What the hell is up?

[Lennys Tap]

Pesky Detail Alert.....

read the comments of the players and parents of IU players in that situation when they said it didn't matter who the coach was, they were leaving because of likely NCAA probation coming (which ended up not coming, but they weren't aware of that at the time).  The articles have been provided here multiple times for reference...feel free to read them and garner all the facts.

This ends the Pesky Detail Alert

So the guy who had the private meeting with Crean and found him to be such a prick that he threw a plant at him didn't stay because of the probation that never happened? Right. Even an IU/TC fanboy like yourself couldn't swallow that one.

[Buchec18]

Why does ever thread on here seem to turn to Tom Crean talk/IU talk?

[ChicosBailBonds]

So the guy who had the private meeting with Crean and found him to be such a prick that he threw a plant at him didn't stay because of the probation that never happened? Right. Even an IU/TC fanboy like yourself couldn't swallow that one.

TC Fanboy?  Hardly.  IU Fan....yeah, sort of, I do have a degree from there but they are way way way down my list.  I've watched one game of theirs this year and seen every MU game that was on tv....I know where my priorities lie.

The gentleman that threw the pot at him, oh there was definitely no love there.  None at all.  It's amazing when a coach tells you that you now actually have to go to class, you have to stop the activities that were unbecoming of the team and university, etc, etc...yeah, sometimes that leads to people throwing plants when they are no longer on the gravy train and an adult shows up.

Now, get real and talk about the other transfers and WHY they left.  Do you need their quotes from the articles again, the you tube interviews, the parents that are interviewed, the coaches, the recruiting scouts.  Or are you just going to ignore them again.  Here's a hint of crumbs for you just to get you started on the right path....why don't you google Jordan Crawford and his comments (plus his parents, coaches) after the IU debacle went down.  When you're done, then google Stephan Van Tresse, followed by Devin Ebanks, Armon Bassett, Eli Holman....happy to guide you through the process if you need some help.

[El Duderino]

Why does ever thread on here seem to turn to Tom Crean talk/IU talk?

I'm a big sports fan and thus read various forums in different sports of teams who play in Wisconsin. I found this forum about two years ago and in reading it, the whole Crean/Buzz dynamic on here is crazy. Never seen anything quite like it.

Countless threads on here that should have nothing to do with comparing Crean and Buzz, they end up though becoming a pissing matching between the Crean loving/Buzz dissing faction lead by that Chicos poster and the Crean hating/Buzz loving faction lead by Ners.

It's easy to see it coming too. All it takes is a certain type of thread topic or something said by one poster in a thread and it's a near 100% lock that the Crean/Buzz battle will be commencing.

For the main guys consistently involved in this, they have love anything to keep arguing about Crean and Buzz. Instead of Batman having the bat signal, i can almost picture this Chicos guy having his own Crean signal on his computer to let him know he needs to quickly get on this forum because a poster said something bad about Crean and Tom needs defending. Then the Crean haters have a Chicos signal to inform them that Chicos is online and running to the defense of his boy Crean again and/or trying take jabs at Buzz, so lets get him.

Rinse and repeat over and over.

[connie]

I'm a big sports fan and thus read various forums in different sports of teams who play in Wisconsin. I found this forum about two years ago and in reading it, the whole Crean/Buzz dynamic on here is crazy. Never seen anything quite like it.

Countless threads on here that should have nothing to do with comparing Crean and Buzz, they end up though becoming a pissing matching between the Crean loving/Buzz dissing faction lead by that Chicos poster and the Crean hating/Buzz loving faction lead by Ners.

It's easy to see it coming too. All it takes is a certain type of thread topic or something said by one poster in a thread and it's a near 100% lock that the Crean/Buzz battle will be commencing.

For the main guys consistently involved in this, they have love anything to keep arguing about Crean and Buzz. Instead of Batman having the bat signal, i can almost picture this Chicos guy having his own Crean signal on his computer to let him know he needs to quickly get on this forum because a poster said something bad about Crean and Tom needs defending. Then the Crean haters have a Chicos signal to inform them that Chicos is online and running to the defense of his boy Crean again and/or trying take jabs at Buzz, so lets get him.

Rinse and repeat over and over.

It is a bit predictable.

[willie warrior]

Maybe because he was the best on ball defender we had at the Point position?  Maybe because he was the quickest guy on the team?  Maybe because he wanted to get him game experience.  Maybe for once you could stop being a jag?

Here..for about the 10th post today..watch this video...now go try to tell me how you can think for a minute Reggie was promised tons of PT??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j9f2wr7q1g

You sir, are "entitled to your opinion". (Mod edit: don't personally attack the poster, attack the post)

That's it Ners--if you cannot argue the facts-start the name calling. A typical communist liberal tactic.

My point of the comment is pretty straight forward. If the guy was as lousy as many on this board are now saying, after he decided to leave, then why exactly was he starting?
Something about the Reggie Smith transfer smells. IMO he should not have been starting in the first place, but this was another example of B Williams playing mind games with players. This probably prompted Smith to transfer.
The other poster stated "why exactly would he promise him that" (more playing time). Why exactly was he starting Smith? It makes no sense, since he was  only getting 10 minutes a game. Of course  rotations are the coach's prerogative, but when the results are what they are, you have to start wondering what Williams is doing.
Williams conststant tinkering with the line up IMO is a joke and is mindless mind games with certain players.
Crowder and Gardner should be starting, and Buycks is not the best PG.

[bilsu]

Smith started the first couple of games, because Buycks sprained his ankle. I think it is a mistake to start a freshmen unless you are sure he is going to start the whole year. In my opinion they will not react well when they go from starting not starting.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm a big sports fan and thus read various forums in different sports of teams who play in Wisconsin. I found this forum about two years ago and in reading it, the whole Crean/Buzz dynamic on here is crazy. Never seen anything quite like it.

Countless threads on here that should have nothing to do with comparing Crean and Buzz, they end up though becoming a pissing matching between the Crean loving/Buzz dissing faction lead by that Chicos poster and the Crean hating/Buzz loving faction lead by Ners.

It's easy to see it coming too. All it takes is a certain type of thread topic or something said by one poster in a thread and it's a near 100% lock that the Crean/Buzz battle will be commencing.

For the main guys consistently involved in this, they have love anything to keep arguing about Crean and Buzz. Instead of Batman having the bat signal, i can almost picture this Chicos guy having his own Crean signal on his computer to let him know he needs to quickly get on this forum because a poster said something bad about Crean and Tom needs defending. Then the Crean haters have a Chicos signal to inform them that Chicos is online and running to the defense of his boy Crean again and/or trying take jabs at Buzz, so lets get him.

Rinse and repeat over and over.

Hey now, you're using my material...I threw up the bat signal over a year ago to show how this all works.  LOL.

For the record, I hardly "love Crean" and certainly don't hate Buzz.  I just marvel at the incredible inconsistencies people have in treating coaches of MU here.  I think we finally came to the truth this weekend as people admitted WHY, for the first time, they act the way they do.

[NersEllenson]

That's it Ners--if you cannot argue the facts-start the name calling. A typical communist liberal tactic.

My point of the comment is pretty straight forward. If the guy was as lousy as many on this board are now saying, after he decided to leave, then why exactly was he starting?
Something about the Reggie Smith transfer smells. IMO he should not have been starting in the first place, but this was another example of B Williams playing mind games with players. This probably prompted Smith to transfer.
The other poster stated "why exactly would he promise him that" (more playing time). Why exactly was he starting Smith? It makes no sense, since he was  only getting 10 minutes a game. Of course  rotations are the coach's prerogative, but when the results are what they are, you have to start wondering what Williams is doing.
Williams conststant tinkering with the line up IMO is a joke and is mindless mind games with certain players.
Crowder and Gardner should be starting, and Buycks is not the best PG.

Funny Willie - you asked the question Why Smith was starting..in response to another poster who refuted the notion that Reggie was promised playing time..and thus..he was playing...which clearly wasn't the case..as we saw in Reggies Revealed video..where he stated Buzz was the only coach that didn't promise him anything..so..my post simply answered your question as to why Reggie might have been starting.  Not sure where you feel I didn't argue the facts?

To suggest that "something smells" in the Reggie transfer is certainly not fact based..and your feeling that Buzz is playing mind games with players is yet another opinion.   Are you going to deny that Reggie Smith was NOT the best on-ball defender we had at the PG position?

[willie warrior]

However Ners, you did not address your name calling. Don't know if Reggie was the best on ball defender--because he didn'y play much in games I saw. If he was, then why did he start and only play 10 minutes?

Your opinion, was Reggie a stud or not? Did he deserve to start or not? If so, why was Buzz yanking him so quickly to never see the light of day again? I don't think he was that stud, therefore should not have been starting.

My only point through all this is, somebody needs to speak up and challenge Buzz's decision making on his starters/rotation. My guess is Reggie was frustrated big time because of starting and then being yanked. Who created that--Big Buzz!

Crowder should have been starting all along, and Gardner is the best post player and should be starting. Yeah it is my opinion that Williams is playing mind games with some of the players (Jr., DJO, and Gardner, and probably Reggie also)

[MerrittsMustache]

Crowder should have been starting all along, and Gardner is the best post player and should be starting. Yeah it is my opinion that Williams is playing mind games with some of the players (Jr., DJO, and Gardner, and probably Reggie also)

Who should Crowder have started in place of?

Gardner isn't in shape enough to play 25 minutes per game. He can score points but needs to work on his defense and rebounding.

Why would Buzz be playing mind games with his players? In what way would that be beneficial to anyone?

[NersEllenson]

However Ners, you did not address your name calling. Don't know if Reggie was the best on ball defender--because he didn'y play much in games I saw. If he was, then why did he start and only play 10 minutes?

Your opinion, was Reggie a stud or not? Did he deserve to start or not? If so, why was Buzz yanking him so quickly to never see the light of day again? I don't think he was that stud, therefore should not have been starting.

My only point through all this is, somebody needs to speak up and challenge Buzz's decision making on his starters/rotation. My guess is Reggie was frustrated big time because of starting and then being yanked. Who created that--Big Buzz!

Crowder should have been starting all along, and Gardner is the best post player and should be starting. Yeah it is my opinion that Williams is playing mind games with some of the players (Jr., DJO, and Gardner, and probably Reggie also)

It is obvious to all of us that Gardner is the best offensive option we have in the paint.  It is also obvious he doesn't yet have the conditioning to go 25+ minutes per game.  At the end of the day..I think Reggie Smith was a talented player, who will go on to have a very good careeer elsewhere.  You seem to always want to ridicule the "In Buzz We Trust" club...I don't take issue to questioning Buzz...but when it becomes the focal point of 75% of your posts..it gets old.  Now, if you can honestly say that you are not pleased with the oeverall state of the MU program righ tnow, the results Buzz has gotten on the floor thus far, that we've had no off-court incidents...then I guess rant on....but..when you clamor for Gardner starting and Jae Crowder starting..you do realize those were 2 spring signees that Buzz brought in last spring, correct?  DJO and Jimmy Butler were spring signees as well.  We now have 2 schoarlsrhips open for the spring..perhaps given the past track record this is why some say:  In Buzz we Trust.

[willie warrior]

Not buying the "In Buzz We Trust". Pure BS. I did not know that you have analyzed my over 1000 posts and find that 75% are critical of Buzz, that was very fast analysis.

I will continue to call them as I see them. I believe that he has been playing mind games with some of the players, and also believe that he has not been starting the 5 best all year--er, correction, the 5 toughest. Crowder and Gardner should be starting, and I believe that Crowder now is, but in the post. Wrong decision by Buzz, Crowder is not a post player. And Buycks is not an adequate PG, playing along side DJO.

I guess this is another negative Buzz post--kind of like when you challenge Obama's policies, you are a racist.

Happy New Year!!!!

[MerrittsMustache]

Not buying the "In Buzz We Trust". Pure BS. I did not know that you have analyzed my over 1000 posts and find that 75% are critical of Buzz, that was very fast analysis.

I will continue to call them as I see them. I believe that he has been playing mind games with some of the players, and also believe that he has not been starting the 5 best all year--er, correction, the 5 toughest. Crowder and Gardner should be starting, and I believe that Crowder now is, but in the post. Wrong decision by Buzz, Crowder is not a post player. And Buycks is not an adequate PG, playing along side DJO.

In your opinion, who should be the starting 5?

Also, I'll ask again, why would Buzz play mind games with his players? What purpose would that serve?

[NersEllenson]

Not buying the "In Buzz We Trust". Pure BS. I did not know that you have analyzed my over 1000 posts and find that 75% are critical of Buzz, that was very fast analysis.

I will continue to call them as I see them. I believe that he has been playing mind games with some of the players, and also believe that he has not been starting the 5 best all year--er, correction, the 5 toughest. Crowder and Gardner should be starting, and I believe that Crowder now is, but in the post. Wrong decision by Buzz, Crowder is not a post player. And Buycks is not an adequate PG, playing along side DJO.

I guess this is another negative Buzz post--kind of like when you challenge Obama's policies, you are a racist.

Happy New Year!!!!

I'm not even going to get into a political discussion with you.  Let's keep it basketball. Your latest post here simply reiterates what you stated previously...but I guess I was hoping to get your feedback on your feelings on the Buzz Williams regime thus far.  How do you feel about our on court results thus far - the last 2 seasons?  We know how you feel about this year.  How do you feel about our recruiting under Buzz?  Other than Al McGuire, is there a coach in our past that you would feel better about being at the helm?  Crean? Deane?  I'Neill?  Dukiet?  Majerus?  Considering MU was turned down by Tony Bennett, Anthony Grant, Keno Davis..who would you have liked MU to hire instead of Buzz?  Can you find a coach who has done a better job in his first 2.5 years on the job?  How is Buzz doing in comparison to our departed at Indiana?

[Goose]

Quite honestly I am not that comfortable with Buzz in charge. Love the athletic type kids he is recruiting but still think he is in over his head. BE ball and all at stake for MU I cannot say I completely comfortable with Buzz driving the bus. Just going on past history that 1-2 seasons can turn a program in either direction. Year 3 into the Buzz era and still lots of unknowns.

[willie warrior]

I'm not even going to get into a political discussion with you.  Let's keep it basketball. Your latest post here simply reiterates what you stated previously...but I guess I was hoping to get your feedback on your feelings on the Buzz Williams regime thus far.  How do you feel about our on court results thus far - the last 2 seasons?  We know how you feel about this year.  How do you feel about our recruiting under Buzz?  Other than Al McGuire, is there a coach in our past that you would feel better about being at the helm?  Crean? Deane?  I'Neill?  Dukiet?  Majerus?  Considering MU was turned down by Tony Bennett, Anthony Grant, Keno Davis..who would you have liked MU to hire instead of Buzz?  Can you find a coach who has done a better job in his first 2.5 years on the job?  How is Buzz doing in comparison to our departed at Indiana?

Lets see. Where to start:
I posted some time ago about my feelings about Williams. His recruiting has been pretty good, other than: Roseboro, Mbao, Maymon and now Smith. Can't remember if Monterale Clark was Buzz's, but you get the picture. He has missed on most of the true posts that he went after. I do believe Gardner will prove to be good.
I do not believe that all of the guys you mentioned turned MU down. Where did you learn that?
I never was a fan of the prima donna Crean, so I would say that Buzz compares pretty well against Crean. I do not think that any of Buzz's recruits are as good as Wade or Mathews, but Crean did not do great at recruiting for the post. Merrit was OK and Jackson was a transfer
The coach of the past that could do well at MU would be Majerus. However, he left a long time ago when the circumstances were a lot different. He did a hell of a job at Utah, and could have done as well here if he would have had committment from the University
aS i SAID PREVIOUSLY, bUZZ IS NOT STARTING THE RIGHT GUYS, AND HIS ROTATION IS SOMETIMES WIERD.

[NersEllenson]

Lets see. Where to start:
I posted some time ago about my feelings about Williams. His recruiting has been pretty good, other than: Roseboro, Mbao, Maymon and now Smith. Can't remember if Monterale Clark was Buzz's, but you get the picture. He has missed on most of the true posts that he went after. I do believe Gardner will prove to be good.
I do not believe that all of the guys you mentioned turned MU down. Where did you learn that?
I never was a fan of the prima donna Crean, so I would say that Buzz compares pretty well against Crean. I do not think that any of Buzz's recruits are as good as Wade or Mathews, but Crean did not do great at recruiting for the post. Merrit was OK and Jackson was a transfer
The coach of the past that could do well at MU would be Majerus. However, he left a long time ago when the circumstances were a lot different. He did a hell of a job at Utah, and could have done as well here if he would have had committment from the University
aS i SAID PREVIOUSLY, bUZZ IS NOT STARTING THE RIGHT GUYS, AND HIS ROTATION IS SOMETIMES WIERD.

I can respect your post and your thoughts.  Majerus definitely did well at Utah, and probably would have been okay at MU had he chosen to stay.  I really tend to think the rotaqtion will stabilize for Buzz as we get into Big East play...but he pretty much had to shuffle guys in and out to see who played best with who, how they reacted to big game atmosphere, etc.  Crowder probably will be in the starting lineup moving forward.  Buycks is better at the 2..but might be better all around than Junior at the 1 at this point.  We shall see now that Reggie is gone..Junior should get more minutes.  Gardner obviously has skills.

As for the recruiting..I'd simply say that nobody can bat 100% on recruits.  There will be some misses.  However, when I look at the MU roster this year, and next..I can't think any other coach could have done better.  Getting kids to Marquette is not as easy as we would like to think..actually fairly challenging.

Wade was a great get for Crean (but Crean couldn't have gotten him if we were in the Big East due to Wade being a partial qualifier - and as a result our only comjpetition for Wade was Bradley University.)

As for MU being turned down by Bennett, Anthony Grant and Keno Davis (and I think Sean Miller from Xavier)..that was fairly common knowledge at the time of the hiring process.  As I recall MU couldn't ven get those guys to interview.  MU is not considered a destination job..sadly to all of us.

[NersEllenson]

I hope I am 100% wrong on this but I am afraid it might be how Buzz recruits. Is he promising kids something in their living room that he cannot deliver? When Buzz was hired I was not in favor of the hire because he was not on any other school's short or long list to be hired. It almost seems to be hard to believe you can go from unemployed to back to back top shelf recruiting seasons.

Again, not trying to stir the pot. Been worried that too many guys were interested or signed with an unproven coach. Not many schools like MU lose a coach of Crean's level and then go out and improve on the recruiting. Hope my fears are incorrect.

Can you clarify if you have watched Reggie's Revealed You Tube Video where he flat out says the reason he chose MU over other schools was because Buzz promised him nothing (unlike other coaches), and told him he'd have to work to get his time..be tough enough to get PT.  That can end your concern about what Buzz is promising in kids living rooms.

Buzz was an assistant under Tom Crean. He wasn't unemployed.  Buzz has busted his ass for 14 years as an assistant all over the place, JUCO's, Texas A&M, Colorado State..he has tons of contacts..he's very well respected in the basketball community..to suggest that because Buzz has landed back to back top shelf recruiting classes - something wrong is going on..is just wrong.  Crean hired Buzz becuase he was known as a  GREAT recruiter.  Lastly, you may want to re-evaluate how good of coach Tom Crean really is - he's having a hell of a time at Indiana...granted TC did do well at MU with Wade and the Big 3..but I wouldn't exactly refer to "a coach of Crean's level" as necessarily being a good thing.

[El Duderino]

Hey now, you're using my material...I threw up the bat signal over a year ago to show how this all works.  LOL.

For the record, I hardly "love Crean" and certainly don't hate Buzz.  I just marvel at the incredible inconsistencies people have in treating coaches of MU here.  I think we finally came to the truth this weekend as people admitted WHY, for the first time, they act the way they do.

Sorry, i'm not a regular here so if i plagiarized your bat signal reference, i apologize. 

As for the rest of your post, i obviously don't know you personally and thus any true feelings you may have on Crean/Buzz. That said, in my time reading this forum, it's been very clear that the vast vast majority of any posts i read of yours involving Crean have a pro-Crean slant to them which tries to paint him in a more positive light. On the flip side, the vast majority of posts of yours that i read which are about Buzz directly or about a more general view of the program under Buzz have a much different slant compared to Crean. The posts almost always have a negative slant or tone to them, pointing out the negative side of of a topic instead of a more neutral or positive side of the issue.

Basically it reminds me a lot of debate i've read involving the Packers GM Ted Thompson. Those that like him a lot will way more often than not post with a glass half full slant and those who dislike Ted usually take the glass half empty slant. In reading you on here, it's pretty clear to me that if an issue involves Crean, in the vast majority of cases you'll try looking for and posting a take that shines Crean in a positive light. If a topic involves Buzz though, you'll almost always choose to comment in away that makes him or the program under him look bad or trending in the wrong direction. Completely polar opposite tones or slants to your posts in most cases depending if you're commenting on Buzz or Crean, i can't believe that you'd honestly think otherwise.

If say 20 random people who've never been on this forum were asked to read your posts and formulate an opinion, my guess is that all or nearly all the 20 people would come to the same conclusion that i have given how obvious it is. I will say though that there certainly are others on here who are just as nonobjective, only in the reverse by almost always looking to defend Buzz while loving to bash Crean.

[Mutaman]

That's it Ners--if you cannot argue the facts-start the name calling. A typical communist liberal tactic.

Wow! What food for thought. You really made me see the light. I will never call W a moron again.

[madtownwarrior]

removed - don't want to keep the chico's argument going...

[goldeneagle91114]

I want to start off by throwing out the disclaimer that this is my first time posting, so please be easy on my first few posts…

Anyway as for Reggie Smith leaving the program I agree with a lot of you who said it’s not as bad as it seems right now. As many others have pointed out there could be many reasons for his departure (academics, playing time – I think he is averaging around 10, please let me know if that’s not right, and/or family pressure.) Also this provides us with another scholarship to offer 1: an incoming freshman, 2: a transfer or 3: a Juco All American. I think that Buzz is a great coach and I believe he is putting together a lot of the right pieces to build a strong program.

However the one concern that I have is the negative publicity that this brings around the program, especially considering it is becoming a reoccurring theme. While I understand that building a sweet 16 caliber team takes time, I am getting sick of seeing only negative things about MU on espn and in national news. So far our losses to Duke, Gonzaga, UW and the Reggie Smith departure are the topics that are discussed on ESPN. The team needs to get a quality win to not only improve their tournament hopes but also improve the image that is being conveyed by this years team. (Now we still have a very positive basketball image based on our history, I am simply referring to this year.) If i learned anything in the 4 years i spent in Johnson Hall it was image is everything an right now ours isn't to good,

Go ahead, feel free to tear the post apart!

[reinko]

The only disagreement is that image is not everything.  For example, you tell the average college b-ball fan that MU brings in multiple JUCO's every year.  The image most aberage fans would be a negative one, but we know the JUCO's MU have brought in are great guys both on and off the court.

[Lennys Tap]

I want to start off by throwing out the disclaimer that this is my first time posting, so please be easy on my first few posts…

 If i learned anything in the 4 years i spent in Johnson Hall it was image is everything an right now ours isn't to good,

Mostly a solid first post, but I really hope "image is everything" wasn't really on your list of the important things you learned at MU. Unfortunately that concept is all too prevalent around here, but everytime I see it (especially when it's followed by a slogan like Cura Personalis) it makes me squirm.