Poor Maymon and Tenn

[4everwarriors]

Percussionist, maybe you're too young to remember a debacle in the NIT vs. Western Michigan?

[warthog-driver]

Percussionist, maybe you're too young to remember a debacle in the NIT vs. Western Michigan?

Certainly one of the lowest points in Marquette basketball history. I was in Iraq at the time, watching the game at the rec center (no alcohol.) I thought heading straight out the gates of Al Asad Air Base and letting the insurgents put me out of my misery....

[ChicosBailBonds]

Certainly one of the lowest points in Marquette basketball history. I was in Iraq at the time, watching the game at the rec center (no alcohol.) I thought heading straight out the gates of Al Asad Air Base and letting the insurgents put me out of my misery....

Oh the humanity

[ChicosBailBonds]

pathetic

Still waiting for you to answer the question from the other day....it's not ok for a kid to up and quit on the team (your words) but when a coach does it to a player (Newbill, Roseboro) you are silent.  I expected less of a double standard, especially from you Colonel.

[warthog-driver]

Still waiting for you to answer the question from the other day....it's not ok for a kid to up and quit on the team (your words) but when a coach does it to a player (Newbill, Roseboro) you are silent.  I expected less of a double standard, especially from you Colonel.

No double standard. Maymon and Smith quit on their team. We have no idea what happened with Newbill and Roseboro. Until I have some empiricism I cannot form any opinion. I weill say, that if Buzz Williams did not honor his word then i am beyond disappointment. In my world, a man's word is his bond. I give and expect nothing less in every way.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No double standard. Maymon and Smith quit on their team. We have no idea what happened with Newbill and Roseboro. Until I have some empiricism I cannot form any opinion. I weill say, that if Buzz Williams did not honor his word then i am beyond disappointment. In my world, a man's word is his bond. I give and expect nothing less in every way.

Well we have multiple sources saying he didn't honor his word, the Newbill family, Newbill and the Newbill coaches.  Is that not good enough or do their words not count? 

[Hards Alumni]

Their words are obviously biased.

[Jay Bee]

Well we have multiple sources saying he didn't honor his word, the Newbill family, Newbill and the Newbill coaches.  Is that not good enough or do their words not count? 

NLI is a contract.  By definition one party cannot quit on the other.  We have multiple conflicting sources - if you want to declare one a liar, go ahead and have your opinion. 

[avid1010]

Still waiting for you to answer the question from the other day....it's not ok for a kid to up and quit on the team (your words) but when a coach does it to a player (Newbill, Roseboro) you are silent.  I expected less of a double standard, especially from you Colonel.

Hell, the way your man crush shows for TC this type of thing (people walking out on committments) should make you proud. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

NLI is a contract.  By definition one party cannot quit on the other.  We have multiple conflicting sources - if you want to declare one a liar, go ahead and have your opinion. 

LOL.  It's a contract in which one party has 100% of the power and that sure as hell isn't the student athlete. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Hell, the way your man crush shows for TC this type of thing (people walking out on committments) should make you proud. 

I'm not playing the role of colonel and having one standard for one party and another standard for another party. I'm just trying to understand how he reconciles the two, but it seems fairly clear. 

My man crush is on Buzz, by the way.  A much nicer person than TC, not even close.  A better basketball coach and recruiter as well...I just hope he delivers the same results because as a better human being, better coach and better recruiter, it only makes sense that he would.  Can't wait for the Final Four appearances in the coming years, it's going to be fun.

[Jay Bee]

LOL.  It's a contract in which one party has 100% of the power and that sure as hell isn't the student athlete. 

Absolutely untrue.

[avid1010]

I'm not playing the role of colonel and having one standard for one party and another standard for another party. I'm just trying to understand how he reconciles the two, but it seems fairly clear. 

My man crush is on Buzz, by the way.  A much nicer person than TC, not even close.  A better basketball coach and recruiter as well...I just hope he delivers the same results because as a better human being, better coach and better recruiter, it only makes sense that he would.  Can't wait for the Final Four appearances in the coming years, it's going to be fun.

To do that Buzz may have to recruit some squirmmy players (don't qualify out of high school), but if he's lucky enough to land that special player and make a run to the FF, we can then watch him lobby for another job and walk out on his players in a classless manner.   

I think you're full of double standards.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not playing the role of colonel and having one standard for one party and another standard for another party. I'm just trying to understand how he reconciles the two, but it seems fairly clear. 

My man crush is on Buzz, by the way.  A much nicer person than TC, not even close.  A better basketball coach and recruiter as well...I just hope he delivers the same results because as a better human being, better coach and better recruiter, it only makes sense that he would.  Can't wait for the Final Four appearances in the coming years, it's going to be fun.

When your boy does his accounting will this sarcastic post be somehow misconstrued as a "positive" one?

[rugbydrummer]

Certainly one of the lowest points in Marquette basketball history. I was in Iraq at the time, watching the game at the rec center (no alcohol.) I thought heading straight out the gates of Al Asad Air Base and letting the insurgents put me out of my misery....

Hmmmm, true that.  I wasn't at that game, and don't think there was a good turn out.  It didn't help Travis Diener was out injured, yes?  So, certainly not a good showing.. but at that point in the season, well, there was a limit to much more success anyway.

[NersEllenson]

To do that Buzz may have to recruit some squirmmy players (don't qualify out of high school), but if he's lucky enough to land that special player and make a run to the FF, we can then watch him lobby for another job and walk out on his players in a classless manner.   

I think you're full of double standards.

Chicos double standards?  How dare you.  We all misconstrue his intent.  He really can't stand Tom Crean, and loves Buzz Williams..but for whatever reasons 90% of Scoop posters just aren't able to understand this. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Absolutely untrue.

Explain to me the power that the student athlete has with the NLI vs the school. 

It's a one sided contract.  Always has been.


I'll happily provide a few starters for you on the other side of the ledger

1)  Once you sign a NLI you cannot go to any other school unless the SCHOOL releases you.  You are stuck
2)  In conferences like the Big East, the athlete can no longer play at any other Big East school after signing a NLI
3)  If the school that signed you to a NLI wishes to act in a manner that isn't above reproach, they can the student athlete they will never play a single second or worse, will be put in for a few minutes to burn up a year of their scholarship unless the student athlete quits and demands a release from their NLI
4)  If the coach leaves after they signed the NLI, too bad, the player is stuck unless the SCHOOL releases the athlete.

That's just for starters

http://www.moneyplayersblog.com/blog/2010/11/the-nli-sucks.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/seth_davis/11/13/national.letter/

http://www.cbssports.com/b/page/pressbox/0,1328,4514960,00.html

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2009-10-01/ncaa-says-no-conditions-allowed-on-letters-intent

http://basketball.about.com/b/2010/11/10/letter-of-intent-still-a-bad-deal.htm

[ChicosBailBonds]

When your boy does his accounting will this sarcastic post be somehow misconstrued as a "positive" one?

He's not my "boy".  He volunteered for it.  Never met the person but he's a poster on this board.  He disagrees with me on a number of things and agrees on a number of others. 

Would it be a positive one, I think he's already reviewed 250 to 500 posts up to a certain date so I doubt the last few days are even included.  For the sake of argument, it wouldn't be a negative one....I'm dead serious.  I like Buzz more than TC.  I think Buzz is a better coach than TC (I think TC does a better job scouting, preparing teams, but that's must my two cents).  I think Buzz is a better recruiter than TC.

So what is negative about what I posted?  I suspect you mean the very last line?  Hmm, interesting.  Well, yes, it was a bit sarcastic but I would suppose he would argue this post was neutral.  In fact, I said three very nice things about Buzz and one sarcastic thing.  The way your mind works, that's a negative post.  The way reality works, it's not.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Hmmmm, true that.  I wasn't at that game, and don't think there was a good turn out.  It didn't help Travis Diener was out injured, yes?  So, certainly not a good showing.. but at that point in the season, well, there was a limit to much more success anyway.

Teams were announced on Sunday night, game was played Monday night....less than 24 hours to sell tickets, scout a team, etc.  The NIT is almost always like that for early games especially games played on less than 24 hours notice.  Not surprised at the turnout in that situation at all.

[ChicosBailBonds]

To do that Buzz may have to recruit some squirmmy players (don't qualify out of high school), but if he's lucky enough to land that special player and make a run to the FF, we can then watch him lobby for another job and walk out on his players in a classless manner.   

I think you're full of double standards.

He would never do that, he's stated he will stay at Marquette as long as Marquette will have him.  What TC did and how he did it, very poor on TC's part.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos double standards?  How dare you.  We all misconstrue his intent.  He really can't stand Tom Crean, and loves Buzz Williams..but for whatever reasons 90% of Scoop posters just aren't able to understand this.  

90%...is that like "vast majority"...you and Lenny trading notes again?  What year did you graduate from MU again?  LOL.

I've stated I dislike TC going back years Ners, but since you just joined a year and a half ago, I suppose you missed those threads.  I'll say it again, I like Buzz Williams.  I don't care for TC.  That being said, I respect what TC accomplished at MU.  I hope Buzz will be able to match that over 9 years, if he does, we're in for a treat.

Some crib notes for you, maybe you can bookmark them...just a few examples out of hundreds.

"I'm not a fan of MU basketball because I like the coach....I don't like Tom Crean, never have.  Now, I certainly defended him for many many many reasons....why, because he won, he didn't cheat, his guys graduated and he was competitive on a national stage.  He got MU on a national stage and I was willing to trade off his dickness for that.  In a heartbeat."   April 2, 2008

"Crean can be a SOB to work for"  March 24, 2007

"Many people knew he (Crean) was an ass and a salesman, but we liked the results" April 22, 2008

"I've called him a douche, a dick, a dink and a jerk"  April 3, 2008

Etc, etc, etc

[Tugg Speedman]

Anytime this thread wants to return to the topic of Tenn and JMay, I'm fine with it.

[Lennys Tap]

LOL.  It's a contract in which one party has 100% of the power and that sure as hell isn't the student athlete. 

If you have a problem with the national letter of intent and its provisions take it up with the NCAA, but whether it's fair or not has NOTHING to do with whether the Newbill camp's version of the events is true, false or somewhere in between. You CHOOSE to believe that everything they have said is true. And in doing so you CHOOSE to believe that what Buzz and MU said was false. I don't really give a crap who you believe but I am sick of you claiming moral superiority because of whom you picked.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If you have a problem with the national letter of intent and its provisions take it up with the NCAA, but whether it's fair or not has NOTHING to do with whether the Newbill camp's version of the events is true, false or somewhere in between. You CHOOSE to believe that everything they have said is true. And in doing so you CHOOSE to believe that what Buzz and MU said was false. I don't really give a crap who you believe but I am sick of you claiming moral superiority because of whom you picked.

Right back at you, I'm sick of you assuming everything out of MU's camp is sacrosanct.  Funny, it works both ways.  Maybe you are one of those guys that whatever the gov't says, you believe.  Whatever Prof Ph.D said, was gospel.   Sorry, the Jesuit school I attended, Marquette University, taught me to take in ALL the facts and weigh them, not just the ones I wanted to believe in.

As far as the NLI goes, the fact of the matter is the NLI is a joke and one sided. Jay Bee says that's not the case and I think I provided plenty of evidence that shows it is.  If he disagrees, he's free to refute that it's absolutely one sided against the athlete.

[mviale]

Right back at you, I'm sick of you assuming everything out of MU's camp is sacrosanct.  Funny, it works both ways.  Maybe you are one of those guys that whatever the gov't says, you believe.  Whatever Prof Ph.D said, was gospel.   Sorry, the Jesuit school I attended, Marquette University, taught me to take in ALL the facts and weigh them, not just the ones I wanted to believe in.

As far as the NLI goes, the fact of the matter is the NLI is a joke and one sided. Jay Bee says that's not the case and I think I provided plenty of evidence that shows it is.  If he disagrees, he's free to refute that it's absolutely one sided against the athlete.

You both need a timeout