues at hand.  You do this to the point that one questions whether or not you can truly care about your country (team), or just care about your own agenda, and when that concern is raised you jump up and down and wonder how anyone can make such an accusation.  Are you Nancy or Newt?

I understand as much as you, just do not pretend like you do.

[ATL MU Warrior]

What depth?

We only have 7 players averaging more than 10 mpg on the season.  In conference we're relying even more on the top 7--even in a blowout.

In the 21 point win over ND, we actually had our top 7 account for 188 of 200 minutes.  That's 94% of available minutes.  Against Rutgers our top 7 only had 183 minutes, and against Pitt our top 7 had 181.  And these are the games we went deep into the bench.

Against Louisville, our top 7 played 192 of 200 minutes.  Against WVU our top 7 played  193 of the 200 minutes.  

I think the "we have the deepest team in years" argument has been way overplayed.   

I think the difference would be very apparent in the event (god forbid) one of our core guys goes down with an injury.  At most positions, we have a very talented backup.  Certainly a more talented backup than we've had the luxury of having in recent times, due to transfer and injury. 

Talent alone does not equal consistent results, but at least we've got someone we can throw into the fire who has demonstrated at some level that they can play. 

Hopefully the depth of the team is not really tested in this way.

[GGGG]

No Buzz should not be fired.  It is silly to even suggest it.

If he runs a clean program and gets us into the NCAA with some regularity, that's fine by me.

[mileskishnish72]

I've liked Buzz all along, and firing seems inappropriate at this juncture. I like his enthusiasm, I like his energy, I like the ways he gets his guys to play hard. I have never thought he was a good game-management guy - he needs to show IMPROVEMENT in this regard and to be honest, I'm not seeing it. When he took the air out of the ball, the team looked like they didn't know what they were doing. The repeated gaffes on defense in the final seconds are not acceptable. I know it's only his third year and he's still learning but this is an area that is a deficiency and it's like a cornerback getting beat - it's right out in the open for all to see. My hope is that he's a smart enough guy and a proud enough guy to work on this problem, get better at it, and be at MU for a long time.

[RawdogDX]

Should tower912 be banned?

I don't think so. Lots of people disagreed with him recently and criticized this thread.  So if you do, man up, stop beating around the bush and say so. 

[brewcity77]

Should tower912 be banned?

I don't think so. Lots of people disagreed with him recently and criticized this thread.  So if you do, man up, stop beating around the bush and say so.

I don't think tower should be banned. I think that his comments in here were tongue in cheek enough that we can overlook them and keep him around, but he should start learning from incidents like this.

[tower912]

Now that would be funny.

[brewcity77]

Now that would be funny.

I guess you must be the next nomorebuycks of MUScoop

[Goose]

No way fired but he needs better surrounding cast of basketball minds sitting next to him. Recruiting is great and he can get players. He also has proved winning close games just does not happen often enough. All great coaches have great staffs and Buzz needs help. One note in my opinion is Buzz is no longer young coach. In today's sports world he is middle aged.

I would think with Strong's history of having smart people around him that Buzz will get resources he needs. I say overpay for an experienced former head coach to join staff.

[avid1010]

I understand as much as you, just do not pretend like you do.

I'm not the one making demands of Buzz or making fun of those who say "in Buzz we trust."  Like I said a million times...offer a solution.  You offer non...just empty complaints and demands.  That's not discussion, that's complaining.  I didn't realize this board was for people to post complaints about MU basketball, I thought it was a place for fans to debate issues and play Monday morning quaterback. 

[NersEllenson]

I know this thread wasn't started in the spirit of Tower thinking Buzz should be fired - but if any here even think he should be anywhere even remotely close to a "hot seat" - sorry, but you are a complete idiot.  The overreaction of many MU fans is naseuating.  It was a BAD loss to Lville, yes.  MU has had some heartbreaking losses in the Buzz regime thus far. 

Let's maintain some perspective and realize Buzz is 38 years old and only in year 3 as MU's head coach.  We were picked 12th in the Big East last pre-season - we all know we vastly exceeded expectations.  MU84 might argue he projected a 5th place finish based on the talent of the team - Butler, DJO, Buycks combined with the remaining "talent" of Mo Acker and David Cubiallan and Lazar.  Without Butler and DJO at minimum..no way MU makes the NCAA last year.  Who got them here?  Buzz.

This year's team will be an NCAA team.  Period.  Might even break through to a Sweet 16 appearance.  We have more talent on the roster than at any time since Al McGuire.  We will likely be better next year.  Some here bitch about Buzz recruiting JUCO's - yet our JUCO's have been great players and great kids.  Some people just like to bitch to bitch.  Buzz makes mistakes just like every coach does - but for those perfect armchair fans out there that are perfect - get a grip...

[Goose]

Not sure I agree on most talented team but big believer in JUCO route. For MU to compete at a high level we have to bring kids who can play at high level and do so quickly. I have no problem with JUCO route and think Buzz has mastered blending these guys into the program.

[avid1010]

Not sure I agree on most talented team but big believer in JUCO route. For MU to compete at a high level we have to bring kids who can play at high level and do so quickly. I have no problem with JUCO route and think Buzz has mastered blending these guys into the program.

I think there are pros and cons to anything.  It's hard to say where we would be without our JUCO's as it's impossible to say who Buzz would have recruited instead; however, I don't believe Buycks makes the dumb move he did the other night if he's a 4-year senior rather than a 2-year senior....imho.

[brewcity77]

I'm not the one making demands of Buzz or making fun of those who say "in Buzz we trust."  Like I said a million times...offer a solution.

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but I think that adding an assistant with head coaching experience, like Lavin has done at St. John's with Keady, would be a great solution. The odds are that we won't get anyone that high profile, but I think there are probably some veteran experienced D3 guys who could even help when it comes to just the X's and O's, which seems to be all Buzz really needs a hand with.

This year's team will be an NCAA team.  Period.  Might even break through to a Sweet 16 appearance.  We have more talent on the roster than at any time since Al McGuire.  We will likely be better next year.  Some here bitch about Buzz recruiting JUCO's - yet our JUCO's have been great players and great kids.  Some people just like to bitch to bitch.  Buzz makes mistakes just like every coach does - but for those perfect armchair fans out there that are perfect - get a grip...

Agreed on most of this, except that first line. There's no way at this point we can know that. Right now we have 2 quality wins. That's not enough. We have no true quality road wins. I would say we need 4 quality wins at the minimum, and one needs to be on the road. If we take two of the four after DePaul, we're in good shape. If not, we will have to win either at UConn or Georgetown and we cannot afford the annual bad loss that plagues us. 10-8 in the Big East isn't anywhere near security this year, especially if our best win from here on out is Cincinnati or St. John's.

[77ncaachamps]

Agreed.  His team should have kept attacking on Saturday.   

Except for Dwight "NoMore" Buycks drive to the hoop in the waning seconds.

[GGGG]

This year's team will be an NCAA team.  Period.  Might even break through to a Sweet 16 appearance.  We have more talent on the roster than at any time since Al McGuire. 

This team does not have more talent than the 2003 Final Four team.  That team had three future NBA players.  This team doesn't even have the same talent as the 1994 Sweet 16 team.

If we make the NCAA tournament, it will be as a low seed and we'll be out in the first round.